High eff weapons

[binfordw]

Questions for the number-crunching bean counters,


I don't track returns at all. When I run out of peds to buy ammo or L gear, I deposit. Will I actually notice a difference if I switch from AR matrix L guns to a high efficiency UL- 80%+?


Currently cycling 5k peds ammo a day +-, and its pretty hard on the ped card. Been looking for an UL that's suitable, and curious if paying absolutely out the nose for a high eff one would be worthwhile.

 

[Sub-Zero]

You will notice your peds last longer due to higher eff and due to not wasting so much ped in MU.

 

[binfordw]

Ok- so MU aside, would I notice a ped difference just by eff alone?

 

[Twiffo]

Each 1% more efficiency will give you 0,07% more tt. Armatrix is about 65% eff so with 80% eff you will get 1,05% more tt. With 5k peds a day that will give you 52,5 ped more loot per day. That will be 19k ped per year more tt on average. Someone please correct me if I made a mistake here.

 

[Darth Revan]

At the current prices of the weapons, i would say no.

 

[warmdogg]

With high damage per pec you will also notice the %of your loots that are shrapnel will reduce also, generally this is good but some oils are undesirable so you might want to add attachments to increase the cost to kill.

 

[M Rufen Power]

Questions for the number-crunching bean counters,

I don't track returns at all. When I run out of peds to buy ammo or L gear, I deposit. Will I actually notice a difference if I switch from AR matrix L guns to a high-efficiency UL- 80%+?

Currently cycling 5k peds ammo a day +-, and it's pretty hard on the ped card. Been looking for a UL suitable and curious if paying absolutely out the nose for a high eff one would be worthwhile.

Here's the formula I use to determine TT returns (91% Base) to get back from efficiency. =SUM(Efficiency Rating/0.1428571429).
The higher the efficiency, the higher the TT returns will be, so are they worth it? Absolutely, if you have hardly any looter skills.
Check out my thread; page 8 has a lot of information on calculating efficiencies in combination with the looter professions.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

Here's the formula I use to determine TT returns (91% Base) to get back from efficiency. =SUM(Efficiency Rating/0.1428571429).
The higher the efficiency, the higher the TT returns will be, so are they worth it? Absolutely, if you have hardly any looter skills.
Check out my thread; page 8 has a lot of information on calculating efficiencies in combination with the looter professions.

In regards to the 7% that gets touted around, are you suggesting that the efficiency gain AND the looter gain are added together to achieve this? So if you have a 60ish efficiency, which is most guns, once you hit 40 looter you’ve maxed the TT returns? Assuming 100 is the maximum value

 

[Deemer]

The "dynamic" in the game has a much bigger impact than this 0.5%, for which you would pay a high price. Many people use the standard 60-70% because they know when not to hunt, so I think such topics are dupe. Do not believe other people's calculations, do them yourself.

I would not buy something at a high price, specially before next VU. Definitely the prices are much higher than normal at the moment and in the probable scenario they will fall rather than rise more... but who can know.

It's difficult for me to determine your level because your account is old. In case you have a Looter level of more than 60, such weapons may be appropriate. But definitely before this level the price will not be worth it if you do not plan to use the weapon for at least two years.

Maybe FEN / Mayhem type 70+ would be appropriate, but hardly anyone has the illusion that they will use 50-60 dps in the next 2 years if they plan to make a big deposit. At the moment, the prices of smaller weapons are even more paradoxical.

 

[Captain Jack]

If you're not tracking your returns then you probably won't notice a 1% difference. As previously mentioned, though, you would quickly notice no longer hemorrhaging PED through markup out.

 

[binfordw]

In case you have a Looter level of more than 60, such weapons may be appropriate. But definitely before this level the price will not be worth it if you do not plan to use the weapon for at least two years.

That sounds backwards? With a high looter prof, the need for a high eff weapon should be less necessary? Not understanding the 2 years either, unless prices will plummet similar to everything else I've ever purchased. If I buy a rock for 40k, and sell for 40k+ 3 months later, I had a free rock for 3 months- i.e, worth it.

If you're not tracking your returns then you probably won't notice a 1% difference. As previously mentioned, though, you would quickly notice no longer hemorrhaging PED through markup out.

That's what its looking like to me. No point in large amounts of ped for an item that doesn't offer something I can notice. Thanks

 

[Deemer]

Definelly i don't like Armatrix of their MU. You can't be sure that if you buy something at this price it will be the same, in case the VU should be very soon... its all i said.

 

[M Rufen Power]

In regards to the 7% that gets touted around, are you suggesting that the efficiency gain AND the looter gain are added together to achieve this? So if you have a 60ish efficiency, which is most guns, once you hit 40 looter you’ve maxed the TT returns? Assuming 100 is the maximum value

Yes I am indeed suggesting that, because as far as I can tell the base return for new players is around 90-91% which constitutes increased skill gains for a lower avg TT return. I think of it from the developers perspective, majority of hunters are mid level so making hunters reach lv40-60 looter seems practical to have 91+7% means once you reach a mid lvl looter standing, you’re more than likely to avg 98% long term, no proof just an educated guess.

 

[warmdogg]

Yes I am indeed suggesting that, because as far as I can tell the base return for new players is around 90-91% which constitutes increased skill gains for a lower avg TT return. I think of it from the developers perspective, majority of hunters are mid level so making hunters reach lv40-60 looter seems practical to have 91+7% means once you reach a mid lvl looter standing, you’re more than likely to avg 98% long term, no proof just an educated guess.

EDIT: Misread your statement, so lower looter skills = High efficiency recommended, Higher looter skills = you can get away with less

 

[sachi.mk2]

Yes I am indeed suggesting that, because as far as I can tell the base return for new players is around 90-91% which constitutes increased skill gains for a lower avg TT return. I think of it from the developers perspective, majority of hunters are mid level so making hunters reach lv40-60 looter seems practical to have 91+7% means once you reach a mid lvl looter standing, you’re more than likely to avg 98% long term, no proof just an educated guess.

It's a good hypothesis.

 

[M Rufen Power]

I respect a lot of the work that you do.

Why, thank you, I am glad you appreciate it like everyone else.

Edited; misunderstanding resolved lol.

 

[M Rufen Power]

It's an interesting hypothesis and one that has crossed my mind. Like yourself, I have no evidence to suggest one way or the other if what you suggest is true. As most people know, explaining how loot works are from October 2017 and before looter professions were introduced. It's interesting; Mindark never told us the impact of looter professions on TT returns. It speculates that the impact of weapons' efficiency on TT returns may have been nerfed to accommodate the looter professions. Due to it being difficult to test such minor percentage changes in loot, hopefully, Mindark will provide us with an exact explanation of looter professions and whether its introduction changed how weapon efficiency worked.

Let me share something interesting about efficiency I have not shared, lol; this might interest a few nerds of Entropia, but here goes anyway. MA stated that efficiency couldn't go any higher than 7% on TT, with 100% being the max efficiency, but they said they were uncapped with looter skills.

With Loot 2:0 weapons no longer having a linear DPP/efficiency path, it gave MA the ability to give players a higher DPP weapon (exponentially reducing the cost to play) without interfering too much on how much loot could be extracted and at the same time avoiding most TT surplus liabilities.

An example is the Unique Sacrificial Dagger, 3.8 DPP but has an efficiency rating of 94%, translating to a 6.58% TT returned over the games base return rate. Interestingly, the DPP should make this weapon over 100% efficiency using the old linear method; what do I mean? Let me explain a little more.

Using the linear method, any in-game item with a base DPP of 3.62832 DPP would be 100% efficiency. Though there are equal or higher DPP's values than the one mentioned, the latest weapons have below 94% efficiency, means efficiency was already nerfed before looter professions, IMHO.

When the looter professions got introduced, MA used this mechanic to give people the urge to skill up because looter buff isn't capped, unlike efficiency, it can go 0.07% per level unlimited, so TT surplus is possible for the diehard players (Messi91) but takes place with Looter and not Efficiency.

 

[warmdogg]

At high level you can get away with shedding efficiency and opting for high DPP, such as LP-130

 

[SuperKanjo]

When the looter professions got introduced, MA used this mechanic to give people the urge to skill up because looter buff isn't capped, unlike efficiency, it can go 0.07% per level unlimited, so TT surplus is possible for the diehard players (Messi) but takes place using Looter and not Efficiency.

How you know? They have said that looter skill can impact return rate up to 7%.

 

[M Rufen Power]

How do you know? They have said that looter skill can impact return rate up to 7%.

Looter is not capped at 7% but gives 0.07% more loot per level.
Efficiency here is what I was referring to as being capped at 7%.

 

[SuperKanjo]

Looter is not capped at 7% but does give 0.07% more loot per level.

Again, where did you get that from? This is the opposite of MA statements about looter skills

 

[M Rufen Power]

Again, where did you get that from? This is the opposite of MA statements about looter skills.

It is within Evey's signature here > Looter Tests have a read, but what did MA say to make it the opposite of their statement?

 

[SuperKanjo]

It is within Evey's signature here > Looter Tests here a read, but what did MA say to make it the opposite of their statement?

Those test you quote have proven that every level contributes 0,07%, I don't disagree on that. But have you tested if it still goes up after lvl 100, because that is the statement you make?

And what MA said is that looter contributes up to 7%, see my post. I am not saying you are wrong, but asking how you can be so sure, how you tested?

 

[messi91]

And what MA said is that looter contributes up to 7%

There is no official comments on that.

 

[SuperKanjo]

There is no official comments on that.

Seems you are right, must have gotten confused by other members making this statement. Thanx!

Can you confirm it still has impact even after lvl 100?

It is within Evey's signature here > Looter Tests here a read, but what did MA say to make it the opposite of their statement?

As said above, i got confused, seems MA never made that statement.

 

[M Rufen Power]

It seems you are right, must have gotten confused by other members making this statement. Thanx!

MA has never made an official statement that 7% is the maximum, i.e. Level 100 Looter professions gives the maximum effect.

As said above, I got confused; it seems MA never made that statement.

Exactly, Looter boosts TT returns by 0.07% per level, there's no cap or maximum level, so logically it can go beyond level 100 compared to efficiency.

Can you confirm it still has an impact even after LVL 100?

I seriously doubt Messi91 would ever disclose that information, lol, but I wouldn't blame him personally; definitely more power to him. From a data pov, Messi91 is on 105.77% TT returned lol plus 3-4% from markup, so nearly 10% ROI lol, but hunts the biggest mobs in-game, which causes huge variances.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

It seems like this could be experimented with by setting up team hunts with shrapnel only mobs with peeps of varying looter professions. If the ped burn and weapon efficiency were exactly matched shouldn’t the only variable here then be looter?
having somebody over lvl 100 and somebody at 100 and compare the results?
Excuse my nativity if I am overlooking a flaw with this method.

 

[M Rufen Power]

It seems like this could be experimented with by setting up team hunts with shrapnel only mobs with peeps of varying looter professions. If the ped burn and weapon efficiency were exactly matched shouldn’t the only variable here then be looter?
having somebody over lvl 100 and somebody at 100 and compare the results?
Excuse my nativity if I am overlooking a flaw with this method.

This was already been tested below level 100 and as MindArk has not stated looter has a cap, it’s safe to say the benefit would continue past level 100. Yes once efficiency is the same the only contributing factor would be the Looter profession differences.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

This was already been tested below level 100 and as MindArk has not stated looter has a cap, it’s safe to say the benefit would continue past level 100. Yes once efficiency is the same the only contributing factor would be the Looter profession differences.

You obviously know more than me on this topic, I’m not saying you are wrong, but you seem to be making a huge assumption that looter is uncapped. The way you justify it is based on a lack of evidence to the contrary, not by using evidence that supports your claim. The old “god exists because I have no proof that he doesn’t” fallacy.
I love what you have done with your testing, you should continue to analyse data from players above lvl 100. Now that might be hard data to get, but I wouldn’t set a stance either way until we have evidence or an official statement from MA clarifying it.

Now assuming that you are correct, and you can skill looter up to a point where you can average par 100% TT returns, what’s going to happen when a larger and larger proportion of the player base gets there?
the players have skilled past the confines of MA’s business model and we will be plunged into Loot 3.0.

 

[M Rufen Power]

You obviously know more than me on this topic, I’m not saying you are wrong, but you seem to be making a huge assumption that looter is uncapped. The way you justify it is based on a lack of evidence to the contrary, not by using evidence that supports your claim. The old “god exists because I have no proof that he doesn’t” fallacy. I love what you have done with your testing, and you should continue to analyse data from players above LVL 100. Now that might be hard data to get, but I wouldn’t set a stance either way until we have evidence or an official statement from MA clarifying it.

Now assuming that you are correct and can skill looter up to a point where you can average par 100% TT returns. What will happen when a larger and larger proportion of the player base gets there? The players have skilled past the MA’s business model's confines, and we will be plunged into Loot 3.0.

I don't know any more than the next person on this. I never said I was right either. I get the case and point on getting actual data to verify assumptions. Still, at present, only 2 people above LVL 100 Animal Looter and I doubt they would happily spend their time to test this out; again, I could be wrong. To consistently get above 100%, TT returns at the base return, and you are looking at LVL 130. Most people will not reach this, but if most hunters achieved 100%+ returns, you better believe MA will introduce Loot 3:0, lol. That I do believe would happen with 100% certainty.