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Where does 50% Loot goes?

Korin Dante MDe said:
Players with medium skills often report 50% return in loot yet the Mindark is in losses as company. Where is 50% loot going?
Click to expand...
Often report with out any proof* most people complaining they get 50% returns are not even tracking their hunts I call bullshit until some one can actually show us long term returns that low
 
If there are no logs or tracking, it's hard to take people seriously as many don't understand the difference between ROI and turnover % (TT%). Both are valid, but must be looked at differently.

Conversely, there are many reports of excellent returns as well with the same disregard for fundamental information. You simply have to determine if they are telling the truth or not and whether there is ulterior motives (such as sales hype threads with unrealistic buffs or gear sets). We all know the meme at this point.
 
Korin Dante MDe said:
Players with medium skills often report 50% return in loot yet the Mindark is in losses as company. Where is 50% loot going?
Click to expand...
The problem with most "medium skill" player is simple.
When you go on a 10-20p hunt killing kerbs.. WTF do they expect ? That hof giving you 30000% return ?
 
Korin Dante MDe said:
Players with medium skills often report 50% return in loot yet the Mindark is in losses as company. Where is 50% loot going?
Click to expand...
Profile of a 50% return player :
lvl 20 hunter.
Karma Killer is main wepon more tiers better
Perseus armor with 60L cold plates(actulay can be any kind a L plates)
Hires Mod healers on daily basis
Depo 200$ and because he depos expect game to be nice to him and give big hoffs.
Complains in forum and chat chanels this game is casino!
Main mobs are Dasps, Tide claws, Big Feffox etc

Thats for me a 50% return player profile.. anything to add?
 
Korin Dante MDe said:
The point I want to make is balance sheet of mindark - https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/stock/mndrk/financials/cash-flow?countrycode=se
Click to expand...


The point is that the same people complaining about 50% returns are almost always making no impact on the total “money” given to mindark. Even if you believe their numbers are real, 50% return on 1000 ped cycle is 500 ped lost to mindark. Yet 99% returns on 1 million ped cycle is 10000 ped “lost” to mindark.


Take what you hear about returns and loot with a grain of salt
 
robber said:
anything to add?
Click to expand...
insta run out from calypso and make sure you never come back unless you want to sell to AH because other planets don't have one, oh wait.
get the slowest vehicle (lets say sleipnir) and fly with it through space to make sure you don't spend much money for warps.
Above anything before you commit to any activity in this game make sure you have all tps on all planet , each corner, if you miss one -10% tt return penalty.
Follow perception veins.
Pray to lootious multiple times a day.
Tier anything you have, even knight armor, or pixie to tier 9, barbarella to tier 12 if possible, anything as long as it ticks, click it, mindark will see you and they will award you.
When you log in into the game make sure you check all hof ladders and complain for each category.
Then collect all 3 dailies for potential daily bonus juicy daily tokens.
Don't hunt with higher level avatars in your radar, is bad luck and can affect your ped card.
Hunt 3 mobs if the loot is "dry" then logout of 3 weeks , return do the same.Eventually after 12 years you shoot enough will hit a 5 digit on a low level mob and make sure you say "this is my first 5digit in 15 years of playing, can't believe my avatar was cursed, not anymore"
When poining crosshair make sure you shoot between the eyes of the mob.
Grab the most dps weapon ignore all the other weapon stats.
WHen you deposit make sure you never do a big batch at once for example 50000 ped at once, make sure you do 20$ every now and then to make sure you lose them by next depo.
Change server frequently and do at least 3 clicks of explo4 in between hunt runs.
Every global make sure you buy 1 cheap deed for huge passive income.
When mayhem ends make sure you transform quickly all M tokens into pills and immediately sell them all and cash out just in case game goes bankrupt and mindark over night runs with all your money.
Assure yourself you never do anything different from what you used to do 15 years ago when the game was so much fun.
If miner then make sure you revisit all the good places you used to tower in the past and hope you will do it again.
If global then make 3 steps backwards and then count 50 steps right side, turn turn your head drop a bomb, make another 3 steps, pray a bit and then drop more south, then pray and extract first claim, then drop NW 1 bomb then 3 steps back place sleipnir, take it back and drop 1 more final bomb south straight and if the wind conditions are impeccable you should get a mini up to a global multiplier, if not it means that lootious is not in the office to see you personally and manually add that to your avatar because you are the choosen one in our galaxy.
And I have not even started crafting but that will take me at least 2 days, maybe other time :)
 
Last edited:
messi91 said:
insta run out from calypso and make sure you never come back unless you want to sell to AH because other planets don't have one, oh wait.
get the slowest vehicle (lets say sleipnir) and fly with it through space to make sure you don't spend much money for warps.
Follow perception veins.
Pray to lootious multiple times a day.
Tier anything you have, even knight armor, or pixie to tier 9, barbarella to tier 12 if possible, anything as long as it ticks, click it, mindark will you and they will award you.
When you log in into the game make sure you check all hof ladders and complain for each category.
Then collect all 3 dailies for potential daily bonus juicy daily tokens.
Don't hunt with higher level avatars in your radar, is bad luck and can affect your ped card.
Hunt 3 mobs if the loot is "dry" he logout of 3 weeks , return do the same.Eventually after 12 years you shoot enough will hit a 5 digit on a low level mob and make sure you say "this is my first 5digit in 15 years of playing, can't believe my avatar was cursed, not anymore"
When poining crosshair make sure you shoot between the eyes of the mob.
Grab the most dps weapon ignore all the other weapon stats.
Change server frequently and do at least 3 clicks of explo4 in between hunt runs.
Every global make sure you buy 1 cheap deed for huge passive income.
When mayhem ends make sure you transform quickly all M tokens into pills and immediately sell them all and cash out just in case game goes bankrupt and mindark over night runs with all your money.
Assure yourself you never do anything different from what you used to do 15 years ago when the game was so much fun.
If miner then make sure you revisit all the good places you used to tower in the past and hope you will do it again.
If global then make 3 steps backwards and then count 50 steps right side, turn turn your head drop a bomb, make another 3 steps, pray a bit and then drop more south, then pray and extract first claim, then drop NW 1 bomb then 3 steps back place sleipnir, take it back and drop 1 more final bomb south straight and if the wind conditions are impeccable you should get a mini up to a global multiplier, if not it means that lootious is not in the office to see you personally and manually add that to your avatar because you are the choosen one in our galaxy.
And I have not even started crafting but that will take me at least 2 days, maybe other time :)
Click to expand...
Some much thought process I need to put in. I might fuse out
 
Korin Dante MDe said:
Players with medium skills often report 50% return in loot yet the Mindark is in losses as company. Where is 50% loot going?
Click to expand...
The 50% lost goes into the EU economy including loot pool. Mindark said many years ago they make money from decay. However this was before loot 2 so it could be different today.
 
messi91 said:
insta run out from calypso and make sure you never come back unless you want to sell to AH because other planets don't have one, oh wait.
get the slowest vehicle (lets say sleipnir) and fly with it through space to make sure you don't spend much money for warps.
Follow perception veins.
Pray to lootious multiple times a day.
Tier anything you have, even knight armor, or pixie to tier 9, barbarella to tier 12 if possible, anything as long as it ticks, click it, mindark will you and they will award you.
When you log in into the game make sure you check all hof ladders and complain for each category.
Then collect all 3 dailies for potential daily bonus juicy daily tokens.
Don't hunt with higher level avatars in your radar, is bad luck and can affect your ped card.
Hunt 3 mobs if the loot is "dry" he logout of 3 weeks , return do the same.Eventually after 12 years you shoot enough will hit a 5 digit on a low level mob and make sure you say "this is my first 5digit in 15 years of playing, can't believe my avatar was cursed, not anymore"
When poining crosshair make sure you shoot between the eyes of the mob.
Grab the most dps weapon ignore all the other weapon stats.
Change server frequently and do at least 3 clicks of explo4 in between hunt runs.
Every global make sure you buy 1 cheap deed for huge passive income.
When mayhem ends make sure you transform quickly all M tokens into pills and immediately sell them all and cash out just in case game goes bankrupt and mindark over night runs with all your money.
Assure yourself you never do anything different from what you used to do 15 years ago when the game was so much fun.
If miner then make sure you revisit all the good places you used to tower in the past and hope you will do it again.
If global then make 3 steps backwards and then count 50 steps right side, turn turn your head drop a bomb, make another 3 steps, pray a bit and then drop more south, then pray and extract first claim, then drop NW 1 bomb then 3 steps back place sleipnir, take it back and drop 1 more final bomb south straight and if the wind conditions are impeccable you should get a mini up to a global multiplier, if not it means that lootious is not in the office to see you personally and manually add that to your avatar because you are the choosen one in our galaxy.
And I have not even started crafting but that will take me at least 2 days, maybe other time :)
Click to expand...

gullible guide 101

Don't hunt with higher level avatars in your radar, is bad luck and can affect your ped card. (uber came in my radar hoffed THAT WAS MY HOFF .. and left... i hate this game scam bots everywhere.... :D !)


You cant help stupid!
 
GeorgeSkywalker said:
The 50% lost goes into the EU economy including loot pool. Mindark said many years ago they make money from decay. However this was before loot 2 so it could be different today.
Click to expand...
Still the case today. Decay and fees, including money sinks (such as nutrio bar, space thrusters, repo sales, etc)
 
robber said:
Profile of a 50% return player :
lvl 20 hunter.
Karma Killer is main wepon more tiers better
Perseus armor with 60L cold plates(actulay can be any kind a L plates)
Hires Mod healers on daily basis
Depo 200$ and because he depos expect game to be nice to him and give big hoffs.
Complains in forum and chat chanels this game is casino!
Main mobs are Dasps, Tide claws, Big Feffox etc

Thats for me a 50% return player profile.. anything to add?
Click to expand...
Nah, thats the 0% retun guy you described. Cause they bottom out their ped card each month.
 
Korin Dante MDe said:
Players with medium skills often report 50% return in loot yet the Mindark is in losses as company. Where is 50% loot going?
Click to expand...

Whoever says he have 50% return is just dont understand how its calculated.
He start with for example 1000 ped ammo, hunting it to zero, reconvert shrap, again and again and again, after the end of the day, yes, he might finish with only 500 ped wort of loot, but that is not 1000p cycle with 50% return, just peoples have no idea of how to do math.
 
Charlie|MindArk said:

"The amount of turnover isn't very relevant to the average return or volatility in return for any individual player. To reach a stable average return it's really the amount of loot instances or creatures killed that matters. As an example, if a player kills 2 Sand Kings spending about 5000 PED to do so the expected loot returned on those 2 kills can vary greatly. If instead killing 200,000 Punies also about 5000 PED the expected loot return is going to be very close to the expected average of 96%+ seen in the 2017 group. A more realistic example of this is perhaps spending 300 PED hunting Proterons vs spending 300 PED hunting small Argonauts where the Argonaut hunt will usually yield similar results and the Proteron hunt results can be all over the place since the loot events are so few.
The reason turnover is chosen as the metric to present these statistics is because number of kills doesn't really say much about which level of players are in which category since anyone can kill a large number of mobs if they are small enough.

Turnover or PED "Cycled" is all PED decayed/destroyed/spent on killing a creature, this means decay for weapons, armor, ammo, healing, attachments etc. It has nothing to do with deposits, trade terminals or repair terminals etc."
 
Korin Dante MDe said:
Players with medium skills often report 50% return in loot yet the Mindark is in losses as company. Where is 50% loot going?
Click to expand...

Wouldnt comment on 50% because - yeah, no.

Let me explain cashflow statement briefly and a bit simplified.

- Cash flow is amount of cash or equivalents change year on year.
- Cash in are called revenue (lets call them deposits)
- Cash out are operating expences (to keep it simple - salaries, servers, debt service and refunds / withdraws)
- If cash in < cash out -> you have negative cashflow which if not equivalent to "Mindark is losing money"

To go bankrupt you need to have 3 of these to happen:
1) have debt
2) have cash less then debt
3) have debt called without mean of refinancing

Hope this helps guys, have fun.
 
What about 93% with 82 eff and 70+ looter after 1mln ped cycled? Guess i have to keep shooting... 😆
 
Its probably not 50% but its also not what MA claims it to be.
A big maybe if you would buy the best items ingame and gamble thousands of Euro's every month for skillgaining.
Thats why the experience of these high rollers is different then the most of us.
But for people that don't want to put in a minimal of 50K Euro's into this "game", expect low returns.

So only gamble what you can affort to lose, and dont expect peds will last a long time, and then perhaps you can gamble without worrying about returns.

Just like a real casino you can lose it all in 5 min, or you can have fun all night.
Just need some luck ;-)
 
Korin Dante MDe said:
Players with medium skills often report 50% return in loot yet the Mindark is in losses as company. Where is 50% loot going?
Click to expand...
Tetox is one of these "medium" players that pms me every now and then asking for advice. He always complains about his horrible returns.

He'll start a run with 1000 ped ammo and then in the end, after converting a couple of times and some repairs has 400 ped left = 40% return....

I told him to atleast use lootnanny to actually track his returns, he's been using it for 4-5 months now. Two days ago he pms me, "how do i delete a run"? My old runs keep loading when i restart the program. Turns out he only uses it for one run (which is generally 200-300 ped) and then deletes that run. Result = Still no idea what his actual return is.

This player did not know you can use residue in crafting, he's been playing since 2005. He asked me how I kept up with the huge swings clicking on condition to fill my shop :LOL:

I guess this is the "medium player" (sub level 50?) you're talking about, but saying that they "often" report 50% is wrong. I'd say players who report 50% returns are often people that don't actually track their returns and have no idea what their actual return is.
usually run around in perseus + L plates
use high tier 1750/zorra/crap weapon + mayhem amp + longreach/bullseye
hire fappers on mobs that are above his level/bankroll
gamble on lysterium power container/mining amps crap (not ep because bp too expensive)
Perception!!!!
List goes on and on...

Some players don't actually want to adapt to changes (been there, done that), accept a loss or change their gameplay.

I give up now and silently thank them for their contribution instead :) The game welcomes players like that.
 
Killahbee said:
Tetox is one of these "medium" players that pms me every now and then asking for advice. He always complains about his horrible returns.

He'll start a run with 1000 ped ammo and then in the end, after converting a couple of times and some repairs has 400 ped left = 40% return....

I told him to atleast use lootnanny to actually track his returns, he's been using it for 4-5 months now. Two days ago he pms me, "how do i delete a run"? My old runs keep loading when i restart the program. Turns out he only uses it for one run (which is generally 200-300 ped) and then deletes that run. Result = Still no idea what his actual return is.

This player did not know you can use residue in crafting, he's been playing since 2005. He asked me how I kept up with the huge swings clicking on condition to fill my shop :LOL:

I guess this is the "medium player" (sub level 50?) you're talking about, but saying that they "often" report 50% is wrong. I'd say players who report 50% returns are often people that don't actually track their returns and have no idea what their actual return is.
usually run around in perseus + L plates
use high tier 1750/zorra/crap weapon + mayhem amp + longreach/bullseye
hire fappers on mobs that are above his level/bankroll
gamble on lysterium power container/mining amps crap (not ep because bp too expensive)
Perception!!!!
List goes on and on...

Some players don't actually want to adapt to changes (been there, done that), accept a loss or change their gameplay.

I give up now and silently thank them for their contribution instead :) The game welcomes players like that.
Click to expand...
Advice nr 1... dont look at hof board. Means fuk all... i keep saying for one to hit 30k hoff one needs to loose 40k . But the do and they dream big with 1k ped card.. :/

U did sum up it very well bee.
 
The system could change to give 4999 of its active players 50% returns, but give out one loot of 15m ped to one player, and it would still be 96% average tt returns.

People will consistently conflate macro vs microeconomics within the game and keep recycling the same arguments and questions around loot returns over small sample sizes.

I'd advise reading more from their Financial reports: https://www.mindark.com/investor-re...documents/2023/MindArk_Annual_Report_2022.pdf as there are a number of differences between Income, Assets, Expenses and Profit that you're missing.
 
I would just like to point out that there is a very small statistical likelihood of ending up at 50% returns even on a very small sample like 100 loot instances.
I arrived at a ~1:4180 chance of ending up at 52.14% return on 100 kills with 0 looter and 0 efficiency based on sourced data. (The accuracy of which is unknown to me)
I have 1315 data points of 100 loot instances, and my lowest one is 58.96%
 
Killahbee said:
This player did not know you can use residue in crafting, he's been playing since 2005. He asked me how I kept up with the huge swings clicking on condition to fill my shop
Click to expand...
You can’t expect somebody to keep up with with such a recent game update such as residue use. I wonder if he still clicks each craft manually or has he figured out the auto click?
 
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