Question: Are unlimited weapons too expensive?

[Evey]

my criteria, that these weapons need to be "easy to obtain"

They are easy to obtain, you're just clueless about it.

 

[minim]

my bad , i tought you understood what he ment and that you could answer it, then i have a question for you then


if everybody has a UL 2.0 weapon, does the available markup that players can make increase or decrease

I did as confirmed below by Evey. It wasn't hard and he spelled it out pretty clear like I said.

If that happens the markup will shift as it's done many times before. Back when i started i farmed L guns for profit at scips. I still don't taget 2.0 weapons as source of MU as its out of my league/playstyle. I doubt you should do that aslo by the questions your asking.

 

[Goldenboy24]

my bad , i tought you understood what he ment and that you could answer it, then i have a question for you then

He did understand and explained to you, you didn't.

Probably what he wrote? This discussion will get very long if things have to be detailed more than this imo. His post was allready spoonfeeding you and I can't see how things can get clearer tbh but you should ask @Evey and not me ^^

when somebody asks me for clarification, i explain my position clearly, maybe its diffrent for him, and explenations are just a waste of time as he said

ou will not play the game just for the animation for very long, you will need a strong incentive to grind for as long as possible and there has to be something to keep you going, the famous carrot.

now i could be wrong, but i tought the famous carrot was the want to make profit, which i am arguing, will become more accesible to all players, if the playingfield is made more even, by making guns like your LP80 perfected and similiar a common drop, yes i understand it will come at your expense, but as you allready said

The ability to profit is not given by the weapon you're using. The weapon helps you but it's still on you to do your homework and get better prepared

so if we belive what he is saying here, adding better L weapons wont help these plebs, since they wont do their homework , and doing your homework has a much greater impact then some weapon you use

i have to say here that i completely disagree with him that the weapon has almost no impact on your results, it probably has the highest impact, but its irelevant that i disagree with him, becouse i want better L weapons in the game that are easy to obtain, whetver crafted from common materials or just droped by mobs, dont care how. and his position is at the very least, that he is indefrent to them, maybe he even agrees with more L guns needed

They are easy to obtain, you're just clueless about it.

again we have to ask ourselfs, easy to obtain for him raises no red flags that only a few on his friends are selling them or that the markup is ultra high, is this explained by stupidity, or dishonesty ?

but il add this then, considering you belive they are easy to obtain, you would be ok with the gun droping on the regular from commonly hunted mobs, like small proterons, or leviathans ?

 

[Evey]

again we have to ask ourselfs, easy to obtain for him raises no red flags that only a few on his friends are selling them or that the markup is ultra high, is this explained by stupidity, or dishonesty ?

but il add this then, considering you belive they are easy to obtain, you would be ok with the gun droping on the regular from commonly hunted mobs, like small proterons, or leviathans ?

Yeah, you should have refined your search criteria - easy to obrain by everyone. I don't care what drops what, I will go for the highest markup ofc, especially there where I can have an advantage due to investment in gear.

MTokens are obrainable by everyone but it requires work. You want the very best and has to be cheap AF. If availability would be plentiful of the top end spec weapons, MA would loose their main current business which is MAyhem. They would have to find completly different sources of markup to replace the weapons, if they would add super powerful L to common drop. They would also kill the whole other crafted series and looted series of existent weapons. All of this because an insignificant number of players don't want to buy a weapon from another player or farm it long enough. Makes perfect sense to you to change the whole game just so you can have cheap ass top weapons...

The 1PED TT Camo ELM being sold at 250 PED markup (at the right times) is perfectly acceptable tho? That one is obtainable by every hunter in the game... and while I consider LP80 perfected an easy drop is not easy for you to farm it.
1st you need a regular LP80 which contains redulite so from the start is going to be expensive, then you need a team of powerful hunters with very good gear to farm an RDI C1 which takes 45 minutes, depending on DPS. Things can go wrong, generator and ventilation rooms can get rested can take more than an hour. To get into C1 you need a key from B1. You can do a B1 with a team of strong players (or you can solo it if you're mental ) and about 30 minutes. To enter a B1 you need a B1 key for each member which you can obtain in A1, which again you need a team of players to do which need an A1 key as well. You get an A1 key by filling a blank calamusoid chip which requires around 400ped hunt in the swamp.If you do for example C1 in 4 people, you would have to split the LP80 perfected 4 ways or do 4 C1s so that everyone gets one. Repeat some steps in the ladder. Now, how cheap should that LP80 be from my perspective so that's worth farming and selling?

 

[Goldenboy24]

The 1PED TT Camo ELM being sold at 250 PED markup (at the right times) is perfectly acceptable tho?

yes, its fine, this would be an example of people making bad decisions, im ok with that

That one is obtainable by every hunter in the game... and while I consider LP80 perfected an easy drop is not easy for you to farm it.
1st you need a regular LP80 which contains redulite so from the start is going to be expensive, then you need a team of powerful hunters with very good gear to farm an RDI C1 which takes 45 minutes, depending on DPS. Things can go wrong, generator and ventilation rooms can get rested can take more than an hour. To get into C1 you need a key from B1. You can do a B1 with a team of strong players (or you can solo it if you're mental ) and about 30 minutes. To enter a B1 you need a B1 key for each member which you can obtain in A1, which again you need a team of players to do which need an A1 key as well. You get an A1 key by filling a blank calamusoid chip which requires around 400ped hunt in the swamp.If you do for example C1 in 4 people, you would have to split the LP80 perfected 4 ways or do 4 C1s so that everyone gets one. Repeat some steps in the ladder. Now, how cheap should that LP80 be from my perspective so that's worth farming and selling?

so to prove your point that the lp-80 perf is easy to obtain, you go on a rant explaining how difficult it is to obtain, but even if we skip all these limiting factors, if ANYBODY could just do the entire thing, at the very begining you say

1st you need a regular LP80 which contains redulite so from the start is going to be expensive

and if you remember, my requirement was:

It's not true that the only way is to deposit large amounts in order to do anything. That is a shortcut, yes, but there are other factors that are much more important in order to constantly profit.

if there are other factors which according to you, have MUCH more impact into wheter or not somebody profits, why would you be AGAINST better limited guns, which have higher efficiency and higher dpp then your weapon, and are easy to obtain ?

if a the mayhem vendor sold L gear for tokens, but the L weapon costed you 10k mtokens, so with current pillprices this would be aprox 3.5k ped, then my expectation would be, that the gun at least is going to last for me spending 200k ped, but if ontop of the cost it actually breaks after 10k ped spent, then this wouldnt be an example of a strong L gun thats easy to obtain and is comperable to your UL weapon, it would be an example of useless shit that nobody is buying becouse its useless

They would also kill the whole other crafted series and looted series of existent weapons. All of this because an insignificant number of players don't want to buy a weapon from another player or farm it long enough. Makes perfect sense to you to change the whole game just so you can have cheap ass top weapons...

and this is the GG statement, you are arguing for my position, the UL gear that is available kills the market of anything that can be craftedor looted, becouse the UL weapons are SO MUCH BETTER, ontop of that, UL means it never breaks, so there is never going to be a time where you go back to buying a weapon from the market, that is a part why the economy is fucked, you using by far the highest dpp, eff, and dps weapon, and it costs you nothing, it costed you an intial investment a long time ago, but ever since then, your contribution to the economy is you selling shit, and buying dmg enhancers

All of this because an insignificant number of players don't want to buy a weapon from another player or farm it long enough

AMEN BROTHA, i couldnt have said it better

i will repeat my position, i am arguing that the way L and UL is atm, L weapons are too far behind what UL offers, you dont get ahead by hunting anymore, becouse using L is just too unprofitable, to get ahead, it is a requirement to get yourself a decent UL weapon, knowledge only gets you that far, and i will repeat what eves position is

The ability to profit is not given by the weapon you're using. The weapon helps you but it's still on you to do your homework and get better prepared

there has to be a balance between L and UL , the markup will come from looting L weapons , or craffting L weapons, the UL weapons will drop in value, becouse they wont be as importaint to hunting anymore if you have viable alternatives, but if the weapons you loot and craft are shit, ofc they wont have any markup, the people who will have the money will buy an UL weapon, and those that cant afford it, are doomed to fail

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

surely.

Wow did you guys see that !?

The master has spoken.
And he spoke to me in person.
It's only a word, a single word, but it has so much meaning, it contains all the truths..

The master cast his gaze full of love and compassion on my insignificant being.
I feel blessed !

Ô lord, I am not worthy.
My eyes having known only darkness, I am now blinded by the sparkling brilliance and infinite grandeur of your knowledge.

I cannot bear the weight of reality.
Leave me alone,
I promise I'll buy your Success Story book as soon as you've written it,
probably titled something like: "How I got rich in Entropia by depositing only $250k".

Peace my Lord.

 

[messi91]

The master has spoken.

You spoken, I responded to your words.

 

[moondog]

here is something thats really funny, you are from a soceity named "Stockholm Syndrome", and thats exactly how i would describe your attitude, youve been beaten over the head that UL items are good so much you started to belive it
there are so many contradicting claims made by everybody who is arguing against L weapons atm, the issue i have is, when i make a long toughtout response to each claim made, it is just ignored, and let me be clear, this isnt stupidity thats going on, its dishonesty, the reson these people are saying the things they do is becouse they understand adding viable limited gear into the game comes at the expense of their UL weapons, meaning, these people will argue against any change that could improve the game, if it lowered their markup, this isnt a good or bad thing, i can understand why people do it, but thats why they make say the things they do

here is one of the obvious cotradictions


the L gun that stands out in eff and dpp from all the rest, sold only 9ktt per month, for a markup of 230%, and this raises no red flags in eves head about my criteria, that these weapons need to be "easy to obtain"

Yes, I am from a society called Stockholm Syndrome. I am not sure what our name has to do with this conversation. I can assure you I have not been beaten over the head with anything.

When I first started playing, I made a lot of mistakes and lost quite a lot of money, before I started to realise that if you want to improve at the game, you have to watch and where you can emulate the play of those above you. They are successful for a reason and many do not share information at all. Sounds to me like you are a lazy mouthy t**t who would do better to go off and read up about this game instead of being here spouting inane BS.

If you think the weapon is too expensive then dont buy it. No one is making you. How old are you anyway 12 ?

 

[Evey]

i will repeat my position, i am arguing that the way L and UL is atm, L weapons are too far behind what UL offers, you dont get ahead by hunting anymore, becouse using L is just too unprofitable, to get ahead, it is a requirement to get yourself a decent UL weapon, knowledge only gets you that far, and i will repeat what eves position is

there has to be a balance between L and UL , the markup will come from looting L weapons , or craffting L weapons, the UL weapons will drop in value, becouse they wont be as importaint to hunting anymore if you have viable alternatives, but if the weapons you loot and craft are shit, ofc they wont have any markup, the people who will have the money will buy an UL weapon, and those that cant afford it, are doomed to fail

Your position is still petty clear. You're not lookign to work your way up from what you can afoard atm, you only want the best weapon, that's better than current best weapons, to drop on regular mobs, very often , just so you don't have to risk absolutely anything or pay anything to anyone. If it's common drop and available to anyone but better than my mod nano t10, isn't that like everyone has an UL weapon runnign around not needing anything else?

I will repeat also - you should aim for stuff you can afoard man, asking for cheap version lambo available to anyone just so you can drive one will not get you the results you think it will. You're arguing that the entire game needs to change just so it's absolutely free, risk free, close to 0 effort to play the end game. Wtf broke ass game is that? Where's the challenge?? 0 risk, 0 work, 0 effort = 0 reward. Oh right you want them to come up with completely new content and MU from thin air. Then other threads will be made how that new MU and content is too expensive for lazy people and that lazy people are not included
You only have 2 options, keep dreaming or start working. But you definitely need a mentor!

 

[Goldenboy24]

heres a question for you eve, if you were using L gear, what setup would you use, and what would you hunt with it on caly, and what would be your expected tt return and markup, compared to your UL weapon

and then if you want, you can tell me also, in a perfect world, what would you change about L weapons, if anything

 

[Angela Draniie Cloud]

Well I know one thing. People have been buying UL weapons. In fact many have been bought since the twen token vendor came in the game. And guess what, the vendor has dropped the prices of MANY weapons in the game.

A camo arms bgh has sold just in the last couple days, I know of a much newer player who completely changed how they play when twen tokens came into the game, went from a sweater all the way to using a camo TWEN.

That’s just the people who’ve told me. But the fact that even happened at least twice since twen started is impressive.

That’s not even counting me switching from tt pistol to lr-40 twen in 3 years.


People do buy weapons though

 

[Goldenboy24]

youre right, you can make the game more accesable by either adding strong L gear, or by making UL gear so common that everybody gets a gun, sooner or later prices will drop, but when it comes to pricing in EU, nobody wants to lose money on their investment, i see alot of people selling rings that droped 6 years ago, demading the same price they were worth back when they droped, and maybe they get lucky, and some sucker apears who knows nothing about the game and buys the ring, but it also creates this attitude towards changes, if a change would be good for the game, but would make some people lose money, all those people will argue against the change, they dont have the games longevity in mind

hopelesness is also the fealing im geting, it doesent matter how valid of a point i have, things wont change, so why even bother mentioning it, but i think just from reading this thread, its the messege the status quo wants to sell you, stop talking about this becouse nothing will change.. if that were truly the case, they wouldnt of bothered coming to this thread, trying to defend their assets, there wasent one single good point brought up, and constant contradictions in what they belive

 

[RT_Tony]

using L is just too unprofitable, to get ahead, it is a requirement to get yourself a decent UL weapon,

stop saying this as a statement, it just isnt true, at all.

 

[Goldenboy24]

tell me what you would expect to happen, if all the current L gear that is commonly used, like the armatrix weapons, chips that you loot, enigmas, if these weapons would have their eff increased to 90, and their dpp increased to 3.8

 

[PreyNaika]

tell me what you would expect to happen, if all the current L gear that is commonly used, like the armatrix weapons, chips that you loot, enigmas, if these weapons would have their eff increased to 90, and their dpp increased to 3.8

I expect people to ask for 100 effi weapons with 4.5 dpp for free, limited but repairable for nanocubes and shrapnell 102 Rate

 

[Goldenboy24]

I expect people to ask for 100 effi weapons with 4.5 dpp for free, limited but repairable for nanocubes and shrapnell 102 Rate

you can try to engage with my question if you feal so confident, but i got a fealing, you cannot, you will find some exuse not to engage

 

[Art Jennifer]

Why you lot engaging with bronzeboy24….. She clearly has no idea about this game…

 

[Goldenboy24]

imagine that i would disagree with somebody so strongly as you do with me, and my response wouldnt be adressing anything he said, but asking how old he was, or why he picked a stupid name, or other irelevant questions, wouldnt that kinda show you that my response to his ideas would just be an emotional response ?
emotional in the sense of, "i dont like what you are saying, but i cant explain why, you have a poopy butthole, and you are balding, hihihi"

 

[PreyNaika]

youre right, you can make the game more accesable by either adding strong L gear, or by making UL gear so common that everybody gets a gun, sooner or later prices will drop, but when it comes to pricing in EU, nobody wants to lose money on their investment, i see alot of people selling rings that droped 6 years ago, demading the same price they were worth back when they droped, and maybe they get lucky, and some sucker apears who knows nothing about the game and buys the ring, but it also creates this attitude towards changes, if a change would be good for the game, but would make some people lose money, all those people will argue against the change, they dont have the games longevity in mind

hopelesness is also the fealing im geting, it doesent matter how valid of a point i have, things wont change, so why even bother mentioning it, but i think just from reading this thread, its the messege the status quo wants to sell you, stop talking about this becouse nothing will change.. if that were truly the case, they wouldnt of bothered coming to this thread, trying to defend their assets, there wasent one single good point brought up, and constant contradictions in what they belive

I am one of those "suckers who knows nothing about the game"
Bought a "sucker" Ring Set, and some other "sucker" items
Now i get "sucker" returns...
Thats why my "sucker" ped card keeps constantly Growing without selling any of those "sucker" items

See... you need to do some sort of "investment" in order to profit
Let this investment be peds,know how or time...
Dont expect this game to be easy or cheap,

Me as one Person alone did bring over 400.000 ped into this game thats why this game survives and others dont

 

[jwestonmoss]

Opinions of price do not matter. The market will always speak for itself.

this is the only answer that matters

 

[RT_Tony]

this is the only answer that matters

its far easier to let emotions speak than to take time to reflect and do some maths unfortunately, those threads will never end

 

[Goldenboy24]

i see alot of people selling rings that droped 6 years ago, demading the same price they were worth back when they droped, and maybe they get lucky, and some sucker apears who knows nothing about the game and buys the ring,

I am one of those "suckers who knows nothing about the game"
Bought a "sucker" Ring Set, and some other "sucker" items
Now i get "sucker" returns...
Thats why my "sucker" ped card keeps constantly Growing without selling any of those "sucker" items

do you even read what i am saying ? all you remmebered from my response is that i used the word sucker, but the context was completely lost on you, i will explain it more clearly to you then, there is alot of players, who at one point might have paid 10k ped for an item, and now their mindset is, that this item is worth 10k ped forever, and they will be selling this item, 6 years later, for 10k ped, ignoring all the other items that have been added into the game that are much better for the same price, becouse nobody wants to lose on an investment made

Evey said:
Wrong again, like you're wrong in pretty much any of your points. This is not from Mayhem. When you're selling something - is it your business what the buyer does with the purchase, if they profit? The ability to profit is not given by the weapon you're using. The weapon helps you but it's still on you to do your homework and get better prepared. Good Ls exist, cheaper ULs exist, rentals exist, pick what suits you best.

i agree here completely, if somebody makes a bad purchase, it is on them, that said however, if a player only has a choice between alot of shit weapons, he can still make a good choice, but that good choice will still turn out to be a bad choice, becouse all the choices were bad, the correct choice was, deposit and buy UL, this is a flaw in games design

See... you need to do some sort of "investment" in order to profit
Let this investment be peds,know how or time...
Dont expect this game to be easy or cheap,

you are not reading what i am writing at all, i have been arguing since the begining, that if you use L, you are put in sucha bad position when it comes to making profit, that the only correct "choice" you have, is to deposit, buy good UL gear, and then you can compeete, by you saying that you deposited, you are making my point, if you dont deposit, you still might find some niche somewhere, but you will have to generate probably 3% more markup, that is unreasonable, and it is the reason why the 2.0 guns are worth that much, becouse L gear is almost worthless

Me as one Person alone did bring over 400.000 ped into this game thats why this game survives and others dont

how much did you whitdraw ? does not have to be the exact number, i am only curious

 

[Goldenboy24]

this is the only answer that matters

the market tells the story that you should get high eff weapon, which none of the L ones are, and if they have high eff, they are extremly difficult to get, having extreme markup, making them useless, my solution to this problem is, make L guns higher eff, all these people arguing against me, have not yet said why it would be a bad idea, so give your toughts on this

tell me what you would expect to happen, if all the current L gear that is commonly used, like the armatrix weapons, chips that you loot, enigmas, if these weapons would have their eff increased to 90, and their dpp increased to 3.8

 

[jwestonmoss]

its far easier to let emotions speak than to take time to reflect and do some maths unfortunately, those threads will never end

don't get me wrong. there are definitely some very expensive UL items i would LOVE to have. but there's plenty of low to mid range stuff within my reach.

you just can go through life worrying about why things aren't fair all the time. it's exhausting and pointless. the world is what it is, and it works. work within the framework you have for the best outcomes. fair is a value judgment, and even if we had the power to flip a switch to make the world fair, the question would be "fair based on what"? based on hours played? on how well liked the player is? age of the avatar? why would any of those be more "right" than "people who deposited the most" or "people who learned the game well enough to maximize their earnings"?

TLDR: the game is what it is, we'll all be happier of we accept what we cannot change and do the best with what we have. and that's just as true of real life

 

[jwestonmoss]

the market tells the story that you should get high eff weapon, which none of the L ones are, and if they have high eff, they are extremly difficult to get, having extreme markup, making them useless, my solution to this problem is, make L guns higher eff, all these people arguing against me, have not yet said why it would be a bad idea, so give your toughts on this

i would say that price reflects player sentiment, and player sentiment is a function of perceived efficacy and value

MA makes no significant additional money from the MU value of UL weapons when they change hands especially in private trades

they could create a line of L weapons tomorrow that have 85%+ eff and it would radically alter the pricing landscape for not only UL but other L weapons

this is why armatrix are so well liked. they are the best line among L weapons currently. better than many UL weapons. the uber-high-eff UL weapons will always be valuable unless or until L weapons of similar eff arrive.

something attachments of various types already contribute to an effective efficiency score, so that's something.

 

[Goldenboy24]

i would say that price reflects player sentiment, and player sentiment is a function of perceived efficacy and value

the players operate in a world that mindark creates, if all the good weaponsa re UL, the UL guns will be valued accordingly, i am arguing make L guns compettiive to what the UL guns provide, more playes having acess at sucess, without a need to invest 5k$

MA makes no significant additional money from the MU value of UL weapons when they change hands especially in private trades

i am completely fine with only auction trading existing

they could create a line of L weapons tomorrow that have 85%+ eff and it would radically alter the pricing landscape for not only UL but other L weapons

alter pricing of L and UL how, explain what you think would happen

this is why armatrix are so well liked. they are the best line among L weapons currently. better than many UL weapons. the uber-high-eff UL weapons will always be valuable unless or until L weapons of similar eff arrive.

armatrix, are one of the worst choices you can make, espcialy when you go above 45s, the break fast, and have insane markup for how quick they break, using armatrix almost guarantees failure

 

[jwestonmoss]

well it would say it is pretty clear that as L weapon eff increases the relative value proposition of super-high-eff ul weapons decreases. it will never make them TT food, but the prices would come down. how much is anyone's guess.

but i wouldn't expect to see anything like that happen.

i had a suggestion a while back that could be tweaked for balance to shake up the L/UL landscape. drop L blueprints for armor durability improvers, an L item that is consumed to imbue its TT value into the TT of the item in question (like, for instance, that texturing/coloring does to clothing and furniture). works even on L items. balance the drop rate of the BP and the materials required to taste. could give some players who can't afford big UL weapons a closer experience while still keeping crafters in the loop.

 

[thee pepe]

Once again another thread has turned into a show.

You don’t like the price of something don’t buy it. This goes for anything in life, this game included.

If a Ferrari cost 20$ everyone would drive a Ferrari.
Then Ferraris would no longer be fast. Because the avg speed is equal.


There is a saying in magic the gathering. And I think it will apply well here also, it goes “ to have good cards, you also have to make bad cards.”

 

[jwestonmoss]

“ to have good cards, you also have to make bad cards.”

The duality of man

 

[Goldenboy24]

it seems like we have a very similiar aproach, i know its alot of reading, thats why i keep repeat my position, i want a balance between L and UL, the reason UL gear is so expensive is becouse anybody who wants a shot at profit in hutning needs to have it, L is just not competitive enaugh, create better L weapons, something that is stronger then UL, prices of UL will drop, the UL will still be importaint, but it wont be necasary