Question: 350% Higher Withdrawal Fees Than Posted on Website?

Captain Jack

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My typical withdrawal is 10K PED. This is because there is a 1% charge on all withdrawals, with 100 PED being the minimum charge.



Recently I audited my withdrawals and noticed that, rather than receiving $990 (after the 1% withdrawal fee) I have been receiving $965, after which my new bank (which I was forced by MA to open an account with since they changed their bank and now we can't withdraw through most banks in the U.S.) charges an additional $15 incoming international wire transfer fee. This means I end up with only $950 in my account, a loss of 5% total.

I thought this was Chase's fault, perhaps charging me twice, so I called their customer service line. They assured me that they only received $965 from the sending bank.

So I then verified my withdrawal amount on the Entropia Universe website, sure enough it was 10K PED. I then verified the withdrawal fee advertised on Entropia Universe FAQ section, and it stated 1%. So I should be getting $990 sent to Chase Bank, but I am only receiving $965.

Where did the other $25 go? It wasn't a bank fee on my end.


Update 12/03/2019

I called Chase Bank and spoke to their Wires team (if you bank with Chase please note their business hours are different than the Checking team). There were no 3rd party banks the money was going through, it was going directly between MindArk's bank and Chase bank. There is, however, an administrative issue going on here.

MindArk's bank has an account with Chase bank and they have an internal agreement which basically permits them to do debits from their Chase account rather than actually wiring the funds every time. MA's bank needs to put "OUR" under Field 71A in order for the fee not to be charged to the recipient. I will contact Support and request that they inform their bank to update that field, and will update here when I get results.

Update 12/11/2019

Hi,

When we send a withdrawal we always pay OUR banks fee but never the possible fee for the recipient.

This has been the case since we started. It is also described when you are making a withdrawal from your PED card in the FAQ on our website.

Your bank charge you this fee, which is not unusual - as it is a payment from abroad and they have administration because of this.

Kind regards,
William, Entropia Universe Support - Economy
So it seems I'm shit out of luck here. I'll start exploring other banking options and see if there's one that doesn't result in MA's bank forwarding additional fees that are hidden from my end. Suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Update 05/12/2020

Update: I got a tip from another player about the bank they are using to withdraw. I opened an account with that bank and tried to follow their instructions for receiving international wire transfers. Their instructions require a "further credit" line for account number and name of account holder, and Support has thus far not been helpful in resolving the issue...]
Half a year later and still no way to withdraw without paying 5% to do so.
 
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MikeH

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I notice there is a 25$ deduction in my withdrawals i believe its the fees bank charges MA for sending money. And about the 1% thing i see they charge 1% from PED card when we request withdrawal and again charges 1% on the amount which is being sent to our bank.

Lets say i request 10k ped (1000 $) withdrawal
first it will charge 1% (100ped) from PED card
second it will charge 1% (10$) from the amount which is being sent so you should get 990$ instead of 1000$
but again they charge 25$ flat (i believe its the fees MA needs to pay the bank for outgoing transaction)
so you should get 965$ (1000$-10$-25$) if you bank don't charge for any incoming transaction.
 

Darth Revan

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What did you normally receive prior? Has it been the same all the time and you just noticed now?
Or has this changed since you had to change banks?
 

Captain Jack

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I notice there is a 25$ deduction in my withdrawals i believe its the fees bank charges MA for sending money. And about the 1% thing i see they charge 1% from PED card when we request withdrawal and again charges 1% on the amount which is being sent to our bank.

Lets say i request 10k ped (1000 $) withdrawal
first it will charge 1% (100ped) from PED card
second it will charge 1% (10$) from the amount which is being sent so you should get 990$ instead of 1000$
but again they charge 25$ flat (i believe its the fees MA needs to pay the bank for outgoing transaction)
so you should get 965$ (1000$-10$-25$) if you bank don't charge for any incoming transaction.
These fees need to be disclosed on the website BEFORE withdrawing, not left to be discovered after.
 

MikeH

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These fees need to be disclosed on the website BEFORE withdrawing, not left to be discovered after.
I have seen the $25 charge in all my withdrawals its not new but i agree they need to mention that too . and in withdrawal page i see they mention " Note: additional charges may be levied by your bank."
but they should also mention " Note: additional charges may be levied by our bank." too.
 

mastermesh

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My bank says they'll charge 40 usd for international wires, which is what they consider a transfer from Mindark.

In the past we have had identity theft issues as well, and part of me has a gut feeling Mindark or the third party they use may well have had something to do with that, and quite possibly is part of the reason so many places don't do transfers with Mindark as used to a few years back?
 

Ace Flyster

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Arent those your bank fees, not from MA. MA have no control over what each bank will charge. So they cannot say that when you initiate the withdrawal. Completely separate to MA.

Rgds

Ace
 

Captain Jack

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Arent those your bank fees, not from MA. MA have no control over what each bank will charge. So they cannot say that when you initiate the withdrawal. Completely separate to MA.

Rgds

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No, my bank fee is $15 which hits AFTER the money is sent to my bank account. There is $25 that is unaccounted for.
 

Mac Farmer

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Lmao . You are paying 25$ to your bank and blaming MA on this or my math is bad

1000 withdraw make 990 $ usd and you got 965$ so that is 25$ that your bank take not MA

I also got near 10$ on top on my withdraw last time and its def my bank take them not MA
 

Mac Farmer

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No, my bank fee is $15 which hits AFTER the money is sent to my bank account. There is $25 that is unaccounted for.
Again what is going on whit your math ? You pay 10$ to MA and 15$ to bank you say . But you are mising 35$ ... So in the end you are crying about 10$ or 25$ ??

I have online banking and i know every cent that is going or coming and i can sure you all the extra fees you may get are from your bank and not MA
 

Mac Farmer

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Now lets talk whit facts . This is what i got for 9870 ped withdraw !

ZV-MINDARK PE AKTIEBOLAG (PUBL) ENTROPIA UNIVERSE WITHDRAWAL BNY CUST RRN -, GPP Ref.: , 971.00 USD,

So my bank charge me near 7 $ in top of 10$ of ma getting . I am happy whit it
 

unufain8

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GxB

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Again what is going on whit your math ? You pay 10$ to MA and 15$ to bank you say . But you are mising 35$ ... So in the end you are crying about 10$ or 25$ ??

I have online banking and i know every cent that is going or coming and i can sure you all the extra fees you may get are from your bank and not MA
his maths is fine and you should maybe stop drinking.
 

pechunter

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Ever notice a decrease in returns after a withdrawal?
 

SonicHero1

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I thought this was Chase's fault, perhaps charging me twice, so I called their customer service line. They assured me that they only received $965 from the sending bank.
i seriously wonder if people can not read ...

make a riot but have zero plan ...

my sympathy jack
 

Captain Jack

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Again what is going on whit your math ? You pay 10$ to MA and 15$ to bank you say . But you are mising 35$ ... So in the end you are crying about 10$ or 25$ ??

I have online banking and i know every cent that is going or coming and i can sure you all the extra fees you may get are from your bank and not MA
Okay let me spell it out for you.

10000 PED withdrawal = $1000 USD in the beginning.

MindArk's fee of 1% comes off the top during the initial withdrawal request, resulting in $990 remaining.

This means that my bank, Chase, should be receiving $990 and then charging their $15 fee, which would result in me receiving $975 in the end.

That is not what is happening.

What is happening is Chase is receiving $965 and then charging their $15 fee, resulting in me receiving $950 in the end.

The difference between the $990 which Chase should receive, and the $965 they are actually receiving, is $25.
990 - 965 = 25 (please use a calculator if you don't believe me)

It is that $25 I am trying to track down.
 

K_rupT

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Okay let me spell it out for you.

10000 PED withdrawal = $1000 USD in the beginning.

MindArk's fee of 1% comes off the top during the initial withdrawal request, resulting in $990 remaining.

This means that my bank, Chase, should be receiving $990 and then charging their $15 fee, which would result in me receiving $975 in the end.

That is not what is happening.

What is happening is Chase is receiving $965 and then charging their $15 fee, resulting in me receiving $950 in the end.

The difference between the $990 which Chase should receive, and the $965 they are actually receiving, is $25.
990 - 965 = 25 (please use a calculator if you don't believe me)

It is that $25 I am trying to track down.
Might want to check your new banks hidden fees. Maybe you have the monthly charge of $25 just for having an account
 

mg Joda VVV

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Call MA"s bank.

Good chance there are fee's on the recieving end of either u that chase doesnt specify or on MA's banks side for the US using a antiquated bankin system.
 

Joat

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Is it MA -> Chase -> you, or is it MA -> MA bank -> Chase-> you?
 

Captain Jack

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UPDATE:

I have been given a transcript of the wire transfer from MindArk's end. I will be taking that to Chase bank on Monday to find out where the disconnect is and update here when I find out.
 

Mac Farmer

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UPDATE:

I have been given a transcript of the wire transfer from MindArk's end. I will be taking that to Chase bank on Monday to find out where the disconnect is and update here when I find out.
No shit LMAO .. Its easy to blame on MA
 

Ino

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UPDATE:

I have been given a transcript of the wire transfer from MindArk's end. I will be taking that to Chase bank on Monday to find out where the disconnect is and update here when I find out.

Why couldn't you wait until Monday before opening 2 threads with slander?
 

Captain Jack

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Why couldn't you wait until Monday before opening 2 threads with slander?
There are two reasons I didn't wait until Monday before opening a thread about this.

First, I wanted to solicit information from the community in case anybody else has experienced this. This approach was previously recommended to me by the Support department for other issues. To this goal this thread has been very productive and I have received some valuable insights.

Second, prior to making this thread I had already contacted my bank and retrieved all the information I was able to with the information I had at the time, and was therefor at a dead end. It was not until after the creation of this thread that I received amplifying information which I will use to follow up with my bank for additional information.

A note on slander; That was never the purpose of either thread. The purpose of this thread is to solicit information from the community. The purpose of the other thread is to express frustration regarding the changes in banks that was made by MindArk, and refer back to this thread as one additional example of the hassle caused by the change.
 

Ino

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There are two reasons I didn't wait until Monday before opening a thread about this.

First, I wanted to solicit information from the community in case anybody else has experienced this. This approach was previously recommended to me by the Support department for other issues. To this goal this thread has been very productive and I have received some valuable insights.

Second, prior to making this thread I had already contacted my bank and retrieved all the information I was able to with the information I had at the time, and was therefor at a dead end. It was not until after the creation of this thread that I received amplifying information which I will use to follow up with my bank for additional information.

A note on slander; That was never the purpose of either thread. The purpose of this thread is to solicit information from the community. The purpose of the other thread is to express frustration regarding the changes in banks that was made by MindArk, and refer back to this thread as one additional example of the hassle caused by the change.
In my early entropia days around 2007 I had a similar issue with a 70$ fee on withdrawal which neither MA nor my bank said they took it. I've escalated the issue with my bank and found out that my bank was working with another bank to process international transfers so the withdrawal process was MA->MA Bank->Unknown bank-> My bank and the unknown bank took the 70$ processing fees. The Unknown bank used by my bank to process the transfer had nothing to do with MA but my bank didn't acknowledge this until I've escalated the issue, they kept saying that this how much we received we didn't took the 70$ go ask the sender.
 

Captain Jack

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In my early entropia days around 2007 I had a similar issue with a 70$ fee on withdrawal which neither MA nor my bank said they took it. I've escalated the issue with my bank and found out that my bank was working with another bank to process international transfers so the withdrawal process was MA->MA Bank->Unknown bank-> My bank and the unknown bank took the 70$ processing fees. The Unknown bank used by my bank to process the transfer had nothing to do with MA but my bank didn't acknowledge this until I've escalated the issue, they kept saying that this how much we received we didn't took the 70$ go ask the sender.
That is the kind of thing I am starting to hear about, and precisely the reason I opened this thread when I did. Having heard so many people with this story, I am guessing my story will turn out very similarly.
 

flipflap

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That is the kind of thing I am starting to hear about, and precisely the reason I opened this thread when I did. Having heard so many people with this story, I am guessing my story will turn out very similarly.
you did well to highlight this problem, it will allow us to better understand it and perhaps to find a solution.
 

Zayka

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I can confirm this issue. Noticed 25$ additional fee in this year but dont have any problem with it, hope my lovely MA took it, not bank!:cool:
 
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