tier components

[tBANNA]

well....

after the absurd times when opal was rare so damn rare, now we face the impossibility to tier things cause the components are missing from most of the mobs ,

despite the fact wiki says some creatures/robots/mutants still drop them, those tier components are impossible to find in many cases

my point here is to add a suggestion to place tier comps in mayhem events, even if are set to rare, after grinding like mad everyone can collect few at the end of the event, and why i see this a good idea is because most of the players are stuck during the mayhem to grind or compete , which delay the tiering process even more

are 01-10 category, and each category can have his own tier components, any adjustment to the actual drop rate is something , and will be much appreciated

the huge amounts that are needed for most of the 2.0 items is not even near the amount anyone can grind for himself

i.e. tier 5 supposed to be found on Feffox, and if anyone is trying to loot them by himself will have to grind for years excluding Xmas mayhem 6 weeks, easter and halloween 3 weeks each, summer mayhem + migration and some IRl time, what remains is not enough to do that before u grow a grey beard

just my 2 pecs

 

[theProphet]

some tt-costs are insane already even before markup ... i'm not gonna tier such things, period.

 

[Elfie]

I have had the same issue trying to find enough components to tier items up. One suggestion the Devs might consider, is making them available at the terminal for their TT price plus a percentage fee higher than current market average. It is a win win. People can still TT theirs if they wish, or sell them on AH and make a profit, and those who need them but cannot find them can choose the immediate option to buy if they are desperate to tier an item up. One issue is that people only buy them when needed so there is a not a constant demand for supply, so its hit and miss for both seller whether anyone looking for that tier at that time, or for buyer whether anyone selling at that time. other option is just to do away with them from AH and make them al available at TT.

 

[kingofaces]

some tt-costs are insane already even before markup ... i'm not gonna tier such things, period.

At least TT costs (+1%) are returned now. That said, I just got my Improved Excavator ready for tier 3 only to find out the price: http://www.entropiawiki.com/Info.aspx?chart=Excavator&id=17

4k TT isn't bad at all since I'd just use up that up as UA. The jump in MU between tier 2 and tier 3 though is 600 to 6,000 ped, I definitely don't have plans to upgrade at that price (and it's nearly more MU than what I paid for it). I'd hate to see what tier 4-10 would cost, especially how it looks like TT scales up on this one each level.

 

[atomicstorm]

You want markup in this game or not.. scarcity is part of it.

 

[John B Knight]

tier comps are perfectly fine as they currently are imo - competitive top end hunters generating mu for the rest of the playerbase who can find profit outside of mayhems is a good thing. I like beingh able to sell a number of tier comp types for high mu to buy the one type im wanting to boost for next upgrade.
The difficulty and time of the upgrade process also adds additional value to upgraded weapons.

 

[wizz]

tier comps are perfectly fine as they currently are imo - competitive top end hunters generating mu for the rest of the playerbase who can find profit outside of mayhems is a good thing. I like beingh able to sell a number of tier comp types for high mu to buy the one type im wanting to boost for next upgrade.
The difficulty and time of the upgrade process also adds additional value to upgraded weapons.

This, plus the idea that tiering up stuff should be very special, and thus costly.
Why should it be cheap to tier up a item?
Shouldn't it be special?

If tiering was cheap and stuff easy to come by, tiered stuff would be worthless.

Besides, I dont mind to occasionally find a tier comp that I can sell for 800%

 

[kingofaces]

You want markup in this game or not.. scarcity is part of it.

The better balance would be for MA to ballpark what volume x MU would equal current returns on tier components for hunters and adjust that way. Right now, that equation sits in high MU and low volume with a lot of unmet demand. There’s a point where you could increase volume without drastically reducing MU (indirectly through supply since they don’t “technically” control MU) to the point it’s a net loss change for those items on the hunting side. That would basically be mid MU, mid volume, and the results of that type of equation are not linear either.

It’s a pretty standard thresholding / optimization problem that should be pretty standard fare for the balancing manager/team, but I won’t go down the rabbit hole aside from saying it wouldn’t be hard to tweak the drop ratios until they feel like they’ve hit a rough optimization point.

It’s almost straightforward enough a dog could do it. Tl;dr, instead of one component at 800%, I’d rather loot two at 450% for the same effort since the market isn’t close to saturated.

 

[atomicstorm]

The better balance would be for MA to ballpark what volume x MU would equal current returns on tier components for hunters and adjust that way. Right now, that equation sits in high MU and low volume with a lot of unmet demand. There’s a point where you could increase volume without drastically reducing MU (indirectly through supply since they don’t “technically” control MU) to the point it’s a net loss change for those items on the hunting side. That would basically be mid MU, mid volume, and the results of that type of equation are not linear either.

It’s a pretty standard thresholding / optimization problem that should be pretty standard fare for the balancing manager/team, but I won’t go down the rabbit hole aside from saying it wouldn’t be hard to tweak the drop ratios until they feel like they’ve hit a rough optimization point.

It’s almost straightforward enough a dog could do it.

Who is say they have not already done that? Seems to me this is the expected outcome.

Hunting needed more markup per time spent - they have been working on that.
Crafting needed some nerfs - they did that too.

No doubt, tiering isn't supposed to be easy. Going fast requires you to pay a premium.

I realize there's a bottleneck T8 and above. There's a pretty good reason for that and while they could open a little - the requests being made here in this thread and others is not for that purpose.

 

[Alukat123]

you got to kill the mobs during the tier component loot window and ofc, you need a good setting with high DPS (if mob has regen), 60+% efficiency and ofc low overkill... for higher tier components, maybe just team up with friends to get lower costs per kill and better loot composition...

you just need to adapt to loot 2.0.

 

[kingofaces]

Who is say they have not already done that? Seems to me this is the expected outcome.

Hunting needed more markup per time spent - they have been working on that.
Crafting needed some nerfs - they did that too.

It doesn’t seem that way since there is more demand to be taken advantage of (both for MA and fees from MU, and for hunters). The barrier to that is volume right now. On paper MU might seem high, but you need people actually willing to buy at that MU in significant amounts.

Right now, the high MU is likely reducing total MU returns a hunter could earn because many are simply not going to bother tiering up items at current prices. That’s a common problem on the business end of things where increasing your prices reduces your overall market value because you don’t make enough sales at the higher price to beat what you’d make at a lower cost to a larger market. Obviously if you go too low in price and supply, you’ve saturated the market and are losing that way too (which is how tier components used to be), but that all goes back to this not being a simple linear equation where higher MU% = more profit only holds true for a small portion of the curve.

Tl;dr, dial the drop rate up just a bit where everyone profits by expanding the market rather than saturating the market and crashing things. MA swung the pendulum a decent amount in the last change away from the latter, and it would only taking tweaking rather than drastic change to take advantage of demand.

 

[John B Knight]

Easy comparison, why should doubling a weapons dps or alternately improving its dpp be cheaper then buying the weapon twice at its current market value ?
As long as going from T1 to T10 is cheaper then buying the T0 version of the weapon i see no issue at all for the tiering process - and even if it would cost twice as much there can be a case made for this.
We used to have people complaining that weapons wouldnt tick and mindark wouldnt let them upgrade - now we all can tick the weapons and its our choice if we spent that much - which is how it should be in an RCE. We are making these prices based on what we perceive to be reasonable. So cant really turn around and say the mu's are unreasonable if people are willing to pay them.

 

[kingofaces]

I have had the same issue trying to find enough components to tier items up. One suggestion the Devs might consider, is making them available at the terminal for their TT price plus a percentage fee higher than current market average. It is a win win. People can still TT theirs if they wish, or sell them on AH and make a profit, and those who need them but cannot find them can choose the immediate option to buy if they are desperate to tier an item up. One issue is that people only buy them when needed so there is a not a constant demand for supply, so its hit and miss for both seller whether anyone looking for that tier at that time, or for buyer whether anyone selling at that time. other option is just to do away with them from AH and make them al available at TT.

The problem here would be unlimited supply that would end up dropping the average MU, and I would expect that to drop back to near 100% levels in time with this. It would be too easy for a brand new system like this to be a negative feedback loop and swing the pendulum to the other extreme. MA is just at the point they really need to keep tweaking drop rates a bit, but I would go with the OP over this idea.

 

[Xen]

I think a balance could be found between how it is now and flooding the market so there is no markup. When it would take years to grind it yourself the drop rate is too low.

 

[John B Knight]

I think a balance could be found between how it is now and flooding the market so there is no markup. When it would take years to grind it yourself the drop rate is too low.

Not everyone tries to grind the ESI's for chipping in/out skills themselfs either, something to rare to do it alone quickly usually is a good incentive to get market value going - the more market value we have on loot the better we are off in the long run.

 

[Alukat123]

I think a balance could be found between how it is now and flooding the market so there is no markup. When it would take years to grind it yourself the drop rate is too low.

Or it stays the way it is and people just start to adapt to loot 2.0 and start hunting in teams... Seen so many youtubers, solo hunting mobs way above their DPS (causes too much armor decay and health regen ticks) and then complain that they mostly loot shrapnel...

The meta in loot 2.0 for higher mobs is team hunting. Just adapt.

 

[Evey]

I feel your pain but I'm afraid they just changed the system where they switched the cost from high TT + MU to only higher MU which goes to other players + returning the TT and also moving some of the resources from being strictly dropped to crafting or puny mobs where resellers could manipulate a lot, to space and planet hunting.
This system is better and a lot cheaper to tier. Imagine you wouldn't have gotten the tt of the mats back... most loot 2.0 weapons have a total cost of ~70-80k PED which you get back in shrapnel.

All tier comps mobs are very accessible, you don't need to team up for them; if you do need to team up for marcimex (t6), plongu (t7), levi (t8) etc, then a t6+ weapon is not for you atm.

And it's made on purpose to be extremely difficult to farm your own mats because just like with the FEN tokens, you need to collective effort in order to have access to high level equipment/tier. Even if I had to pay the price, this makes sense to me... but I definatly feel your pain

 

[Alukat123]

if you do need to team up for marcimex (t6), plongu (t7), levi (t8) etc, then a t6+ weapon is not for you atm.

why stick to low MU stuff solo playing when you can go for higher MU stuff in a team xD
We farmed Fen Token with a team of 10 on rt at malcruentor Worked out very fine. Would haven been silly to not use that option for easy profit

 

[ermik]

So if i understand this right the hunters who always whine about no mu in loot is whining about too high mu on looted stuff they feel they need to improve the weapons they use for the hunting.... You cant make shit like this up.

 

[Evey]

So if i understand this right the hunters who always whine about no mu in loot is whining about too high mu on looted stuff they feel they need to improve the weapons they use for the hunting.... You cant make shit like this up.

It's not about the MU. It's about the availability of the comps. If you want to tier something today from 7 to 8, you must wait a month to collect all the comps, farming mobs AND the auction at the same time.
You guys need to understand that a gun like this, lp100 mod, need 2-3k ped tt tier comps on 7 - 10 and when these are 700%+, even if you buy most of all, you will want to farm some yourslef. Looting 10-20 ped tt a day with top equipment is harsh.

Alukat you're offtopic. And clueless.

 

[ermik]

It's not about the MU. It's about the availability of the comps. If you want to tier something today from 7 to 8, you must wait a month to collect all the comps, farming mobs AND the auction at the same time.
You guys need to understand that a gun like this, lp100 mod, need 2-3k ped tt tier comps on 7 - 10 and when these are 700%+, even if you buy most of all, you will want to farm some yourslef. Looting 10-20 ped tt a day with top equipment is harsh.

Alukat you're offtopic. And clueless.

But its connected, if comps are rare the mu will rise. The mu is good for the hunters. The fact that ppl want to tier their weapons is a choice they do. But ofcourse it needs to be a balance to keep mu decently high while maintaining interest from the ppl tiering their guns.

 

[Alukat123]

It's not about the MU. It's about the availability of the comps. If you want to tier something today from 7 to 8, you must wait a month to collect all the comps, farming mobs AND the auction at the same time.
You guys need to understand that a gun like this, lp100 mod, need 2-3k ped tt tier comps on 7 - 10 and when these are 700%+, even if you buy most of all, you will want to farm some yourslef. Looting 10-20 ped tt a day with top equipment is harsh.

So you just want a handout for top tier gear.... because once MA ups the droprate, people will come and claim that tier 9 comp droprate is too low and needs to be increased... and then the same for tier 10 happens...

first it was opal droprate, now it's higher tier comps, next will be ruby droprate and then higher tier comp droprate....

Top gear, when it's supposed to be something rare and hard to get, won't be rare or special anymore if it gets handed out to everyone within 2-3 months...

Alukat you're offtopic.

no, it's not... if you want to loot more a day, then just hunt in a team. Adapt to the game.

-----

Is there even a month, where hunters don't ask for something new or the game being made easier? and year were MA doesn't cater to hunters?

 

[John B Knight]

To be fair by now i guess most players who spent 50-100k+ on a top loot 2.0 weapon know to expect that a second time to getting to tier 10 and to collect tier comps for future stages in advance - it takes millions of peds cycled to progress through tier 7-10 which does take several months anyhow.
Players who spent that much on endgame gear just have to plan in advance.
The total tier cost at current mu values for top loot 2.0 weapons (after tt refunds) is less then 2% of the peds needed to be cycled through them to tier them in the first place - which is very 'workable' over time.

 

[Evey]

if you want to loot more a day, then just hunt in a team. Adapt to the game.

It doesn't work like that. A team with 10 times my dps will loot probably 10% extra tier comps. Things skew a bit with high dps and cycles... team hunting is great but has 0 impact here and also stupid strategy, for this issue.

And you missed my point completely. I'm not complaining about anything. I am very close to t10 with my pistol and I have most mats ready, for a 14k tt tier cost for tier 10 alone. It was very hard to collect all mats, but doable, if you make use of all resources (no, not team hunting!), including the auction, but is was also easy because all the funds came from profit made elsewhere in the game. You cannot grind yourself (or with a team!) the comps for tiering a loot 2.0 weapon. You probably can but it's a very poor decision because you loose a lot of momentum and profit hunting bad mobs just for a few tier comps a day. I hope this is now clear for you, Alukat.

 

[Alukat123]

And you missed my point completly. I'm not complaining about anything. I am very close to t10 with my pistol and I have most mats ready, for a 14k tt tier cost for tier 10 anone. It was very hard to collect all mats, but doable, if you make use of all resources (no, not team hunting!), including the auction, but is was also easy because all the funds came from profit made elsewhere in the game. You cannot grind yourself (or with a team!) the comps for tiering a loot 2.0 weapon. You probably can but it's a very poor decision because you loose a lot of momentum and profit hunting bad mobs just for a few tier comps a day. I hope this is now clear for you, Alukat.

that you're whining about having to spend a lot of time to get it all by yourself, was very clear for me from the beginning...

So you got your mats almost ready, so an increase in droprate isn't necessary...

Tier 10 is end of the line, ofc it has to be very hard... how many years did you spend for it anyway?

So the MU of tier components should be even higher, because that's how stuff gets balanced...
example: if you can loot 10 of item A a day but only 1 of item B a day, then item B should be worth about 10 times what item A is... all fine here.

 

[Evey]

The only problem I had (and pretty mch everyone else) with tiering was that everyone needing to tier past 3 had to go through Star Alex Gray, because opals were droppign mostly to gamblers that dont care about their money anyway so they threw to order anything they had and Star Alex had to tax the whole game. MA changed that giving hunters more control of this and it's great.

Droprate is stupid low atm but they just changed to this system and mechanics, a change is very less likely to happen in the near future. T10 was very easy to gather actually, T7 was the hardest for me, as many were in that range while very few shoot as hard as I shoot to get to t10 quick... and MU is dictated by demand ofc.

Why telling a very active player to adapt when you yourself quit the game several times past few years because you don't understand how to play and cannot adapt?
You getting everything backwards is very funny and understandable since your expertise in is chairs industry only...

 

[Deleted member 55358]

Ill add my 2 cents.. i know many many people tiering atm which i suspect is why the MU is so high, Many more than usual. I dont think theres any issue with balance here its simply current demand.

 

[Alukat123]

Why telling a very active player to adapt when you yourself quit the game several times past few years because you don't understand how to play and cannot adapt?

Crafting and hunting is world aparts, that's something you obviously still don't understand lol

In hunting you have options to adapt, like use different setting, hunt in a team etc... on crafting, there's no way to adapt, it's simply just select the amount of clicks and that's all you can do.. maybe MA should add team-crafting and bonus metal residue and remove no-looters ofc, then it would be somewhat on par with hunting.

unbelieveable that you still don't get that xD

I mean, hunters cry over 100s of things and there's adjustments all the time, they even made crafting worse to cater to hunters... crafter ask for a single thing, nothing happens xD i guess MA is too busy with all the complains by hunters.....

Oh well, maybe they will, once we crafters start whining as much as hunters do xD Hunters have the least to complain but complain the most xD

So back to topic, maybe you hunters just adapt this once instead of going the complaining route again?

 

[Evey]

once we crafters

Funniest thing this year on this forum, calling yourself a crafter

 

[Alukat123]

Funniest thing this year on this forum, calling yourself a crafter

in contrary to you, who almost always hunts but barely even crafts, i am a crafter your 100 clicks a year doesn't make you a crafter xD

But back to topic, it's time MA stops adressing hunter comlains for once and takes care of the one complaint crafters have... the non-stop 60-80% TT-return for months on crafting is a far bigger issue than it taking a bit to gather components for tier upgrades...