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Should EU players be allowed to compete on Mayhem with multiple avatars?

Should EU players be allowed to compete on Mayhem with multiple avatars?

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Sulje

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Sulje
Hi all,

It's not another war thread, please keep healthy conversation here.

So I know many people who has multiple avatars hidden behind their wives, brothers, sisters family and such, playing from same IP address.

The question is, how moral and legal it is to have all categories on mayhem covered by single person, with uber gear?

Do you think it would be better to allow only one player per IP to compete, or keep current system, where you can for example see competitor in cat 1 with supremacy and uber gear ? Yeah I guess everyone can borrow some uber gear and compete, but if you allow 1 household = one category, then they would be able to only use the gear on single avatar, in case they have like 4-5 "family members" competing across all categories.

I think certain people has leached too much money from Mayhem competitions, trough cheating, exploiting, but let's not forget using multiple avatars as well. I will not name them, but most of them live off this "game", which is also ok, but let's not live by stealing off other players who play and compete fair and square.

I really want to know what community thinks on this topic, please again, don't get the thread toxic so mods have no reason to remove it.

Thanks all for replies in advance,
Emir
 
No, No and No.

I take issue with this. My son had an avatar and tried unsuccessfully to log on after a few years, in fact he caused an issue that locked my account and his. I got mine opened but when we sent a support case about his avatar they asked for ID. When we created the avatar he was young and only played under my supervision. He is now a teenager but in the meantime the age rules have changed to 18 so even if I send his ID they will reject it as he is too young. At the risk to my own account I have not pursued the matter and the money involved was not large and he could create a new account if he wanted.

My point is that if MA are going to be this strict over a genuine family member with his own account then I think it should follow that the EULA be adhered to with one account one player.

However, let us say my son was over 18 and had played for a number of years and I had an awesome setup to compete in Mayhem. Once I had completed my hours, should I be allowed to "lend" him my set up to compete.

The trouble is, how can MA prove it was me or my son playing his avatar. Who is actually pressing the keyboard and mouse. I am not sure there is anyway to prove it and I would love to see the results of a court case over this matter.

This game has enough scams and dodgy goings on that I believe the rules should be stuck to to prevent tears later on.

Just my 2 pennies worth
 
Gear should realistically be 'locked' to one avatar for the entirety of mayhem. Once an avatar has entered a mayhem instance and started their timer, that gear should not be tradable unless they first forfeit their score (weapons, rings, armour, fap etc). This way if people have LEGITIMATE spouses, they would have their own gear already.
 
moondog said:
However, let us say my son was over 18 and had played for a number of years and I had an awesome setup to compete in Mayhem. Once I had completed my hours, should I be allowed to "lend" him my set up to compete.

The trouble is, how can MA prove it was me or my son playing his avatar. Who is actually pressing the keyboard and mouse. I am not sure there is anyway to prove it and I would love to see the results of a court case over this matter.
Click to expand...


I think we agree on this.

I don't have problem if you borrow your equipment to your son, but who can say who played survival competition for example on certain avatar, if both are from same household.

Playing is one thing, competing I see as a whole different world, especially where real money prizes are involved.

Thank you for your input on this topic.
 
Hijacker27 said:
Gear should realistically be 'locked' to one avatar for the entirety of mayhem. Once an avatar has entered a mayhem instance and started their timer, that gear should not be tradable unless they first forfeit their score (weapons, rings, armour, fap etc). This way if people have LEGITIMATE spouses, they would have their own gear already.
Click to expand...

It's not about not letting people play at all, just not let multiple people compete from same house, as we can't be certain who is behind the keyboard, especially with survival competition.

I think what you suggested is not easy to implement from MA side, as they don't have development team, but making rules more strict and making some effort to enforce them would be easier.
 
Hijacker27 said:
Gear should realistically be 'locked' to one avatar for the entirety of mayhem. Once an avatar has entered a mayhem instance and started their timer, that gear should not be tradable unless they first forfeit their score (weapons, rings, armour, fap etc). This way if people have LEGITIMATE spouses, they would have their own gear already.
Click to expand...
This please, or restrict by IP completely.
 
i Would go one step further apart locking gears.... you should not have more than 1 P token on you..... if u win, Mtoken are yours (wo hou can have the item you want with that P) and P token goes to 4th in rank
simplky as this.
a third step would be "bbind weapons to account" and cant have more than one.....
but remember all teh aboce (mayhem like viceroy) would mean less money for ma and less money for weapons producers (and sellers)
so ...
rules exist are broken, no one cares.... it is easy.. all can be coded in a game where you got the sources.

IP is not a matter, yuo can fake IP from which uu play, and can Fake also macaddress in packets so that is not a solution

Mayhem is simply won by who invest much money into it.... medistim to survive defense those few minutes more
full pill and full amp and enhancement to hope to get a 5k or 2x 5k points.... it is a pay to win.... and ppl DO pay

back on topic.... we ahve rental (yes Xanato i am talking about you mate) that offer powerful item to become competitive
so the average player can "rent" an item for 1 day and have his ticket to win mayhem too

and speaking with a high level cat 9 (yes its you) i understood that there is not so much to win in mayhem
competition is to get M token to extract weapons...... that now require melee or level 100 for the lowest available
o also reselling is a thinner market for available token trader items.....
maybe someone will make SB90's .....
 
Hijacker27 said:
Gear should realistically be 'locked' to one avatar for the entirety of mayhem. Once an avatar has entered a mayhem instance and started their timer, that gear should not be tradable unless they first forfeit their score (weapons, rings, armour, fap etc). This way if people have LEGITIMATE spouses, they would have their own gear already.
Click to expand...
I like this suggestion, lock the gear to one avatar during mayhem the feature practically exists already with the 'protect/unprotect' item button/status - participating in mayhem could just set that same flag and disable switch button for all gear that was equipped/used while in the instance. Once the score is completed / mission finished there could be a grace period the items remain protected before becoming tradeable again.
 
Hijacker27 said:
Gear should realistically be 'locked' to one avatar for the entirety of mayhem. Once an avatar has entered a mayhem instance and started their timer, that gear should not be tradable unless they first forfeit their score (weapons, rings, armour, fap etc). This way if people have LEGITIMATE spouses, they would have their own gear already.
Click to expand...

I personally don't agree on locking the gear to one avatar. This time around I rented some rings from Xanato for competing and have my rental only for one week. If the gear was locked then that would force me to rent these rings for the whole mayhem and I just don't have the funds to go that long.
 
lock gear during mayhem if you are participating. all problems solved.

there should not be an 'avtive new lock system', rather a check on the winners whether the high end items they used, were not 'passed around like a plate of cocaine on a party'. It's pretty stupid if 1 top gun can be passed around and take all of the 10 spots in an event (category).


I'm not a fan of some rich people buying up gear, and renting it out to make profits.
This does not contribute to a healthy market economy.

(It is ok to rent out your gear for a short time, for instance if you don't need it for a short time. But it should not be a profession to be a banker.)
 
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Not bad idea, but I don't think locking gear would help, as I know the people that's involved in this scheme, has weapons for multiple categories on each avatar, so it wouldn't make any difference.
 
1. Flag the gear you want to use for Mayhem, before Mayhem starts.
2. Flagged gear gets locked for the duration of Mayhem.
3. Unflagged gear can NOT be used during Mayhem.

Problem solved.
 
Accidentally flag the wrong item and RIP?
 
NO!!??
Any mention of multiple avatars for 1 player is pretty much 100% against ToA
Had to be such a critic but IMO this thread should be closed.
 
allarom said:
Accidentally flag the wrong item and RIP?
Click to expand...
I have suggested this in the past.
No reason you can't flag new items? If you borrow from your spouse or friend an item to use to compete in mayhem. It would be locked during the duration of the mayhem event. You can still use new items but they too would be locked for same duration. Maybe rings could be an exception so that rental services could still exist, but other UL gear would be locked.
 
DavinFelth said:
NO!!??
Any mention of multiple avatars for 1 player is pretty much 100% against ToA
Had to be such a critic but IMO this thread should be closed.
Click to expand...

You can play multiple avatars, as long as each avatar has real person behind it, that can show some ID if they are being asked by MindArk.
 
sell Ptoke in web shop for 2000 USD ?
this is a solution that MA can consider :p

apart jokes, all interesting ideas but remember mayhem is not made to distribute prizes... it is made to make ppl shot more at full power so that MA revenues on decay and key sales rise....
and all in all it is just a "luck with 5k points monster" lottery.

in game there are ? 30 mayhem weapons? ok.
people pay 5k eur to 20k eur for those? ok

main problem could be reduced in "we want more player to access higher eff items"
that is probabaly THE point....

efficiency is considered very important and average items are 62 for mid level
then there is some 68.
Limited item are under 70

we need a bunch of 70 to 79 eff guns to make ppl happy with a dream to become
rich? i think we will receive some in 2023 for next T(wenty(EN event

until then if not restocked high eff will remain just on a bunch of items

personally i would introduce a "global player quest" ... some special "eff card" to
be delivered to a specific NPC and as it receive 1 (or 10 or 1000) of those on the
same weapon tag that one would increase for all players 0.1 EFF ... a common goal...
are we not here to fight robots? make an event to make existing weapons stronger
after adjust at ithaca make them Imp, MOd and perfected.... so we can upgrade what
we have to get more dps (more ammo more decay more moeny for ma)
and use some amterials to upgrada (a fresh life for crafters and hunters)

we all want more power, more eff more dpp..... jsut give us quests to do it
i think many of us are ready to kill 100.000 mob if that quest reward our weapon
with a 1% eff more.........
 
Sulje said:
Not bad idea, but I don't think locking gear would help, as I know the people that's involved in this scheme, has weapons for multiple categories on each avatar, so it wouldn't make any difference.
Click to expand...

Except my suggestion is not just weapons. Armour rings and faps would need to be locked too. Those items are just as important as weapons.
 
A few of my real life friends used to play EU, and quite often when visiting each others houses we would log on to our accounts either on laptop, main or second computer. I think pursuing the IP lock suggestion would punish and inhibit too many genuine and innocent players. Now, if the ped made and money withdrawn is all being sent to one account, that is where MA may need to look at in regard to people abusing the system with multiple avatars.
 
The could make mayhem competitions a little shorter maybe 1 week and lock hunting equipemt gamewide so trading isnt possible for the duration of mayhems. sux for traders but might fix that issue.

Many would not like this option but it would easily fix it :)
 
mspatterson said:
The could make mayhem competitions a little shorter maybe 1 week and lock hunting equipemt gamewide so trading isnt possible for the duration of mayhems. sux for traders but might fix that issue.

Many would not like this option but it would easily fix it :)
Click to expand...

Hell no, why let the whole playerbase suffer 4/5 weeks a year? EU is a RCE, shutting down trading for a few weeks a year would be terrible. I agree with the idea mentioned before, users competing can have their equipment locked for the duretion of the competition.
 
When you have players offering and sometimes even paying others to have their skills so that they can go into a lower category, then you know you have a problem with your type of events!
 
IP would not mean absolutely nothing. Use a VPN and you have another IP. Most people have dynamic IPs so simply disconnect your router and get a new one.
And those rare ones that actually have a fixed IP and more people in the household using it would be screwed ?
Those that want to use mutiple avas will have their ways to do it anyway, and per your concept those that do not but have a few legimitate accounts in one household would get punished.

As for locking the oufits, would restrict lending it way too much.
Would mean I can not rent an armour or gun for a few days.
And again, those that are using mutliple avas in order to compete in lower categories will have a killer outfit anyway.
Does one need a really high value armour up to cat 6 ?
DPS of the guns might be an issue, but it is not like in anything below cat5 those are really rare or absolutely unobtainable.
Reload may be an issue, but again nothing a few pills can fix (at least I hit with my low noobish outfit in Cat8 Merry Mayhem 27% reload and I do not even have any Mayhem ring, just a medium Athenic and a Mayhem (L) armour and quite a few pills).

sucks, but those that simply do not have the personality to play and win fair, will use every and any possibility to win.
In the end, karma is a bitch and they will never understand what happened... they will whine here openly how innocent they are and how unfair everything is..just because they have no personality to write home about and try to comepnsate that with cheating.
 
Sulje said:
Do you think it would be better to allow only one player per IP to compete, or keep current system, where you can for example see competitor in cat 1 with supremacy and uber gear ? Yeah I guess everyone can borrow some uber gear and compete, but if you allow 1 household = one category, then they would be able to only use the gear on single avatar, in case they have like 4-5 "family members" competing across all categories.
Click to expand...

Yes, at first its good to say "bad greedy ubers with their uber gear and uber greed, they took all our rewards".
But if you think a bit more about it, it just not really makes sense.

Lets say uberguy1 have his uber gun and uber skills on cat10, will he really launch a new avatar, to compete in cat1-2-3?

He cant loan the uber gun as dps limit wont allow to use it.
Sure its cheap and easy to find a high tier cat1-2-3 guns, but its same for everybody, im too was able to buy them when i was competing in cat1-2-3, no advantage.

Supremacy armor, like any real new player who really want to compete not able to buy a cheap L perseus or mayhem set, or even supremacy set, so no advantage there.
Überfap? Not need there with those armor in low categories, but sure, anybody can loan an emt 2350 mod for example, im too loaned one from a healer service guy for my last halloween survival run.

Pills available to everybody.

There are cheap ares rings that is fine there, only an OP seasonal ring combo is there, what can be advantage against others.

But that feeble ring combo is no match for the power of the 5k score, no guaranteed win, not even guarnateed top3 if bonus scores wont drop for baduberguyaltavatar.


So, they do it for what reason?
To win 3000 mayhem tokens in double 1st place on cat1?

That is like 1500 ped best case.
It cost ped to skill up the avatar for at least that skill where he can use that cat1 top gun.
It will be around 10-15k ped cycle for the 10 hour of annihilation + other type, with the low looter, low efficiency weapon and on top of that he also uses consumable's, breaks enhancers.

Sure, in cat2 or cat3 is a bit more in rewards, but also more in cost's and cycle with still low efficiency gun, low looter skills compared to his uber main, and as the alt goes higher category, more competition by real players.

A real uber with his uber stuff and uber gun most probably would earn more on farming boxes and tokens for 10h in higher category, than what would left from the cat1-2 rewards after cost's.

It would be a waste of time for ubers with real uber stuff, so probably most case's are real family members.
 
I think we are agreeing that the underlying issue is the lack of robust controls in place.

True, MA requires a valid ID submitted whenever an avatar is locked in suspicion of being an alternate.
And yes, MA also actively monitors IP addresses that logins occur from.

The controls in place can be bypassed, easily - and more likely solely rely on people doing the right thing.

My suggestions:
1) Make the requirements stricter, upon making an account or have it verified before the avatar can compete in mayhem - such as multiple forms of verification for personal information (not just photo ID) such as IRL address, phone number, or bank account.

2) Track logins to MAC (hardware) addresses in addition to IP. Cross reference as needed. Lock if the same MAC address used for other accounts.

3) Disconnect avatars automatically with high latency to avoid issues with possible Virtual Machines (hypervisors) or Net Limiters for intentional desync advantages.

4) Scale rewards based on category so players who are capable of competing at higher categories are not incentivized to compete in lower categories. Or, alternatively make each category a specific PM token for a weapon of that level / DPS caliber, so that cat 2 winners aren't able to redeem an LP-100.


Regards,
- VH
 
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mspatterson said:
The could make mayhem competitions a little shorter maybe 1 week and lock hunting equipemt gamewide so trading isnt possible for the duration of mayhems. sux for traders but might fix that issue.

Many would not like this option but it would easily fix it :)
Click to expand...

Hmm I rely on sales during events for items I manufacture. This would be a kick in the teeth for me and other crafters - I beleive the only solution would be to declare all items you want to use in events in advance and then lock items to the avatar until the event ends. I do not know how easy it would be to achieve though
 
VandalHand said:
2) Track logins to MAC (hardware) addresses in addition to IP. Cross reference as needed. Lock if the same MAC address used for other accounts.

3) Disconnect avatars automatically with high latency to avoid issues with possible Virtual Machines (hypervisors) or Net Limiters for intentional desync advantages.



Regards,
- VH
Click to expand...

2. Useless, takes a click to change the MAC address, one can have a new one every new connect or even change it on the fly. Also even if one would take the MAC address of the router .... how would MA know what is which ? They would need to have a tunnel to your computer, have the hardware configuration and just making a tunnel to have nothing in between would produce latency. And what if I am acutally using a VM to play ? And MA using a tunnel into my network to spy on all my MACs ? What if they are compromised and thus my network because of that ?
Within your own network you can most of the time get all the MAC adresses used within it, within the internet, no chance...no need, what would you want the MAC adresses of the gaziellions of switches and routers inbetween for ?

3. Uselesss, first off, the latency from a VM is not really distinguishable... I even think my physical computers have probably more latency than my VMs. They have to talk via a 1GBit/s link to my firewall and the VMs are using a 10Gbit/s (or rather a virtual switch, because the firewall is virtualized)
Also, what is "high latency" ? Those 20-80ms I get at my modem anyway ?
Blame me because my ISP sucks ? or because some packets got routed to the Netherlands via Japan first ?
Net limiters ? Or do you mean load balancers? Should I get punished because I priortize my work VPN over EU?

If the solutions were "easy" there would be solutions, they simply are not easy.
 
Hego Damask said:
Yes, at first its good to say "bad greedy ubers with their uber gear and uber greed, they took all our rewards".
But if you think a bit more about it, it just not really makes sense.

Lets say uberguy1 have his uber gun and uber skills on cat10, will he really launch a new avatar, to compete in cat1-2-3?

He cant loan the uber gun as dps limit wont allow to use it.
Sure its cheap and easy to find a high tier cat1-2-3 guns, but its same for everybody, im too was able to buy them when i was competing in cat1-2-3, no advantage.

Supremacy armor, like any real new player who really want to compete not able to buy a cheap L perseus or mayhem set, or even supremacy set, so no advantage there.
Überfap? Not need there with those armor in low categories, but sure, anybody can loan an emt 2350 mod for example, im too loaned one from a healer service guy for my last halloween survival run.

Pills available to everybody.

There are cheap ares rings that is fine there, only an OP seasonal ring combo is there, what can be advantage against others.

But that feeble ring combo is no match for the power of the 5k score, no guaranteed win, not even guarnateed top3 if bonus scores wont drop for baduberguyaltavatar.


So, they do it for what reason?
To win 3000 mayhem tokens in double 1st place on cat1?

That is like 1500 ped best case.
It cost ped to skill up the avatar for at least that skill where he can use that cat1 top gun.
It will be around 10-15k ped cycle for the 10 hour of annihilation + other type, with the low looter, low efficiency weapon and on top of that he also uses consumable's, breaks enhancers.

Sure, in cat2 or cat3 is a bit more in rewards, but also more in cost's and cycle with still low efficiency gun, low looter skills compared to his uber main, and as the alt goes higher category, more competition by real players.

A real uber with his uber stuff and uber gun most probably would earn more on farming boxes and tokens for 10h in higher category, than what would left from the cat1-2 rewards after cost's.

It would be a waste of time for ubers with real uber stuff, so probably most case's are real family members.
Click to expand...

I can think of at least 2 very obvious and well known / recognizable people that compete in Cat 10 and Cat 6/7 that consistently win top places in mayhem and tokens from both. Is it worthwhile? Yes, why? because they don't have to spend the time or money in their own category to learn all the intricacies of how to win in Survival/Defense/Assault mayhem. Also, double box farm running on 2 computers.

It is definitely not a waste of time to someone who knows how to set it up correctly. and fully takes advantage of the system.

I have no doubt that these particular players have accounts fully registered to their wives or girlfriends and could provide ID to show so but, I also have no doubt that the person playing to win mayhem is the same person that plays the main account. Maybe they'll even have the gumption to chime in here, but I doubt it.

Don't know how you can fix it, would love to see it stopped but I just don't think it's enforceable under the current rules.
 
WoenK said:
Net limiters ? Or do you mean load balancers? Should I get punished because I priortize my work VPN over EU?

If the solutions were "easy" there would be solutions, they simply are not easy.
Click to expand...

I didn't say these controls were meant to be impossible to bypass. They just put more steps in place to catch nefarious activity, nor did I claim implementing the necessary controls / solutions would be easy.

Also, I mean limiting bandwidth to purposely desync from the game during Survival Mayhem to escape packs of mobs and avoid dying. However you achieve that is up to you I suppose.


Regards,
VH
 
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