22 Negative hunts in a Row, A Constructive Look at the Future of Entropia, Loot, Fun and Growth

There are a few platitudes I wish to enter into this weirding.

Having a Socialist explain about Capitalism is like a prostitute explaining virginity.

Bitching because the hole you're digging isn't deep enough, and you still hold a shovel, is moronic.

Deciding you should trust someone with your money, after you caught them stealing candy, is moronic.

For every action, there is an opposite, and equal, reaction. It's also know as "karma".

For those of you who DON'T have a plan for your EU future:
A goal without a plan is just a wish.
A man who does not plan long ahead will find trouble at his door.
Every minute you spend in planning saves 10 minutes in execution; this gives you a 1,000 percent return on energy!
Someone’s sitting in the shade today because someone planted a tree a long time ago.”
Good fortune is what happens when opportunity meets with planning.

If you want to be a success, do what the successful do, not what your out-of-work, lazy, slob of a best friend does.

In other words, all you self-absorbed, self-important, arrogant, foolish failures should beg to be taught by those who have been successful in this game. You know who they are and so do they.

There is dumb, and then there is stupid. Stop it.
 
strawman argument....

That's at least the second time you've used that phrase in this thread, even though you obviously don't know what it means.
 
That's at least the second time you've used that phrase in this thread, even though you obviously don't know what it means.

I do know what it means, but you obviously have to look it up...
 
strawman argument....



The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

Person 1 asserts proposition X.
Person 2 argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.
This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the opposing position.

For example:

Quoting an opponent's words out of context—i.e., choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[

Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then denying that person's arguments—thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.

Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
Exaggerating (sometimes grossly exaggerating) an opponent's argument, then attacking this exaggerated version.
 
The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

Person 1 asserts proposition X.
Person 2 argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.
This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the opposing position.

Nobody said players would quit, because of 90-95%. What has been said is that players may quit because they run into returns way lower than that, eventually even for a long period... which makes it a strawman argument...
 
offtop: I can actually think about viable game concept with 100%+ return rate while skill TT being that extra. Rewards in this system are not measured by TT return itself but by rarity of result given.
Like imagine one crafter is trying to craft something like augmented weapon cells. Unskilled crafter will have all 100% residue while skilled crafter can craft liike 70% residue+30% augmented weapon cells with 1% extra damage and try to sell that for 101% MU.
 
offtop: I can actually think about viable game concept with 100%+ return rate while skill TT being that extra. Rewards in this system are not measured by TT return itself but by rarity of result given.
Like imagine one crafter is trying to craft something like augmented weapon cells. Unskilled crafter will have all 100% residue while skilled crafter can craft liike 70% residue+30% augmented weapon cells with 1% extra damage and try to sell that for 101% MU.

yeah, been thinking about something similiar as well.. always give 100% return per kill/drop/craft.

globals/hofs/ATH animation coming from killing special mobs, hitting rare ressources, crafting rare items.

P.S.: before Messi or so starts yelling here, this comment isn't demanding, it's just exchanging ideas ^^
 
I think everyone needs to stop and think for a moment, i mean really think. Those that want 100% TT return, its not going to magically change things for you. MA are not just going to throw money at you and allow you to magically start being rich or make a living in this game. They will find a way to take that money they would lose from you...whether they give you 100% TT return but make you have to pay $10 for a gun that has a tt value of $1 or they will not include healing (or insert other tool/survival aspect here) in those TT cost. They could change it so that mobs hit you everytime and the only way to heal is to purchase a special healing device that has xxx amount of uses and can only be purchased through them. List goes on.

Stop trying to come up with changes to the fundamentals of how this game works, and instead focus on how you play the game. Otherwise go play a different game, because this game is not like other MMO's...and its been around a lot longer than most other MMO's.

Sick of all the BS whining in the threads already by the same damn people.
 
and? If 100.000-300.000 new players join and everyone depos 200-400$ over the first 3 years, that's a plus of 20-120 million$ in MAs account ^^

Since i play EU (13y) I get the feeling, that MA dont want more players. I tell you why.
1. a lot more players would need a lot more employes
2. It needs more and faster server and maybe bigger worlds (more dev work and server cost)
3. If it get a mainstream game, a lot more countries maybe investigate the game about casino game.
4. Ma have a working nice money factory, why risking big, if it run well that way and no need to hire a lot employes.
5. They lost the love to make EU big.
6. They just don't want to get big.

There must be a reason, why they don't focus to get bigger, otherwise we would see more action.

How ever, the main problem is fun. Is always loosing fun? The more fun we will have, the more it cost ped's to get that fun. A lot player play this game to get fun, and they stop play very fast, if there is no fun.

It realy needs more gameplay fun, and also cheap things to get that fun. Kill 1 000 000 noob mobs is not much funny. Risk the underpants at big mobs is also not everyones task. But i stongly think, the main problem is the always get bad loot feeling. Why i should log in, if i got 10 runs with minus payback, doing a 11. run with same result? Again and again.... no wonder, that a lot stop to play. Noone like to be a always looser.

It needs to have some hope to get a funny run! 10 x making minus about 60-70% payback per run don't increase the hoping, at least not if you get a looser feeling.

Don't get me again wrong, this is not whining! This is the reason why a lot player stop to play EU, and why a lot newbies only play a few days, and then stop after first depo, if they only lost everything very fast.

EU has lost a lot of cheap end free funny things over the years. Fashion is near death!. Rings are empty. No more nice and funny parties all over EU. No more TP runs, exploring new stuff with friends etc. I think all the old players know of what i be discussing.

Free to play (EU is calling this game like this) means also to have some stuff to play for free. What can we do here for free?
Sweating is one (much boring) search fruits and stones (much boring)
walk around and exploring the world (first time it is fun, after some days it is boring too)
Find friends and chat (less activity, since less ppl play and there are no parties where you can meet new friends)
scam (some try that)
streetselling (is died too, since MU of near everything is down)

Now just a question. Would you play a such game, where the play to free fun is like this, and you be new to it?
For more you need to pay more as for every other game.

I strongly think we need more free or even cheap fun, to get more players, and hold older players in game activ.

Ok, all that is just my opinion, and please don't call it again as whining. It is just what i think about all this.
 
Since i play EU (13y) I get the feeling, that MA dont want more players.

I have the impression too.
Maybe they do really have the attidute get as much cash as possible and once it's no longer generating profits they simply shut it down... which would be a shame, because this game has quite some potential...

It needs to have some hope to get a funny run! 10 x making minus about 60-70% payback per run don't increase the hoping, at least not if you get a looser feeling.

Don't get me again wrong, this is not whining! This is the reason why a lot player stop to play EU, and why a lot newbies only play a few days, and then stop after first depo, if they only lost everything very fast.

yeah, and one day, there will be no new players feeding new peds into the economy, then the old players won't get profits anymore.. and guess what happens then, messi will be the first to withdraw all his money and abandon the sinking ship ^^
 
yhasnvyj.jpg


78ish% TT-return...pretty sure i've cracked the 50 bad runs* in a row mark now... it seems to be better to just stay away from the game, there won't be anything good coming out of it anyway....

*click-size per run 150-500 clicks, except on this simple 2 conductor one ofc.
 
Last edited:
i wont read the wall of text , i like it simple , how long were those runs ?
 
yhasnvyj.jpg


78ish% TT-return...pretty sure i've cracked the 50 bad runs* in a row mark now... it seems to be better to just stay away from the game, there won't be anything good coming out of it anyway....

*click-size per run 150-500 clicks, except on this simple 2 conductor one ofc.

I am a hunter main profession. I craft sometimes when MU would be better than the loot I currently have. I would never in my life, once, think of clicking under 1500 conductors/springs in a go. 89? are you kidding me?

Want me to make a video of me shooting 89 tide claws and losing 1100 ped and whining?
 
I am a hunter main profession. I craft sometimes when MU would be better than the loot I currently have. I would never in my life, once, think of clicking under 1500 conductors/springs in a go. 89? are you kidding me?

Want me to make a video of me shooting 89 tide claws and losing 1100 ped and whining?

l2r, l2m.... 50 runs times 150-500 clicks each is how much?
it doesn't matter if doing 89 click or 1000 click runs... the result is usually the same, 80ish% return...
 
Last edited:
l2r, l2m.... 50 runs times 150-500 clicks each is how much?
it doesn't matter if doing 89 click or 1000 click runs... the result is usually the same, 80ish% return...

You should do those runs then and post the results for our comparison, in fact, post anything useful ever
 
You should do those runs then and post the results for our comparison, in fact, post anything useful ever

what for? MA can just check my log and see that the vast majority of runs is just terrible...
a ratio good run:bad run of 1:1 would be somewhat okay, but something like 1:50 or even 1:80 is just terrible design...

btw, i had 2 multis during that 89 click run, yet it wasn't even enough to get above 80% return... MA, please fix this shit...
 
l2r, l2m.... 50 runs times 150-500 clicks each is how much?
it doesn't matter if doing 89 click or 1000 click runs... the result is usually the same, 80ish% return...

Larger sample sizes are better, your results should be closer to the mean.

Central Limit Theorem:

A simple example of this is that if one flips a coin many times the probability of getting a given number of heads in a series of flips will approach a normal curve, with mean equal to half the total number of flips in each series. (In the limit of an infinite number of flips, it will equal a normal curve.)

Flip a coin 20 times, you might get 8 heads 12 tails or 40% tails versus 60% heads.

Flip the same coin a million times, you'll get closer to 50% heads/tails but still have variance, albeit lower than the previous example.
 
Larger sample sizes are better, your results should be closer to the mean.

Central Limit Theorem:



Flip a coin 20 times, you might get 8 heads 12 tails or 40% tails versus 60% heads.

Flip the same coin a million times, you'll get closer to 50% heads/tails but still have variance, albeit lower than the previous example.

I know that. However, currently it's more like 90% return for 8-12 month, then 5-15k hof to actually make the jump to 95%... That's the way it played out for me.

why not make it 93% return, by giving a few 500-1500 hofs, for 24-48 month, then have the 5-15k to actually make the jump to 95%...

Uber hof being mandatory for good return just sucks...
 
Last edited:
Interesting read, I especially like the comment from JODA that mentioned that for bigger turnovers it would be sensible to lower costs rather than a straight 95% return.


That makes sense to me, I ran L for over a decade and I don't believe I was spending what I am now. Even doing a ton of hunting with L chips, I'm sure my costs were lower.

I can honestly say that the FEN gear is amazing for skill gain and turnover (I'm adding pro levels at an incredible speed, I like it), but my costs are going up because of the level of turnover. The only thing keeping me going is wondering if more skill will lower costs. Now Messi mentioned this level 85- 90 barrier, do you think that's still valid?

I'm 46 looter that the moment, and that seriously concerns me. In my mind the system does need to throw out equalisers hofs more often. Call them cuddle hofs based on depos, I don't care how its done under the hood.... but I don't think I can keep it up if it doesn't happen.

Messi sort of suggests he threw a tons of money at the game to start with. In my mind I'm sitting on 15 years of support skill, so skilling a new main prof (clubs), should not be as painful as starting from zero.

Even hunting all the mobs with 'MU', only scratches the surface of the MU required to survive. I'm currently in the mindset of hunt as hard as possible and see what comes out. Although it is still concerning that the 'active' player base is quite small. It takes some getting used to, when trying to get the best from top end tools, and understanding expectations.

I have no regrets I didn't buy an excellent unlimited weapon sooner though. I've not spent millions of ped on gear, even if I've spent a ton of RL cash just playing the game over the years. Swings and roundabouts really.

We need more opportunities to loot something to sell. I do think that MA are taking some good steps to make it more affordable, although they're not quite there yet.

Anyway GL out there.

Rick
 
What makes me mad in this discussion is that everyone wants to know what new players are investing here. All this nonsense, new players do that when you get 95% or less, new players do this if you do 5 or 10 rounds go badly. Everyone thinks the know best what new players are doing.

The truth is, every player is different and everyone plays in his own way. It would be important to mention here that nobody should turn off his brain when playing the game, after all, this is about real money. Also the question why did you pay so much? Why not? If I like a game I support the game and pay gladly!

I'm a new player, I have barely not spent that much time in the EU like other people that are here. But the time I'm here ( 6 months), I have paid 43,377.30 PED + the money for 400 Crystal Palace Shares + a littlebit more. I play as I would like, I'm independent, I do not have to ask other players for money, I use the weapons I like and I still have the whole PEDS!

I have finish the 10K Caraboks, The 10K Hornets, the 10K Punys on Calypso, 10K Shoggots on Monria and a lot of more mobs. I listen Audiobooks and hunt the mobs i can, i dont risk to much dont need make the Event Mobs that have higher risk or be a Miner becouse somebody get the biggest ATH with mining and I am well entertained.

I now other new player that have invest a lot in Boxes, starting equipment from the Shop or other things and the have a lot of fun and grow slow up.

When dealing with the game and reading the necessary information or listen to the Players that play longer, it's easy to make the right things. But at the end ist just a game. Its just something that helps me to chill after a long day in office, thats all.

Just play the game and relax, no one has to make the mega money here or become super rich, MA does not promise this, be part of the universe and have fun.
 
What makes me mad in this discussion is that everyone wants to know what new players are investing here.

The truth is, every player is different and everyone plays in his own way.Just play the game and relax, no one has to make the mega money here or become super rich, MA does not promise this, be part of the universe and have fun.

I agree everyone plays thier own game, there is no right answers to what makes you happy, although there's tons of amazing experiences many young players have never experienced. Make a 12 man team and go hunt some hogglo youns at Honiri (think I spelt that right), that's a big shock after just hunting little mobs....just to try it. The sheer size of them with their giant teeth will make you say wow!!! this is playing EU. Or going with your soc as a first visit to CP, you might die a lot, but you'll never forget such experiences. It makes a massive change to just hunting little mobs, and opens players eyes to whats out there in EU.

After many years here it does become more than just a game; especially after all the experiences I've personally had and memories I've built up over the years. People you've met, teams you've hunted in, I have friends here I've known for a good 12+ years, even met many in RL as well. So after some years it develops into a lifestyle, that is different to an addiction, EU becomes part of you.

I tell myself 'it's just a game' when I sometimes get frustrated with it, although I love the place really.

There's no right answers to success either, I've had years I've hunted very hard, and others I've tried new things at lower costs. I spent 2 years on taming, I don't regret it, 3 years on mindforce..and hit that really hard.

At some point you will step up a gear within EU, then maybe a couple of years later when you're really immersered into it step up again. None of it is bad choices though, you're building skills all the time. I've got nearly 400K skills, and haven't even unlocked kill strike, my highest level is 78 (and it's been 78 for about 3 years). Maybe it was mistake switching professions so many times...smiles, but like you say we play our own game. We are ready..... when we are peronally ready to take the next big step.

The big questions come when you try to push your ava to it's limits, then money does become an issue, and then knowledge is important. Sometimes we all need to learn the hard lessons, RL is like that too.

As you say enjoy it, that's the main thing. I've never been one to tell players they're doing it wrong, although there're many ways to lose big in EU, and many ways with the right choices to reduce costs considerably.

The game is different now, however if I'd chosen to be a miner back in 2006 I probably would've made a fortune. Still it was great fun at swamp camp hunting berys and combios back in the day,....grins. Hunting argos by the 10's of thousands at old twin peaks....ohhh the memories.

Rick
 
All I could say is that my allover return is at 50% since 2 years. Doesn't matter what I do, what ped cycle, day, night, hunt, craft, mine, with or without armor, with closed or open eyes.

Before I had my 5-6 globals in a 500ped run on Hadraada, Nusul, Argonauts... Today? 500ped run with not a single global. Also I looted weapons in the past and now - hothing.

The mort fun was Arkadia Moon 2 weeks ago: 200 drops without a single hit (I don't mean global!)... No joke...

What I do now: Depo less and hunt newbiemobs... Less money for MA till they change what they messed up.
 
Someone told me years ago:

1) Log in

2) Do 5 clicks in crafting
3) Shoot 5 mobs
4) Drop 5 probes

5) Log out

If you hit somthing big in this time be happy, if not, don't hope the long run will fix it...
 
Someone told me years ago:

1) Log in

2) Do 5 clicks in crafting
3) Shoot 5 mobs
4) Drop 5 probes

5) Log out

If you hit somthing big in this time be happy, if not, don't hope the long run will fix it...

You forgot to ask him a key question : Who are you in this game? do you win or do you lose?
You don't have to tell me who the guy was I already know he is a sore loser.
 
You forgot to ask him a key question : Who are you in this game? do you win or do you lose?
You don't have to tell me who the guy was I already know he is a sore loser.

Nah. The key question should be. Did it work?

There was a retired player that once got a 40k trox by logging in once every 3 months for just 5 big Atrox at Ashi each login. The game is littered with some wonderful stories and strategies.

Logging in 24/7, is an interesting prospective of 'winning' on lifes journey Messi. Who are any of us in this game? Just players Messi that trade cash for digital titles and some entertainment. :D

Rick
 
Nah. The key question should be. Did it work?

There was a retired player that once got a 40k trox by logging in once every 3 months for just 5 big Atrox at Ashi each login. The game is littered with some wonderful stories and strategies.

Logging in 24/7, is an interesting prospective of 'winning' on lifes journey Messi. Who are any of us in this game? Just players Messi that trade cash for digital titles and some entertainment. :D

Rick

Dunno if it worked for the person who told me this. It's just an advice that theoretically would make sense.

Two days ago I went to prototype drones:

1. Kill 5ped global
2. Kill 5ped silent

For the notes, if you do 10ped on Protdrones, you just get tons of 0,7pec and 0,70pec Opallo & Azzur weapons, not somthin interesting

I went to Exarosaurs:

1. Kill around 10ped (6ped weapon incl.)

For the notes, if you do 10ped on Exarosaurs, you just get tons of 0,3-0,5 pec loot.

In the past, 1st click on Exp1 BP gave me 200ped global, also I got a 500+ ped in Mining with 1st drop.

It's just a "funky" advice to protect your pedcard, no one must or maybe should follow.

EU works in both directions: From 10 ped to 5k ped with luck, but also from 5k ped to null havin' a completely dry period.
 
Back
Top