FYI: A reasonable price?

[Nisha]

Lol

I have started a group on EF to combat crappy sweat prices. I implore all newbies to not sell for less than 10 PED per thousand units. If you wish to join the social group, click the link in my siggie.

Seriously, it takes much longer than before and 10 PED is only fair. DO NOT give in to greedy fuckers who offer 4.5 PED per k.

Hm. Interesting!




If I take the offer seriously, I can get quite a bit of money for my 1k sweat.

If, however, I assume that there is an error then this is just 4.5 ped per k, is it?

 

[StatikNode]

The prices fluctuate. Deal with it. Deposit otherwise.

 

[Rotorian]

Hello, I am new and I approved this message :

I am not looking to get rich of a game (sorry Mr Universe Designer).

I am looking to trade for noob armor and weapon.

Or Maybe be a supplier for below "market value" as long as you are willing to buy all I get , regardless.

Forget my ingame name though......I'll find out if the download ever finishes...again :|. You can PM in the forums if ya like.

Oh, and I may be cheap (you wont know until we negotiate), but I sure as hell aint easy .

 

[Karv]

The problem here is: It is a market, where no one has an Idea about investing, time efficiency or something else market specific... ok, let's not say "no one" let's say "almost no one"... Who would work in real life for .30€/U$ per hour? And if it would be 1€/U$ per hour it would make 8 per day, 240 per month... lol...

Let's see it from a different side with an prominent example: WoW... World of Warcraft... you HAVE to pay 12€ per month to play. What you get out is: nothing... In EU you don't need to pay anything, you just need your time... if this game is fun, play it, if not, don't do it. Money is a thing you'll get back - every month or sooner or later, depends on your job... Time is a precious thing that is lost for ever.

Let's assume 10k players that invest 10€ in EU. That would be 100k - respective 100k minus fees, paying employees, some other money that won't stay in EU, etc., whatever. It's an entropy - what does this mean? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entropy - simple... you put something in and get something out, but will divided by everyone. Because some stuff will get lost, you'll never get out more than you put in. Promotion, publicity, propaganda - whatever - would get in more money that could be divided amongst the players - where is it? This system is running as long as enough money is in - if not, they can simply shut everything down - you'll get your money refunded (the maximum you'll get is TT price) and that was it. You can NEVER get out more than you put in - you can JUST redistribute resources - these resources have NO real economy value - it ONLY has personal value - this value is made up of offer & demand, personal values, personal time and money, etc., etc., whatever else. If you have luck, a good system running or a good position (investing money in EU that you won't get back (i.e. land areas etc. - worth of a deed is zero) and you have players or whatever there that are interested in it), then you'll redistribute money from others to you - otherwise it will be the other way, or you have luck and get something or more than you invested back. No one will cry about 10/100€ that he/she will lose in a year (or more - depends on the person), but if you calculate 9k people that lose in effect 900k € where (let's assume MA will get 400k of this cake) 1k people will get 500k (so in effect 500€ per person), then you know why this system is running. It's a game of luck with low stakes but the chance of a mid-high stake is everywhere. If you do it correctly, you can get a living with it (until it's turned off or something else happens). If everyone would do it correctly, everyone would lose in this system.

 

[soridus766]

Came back here curious as to what's new lately... and I have to LOL at this thread.

Prices should be based as compensation between people who actually have interest in the deal.

Trying to defend it with your ideals of who should get what based on what they do IRL or based on the company or whatever is bull hockey. And it is double bull hockey if you aren't a sweater or sweat buyer in the first place.

Buyers tend to want things for less, sellers tend to want more, and you cut a deal between yourselves. Talking about people getting off their ass and getting a job for real to make $10 is hypocritical, contrary, and irrelevant bullcrap.

Thank you for your time, have a nice day!

 

[Iceman]

its the laws of supply and demand mate.
if people will sell cheaper people wont just offer higher prices.
there is too many n00bs so....sucks for them, lol sorry.
theres also this thing called investing $??
idk, it may sound like this strange new thing to u....

 

[soridus766]

its the laws of supply and demand mate.

Exactly. I'm saying let this law work. You can't call it supply and demand anymore if you are bringing other things into the equation, such as a persons real life work habits or willingness to invest.

People have a right to buy at 4ped per k if that is what they think it is worth. They have a right to buy at 6 per k if that's what they think it is worth.

Whether or not they are noobs shouldn't enter into the equation. Whether they can just deposit shouldn't enter into the equation. What the company wants to do especially doesn't enter into the equation because they should be more than capable of handling their business and doing something about it if they do start to lose money. It is not our business to run the company's finances for them. It is only our business to pay or not pay.

 

[Aeris_is_back]

Tired of the price of sweat?

Stop bitching and deposit, Trust me you will like it on this side.

 

[Stutoman]

This thread has been inactive for 5 months, this conversation is outdated.

 

[GoNi]

This thread has been inactive for 5 months, this conversation is outdated.

rofl, why is it outdated?

Its the same discussion that comes up again and again, since I started with EU.

What is the difference in starting a new thread about sweat price or just necro an old one?

BTW, for all those that think sweating is to earn money, damn get a job!

Sweating is for gaining some basic skills, mainly evade and other defence skills that help you getting started with hunting.

Beside that it builds intelligence and Agility, what contribute to your HP.

For some people sweating is just skilling cheap, those do it right!
For those who sweat to earn money: You waste more money on your electricity bill than your gathered sweat will be worth, no matter if the price is .3 or .7

 

[kwirl]

people buy sweat? i had heard this was a rumor lol - btw people SWEAT CIRCLES! i heart efficiency?

 

[GoNi]

people buy sweat? i had heard this was a rumor lol

Some really do that

- btw people SWEAT CIRCLES! i heart efficiency?

[/quote]
very efficent!
Important on that technice is enough people, soone standing outside the circle, so that mob never gets the idea running out of circle in order to attack someone.

therefor learn Olegs lession 1: don´t sweat at Nea´s or at least if at Nea´s move away from the main group.

Lession 2: same counts for swamp camp

at those two locations the mobs run around like crazy, attacking different sweaters, therefor you often got a target lost interception.
Next problem at those locations, are that sweaters that never learned that standing still is much better (even if beeing attacked), those moving sweaters often move in your sweating line, intercepting aim and result is target lost interception (very anoying!).

Maybe time to write a new "How to sweat tutorial"

 

[soridus766]

rofl, why is it outdated?

Its the same discussion that comes up again and again, since I started with EU.

What is the difference in starting a new thread about sweat price or just necro an old one?

BTW, for all those that think sweating is to earn money, damn get a job!

Sweating is for gaining some basic skills, mainly evade and other defence skills that help you getting started with hunting.

Beside that it builds intelligence and Agility, what contribute to your HP.

For some people sweating is just skilling cheap, those do it right!
For those who sweat to earn money: You waste more money on your electricity bill than your gathered sweat will be worth, no matter if the price is .3 or .7

Bahaha. Funny.

Time can only be spent once. And I assure you I have $10 to deposit if I felt like it. It's my business if I want to 'waste my time sweating', not yours.

Also I pay for internet and electric regardless of if I'm sweating or foruming or playing <whatever>. It's my business, you have NO say in it. I already have an income, I don't need to earn anything in this... game. I only do it because I want to.

 

[LeWolf86]

Dont bitch about sweat prices...

Sweat is a product of ME.... its also a product that is acquired for free....

The price of sweat is simply attached to the demand for it.... when you have 100 people sweating 1k every 1-2hrs.... and maybe 50 people buying 1k every 1-2hrs... you start to grow an abundunce of supply.

Before VU10 sweat prices crashed due to border bug with so many people abusing it.... that was that reason.... Natural sweat drop comes from low demand high supply.


Like many people said.... just put 1hr of your work income into EU and you can leave sweating behind, or at least cut out a lot of time from it.

If you dont like sweating 8hrs for 10-30ped (I dont sweat dont know what you make)... then dont do it...



I use to be on the side of sweaters and how price drop killed them... but I realized if you dont like sweating and hate the price... dont do it.... I do it occasionally when Im bored... but never do it to long or I get bored .... If Im bored I dont enjoy playing... if I dont enjoy playing I dont.

 

[TargFree]

Bahaha. Funny.

Time can only be spent once. And I assure you I have $10 to deposit if I felt like it. It's my business if I want to 'waste my time sweating', not yours.

Also I pay for internet and electric regardless of if I'm sweating or foruming or playing <whatever>. It's my business, you have NO say in it. I already have an income, I don't need to earn anything in this... game. I only do it because I want to.

Soridus,

I could not have said it better myself.

I know more than a few depositors that still sweat to offset some of the losses they incure from doing other things (hunting, mining, crafting). Some sweat in between deposits. I guess those depositing players need to get a job too if we prescribe to the theory that people who sweat means you lack a job to pay for playing this game.

I suppose I better make this comment short as everytime i get into this debate someone with a half thought out.. err.. theory will pop their head up and say something that needs to be corrected.

Simple, answer to them. People sweat for their own reasons. If you think making 12.5 cents an hour is too much for sweaters to get then maybe you should write your local congressman or what ever political representive that represents you and complain.

 

[saintvio]

May be something like an Entropia Sweat Fund is needed!

whats needed is for non depositors to realize they are free loading and shut up about how much work it is for them to free load.

 

[LeWolf86]

For all the people getting angry about them free loading.... its hardly costing MA much IMO.... think about it.... whats sweat worth on the system?
10,000 = .01pec? If not less?

Thats hardly a drain on MA pockets.... Take $10 out of MA reserve and how much sweat you think you'll have??? A boat load TT worth...

Anyways like I said previously... dont bitch... if you dont like prices... then change your source of income for playing either deposit or trade or suck it up and sweat or do menial tasks....

ATM sweat is worthless because demand for it cant match the supply of so many people sweating.... cross your fingers that MA brings back more ME usages.... but prices wont change much still unless they bring in some new sort of ME usage that is crazy.

 

[Epacs]

Whats peoples opinion when Mindforce comes back in its fullness?
I'm no economist but I would expect an increase in mindessence?
thus potential increase in sweat?




Also input on the cost of sweat, from my experience .5 per hunderd I think is acctually a fair price for free money, so 5Ped per 1000? 50c per 1000? to be fair 2000 gets you a dollar. A FREE dollar. Now people still buy at 5 Ped, people still want to buy at 4.5 simply because people buy at 5PED, its not wrong, but it is wrong when newbies are misinformed. If they are willing to sell that low, its their choice, but its also their right to know they are selling below market value. Ussualy these people don't last long, I know I didn't 1 year ago trying to make good deals in the end it just makes you give up.

 

[LeWolf86]

but it is wrong when newbies are misinformed. If they are willing to sell that low, its their choice, but its also their right to know they are selling below market value. Ussualy these people don't last long, I know I didn't 1 year ago trying to make good deals in the end it just makes you give up.

5PED is just some # that all the sweaters want to keep hardlined... the fact of the matter is... just like everything else... market value is the price in which a buyer pays for sweat... market value in normal items is tracked and kept records based on auction sales... and depending on supply and demand fluctuates up or down...

Sweat is just like these products although no real MV chart... but supply of sweat is massive... demand is not... in reality and as Ive heard... sweat prices have dropped since long time ago...

5PED per 1000 is sure maybe the hoped price.... but its not what most people want sweat for... the people who want to buy big amounts of sweat aka probably the main buyers and possibly resellers are the people who will pay under 5PED because 5PED anyone will sell... its not hard to get sweat at 5PED because everyone wants 5PED.... its going below that to see who will sell which will determine the price.... if you go out and offer 4PED... and no one sells... you can say MU is not 4PED.... if you go and offer 4.5PED and a few people sell then you can probably be happy saying sweat is worth 4.5PED... if you get more between 4.5-4.9... then you can get a better idea still of the real value.... Asking for 5PED all the time is dumb... unless you have a guy buying frequent at that rate.... its not hard to find sweat sellers... its hard to find sweat buyers... thats what sellers need to remember when they ask for a price....

 

[Kujo]

price will always be base on supply and demand. people have always been arguing about the sweat price but these arguments never lead to anything.

supply and demand !!

you can call buyers greedy for wanting to pay low just as you can call sellers greedy for wanting more. but in the end the price will be set according to how much sweat is needed and how much is out there. Only one that can change things is the creators of the game.

- just my humble oppinion

 

[Dollymaus]

sweat is really overpaid at 40 pec/1k

if i hunt or craft or whatever i loose very easily 20 ped/hour, if i sweat i gain 1 ped hour ---> i easily make 21 ped/hour

but usually i earn more, because its to easy to loose more than theese 20 ped/hour

 

[Svenn]

A "reasonable price" is whatever people are willing to pay that someone will sell to them for. If people are selling at 4.5PED/k, well then it must be worth it to them. Sure, we all wish we could get more for our sweat, but if someone is willing to sell lower we have to keep up with them.

That's how a free market works. I'm sorry, but because you want more for your time doesn't mean you can just attempt to fix prices to your liking. People are selling at the current price and happy with it, so the price is going to stay, or even drop. In fact, it will continue to drop until it hits a point where no sellers are willing to go lower.

 

[LeWolf86]

A "reasonable price" is whatever people are willing to pay that someone will sell to them for. If people are selling at 4.5PED/k, well then it must be worth it to them. Sure, we all wish we could get more for our sweat, but if someone is willing to sell lower we have to keep up with them.

That's how a free market works. I'm sorry, but because you want more for your time doesn't mean you can just attempt to fix prices to your liking. People are selling at the current price and happy with it, so the price is going to stay, or even drop. In fact, it will continue to drop until it hits a point where no sellers are willing to go lower.

Bingo.... thats why IRL everything has floating rates.... stocks/commodities and all that crap are priced by supply and demand.... its very simple economics.... sweat shouldn't be any different as Ive said... and its so stupid (and I believe I preached in the past for sweaters... I was young though ) that they want to try to price fix an item that is easily acquired by anyone, most people have to much, and most people dont need much.

 

[thoreau]

price will always be base on supply and demand. people have always been arguing about the sweat price but these arguments never lead to anything.

supply and demand !!

Supply and demand doesn't really work with things like Vibrant Sweat.

The law of supply and demand works best when applied to perishable goods like bread. Bread is a product that both the seller wants to sell (or it will spoil) and the buyer wants to buy (or he will go hungry.)

Because bread gets moldy if it sits around the seller needs to move the product. If supply gets too great they must lower the price or otherwise they will lose the product due to spoilage.

Also, the buyer will increase the offer price for the bread as demand (hunger) increases.

The meetings point between these two is where the market price is.

However with Vibrant Sweat its different.

The seller doesn't have to sell the sweat. It doesn't spoil. They can just put it into storage. In fact, we see this all across Calypso. Players are sitting on hundreds of thousands of bottles of sweat with no intention of selling until the price reaches some level. If supply affected price sweat would be almost free right now.

And buyers have options too. No player is going to die because they can't buy Vibrant Sweat. Its a optional product that makes life a little easier. Mindforce has been missing for some time now and yet the lower demand seems to not have affected the price of sweat as much as one would expect.

Why? Because the price of Vibrant Sweat isn't driven primary by supply and demand. Its driven by habit.

Sweat sold yesterday for .5 pec a bottle. So players expect the price to be the same today. If sweat sells for that same price then players will expect the same price the next day. Over time, they becomes the expected price of sweat. Not determined by supply and demand but rather by history.

So why does the price fluctuate?

From time to time a player may want a fast transaction. Due to the need for a quick sell the player may be wiling to sell/buy at a price higher/lower than the historic value. The players involved may continue to offer to buy/sell sweat at the out-of-sync value for a few days. The word gets out - other players try to get this price - and if they're successful a new historic price is set.

 

[LeWolf86]

Very good points, but to bring supply/demand back to sweat.... if you have 100 noobies trying to sell sweat in Neas and 1 person buying.... then you will see that supply far exceeds demand for that period (usual occurrence) and thus the price yesterday of .5/1k has no weight because the buyer will be able to test the free market and he will be able to offer as little or as much as he wants... and because supply exceeds demand its usually assumed that price will drop to match the demand price.

Of course the opposite can be said to be true also... if there are 100 buyers and 1 seller... the seller is free to test the buyers prices and get the price he wants... the price of .5/1k yesterday will have no meaning for the new price will be set when the sale occurs....

If price trend could be tracked we would see a downward slope easily as most people pay less the .5... and there are some that pay .5... but the higher sales at below .5 would drag the price down resulting in a lower and lower price.... until people stopped sweating because the price got so low it became not worth it... and then only then there might be a chance for demand to increase potentially past supply and cause price to increase.... but that will never happen because even at 1PED/5k someone will sweat for that 1PED.

Many players in EU sit on many things hoping prices will come up.... and every so often it happens... but usually trend for most things other then crafting supplies have a trend to move downwards....

Supply and demand doesn't really work with things like Vibrant Sweat.

The law of supply and demand works best when applied to perishable goods like bread. Bread is a product that both the seller wants to sell (or it will spoil) and the buyer wants to buy (or he will go hungry.)

Because bread gets moldy if it sits around the seller needs to move the product. If supply gets too great they must lower the price or otherwise they will lose the product due to spoilage.

Also, the buyer will increase the offer price for the bread as demand (hunger) increases.

The meetings point between these two is where the market price is.

However with Vibrant Sweat its different.

The seller doesn't have to sell the sweat. It doesn't spoil. They can just put it into storage. In fact, we see this all across Calypso. Players are sitting on hundreds of thousands of bottles of sweat with no intention of selling until the price reaches some level. If supply affected price sweat would be almost free right now.

And buyers have options too. No player is going to die because they can't buy Vibrant Sweat. Its a optional product that makes life a little easier. Mindforce has been missing for some time now and yet the lower demand seems to not have affected the price of sweat as much as one would expect.

Why? Because the price of Vibrant Sweat isn't driven primary by supply and demand. Its driven by habit.

Sweat sold yesterday for .5 pec a bottle. So players expect the price to be the same today. If sweat sells for that same price then players will expect the same price the next day. Over time, they becomes the expected price of sweat. Not determined by supply and demand but rather by history.

So why does the price fluctuate?

From time to time a player may want a fast transaction. Due to the need for a quick sell the player may be wiling to sell/buy at a price higher/lower than the historic value. The players involved may continue to offer to buy/sell sweat at the out-of-sync value for a few days. The word gets out - other players try to get this price - and if they're successful a new historic price is set.

 

[zelldot]

I is a simple fact of supply and demand, because demand is low, due to only having teleport chips, and so much supply, the price of sweat is expected to me low, to combat this is simple, MA needs to bring back MF and other things that involve sweat.

 

[kangaroos]

what is the price of sweat now?
4 ped?
hope its worth sweating