How to get 90%+ TT?

[morey]

Would be really cool if someone would start a guide, an intro, to how waved system works

You see that's the thing. Adv guides like this you won't find. Knowing too much = less for the rest of us. I believe other active miners feel the same.

Rite of passage is to explore and get that info in detail

 

[Evey]

You see that's the thing. Adv guides like this you won't find. Knowing too much = less for the rest of us. I believe other active miners feel the same.

Rite of passage is to explore and get that info in detail

I 100% agree but I strongly believe MA could come up with a better system that is fair to everyone, giving advantage o both big volume miners and also give new players a better chance, increasing the retention right where it matters the most, on the players ingame for <1 year that feel the road to end game is close to impossible.
Also, the current system is, in my opinion, in a grey area and heavily exploitable and it's going on for many many years now...

Maybe an open discussion about this could trigger some change.

 

[morey]

I 100% agree but I strongly believe MA could come up with a better system that is fair to everyone, giving advantage o both big volume miners and also give new players a better chance, increasing the retention right where it matters the most, on the players ingame for <1 year that feel the road to end game is close to impossible.
Also, the current system is, in my opinion, in a grey area and heavily exploitable and it's going on for many many years now...

Maybe an open discussion about this could trigger some change.

Might be better for another thread Evy.

Also if you havent asked in the AMA, can ask there.

 

[AckerZ]

Would be really cool if someone would start a guide, an intro, to how waved system works

Yeah I'd really appreciate that, think I've got it mostly down but would be good to get insight from much more experienced players

 

[Alukat123]

The whole Wave system is just terrible.
my waves: pre noon (being at work) , pre midnight (have to sleep before work next day)...

so what is MA thinking there? play only on weekends?

 

[kingofaces]

Would be really cool if someone would start a guide, an intro, to how waved system works

I think that (and the subject of this thread) isn't really guide or "intro" territory. That's more advanced mechanics, which is why some of us here are basically saying test things out for yourself if it really interests you (general everyone you, not you you).

Guides are better for fundamentals of mining like how amps work, depth, broad location data like LBML shows, etc. That's information any miner should know, and it doesn't really cause competition for limited resources. As you get to more advanced details, those are things that either can cause competition for high returns (i.e., what does MA do if everyone got near 99%TT) or can be things that took some investment to find out. That's in part why my testing threads that I do publicly post are not to expensive to test, but some other areas I have tested will not be made public. That pursuit of the unknown is actually in part what makes the game fun for me.

 

[eyeshark]

Post Removed

 

[MrFatBoy]

And no, this does not need to be changed. Variables like this makes mining interesting, it isn't just go out and drop random.

i had a friend drop a probe right on a claim i found and he got a global. This was like 10 years ago and was pretty cool

 

[Timewarpman1]

As someone who mined professionally...with big air quotes....for years...

You don’t. Ever!
Good luck trying to break even on pyrite.

 

[Deleted member 57599]

As someone who mined professionally...with big air quotes....for years...

You don’t. Ever!
Good luck trying to break even on pyrite.

Have your sister/brother/dog (dogs are players now. 1 is an Official Balancing Manager..,...) create a new account and get a 450k mining ATH (no other hofs prior) then disappear with the loot

 

[Timewarpman1]

Have your sister/brother/dog (dogs are players now. 1 is an Official Balancing Manager..,...) create a new account and get a 450k mining ATH (no other hofs prior) then disappear with the loot

7 years and some people will never let that go...

 

[Alina]

As someone who mined professionally...with big air quotes....for years...

You don’t. Ever!
Good luck trying to break even on pyrite.

Well let me be first to tell you how wrong are you

It is possible to get over 90% mining ? Yes

As Morey was saying mining an overmined area really affects tt return. This is my TT in and tt out at ashi in august 125935>103605 (82,26%). Normal return in overminded areas since 2017 for me.

One thing weird about the Caly mining i saw they don't allow you to recover the tt return. At Ashi i finished 60k Pyrite/Caldo/Belk with highest find ~2k (crazy to me).

 

[Timewarpman1]

Well let me be first to tell you how wrong are you

It is possible to get over 90% mining ? Yes

As Morey was saying mining an overmined area really affects tt return. This is my TT in and tt out at ashi in august 125935>103605 (82,26%). Normal return in overminded areas since 2017 for me.

One thing weird about the Caly mining i saw they don't allow you to recover the tt return. At Ashi i finished 60k Pyrite/Caldo/Belk with highest find ~2k (crazy to me).

And i call your bs anecdotal and exceptional, not the prevailing rule.

 

[Alina]

10 years+ " As someone who mined professionally" and still knows nothing , thats why i love this game

peace im out

 

[Tree-doctor]

I’m returning as well and what I noticed is that mining didn’t really changed since. I mean, geography as changed, Types of ressources are in the average same spot. I’m not a professor of any kind, and not here to give advices, nor tips.

Some fealings or observations:

# It seems that sometimes mining zones need to be triggered, cocked before claims start to pop. Ofc by droping bombs... see that as cost of participation.

# You will find, on some zones, a vast variety of ressources but not at the same time. Call that wave or watever I don’t care. What you are finding is directely linked to crafting and/or AH, imho. This is not pure randomness.

# Generaly tt return seems the same with or without Amp. Amps blow the ground faster and if there is a so called « multiplier » you might hit big... you might.

# Trying to decifer how mining work is a good thing but, imagine You are close to decifer it, be sure MA will adapt so nerf the thing. So, sharing things in public seems super altruist but arm the profession imho.

 

[kingofaces]

I’m not a professor of any kind, and not here to give advices, nor tips.

# It seems that sometimes mining zones need to be triggered, cocked before claims start to pop. Ofc by droping bombs... see that as cost of participation.

Being a professor, I'll support with all your points except this one. There is variation in hit rates that changes over time. I haven't seen any evidence in my data collection that previous mining actually affects future hit rates or TT.

However, it's really easy to think you're seeing such a trend when you see hit rates suddenly change as part of that random selection of however MA has it set up. Those of us who get for 95%+ TT mining don't let too much info out there, but one thing we repeatedly are fine mentioning is that continuing to mine an area during poor return runs is often what pushes your TT % down. Knowing how to avoid that is arguably more important than trying to actively target high hit rate/return runs.

 

[Timewarpman1]

10 years+ " As someone who mined professionally" and still knows nothing , thats why i love this game

peace im out

Being an ass is not a valid argument.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

10 years+ " As someone who mined professionally" and still knows nothing , thats why i love this game

peace im out

I have been mining professionally for over 10 years and still see myself as a noob.

I have been recently been mining on NI, came over to help a friend with his crafting. I have really enjoyed it. Exploring a new area and mapping out new areas. It's a lot of different layout to RT with a lot more mixed mats and not so simplified. I still come across areas that HR is very low, even though it has been unmined. RT is lot smaller and with so much of it taxed the main spots for alt, gazz, and now belk is very over mined, but sometimes you can get a good hit rate. I was mining cocktails in another part of RT the other day when i finished my run and started digging up claims. I also noticed Noxie had a couple claims near mine.

So yeah you got love this game as its far more complicated then people think. It makes me laugth when I hear players in chat think they have all secreats.

 

[Alukat123]

RT is lot smaller and with so much of it taxed the main spots for alt, gazz, and now belk is very over mined, but sometimes you can get a good hit rate.

just the other day i went 360 PED out / 205 PED in in the "overmined" alt/belkar area , while the area, which was barely mined by others, was ~175 PED out / 225 PED in

also Genesis was mining in hell and globaling quite a bit, so i went into the exact dome Genesis just globaled, i globaled and had good HR..

pretty sure nobody mines these days in the narc/alt/folk/jazz/blue, because a lot of mobs have been placed there, yet my hitrate and returns are usually pretty bad there.

just as a few examples

still not sure if that overmined area thing is actually a thing..
and from design pov, it wouldn't even make sense to implement something like that, because the player can't see how much mining is going on in the area.

So yeah you got love this game as its far more complicated then people think.

yeah i guess.

Edit: only thing i could confirm in terms of mining so far, is "respawn" timer for rarer ressources, like azur pearls.

 

[MikeH]

still not sure if that overmined area thing is actually a thing..

To test overmined thing take a finder 700m depth and hit ashi on caly

 

[Alukat123]

To test overmined thing take a finder 700m depth and hit ashi on caly

can you borrow me one the next time i am on caly?

 

[bigdaddy trim]

just the other day i went 360 PED out / 205 PED in in the "overmined" alt/belkar area , while the area, which was barely mined by others, was ~175 PED out / 225 PED in

also Genesis was mining in hell and globaling quite a bit, so i went into the exact dome Genesis just globaled, i globaled and had good HR..

pretty sure nobody mines these days in the narc/alt/folk/jazz/blue, because a lot of mobs have been placed there, yet my hitrate and returns are usually pretty bad there.

just as a few examples

still not sure if that overmined area thing is actually a thing..
and from design pov, it wouldn't even make sense to implement something like that, because the player can't see how much mining is going on in the area.



yeah i guess.

Edit: only thing i could confirm in terms of mining so far, is "respawn" timer for rarer ressources, like azur pearls.

Indoor mining is a lot different from planetside mining. Depth is less important and respawn is quicker. It's just as risky for low to higher player.

Now it does make you wonder do other players paying ped into area help also. So a place where no one mines could this result in a bad hit rate?

Btw azur pearls are not a rare resource.

 

[Alukat123]

Depth is less important and respawn is quicker.

hmmm, my impression was that the respawn timer outdoor is quicker than indoors.

Now it does make you wonder do other players paying ped into area help also. So a place where no one mines could this result in a bad hit rate?

well, if an area can overmined leading to the bad hit, then areas where barely anyone mines should be very well filled, leading to good hit rate?

Btw azur pearls are not a rare resource.

the point was the timer untill it can be found again.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

hmmm, my impression was that the respawn timer outdoor is quicker than indoors.

Rule of thumb it's about 4 hours planetside, half that indoors or even less.

well, if an area can overmined leading to the bad hit, then areas where barely anyone mines should be very well filled, leading to good hit rate?

Well lets say if no one has put no ped in that area, then it wont pay out. Its like a theory Juicy once said about pvp on RT. If there no one hunting or killing there then no pyrite. Of course this is all just theory talk and not to be taken literally.

 

[Alukat123]

Rule of thumb it's about 4 hours planetside, half that indoors or even less.

i had planet side as low as 30 minutes and indoors about an hour. However, that was with f-101 & unamped, so may vary depending on finder & amp.

 

[bigdaddy trim]

What you mat

i had planet side as low as 30 minutes and indoors about an hour. However, that was with f-101 & unamped, so may vary depending on finder & amp.

What mats are you talking about?

When I am talking about respawn. I am not taling about common stuff. For exsample if i mine for terradite or ing, i cant go back 30 mins later. it will be just lyst or zinc.

 

[Alukat123]

What mats are you talking about?

anything because the thread is about getting 90+% TT-return and we were talking about "overmined" areas ^^ So little miscommunication there.

 

[TheRock]

I have been mining professionally for over 10 years and still see myself as a noob.

I have been recently been mining on NI, came over to help a friend with his crafting. I have really enjoyed it. Exploring a new area and mapping out new areas. It's a lot of different layout to RT with a lot more mixed mats and not so simplified. I still come across areas that HR is very low, even though it has been unmined. RT is lot smaller and with so much of it taxed the main spots for alt, gazz, and now belk is very over mined, but sometimes you can get a good hit rate. I was mining cocktails in another part of RT the other day when i finished my run and started digging up claims. I also noticed Noxie had a couple claims near mine.

So yeah you got love this game as its far more complicated then people think. It makes me laugth when I hear players in chat think they have all secreats.

Reminds me a lot of the early days of mining with my mentor.
We were using those F101 - F106 back then where each of those depths could filter some % of the unwanted ore. Example a deepe ore with crap MU could only be found with F104, while F103 would not be hittable with. With long data, u could see the average MU % go much higher. This was so interesting to know how to filter wanted/unwanted materials and is still the core thing for a miner. I think this info were or possibly now too is a bit "rare" for many. Still applies too till today. + we got the waves which were not obvios back then.
now go profit

 

[Deepa2]

Have started mining 15 years ago, then had a 7 years break, and returned year ago.
End of a short introduction.

Since april 2019 I have around 90% tt return (my turnover around 100-150k a month), which is a bit odd, if to compare with old good times. It seems previous version 10 years ago, was a bit more random and fair. Now I can spend anything with any amps and get 90% return. If I fell to 85% (due to extensive peds wasting on FOma) MA gives me tower just enough to bring back statistics.

I read all pages and there are some opinions I strongly disagree.

1) Hit Rate some of you bragging is a conditional random. I believe it has nothing to do with your style, premined location and your skills/tools.

- firstly It depends on how much of location resources Balancer (a daemon running on server) have available for the game at current time to anyone by request. it's not very personal at this stage (except depth checking). If it gave away today, lets say 5k of putty already (from all locations/planets!!!), you will not find it with any depth/tool/skills/luck. This is what you call "effect of premined location" more below.

- secondly (personal stage) it depends on how much MA think it owes you. Did you had a situation you woke up, turn on EU drop one probe and get tower? It's not a luck. It's how much MA think it owes you depending on your previous spends.
OK, Tower is a very strong example.
Lets say you started to mine and dropped first probe (amped 2 peds). Ma knows what you've spent, and randomly gives you claim of 1.8 peds, or gives you 1 and postpones 0.8, or postpones whole 1.8 ped. It's random until some tactical threshold. You drop next - same checking happens. And again.

When you reach some minus threshold (if you do!), which can be dynamic/random but should not be too big ( As MA dont want you to close the game and never return ) - you get glob/hof/ATH. Especially if server's Balancer think that resource you asking (by location and your tools/skills set) can be given to the game. Basically every probe drop is a request you do. Sometimes balancer have available 50k of caldo, and you have big multipler (amp) - you get ATH (in case MA owes you what much during last years cuts).

You will not get high HR if MA does not owes you anything. What's why initial HR is always low, and after you spend some you see that MA is urgently trying to give you all you spent minus 10% tax. That's why HR in the middle/end session is always high. Especially last probes from inventory. That's why we often get a big kaboom on last probe we drop. Ma scares that it owes you 300 ped from this mining session, and it's last probe, and you may never return.

This is why your theories about what to do with a low HR (to change location or continue) have no sense. You will get your 90% anyway either you continue or change loc. The only difference is what set of resources you get. As locations have different sets.

2) Effect of premined location. As I said your mining return have nothing to do with some one just run over this location.
My Statement: Balancer on server fulfil requests (dropped probes) due to it's own data. If 10 miners dag up 5k putty already today (or hell knows what cycles it uses, i'd stick to a day) on all locations/planets (i believe it's global) you will not get any/many claims with it. You can use any depths/tools you just wont find it. It's just a part of balancing (rare) ore. MA don't want you people dag up tonnes of it and crash the economy. On Cali - they even switched to waves to limit rares give aways.

This explains why you can drop a probe on top of someones claim and still get some resources. If balancer think it can give away 1k more putty/lyst/caldo today (and your depth/skills/tools set is satisfy) - you will get it no matter how hard prebombed this location.


To summ up. You will not get more than 90% tt return in current system (on long run). MA tracks every ped you spent in years. Otherwise they would go bankrupt long ago.
I know some people claim they get 100%+ return on long run (months), but I believe it's just a mistaken calculations or some bug related to avatar.

PS if you believe you have low return on a long run, and MA owes you ATH, and your calculations are correct - eventually you'll get it. May take years but once you'll appear in a location and time where/when balancer have available 50k-100k of lyst - you get it. This happens all the time. If crafters have burned 50k of lyst this night for example.

Sorry English is not my first It also too late, maybe write some more later.

 

[Sirhc]

This is why your theories about what to do with a low HR (to change location or continue) have no sense. You will get your 90% anyway either you continue or change loc. The only difference is what set of resources you get. As locations have different sets.

2) Effect of premined location. As I said your mining return have nothing to do with some one just run over this location.
My Statement: Balancer on server fulfil requests (dropped probes) due to it's own data. If 10 miners dag up 5k putty already today (or hell knows what cycles it uses, i'd stick to a day) on all locations/planets (i believe it's global) you will not get any/many claims with it. You can use any depths/tools you just wont find it. It's just a part of balancing (rare) ore. MA don't want you people dag up tonnes of it and crash the economy. On Cali - they even switched to waves to limit rares give aways.

Great insight on your entire post and it resonates with what I have experienced since my return as well. Just a couple of things to note, the different resource sets help you bridge the MU gap. So if you are getting 90% return with mostly lyst and oil and change to another location with better MU resources it can push you over the 100% return mark on a more regular basis. Playing EU with 100% TT returns in mind isn't really tenable these days for casual players, in my opinion. I've really had to take a step back and be thoughtful about the overall big picture of the game in general. There is interplay between the professions albeit somewhat less with EP crafting which has hurt markups across the board as people sink PEDs hoping for a windfall loot instead of crafting necessary items and building a PED card, but to each their own.

FOMA is a PED sink and indoor mining in general carries more risk plus it seems like a lot of bots carpet bomb the domes frequently which seems to have some effect on resource spawns. That being said your mining return can be negatively affected if an area has been mined well by other players. Like you said when the finite higher mark up resource for a certain time limit is exhausted in an area it will default to common ores/enmatters. Common ores/enmatters may not be a bad thing if you are trying to build up your skills. Mulitiple hits of common resources in a well known location with better resources is a telltale sign someone else has been through that zone and mined it well or the system is pulling back in some way and its a personal choice to continue or move on ( I typically move on). I've even flipped the switch on myself once when I went to an area that historically carried decent MU resources and found a lot of them and then thinking I would give the area another once over because my HR was great I started getting common resources even though my HR remained decent. It was a very noticeable event and it makes sense you are only going to find so much of X before the system defaults to Y.

Really rare resources have always been tricky and I think they are more so these days. There is more tightly controlled balance over them and equipment choice, timing, and skill (in-game and RL) might have more of an effect than in the past.

In the beginning it took me a very very long time to get my first tower but mining helped offset my dismal hunting returns and vice versa when mining was bad. Either way MU always played a huge roll in keeping my avatar running without having to deposit.