Suggestion: Creating more demand for sweat, while making it of use to players - Octane fuel

Dibbler

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After returning to the game after 3 or so years i notice that sweat value is now barely above a ped per k, which makes life harder for the newer players to the game. I started to think of a way that demand could be increased while players obtain some form of benefit and ofc that it wouldn't hurt MA's bottoom line.

What i put forward is a new type of fuel, lets call it Octane Oil, which is created from : 1 Refined oil + 1 sweat = Octane fuel

Use same graphic as refined oil but maybe with red tinted can.

Vehicles with this idea would be able to use either type but only 1 type at a time in fuel tank

Proposed benefits of Octane fuel - A speed boost when using octane fuel of maybe 10-15%, along with/or better fuel eficiency of 10-15%

Of course MA would lose some income from fuel decay however with increased demand for sweat would perhaps aid in player retention. Players would benefit from getting places slightly faster, and perhaps some increased miles per gallon/litre.

Thought, reactions? :)

Dibbler
 
For sweat there are more possibilities than there ever were, there are plenty of blueprints that need sweat, it's part of the galactica mission, you need shitloads of it to spawn the hussk, you need 500 sweat daily for an ARC badge on cyrene.
The reason why sweat is so low, is simply that the new players sell it low.
There are plenty of possibilities for new players, besides sweat. You get a lot of freebies on whichever planet you start on and with a good mentor taking you places you can do all the introduction mission for a maximum of freebies. 5 planets offer free drops of oil, beer and nawa, and there's even a moon that gives out 2 ped of free ammo every day.
 
its a nice idea....(now its like the 5 th time i heard about it) .....and ye ...this one would make sense ingame...+ even upgradeable like...the more sweat per oil..the more speed....

but we also might then have a similar situation in the next year -> more demand of sweat -> higher prices-> more ppl come and sweat -> price goes down -> same situation as from start

there were quite some add ones for sweat usage ingame since last years....portable terminals//the new sweat bp from cyrene.....//hussk is coming more often now maybe ? //welding wire usage increased bec of fort wall repairs// AG gorgon wave etc ....

--> maybe also a point to consider is the mindset of ppl in this regard.....they have like 100 ´s free games on the internet and assume/expect/want that also here in Entropia...ppl should learn that there are differencies .......here its good to see it as a sub-game where you pay for entertainment....(where YOU can decide on how it will be )
 
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1,000,000 Sweat To Get 1% Crafting Boost Rating On All Crafting With QR100.0 Blueprint Should Able To Increase The Sweat Price To Over 5p/K LOL !
 
I'm not sure exactly what we gain by rewarding freeloaders... ?

Sweating is okay for a few months, allows you to get acquainted with things and affords you some time to make some crucial observations about the economy and how things 'flow' in the game.

But I have a bit of a problem with people coming around here telling us or MA that they need to give them more free money...

Entropia is a game about making money, not a socialist experiment.
 
I'm not sure exactly what we gain by rewarding freeloaders... ?

Sweating is okay for a few months, allows you to get acquainted with things and affords you some time to make some crucial observations about the economy and how things 'flow' in the game.

But I have a bit of a problem with people coming around here telling us or MA that they need to give them more free money...

Entropia is a game about making money, not a socialist experiment.

Nobody would force you to buy it :D

I have been around in EU at least as long as you (probably a couple years earlier ;) )

It's just a suggestion not the start of a communism revolution :D

Finally time isn't free :)

I remember there being a cap to sweating, perhaps that would be a good idea to return. My concern is about new player retention and possible ways they can contribute to the economy via time while also giving some kind of benefit to players.

There have been many good things introduced by MA for new players i admit, and yes the sheer amount of sweat produced per day in game is probably mind boggling. Looking at new ways for possible uses though i can't see an issue with, people can always gather their own if buying from others is an afront to their personal beliefs.

I didn't expect the spanish inquisition.
 
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The whole sweat system should be abolished and every sweater deleted.
I have never seen a more abominable waste of time the ultimately adds nothing to a game.
Chinese gold farmers make more in games in a time where in game economies didn’t exist, (stone of jordan anyone? :) )
 
The whole sweat system should be abolished and every sweater deleted.
I have never seen a more abominable waste of time the ultimately adds nothing to a game.
Chinese gold farmers make more in games in a time where in game economies didn’t exist, (stone of jordan anyone? :) )

Have you considered playing a game that would cause you less distress ?

I am for any idea that strengthens the markets for ingame resources.
A fuel that increases speed of ships in space , would be very interesting i think.
One drawback to faster land vehicles , would be the current rendering issues we already face.
I have a car that travels at 75 km/hr and it does not enjoy current server configurations.
 
Have you considered playing a game that would cause you less distress ?

I am for any idea that strengthens the markets for ingame resources.
A fuel that increases speed of ships in space , would be very interesting i think.
One drawback to faster land vehicles , would be the current rendering issues we already face.
I have a car that travels at 75 km/hr and it does not enjoy current server configurations.

Thanks for the reply and input.

Perhaps use only in space would be a win/win for MA and players for a speed buff fuel.

Players save maybe 5 mins travel time, MA get 5 mins more planet activity (decay/turnover) when they arrive.

Indeed faster veicles on planet could create render issues, maybe fuel effic on planet, or make space use only. Only MA i guess can be sure if would create issues or not.

Timewarpman1

The whole sweat system should be abolished and every sweater deleted.
I have never seen a more abominable waste of time the ultimately adds nothing to a game.
Chinese gold farmers make more in games in a time where in game economies didn’t exist, (stone of jordan anyone? :) )


Also ty for all input, even the more C-anon views :). However if MA deleted any ava that has collected 1 sweat or more i feel we would have an empty game lol, but thanks for the giggles.
 
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Its just me but my head explode when I hear that new players should sweat or when there is an equal between new players and sweat.
New player in my book means you just interact with the game for the first time not that 10 hours of your live worth 1$.My grandfather was an uneducated person living in a village working the field with tools.He used to work for others by the day and doing that he used to get paid usually 200-250 peds /day + 2 meals a day (that was 20 years ago so if you add inflation and other shit he might have make even more in a supposedly 3rd world country)
So are you telling me that in 2020 with endless opportunities you can't do better than my grandfather and you are still sweating? Oh wait, this is a real cash game I forgot to add that
Lets not forget Entropia leads when it comes to most expensive items sold in a game and its not sweat.

 
Hi Messi :)

To be clear i don't really need to sell sweat, i solo sweat trox or whatever really to skill bio (adj resto chip) and to craft weld wire, make ME or whatever.

As far as i am concerned we could re-introduce the sweat cap (maybe before your time).

Just if sweat allowed me to quad to another planet 5 mins faster i would use it, as i think many others would.

Took a 3 year break from game, so atm depo and builld bankroll hunt low, lets face it bankroll management is big part of the game.

I also spend a lot of time around new players at the moment to gauge how well game is doing, is there going to be people in another 3 years to buy my stuff etc. Which while i build ped balance up I have time to do, while deciding is there a future here and get heavily invested again or should i just concentrate on other stuff. Like couple night ago there was a new guy stranded at an outpost, i went took him to a tp bought him a chopper and chipped him some oil, found him a good mentor..... any player staying is good for the game. Where you think your profits come from, how you know that sweater isn't the next Messi?

I met Dalas at old Atlas Island North ... he was a sweater back then and now mod fap owner and used to heal for him with his old imp fap (no colat needed as we known each other ingame since near the start). Another guy years back i met sweating and ended up a hangar ower (pre space) and i got cost flights to cp/cnd for a year or so for helping him when he started out..... I met Manic (used to be in warrants) sweating when i first started and that guy was such an inspiration and as an uber was basically doing what i am doing atm Gauging future of EU (not sure if he still around but was a credit to game and crazy uber back then 2005-6 maybe)

I always viewed sweat as something nobody wants to do, that is of use to make players lives easier (tp chip for example). I think many would pay for, or sweat their own to save 5 mins or so travel time in space.

It makes me quite sad that the old community within EU has came to wallet waving lol... the future of EU depends on player retention, longer they here more they get involved, longer they are involved more likely they will invest in the game.

But maybe i am wrong and EU is now just a wallet waving playground.


All the best and of course i respect all views

Dibbler/Norbert
 
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Its just me but my head explode when I hear that new players should sweat or when there is an equal between new players and sweat.
New player in my book means you just interact with the game for the first time not that 10 hours of your live worth 1$.My grandfather was an uneducated person living in a village working the field with tools.He used to work for others by the day and doing that he used to get paid usually 200-250 peds /day + 2 meals a day (that was 20 years ago so if you add inflation and other shit he might have make even more in a supposedly 3rd world country)
So are you telling me that in 2020 with endless opportunities you can't do better than my grandfather and you are still sweating? Oh wait, this is a real cash game I forgot to add that
Lets not forget Entropia leads when it comes to most expensive items sold in a game and its not sweat.


You see, even the most idolized player with too much money on hand thinks sweat should be abolished.

Please Ma just kill everyone that sweats... in game of course. :p
 
There's another thing you're forgetting. Sweat has virtually no TT value, only markup, when you click BPs that require sweat, the value of that sweat is not included in your TT returns, it's just gone. So when sweat becomes more expensive, crafting with it gets less attractive, which will result in lower demand. Some crafts require a lot of sweat, and I think crafters are the ones who consume most of the sweat on the market (could be wrong about this one tho).

As for those who spend all their time sweating, well it's their time, they can do with it whatever they want. If they decide that 10 hours of their lives are worth 1 USD, and that sweating is fun, it's up to them I guess.
 
So are you telling me that in 2020 with endless opportunities you can't do better than my grandfather and you are still sweating?

major difference.
Your grandfather had only to compete with his idiotic or lazy neighbour.
Today people have to compete with very efficient machines from all around the world.

So you're comparing apples with melons here... especially during a pandemic where the economy is shrinking anyway.
 
There's another thing you're forgetting. Sweat has virtually no TT value, only markup, when you click BPs that require sweat, the value of that sweat is not included in your TT returns, it's just gone. So when sweat becomes more expensive, crafting with it gets less attractive, which will result in lower demand. Some crafts require a lot of sweat, and I think crafters are the ones who consume most of the sweat on the market (could be wrong about this one tho).

As for those who spend all their time sweating, well it's their time, they can do with it whatever they want. If they decide that 10 hours of their lives are worth 1 USD, and that sweating is fun, it's up to them I guess.


The thing is to negate the mark up, you failed to say that people can in fact collect it themselves.

Perhaps we should remove sweat as a trade-able resource :) , that way the anger about paying someone would be removed (taking things to extremes ofc).

Yes sweating is a near pointless exercise, and as i said earlier i mostly sweat for myself :).

Anyway suggestion is up, i will leave thread to run whichever way it wanders.... back to the DOW, FTSE. :coffee:
 
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The thing is to negate the mark up, you failed to say that people can in fact collect it themselves.

Perhaps we should remove sweat as a trade-able resource :) , that way the anger about paying someone would be removed (taking things to extremes ofc).

Yes sweating is a near pointless exercise, and as i said earlier i mostly sweat for myself :).

Anyway suggestion is up, i will leave thread to run whichever way it wanders.... back to the DOW, FTSE. :coffee:

I've bought over 200k sweat to craft elysia these past few weeks, are you saying that I should spend my free time after work sweating?? Do you even imagine how much time it takes to gather such a large amount of sweat?? I think your suggestion about making sweat non-tradable is oblivious.
 
I've bought over 200k sweat to craft elysia these past few weeks, are you saying that I should spend my free time after work sweating?? Do you even imagine how much time it takes to gather such a large amount of sweat?? I think your suggestion about making sweat non-tradable is oblivious.

Ofc it was sarcasm more to reflect the all sweaters be deleted etc :) . (not your comment btw)

But ty for answering that paradoxical view with the counter argument.

"There's another thing you're forgetting. Sweat has virtually no TT value, only markup, when you click BPs that require sweat, the value of that sweat is not included in your TT returns, it's just gone. So when sweat becomes more expensive, crafting with it gets less attractive, which will result in lower demand."

"Do you even imagine how much time it takes to gather such a large amount of sweat??"



You have no idea how much i know :), I was basically trying to show the broken logic in answers in thread. Sweaters are leechers etc,..... then perhaps stop trade of it... but that would take me ages .. lol

Don't take to heart, as was not aimed at you particularly but at the strange logic i see :) . I totally understand the system i been around over hmmm oh god hmm, since 2005 or 2006 maybe.

Anyway enough, not my problem. :)

Dibbler out
 
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I actually like to sweat. It's a very relaxing activity. Why are so many so negative about sweaters? It's more active than some forms of fishing...

Like the poster above said. Look at the consequences of removing sweaters/making sweat untradable would have:
- A lot less WW, so a lot less VSE skilling, repairing a vehicle would become a lot more costly
- A lot of crafts would become much more costly/impossible to do
- spawning some mobs would become very expensive (1 HUSSSK every 10 years?)

Why do so many consider sweaters leechers while I see sweaters like the ones contributing a lot to the game by making it possible for others to do the thins they want
 
I actually like to sweat. It's a very relaxing activity. Why are so many so negative about sweaters? It's more active than some forms of fishing...

Like the poster above said. Look at the consequences of removing sweaters/making sweat untradable would have:
- A lot less WW, so a lot less VSE skilling, repairing a vehicle would become a lot more costly
- A lot of crafts would become much more costly/impossible to do
- spawning some mobs would become very expensive (1 HUSSSK every 10 years?)

Why do so many consider sweaters leechers while I see sweaters like the ones contributing a lot to the game by making it possible for others to do the thins they want

Obviously, if they would make this move, and make sweat non tradeable, they would have to do 2 more things:
increase sweat per succes use from 1-4 to 100-400ish range.
reduce tt
 
Obviously, if they would make this move, and make sweat non tradeable, they would have to do 2 more things:
increase sweat per succes use from 1-4 to 100-400ish range.
reduce tt

That's exactly what I mean. Sweat (or something like it) is needed in a F2P game.

The changes you mention would lower the amount of time it takes to gatcher sweat by a factor of 100, but would it make people that just want to hunt or mine start sweating, or would it make sweaters also crafters to make tradable items? Also this is under the assumption MA would not make a third change. To increase the sweat needed by bp's/spawns, etc.
 
[Moderated: removed quote and reply to deleted post]

You're simply asking for no more HUSSK, no more WW, No more Ruxxnet code, etc.
 
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Finally time isn't free :)
First and foremost, it is abundant. There isn't a resource on earth as worthless due to oversupply as people's time. A problem i.m.o. is the promotion of sweating as a source of income at all. There is tradition in it and it may have been different in the beginning, but those times are long gone. Now it is abysmally stupid advice and even deceptive when they don't mention how it compares to RL alternatives, since this is RCE after all. But then, this is also so basic that you don't know how to help anyone who doesn't know this himself...

Edit: This was not meant to criticize your idea above. I actually like it very much. There could be yet another, even higher grade "nitro" (maybe octane+nova?). I just think the argument of supporting sweaters earn money is not so helpful. Any increase in demand will be filled while they continue desperately to undercut each other.
 
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You're simply asking for no more HUSSK, no more WW, No more Ruxxnet code, etc.

Just because those require sweat it doesn't mean developer can't change the recipe in order to spawn/craft them.
Sweat should exist ingame but shouldn't be incentivized to do more/better.The game needs to stay free to play but the focus should be on how do we make more people stay and deposit and that can be done through education and power of example.
 
another alternative... to fix the price of sweat... would just be to cap it again as it was in the beginning. You are over x skill level/experience nope, cannot do it. That'd be a bad solution, but it could be a solution. Since folks can chip in and out, etc. make a counter on it similar to codex but without the repeats. Sweat x amount and you are done, mission complete.
 
another alternative... to fix the price of sweat... would just be to cap it again as it was in the beginning. You are over x skill level/experience nope, cannot do it. That'd be a bad solution, but it could be a solution. Since folks can chip in and out, etc. make a counter on it similar to codex but without the repeats. Sweat x amount and you are done, mission complete.


This also ecourages ppl to make alt- accounts.... imo just leave all as it is now...
 
Just because those require sweat it doesn't mean developer can't change the recipe in order to spawn/craft them.
Sweat should exist ingame but shouldn't be incentivized to do more/better.The game needs to stay free to play but the focus should be on how do we make more people stay and deposit and that can be done through education and power of example.

Of course, they can, but Timewarpman(to whom this reply was) just said " Please Ma just kill everyone that sweats... in-game of course. :p". It's not my task in a discussion to think of arguments the other party could have mentioned. So i won't. People that sweat are called leechers so often and stupid not thought through remarks are made so often and with such bad arguments, it's just depressing.

I fully agree that education and the power of example are the best ways to increase player retention,
 
Yeah, I have heard this idea over and over again. Now I have been playing for about 10 - 12 years nows. Sweat back when I started was about 2 ped per k or if you were lucky there was a buyer in the early days on RT who helped buying at 5 ped per k. Then we had players coming over from Caly to sell sweat and 100k of sweat. I remember going to caly and joining a sweat circle there. Loads of players had a stupid amount of sweat and they all said they holding on to it till the price goes up. Now 10 years later nearly every planet has bps for sweat and has implemented a use for sweat to spawn a massive shared mob. So even thou MA and PP have introduced more ways to use up a sweat the price has dropped down to 1 ped per k.

Another thing that noob sweaters dont consider when coming up with new uses for sweat. Is that you reliy on players like Messi to deposit more money to buy sweat. MA has tried over the years to reduce the cost of play, but supporting more sweaters will not improve game.
 
Why is that people that don't sweat , want to make the decision to stop us that do.

I happen to enjoy sweating , and I do not suggest that we eliminate other professions within the game.

Where is Rodney King when we need him.
 
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