Info: Weapon Review: Ashley & Perrin Series Mayhem BP-70, Perfected

[Xen]

It should be noted this gun originally sold for 70-80k. Some prices have become absurd and the mayhem vendor needs to be restocked.

 

[Evey]

[...] the mayhem vendor needs to be restocked.

Yes, they should put same amount as pills >1000. Every year.

 

[Kerham]

My Returns over last 1.1 million cycled

Seriously these are your stats? I never logged any activity in this game to not reach 97%ish at about 100k turnover and stabilize there if the rhythm is sustained. A slow casual low lvl is bound to reach about only 1% under your results. Something is off.

 

[Jhereg]

Seriously these are your stats? I never logged any activity in this game to not reach 97%ish at about 100k turnover and stabilize there if the rhythm is sustained. A slow casual low lvl is bound to reach about only 1% under your results. Something is off.

I don't even know how to start responding to this . Perhaps you can elaborate on what might be off...

 

[Kerham]

I don't even know how to start responding to this . Perhaps you can elaborate on what might be off...

Your tt return. Should be about 3% more.

 

[Jhereg]

Your tt return. Should be about 3% more.

Okay, why should it be 3% more?

 

[Kerham]

Okay, why should it be 3% more?

Because of efficiency impact. Were I to base my eventual decision of buying some 80% eff weapon on your results vs. my logs with ArMatrix, I would pass. Even with MU spent on ArMatrix I'd be overall at 96%. Also based on using LR40 fen (L) as long as it was available at a reasonable price, where ttwise I was spot on where efficiency would lead me, once I passed a very low threshold of turnover even, around 20k. Knowing your forum personna tho for years, I would hope that there is a serious difference of methodology between us, otherwise you're probably the most unlucky hunter I ever saw providing some form of data.

 

[Jhereg]

Because of efficiency impact. Were I to base my eventual decision of buying some 80% eff weapon on your results vs. my logs with ArMatrix, I would pass. Even with MU spent on ArMatrix I'd be overall at 96%. Also based on using LR40 fen (L) as long as it was available at a reasonable price, where ttwise I was spot on where efficiency would lead me, once I passed a very low threshold of turnover even, around 20k. Knowing your forum personna tho for years, I would hope that there is a serious difference of methodology between us, otherwise you're probably the most unlucky hunter I ever saw providing some form of data.

I think you are probably underestimating the amount of variance that can occur even on very large amounts of cycle. You can certainly achieve expected value on small cycle, especially on smaller mobs, as you seem to state in your post. But if you don't get the larger multipliers you need, your tt can sink pretty fast.

 

[Rick Sanchez]

Because of efficiency impact. Were I to base my eventual decision of buying some 80% eff weapon on your results vs. my logs with ArMatrix, I would pass. Even with MU spent on ArMatrix I'd be overall at 96%. Also based on using LR40 fen (L) as long as it was available at a reasonable price, where ttwise I was spot on where efficiency would lead me, once I passed a very low threshold of turnover even, around 20k. Knowing your forum personna tho for years, I would hope that there is a serious difference of methodology between us, otherwise you're probably the most unlucky hunter I ever saw providing some form of data.

Cool, so anecdotal evidence + small cycle > hard numbers + large cycle. Loot 2.0 has been totally refuted

 

[Jhereg]

Because of efficiency impact. Were I to base my eventual decision of buying some 80% eff weapon on your results vs. my logs with ArMatrix, I would pass. Even with MU spent on ArMatrix I'd be overall at 96%. Also based on using LR40 fen (L) as long as it was available at a reasonable price, where ttwise I was spot on where efficiency would lead me, once I passed a very low threshold of turnover even, around 20k. Knowing your forum personna tho for years, I would hope that there is a serious difference of methodology between us, otherwise you're probably the most unlucky hunter I ever saw providing some form of data.

Also. The difference between 66% efficiency versus 92% effciency is 1.8% tt return.

66% vs 80% is probably about half of that, or just under 1% TT return.

Just FYI

 

[Kerham]

I think you are probably underestimating the amount of variance that can occur even on very large amounts of cycle. You can certainly achieve expected value on small cycle, especially on smaller mobs, as you seem to state in your post. But if you don't get the larger multipliers you need, your tt can sink pretty fast.

There is hardly such thing as not getting those multipliers. Activity has to be extremely erratic for that to happen, and looking at your EL profile, you got them, actually. Are we counting the same things? I count as tt expenses weapon decay, ammo and amp decay and, separately, armor and fap (because i don't believe is reimbursed 100% and anyway i like to compare that for various mobs). However, when I gave these figures I meant everything, defensive decay included. Shrapnel I count as tt in, and when converted it becomes tt out, with UA as ammo for when is used and 1% accounted for in MU. Do you calculate anything significantly different, such as to affect the results?

I am not ignoring anything, your results correspond to about 36 eff.

Cool, so anecdotal evidence + small cycle > hard numbers + large cycle. Loot 2.0 has been totally refuted

You misred my post. Like, entirely. My stance is the exact opposite of what you mention.

 

[Rick Sanchez]

You misred my post. Like, entirely. My stance is the exact opposite of what you mention.

Don't see how it could be, seeing as you're still only telling us stories about your 20k cycle instead of showing your superior calculations.

I am not ignoring anything, your results correspond to about 36 eff.

And...I'm done here. Laughable.

 

[Jhereg]

There is hardly such thing as not getting those multipliers. Activity has to be extremely erratic for that to happen, and looking at your EL profile, you got them, actually. Are we counting the same things? I count as tt expenses weapon decay, ammo and amp decay and, separately, armor and fap (because i don't believe is reimbursed 100% and anyway i like to compare that for various mobs). However, when I gave these figures I meant everything, defensive decay included. Shrapnel I count as tt in, and when converted it becomes tt out, with UA as ammo for when is used and 1% accounted for in MU. Do you calculate anything significantly different, such as to affect the results?

I am not ignoring anything, your results correspond to about 36 eff.





You misred my post. Like, entirely. My stance is the exact opposite of what you mention.

TT in: weapon , armor, and fap costs.
TT out: All loot
Properly backed out shrapnel conversion.

(Pretty simple, tt used versus tt returned)

I think you are missing the point. During this particular 1.1 million ped cycle, I got almost no loots over 1k ped, resulting in an extremely low tt return. Certainly I do get hofs sometimes. But the point you are missing is that the variance is much larger than you might expect.

Do I expect loot to get better? I sure hope so. Clearly other players with similar gear and skills has (See subzeros original post of 100%+ returns). Edit: Here's the post link of his returns he posted earlier in thread: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...es-mayhem-bp-70-perfected.280239/post-3745534

Also, you can't really associate a particular tt return with a particular efficiency. You can compare expected tt return differences of weapons of different efficiency that you will use, but once you talk about different players, then looter skill comes into effect, and all bets are off.

Bottom line is: The amount of ped cycled to get to expected value is likely much larger than 1 million peds.

 

[Kerham]

Don't see how it could be, seeing as you're still only telling us stories about your 20k cycle instead of showing your superior calculations.

And...I'm done here. Laughable.

Ok, let's make a debate exercise then.

If

1. I am writing bollocks
2. high eff is normal to give 95,5% over ONE MILLION turnover

then why should one even buy high eff items?

Here's my (very) erratic log from hunting a bit in 2019 (and that's even with trying regular ep41 at times)

Hunting 2019 public

Sheet1 Sum tt loot,94.944,19,Sum tt expense off,97.111,60,Sum tt deff,1.179,87 Sum tt all,98.291,47,TT balance all,-3.347,28 % all,96,59% TT gun,TT amp spent,TT Ammo,Total TT/run,Defensive decay,Def eff,TT loot,TT balance/run,TT % /run,TT balance off,TT off % 0,00,0,00,2.954,00,2.954,00,13,00,0,44%

docs.google.com

But the point you are missing is that the variance is much larger than you might expect.

The only possibility for this to be a thing is that variance itself to have a log. progression per tiers of cost-to-kill-event and you to be, I don't know, in the realm of constant 30 ped per kill actual cost, just as a hypothesis. In my world, up to around 7 peds per event, your results don't exist and I see them regulated very fast, very rarely would need 1k tries. I play anyway alot when I am active, but if I am actually putting the hours (8-10) and stabilize as much as possible (weapon used, maturity, buffs etc), I actually tend to score higher than eff would grant. I don't believe looter level has any kind of impact in the perspective you mention, I am barely 36. The one aspect which I believe has a disproportionate importance is turnover/time, MA likes that and pays for it (with tt trash, but still). But then again you can't make 1M by not playing. Were it anybody else than you (or, to countour the group, somebody like Oleg and such), I would say you're talking bs. So I sincerely have no idea what to say/think on the matter.

 

[Slyk]

Ok, let's make a debate exercise then.

If

1. I am writing bollocks
2. high eff is normal to give 95,5% over ONE MILLION turnover

then why should one even buy high eff items?

Here's my (very) erratic log from hunting a bit in 2019 (and that's even with trying regular ep41 at times)

Hunting 2019 public

Sheet1 Sum tt loot,94.944,19,Sum tt expense off,97.111,60,Sum tt deff,1.179,87 Sum tt all,98.291,47,TT balance all,-3.347,28 % all,96,59% TT gun,TT amp spent,TT Ammo,Total TT/run,Defensive decay,Def eff,TT loot,TT balance/run,TT % /run,TT balance off,TT off % 0,00,0,00,2.954,00,2.954,00,13,00,0,44%

docs.google.com

I have had 94% with 80% over 1million cycled. I also did 100%+ for all of MM with the same. (roughly 600k cycled MM)

If we're discussing millions of ped cycled, we should all post our profession rankings to see who has gathered more data

 

[Jhereg]

Ok, let's make a debate exercise then.

If

1. I am writing bollocks
2. high eff is normal to give 95,5% over ONE MILLION turnover

then why should one even buy high eff items?

Here's my (very) erratic log from hunting a bit in 2019 (and that's even with trying regular ep41 at times)

Hunting 2019 public

Sheet1 Sum tt loot,94.944,19,Sum tt expense off,97.111,60,Sum tt deff,1.179,87 Sum tt all,98.291,47,TT balance all,-3.347,28 % all,96,59% TT gun,TT amp spent,TT Ammo,Total TT/run,Defensive decay,Def eff,TT loot,TT balance/run,TT % /run,TT balance off,TT off % 0,00,0,00,2.954,00,2.954,00,13,00,0,44%

docs.google.com

You need to make a viewable link to share

 

[Kerham]

You need to make a viewable link to share

damn ) refresh, please

I have had 94% with 80% over 1million cycled. I also did 100%+ for all of MM with the same. (roughly 600k cycled MM)

If we're discussing millions of ped cycled, we should all post our profession rankings to see who has gathered more data

There's no secret to it, 68 the biggest, laser pistoleer. (and 82 naturally agi, discounting what i got from various missions/meta. Chipped out heavily alot of times at around lvl40, I don't know where my entirely natural level should be over the 15 years I played). I did stayed religiously under 4 ped per kill though for almost the entirety of my playtime.

 

[M Rufen Power]

I think the variance is somewhere around 2.1%, just my opinion on that; please don't ask how I know this.

Just because 1 player is getting 100% doesn't mean that is the expected return of a particular setup.

I have experienced returns as high as 99.88% to the current 98.46% due to the right multipliers.

 

[Xen]

Yes, they should put same amount as pills >1000. Every year.

I know you are being sarcastic, but hyperinflation is not good for the game.

 

[RickEngland]

So you pay 200k peds upfront, with an "expectation" of hunting for free. Or use something else and have 200k on your ped card or in your RL bank.

Do you need a 2x 30k rings with that, and 60k of armour, plus a 100k bankroll?

Nice kit if you can either loot it or win it to begin with.

Alternatively you can have 200k of investments that pay a passive income, that would cover any difference in loot using a much cheaper weapon.

I wonder what the market is for s 200k gun? One potential customer per 5 years? With a very high risk that the day after purchase, MA will announce a new weapon with better stats.

All is good apart from the price tag.

Rick.

 

[Evey]

I know you are being sarcastic, but hyperinflation is not good for the game.

I agree, somewhat, but let me remind you imk2 used to be over 200k at some peak moment in the EU economy and only a coincidence turned that around....
Restocking would do far more harm than good to the game.

 

[Jhereg]

I know you are being sarcastic, but hyperinflation is not good for the game.

In response, I'm going to quote my own post above...

Also. The difference between 66% efficiency versus 92% effciency is 1.8% tt return.

66% vs 80% is probably about half of that, or just under 1% TT return.

Just FYI

Of course, the newer weapons have some nicer dpp generally also...

 

[Xen]

I agree, somewhat, but let me remind you imk2 used to be over 200k at some peak moment in the EU economy and only a coincidence turned that around....
Restocking would do far more harm than good to the game.

Restocking would harm the windfall appreciation of your weapon?

Demand has clearly risen, it would not hurt the game to increase the supply in proportion.

 

[Evey]

Restocking would harm the windfall appreciation of your weapon?

My weapon is not for sale, I don't care much of it's depreciation.

Demand has clearly risen, it would not hurt the game to increase the supply in proportion.

And it will also fall. Only a third of the items from the vendor have been purchased so far, still plenty of prizes to pick from. Financially I would have to gain from a restock actually... but I just don't think it's either good or going to ever happen. Maybe there will be an addition of items once they change the structure, adding maybe new range of weapons, but these won't come back. They would disrupt too much the economy, if every 2 years they add 5 LR 60, 5 BP 70, 5 BC 80... Do you seriously see this ever happening? I don't.

 

[Xen]

My weapon is not for sale, I don't care much of it's depreciation.


And it will also fall. Only a third of the items from the vendor have been purchased so far, still plenty of prizes to pick from. Financially I would have to gain from a restock actually... but I just don't think it's either good or going to ever happen. Maybe there will be an addition of items once they change the structure, adding maybe new range of weapons, but these won't come back. They would disrupt too much the economy, if every 2 years they add 5 LR 60, 5 BP 70, 5 BC 80... Do you seriously see this ever happening? I don't.

Come on, you know the most desirable weapons are gone, save 1 mod 100. The imp 110 is ok but not as good.

 

[Jhereg]

Come on, you know the most desirable weapons are gone, save 1 mod 100. The imp 110 is ok but not as good.

TBH, imp 110 not bad. Not as good as lp100, but still only 4% less eff, < 4% less dps, and way more dpp if L version is the same stat....

Plus, there are more phat blp amps to go with it...

 

[Xen]

TBH, imp 110 not bad. Not as good as lp100, but still only 4% less eff, < 4% less dps, and way more dpp if L version is the same stat....

Plus, there are more phat blp amps to go with it...

Yeah, it's ok/good, but there are sadly no high efficiency blp amps as with laser.

 

[messi91]

but there are sadly no high efficiency blp amps as with laser.

Except all from boxes and ar-matrix series which all people use them anyway.

 

[PrototypeGG]

Bla Bla Bla ..all those BPs/pistols etc are short range weapons. You guys are very ignorant here by totaly ingoring the one very key stat on a weapon... THE RANGE ! Big range weapons almost always means no downtime or close to zero. This in reality is TONS of extra DPS and zero ninja pulling vs mobs with high agro .
As ex WoW hardcore gamer i ll tell you 1 more thing u should keep in mind .its your fingers ! Switching weapon every mob is bad for your finger if u play whole day and it ll take very long time do notice it ...by the time you do you already did some nasty dmg to your fingers !
The BEST and i mean really the best grinding weapons in game if u care for max eff/dpp are LR-60 and BC-80 ....both are capable of doing very good dps once full loaded and tiered up.
I say they are the best cuz you can actually use em ....getting lvl 100+ pistol skills etc is not exactly an east task and take years and dedication to pistols.
Both weapons can use mayhem amps (this matter a lot since best ring combo in game has only 3% life steal, and if u buy a 150k weapon min/maxing is a thing !)
I would never consider bp-70 as an option to buy expenive weapon like ever . If i have 500k ped to shop BiS gear it wont be on my shoping list at all.(lp-100 will be on my list but its not easy to get skilled to use it). And no cuz its bad weapon ...i just hate runing like retard from mob to mob and i do value every extra range up till 60-70+ a lot ! When you buy a short ranged weapons you natrually force your self into farming big ass mobs limiting your options !

 

[PrototypeGG]

People have no idea how big of an impact sample size and big multis in this game have. Sub-Zero got lucky, Zho got bad luck, the truth is probably in between and also impacted by other factors (looter).

Truth is there are no magical weapons ! Sub zero being lucky way above avarge doesnt mean a shit on a long run and he knows it I know players who got 10k HoFs and lost them right away just in the next week. I know many players who hit BiG usually loose big before that too ...Eff helps you a lot if you cycle tons of ped daily but what really matters is the MU !!!! Speaking of witch High dpp is still a top stat to aim for if you hunt for MU ! And like Eve said all this means nothing if your dps is not there ....thats why prices like 28k for bc-30/bp20 are disgusting and not justified by any means !
Also rings / pills have HUGE impact on overall TT return and those (rings) cost almost as one weapon !
Some players profit with 60% eff weapons but some other loose regulary with 85%+ and this is the nature of the game . And some are just too ignorant and refuse to see the whole picture Cant blame anyone its a free market ! )

So yea in the end it might be better to have a high dsp(and do the right mobs!) with 100k extra ped for bank roll vs 150k weapon/low bankroll and high expectation haha ! Been there done that . It sux Balls to loose 5-8k ped per month with LR 60 Augm Tier 2 but i cant blame the weapon for it .