A Request for the Power of This Community!

[Kiriku Surgun]

I disagree
When there are just 10 customers, every individual is very important.
When there are 10 million customers, you will become (not/not so) important.


So voting will actually damage us
can't you see?

 

[Wed]

I disagree
When there are just 10 customers, every individual is very important.
When there are 10 million customers, you will become (not/not so) important.


So voting will actually damage us
can't you see?

So in your opinion MA shouldnt promote EU at all? and why fix the bugs that makes ppl unable to login, the less we are the better, right? Hope not many agree with this point of view..

Well my orginal point was.. either vote.. or dont vote, but dont bash the thread with VU relatade crap, there are plenty of thous thread around already. And my other point is that whiners are whiners, and nothing will make em happy anyways

 

[HardWrath]

Pretty simple. If they can't be arsed to engage in proper communication and responsiveness to help us, they cannot expect us to help them.

If you don’t feel that growing the Entropia Universe in 2010 when this all will have been fixed is of importance then don’t help him however that doesn’t mean it’s ok for you and others to try and undermine John's efforts along with the future of the Entropia Universe.

What some of you are doing is fighting an active campaign against him. I’m sorry that you don’t see the difference between that and being a constructive member of the EU community.

It has been said before and I will explain once again, John Bates is not involved with game design, game programming, game development, bug fixes, or any of this other stuff. There is no reason that John Bates should be the lightning rod absorbing all of the negative feelings and reactions from VU10.0. If John were to go to his boss and tell him that he won’t do his job until they fix the bugs and enhanced game play then he would be FIRED

John Bates plays an important role at MindArk, yet as of this moment, he only has 38 total posts in the Entropia Forum. I think ALL of us agree that MindArk needs to do A LOT more with regard to communication and involvement with the EU player base. Diverting attention away from what it is that John is hired to do WILL NOT increase the amount of communication from him or his colleagues, in fact it will only do the opposite because it will discourage them from communicating in an environment where they only get assaulted by pissed off people.

How productive would it be for me to go to my local department store, go to the clothing department, and complain to the girl working there about a broken washing machine that was purchased in the appliance department? How productive would it be for me to stand there and have an epic tantrum which only prevents her from doing her job? Not only would it not be productive, she would probably think that I am a crazy person and she most likely (at least for that day) would have a pretty sour attitude regarding customers in general.... thats assuming that security didn’t tackle me and haul my ass out of the store.

There is a time and a place for everything in life, this thread is not the time or the place for epic tantrums about things that John is NOT involved in. He is trying to do something productive and beneficial for the Entropia Universe as a whole and his function in MindArk is totally separate from what it is that we are upset about.

 

[Wed]

If you don’t feel that growing the Entropia Universe in 2010 when this all will have been fixed is of importance then don’t help him however that doesn’t mean it’s ok for you and others to try and undermine John's efforts along with the future of the Entropia Universe.

What some of you are doing is fighting an active campaign against him. I’m sorry that you don’t see the difference between that and being a constructive member of the EU community.

It has been said before and I will explain once again, John Bates is not involved with game design, game programming, game development, bug fixes, or any of this other stuff. There is no reason that John Bates should be the lightning rod absorbing all of the negative feelings and reactions from VU10.0. If John were to go to his boss and tell him that he won’t do his job until they fix the bugs and enhanced game play then he would be FIRED

John Bates plays an important role at MindArk, yet as of this moment, he only has 38 total posts in the Entropia Forum. I think ALL of us agree that MindArk needs to do A LOT more with regard to communication and involvement with the EU player base. Diverting attention away from what it is that John is hired to do WILL NOT increase the amount of communication from him or his colleagues, in fact it will only do the opposite because it will discourage them from communicating in an environment where they only get assaulted by pissed off people.

How productive would it be for me to go to my local department store, go to the clothing department, and complain to the girl working there about a broken washing machine that was purchased in the appliance department? How productive would it be for me to stand there and have an epic tantrum which only prevents her from doing her job? Not only would it not be productive, she would probably think that I am a crazy person and she most likely (at least for that day) would have a pretty sour attitude regarding customers in general.... thats assuming that security didn’t tackle me and haul my ass out of the store.

There is a time and a place for everything in life, this thread is not the time or the place for epic tantrums about things that John is NOT involved in. He is trying to do something productive and beneficial for the Entropia Universe as a whole and his function in MindArk is totally separate from what it is that we are upset about.

Couldnt agree more

+rep

 

[sledgehammer]

If you don’t feel that growing the Entropia Universe in 2010 when this all will have been fixed is of importance then don’t help him however that doesn’t mean it’s ok for you and others to try and undermine John's efforts along with the future of the Entropia Universe.

What some of you are doing is fighting an active campaign against him. I’m sorry that you don’t see the difference between that and being a constructive member of the EU community.

It has been said before and I will explain once again, John Bates is not involved with game design, game programming, game development, bug fixes, or any of this other stuff. There is no reason that John Bates should be the lightning rod absorbing all of the negative feelings and reactions from VU10.0. If John were to go to his boss and tell him that he won’t do his job until they fix the bugs and enhanced game play then he would be FIRED

John Bates plays an important role at MindArk, yet as of this moment, he only has 38 total posts in the Entropia Forum. I think ALL of us agree that MindArk needs to do A LOT more with regard to communication and involvement with the EU player base. Diverting attention away from what it is that John is hired to do WILL NOT increase the amount of communication from him or his colleagues, in fact it will only do the opposite because it will discourage them from communicating in an environment where they only get assaulted by pissed off people.

How productive would it be for me to go to my local department store, go to the clothing department, and complain to the girl working there about a broken washing machine that was purchased in the appliance department? How productive would it be for me to stand there and have an epic tantrum which only prevents her from doing her job? Not only would it not be productive, she would probably think that I am a crazy person and she most likely (at least for that day) would have a pretty sour attitude regarding customers in general.... thats assuming that security didn’t tackle me and haul my ass out of the store.

There is a time and a place for everything in life, this thread is not the time or the place for epic tantrums about things that John is NOT involved in. He is trying to do something productive and beneficial for the Entropia Universe as a whole and his function in MindArk is totally separate from what it is that we are upset about.

The gist I get from this statement is: eat the shit sandwich, be a cheerleader or stfu, and the customer is the weird one for getting upset. Nice. Now, in the real world where I live, if a pissed off customer walks in, they get directed to management immediately, and if they don't get the job done, they bring in the owner.
Now the owner of my company is a very powerful man. He is a self made billionaire, and can make just about anything happen with a well placed phone call. Yet he makes the time every time it is required of him to deal with these things personally. He does this because he is a good businessman, and understands the power of reputation.

Contrast that with what we have to undergo in EU, and then come talk to me.

Now under one circumstance, where MA was responding thoughtfully to their customers, and working with us to fix serious issues (vu10.0 aside!), then participating in SXSW would be something I'd wholeheartedly support. This is not reality, though, and as long as MA wants to treat us like dirt, I'm not going to encourage them to further drown out our voices.

 

[HardWrath]

The gist I get from this statement is: eat the shit sandwich, be a cheerleader or stfu, and the customer is the weird one for getting upset. Nice.

No that’s not what I said. What I said was this thread is not the place for your rants. Also, I think that people would have a hard time calling me a "Cheerleader", especially after some of the support cases I have sent along with the comments inside. I throw barbs at MindArk all of the time however I am also constructive and don’t endlessly bitch and moan at every opportune moment.

Before VU10.0 MindArk prepared us for a possible rocky start with this. Anyone who has been in EU for any length of time knows that sometimes after a big VU update there are BIG problems that are frankly very stupid problems to have. Furthermore, MindArk has made several comments that indicate that they CLEARLY understand how upset people are and they have explained that they are working as fast as they can to fix things and reintroduce features.

What can be done IS being done. MindArk cant just wave a wand and make everything perfect.

Now, in the real world where I live, if a pissed off customer walks in, they get directed to management immediately, and if they don't get the job done, they bring in the owner.

Well in this example you arent exactly "walking in" and complaining. You are ranting and flailing around on an independently owned fan site which is visible to the public and has no connection to MindArk at all. If you wanted to "walk in" to complain then you would either send in a support case or call MindArk directly. Their phone number is published on their website. By doing that you would give them the opportunity to satisfy you or not.

What you are doing is harassing one of their employees and interfering with their business operations. There is a big difference between that and bringing a complaint to the company.

Now the owner of my company is a very powerful man. He is a self made billionaire, and can make just about anything happen with a well placed phone call. Yet he makes the time every time it is required of him to deal with these things personally. He does this because he is a good businessman, and understands the power of reputation.

Contrast that with what we have to undergo in EU, and then come talk to me.

Here is some contrast for you

MindArk is a small company that does not have hundreds of millions of dollars or billions of dollars along with the clout that comes with riches of that size. They don’t have the resources to instantaneously sort through and edit all of that code... they have a FEW programmers on the job and they are no doubt working their asses off trying to get it done as soon as possible. Any time MindArk employees try to communicate and reason with the EU community they get pounced on by individuals such as yourself who cannot be reasoned with. Your boss takes the time to handle things personally because he knows that he can probably bring resolution to the issue at hand whereas MindArk probably knows that anytime they try to level with the EU community they just get flamed for it. Thus they don’t communicate anymore which only compounds our problems.

Furthermore, if a totally unreasonable person/customer was interfering with the business operations of the company you work for, while harassing the employees, and flaming the shit out of them on the internet then your boss would probably sue their ass off.

Now under one circumstance, where MA was responding thoughtfully to their customers, and working with us to fix serious issues (vu10.0 aside!), then participating in SXSW would be something I'd wholeheartedly support. This is not reality, though, and as long as MA wants to treat us like dirt, I'm not going to encourage them to further drown out our voices.

They have responded, several times... weren’t you paying attention? Also how exactly are they going to "work with us" in fixing serious issues? Are we going to write the code for them? Tell me exactly how WE can fix this. MindArk has to fix it, not you or me. There is no point in them communicating things step-by-step because they will just get flamed and berated for it.

They know the problems, they know what has to be fixed in what order, and they are working on it.

If individuals such as yourself were more constructive and more reasonable then perhaps MindArk would be more inclined to have open dialog regarding the development and planning of the Entropia Universe.

Until we can have a constructive atmosphere that is conducive to open dialog, all we can do is sit here and wait for things to be announced.

 

[AlphaGeek]

I think the point, Hardwrath is:

MA wants to be a leader in this sector of business.
Unfortunately, a leader must have happy, willing followers. Right now a fair chunk of MA/FPCs followers aren't happy.

Without pointing down the road to far dates in the future and promises of substantial (or insubstantial) things to come, today and VU 10.0 in all its glory is all the followers of MA and FPC have.

Good leaders don't bully, beg, intimidate, or bribe. They don't have to do these things.

 

[sledgehammer]

No that’s not what I said. What I said was this thread is not the place for your rants.

Since when is reasonable voicing of opinion considered ranting?

Also, I think that people would have a hard time calling me a "Cheerleader", especially after some of the support cases I have sent along with the comments inside. I throw barbs at MindArk all of the time however I am also constructive and don’t endlessly bitch and moan at every opportune moment.

Fine, you're not a cheerleader in every case, but neither am I a whiner. I'm not trolling the forums waiting to say "THIS SUCKS!" at every corner, but I will call b.s. every time I see it, and I have given quite extensive defense on my reasoning here without "rantin" or "flailing".

Before VU10.0 MindArk prepared us for a possible rocky start with this. Anyone who has been in EU for any length of time knows that sometimes after a big VU update there are BIG problems that are frankly very stupid problems to have. Furthermore, MindArk has made several comments that indicate that they CLEARLY understand how upset people are and they have explained that they are working as fast as they can to fix things and reintroduce features.

Yet when someone sends a support case for a specific and serious problem, i.e. the inaccessable claims, they get the "Mindark is not responsable..." drivel.

What can be done IS being done. MindArk cant just wave a wand and make everything perfect.

No, but they can take the time to explain themselves, and perhaps address individuals' issues when they come along, instead of the perpetual blackbox tactics.

Well in this example you arent exactly "walking in" and complaining. You are ranting and flailing around on an independently owned fan site which is visible to the public and has no connection to MindArk at all. If you wanted to "walk in" to complain then you would either send in a support case or call MindArk directly. Their phone number is published on their website. By doing that you would give them the opportunity to satisfy you or not.

If they're going to ignore us, it will be out in the open for people to see them doing it.

What you are doing is harassing one of their employees and interfering with their business operations. There is a big difference between that and bringing a complaint to the company.

I thought you said this was an independent fan site?

Here is some contrast for you

MindArk is a small company that does not have hundreds of millions of dollars or billions of dollars along with the clout that comes with riches of that size. They don’t have the resources to instantaneously sort through and edit all of that code... they have a FEW programmers on the job and they are no doubt working their asses off trying to get it done as soon as possible. Any time MindArk employees try to communicate and reason with the EU community they get pounced on by individuals such as yourself who cannot be reasoned with.

And this is our fault that the corporate executives didn't give the programmers proper time to code the game correctly, leaving their customers with a shoddy, incomplete platform?

Your boss takes the time to handle things personally because he knows that he can probably bring resolution to the issue at hand whereas MindArk probably knows that anytime they try to level with the EU community they just get flamed for it. Thus they don’t communicate anymore which only compounds our problems.

He communicates and gets involved because he knows that failure to do so is what brings about flaming, and even angrier customers.

Furthermore, if a totally unreasonable person/customer was interfering with the business operations of the company you work for, while harassing the employees, and flaming the shit out of them on the internet then your boss would probably sue their ass off.

No, he'd set a meeting with them to address the matter, and make it right. I know because I've seen him do it.

They have responded, several times... weren’t you paying attention? Also how exactly are they going to "work with us" in fixing serious issues? Are we going to write the code for them? Tell me exactly how WE can fix this. MindArk has to fix it, not you or me. There is no point in them communicating things step-by-step because they will just get flamed and berated for it.

They have given us very little dialogue (though the little that has been given has been cheered, then ceased altogether). At issue is their refusal to do so when we see a real issue, granting the precious few exceptions.

They know the problems, they know what has to be fixed in what order, and they are working on it.

Yet somehow they fixed the issue with the coloring of my hair before users with advanced nvidia systems can even log in.

If individuals such as yourself were more constructive and more reasonable then perhaps MindArk would be more inclined to have open dialog regarding the development and planning of the Entropia Universe.

Until we can have a constructive atmosphere that is conducive to open dialog, all we can do is sit here and wait for things to be announced.

The moment they start responding to us, it becomes constructive, that very instant.

 

[JaKst3r]

Blah blah more drivel

Are you still posting in this thread? Most of us are off trying to loot SGA items....

I hope you sent some support cases with as much info..

 

[safara]

Are you still posting in this thread? Most of us are off trying to loot SGA items....

I hope you sent some support cases with as much info..

I think Sledge has some very valid points.

If the Sales Rep for FPC wants his customers to support his efforts, then it would be nice for FPC to support their customers.

I know that things are progressing, but it seems we have a shakey conduit to the powers that be about our concerns, hence the pseudo hijack of this thread. It is just possible that the Sales Rep has a better line of communication to the powers that be, than us, the customers.

The bottom line is, that only happy customers are going to activly support a Sales effort. And, as it stands at the moment, there are many that have issues that need addressing before they feel able to get behind a Sales drive.

I would imagine that this request would garner a lot more support once some issues have been worked through and resolved. The "Power of this Community" is more concerned at the moment with actually getting ingame and staying ingame for the moment.

 

[HardWrath]

Sledgehammer, why exactly are you still posting? You don’t feel that you made your point in your 15 prior posts in this thread?

At this point it’s clear that you want to crucify MindArk at any opportune moment even if it means standing in the way of any kind of forward progress in any front imaginable. Everything has to stop so Sledgehammer can get his way.

Myself, I try to look logically at the big picture, I try and follow my thoughts and ideas through to conclusion before sharing them, and I try to understand the long term strategy before making a judgment. When I have a major issue with something MindArk is or is not doing, instead of going on a rant about it, I come up with an idea that could be a solution and then I present that idea either in private to MindArk or here in the open on the forums.

You on the other hand look at only what is in front of your face and if you don’t like what you see, you throw a tantrum and flop around on the floor kicking and screaming until you get your way. Nothing else matters until you get your way.

It seems silly and childish but essentially that is what you are doing. You are trying to stand in the way of future success which not only affects MindArk but it affects me and every other person who has money and time invested in the EU.

At this current stage in the Entropia Universe MindArk does not have the capacity to flawlessly roll out a large and comprehensive update without bugs and problems, much less do it when introducing an entirely new game engine. Little things like what John Bates is trying to do here could change that. Combined with other things, the increased business will give MindArk the wherewithal to roll out cleaner VUs, fix bugs faster, improve the EU economy, and introduce new features sooner.

There is a consensus among the vast majority of the EU community that the single biggest problem in the Entropia Universe is the lack of communication from MindArk and I can guarantee you that what you are doing in this thread does not help that problem. Just think of someone in your life who always complains.... you just ignore them and dismiss most of what they say.

Many people have a lot of money tied up in the Entropia Universe and many of us have been in the EU for many years. Myself I have been here for almost four years. Within the community we all agree that MindArk (like any company) is not perfect and we don’t hesitate to beat them over the head with their mistakes however because we continue to deposit and continue to participate in the Entropia Universe it’s obvious that we believe in the vision of this virtual universe and we trust that MindArk will be successful and here for the long term. Because we keep giving MindArk money and we keep investing our time and energy, I guess overall, you could call us "supporters". Because I am a supporter of this Virtual Universe I voted for all three items to be discussed at SXSW. As a supporter, I feel that I have done my part by encouraging others in my society to vote and I also have come to this thread to end this persistent and unproductive MA bashing.

If you really want to continue this debate, please create a new thread in the General Forum and stop hijacking this thread.

 

[safara]

Oh, and I will vote, as any efforts that increase the playerbase is a good thing. The game needs new blood continually to boost revenue, otherwise this revenue gets taken from the few that play. The more that deposit, the greater the spread.

But I can fully understand that there are those that are frustrated at the moment, and things like these are far from their mind.

Bad timing really for this request.

 

[sledgehammer]

Sledgehammer, why exactly are you still posting? You don’t feel that you made your point in your 15 prior posts in this thread?

At this point it’s clear that you want to crucify MindArk at any opportune moment even if it means standing in the way of any kind of forward progress in any front imaginable. Everything has to stop so Sledgehammer can get his way.

Myself, I try to look logically at the big picture, I try and follow my thoughts and ideas through to conclusion before sharing them, and I try to understand the long term strategy before making a judgment. When I have a major issue with something MindArk is or is not doing, instead of going on a rant about it, I come up with an idea that could be a solution and then I present that idea either in private to MindArk or here in the open on the forums.

You on the other hand look at only what is in front of your face and if you don’t like what you see, you throw a tantrum and flop around on the floor kicking and screaming until you get your way. Nothing else matters until you get your way.

It seems silly and childish but essentially that is what you are doing. You are trying to stand in the way of future success which not only affects MindArk but it affects me and every other person who has money and time invested in the EU.

At this current stage in the Entropia Universe MindArk does not have the capacity to flawlessly roll out a large and comprehensive update without bugs and problems, much less do it when introducing an entirely new game engine. Little things like what John Bates is trying to do here could change that. Combined with other things, the increased business will give MindArk the wherewithal to roll out cleaner VUs, fix bugs faster, improve the EU economy, and introduce new features sooner.

There is a consensus among the vast majority of the EU community that the single biggest problem in the Entropia Universe is the lack of communication from MindArk and I can guarantee you that what you are doing in this thread does not help that problem. Just think of someone in your life who always complains.... you just ignore them and dismiss most of what they say.

Many people have a lot of money tied up in the Entropia Universe and many of us have been in the EU for many years. Myself I have been here for almost four years. Within the community we all agree that MindArk (like any company) is not perfect and we don’t hesitate to beat them over the head with their mistakes however because we continue to deposit and continue to participate in the Entropia Universe it’s obvious that we believe in the vision of this virtual universe and we trust that MindArk will be successful and here for the long term. Because we keep giving MindArk money and we keep investing our time and energy, I guess overall, you could call us "supporters". Because I am a supporter of this Virtual Universe I voted for all three items to be discussed at SXSW. As a supporter, I feel that I have done my part by encouraging others in my society to vote and I also have come to this thread to end this persistent and unproductive MA bashing.

If you really want to continue this debate, please create a new thread in the General Forum and stop hijacking this thread.

Hardwrath, you are continually name calling, and accusing me of being the childish one. Somewhat ironic, no? I am continuing to post because I continue to see poorly conceived arguments against my original point.

The constructive thing that could be done is what so many of us have suggested time and time again, which is open dialogue.

Now part of open discussion is point, and counterpoint. You seem to disagree with this idea, but I prefer to have the ability to defend my statements when they are challenged.

I also have quite a bit of time and money invested in this game. So you having time and money invested does not automatically invalidate my point.

We can agree that having more players is good for all of us, but the problem arises when you have 2000 sweaters In the game, but all of the depositors have cashed out due to sheer frustration.

Besides, those new players won't stick around if the current attitude from MA doesn't change. And then it'll just be you and me again, arguing about whether or not MA should go to the next convention.

 

[Xander Catman]

I've voted on your topics John.
2 thumbs up.

And 1 thumb up for Deathy.

 

[HardWrath]

Hardwrath, you are continually name calling, and accusing me of being the childish one. Somewhat ironic, no? I am continuing to post because I continue to see poorly conceived arguments against my original point.

Highlighting your behaviors in a colorful way is hardly name calling.

The constructive thing that could be done is what so many of us have suggested time and time again, which is open dialogue.

I want open discussion between the company and the players just as much as anyone however, lack of dialogue between MA and the player base isn’t the only problem in EU that needs to be addressed.

Instead of standing in the way of progress in other needed areas, such as marketing the EU to the world, here are some examples of constructive ways to discuss this topic:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...erse-development-planning-advisory-board.html

Others also have similar or contrasting ideas which are here:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...am-political-system-possibility-entropia.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-discussion/158207-new-way-go.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-discussion/158020-entropia-government.html

Now part of open discussion is point, and counterpoint. You seem to disagree with this idea, but I prefer to have the ability to defend my statements when they are challenged.

Umn, if I didn’t like point counterpoint discussion and debate I would not be going back and forth with you here. I love debate, even when I know I will lose the argument.

I also have quite a bit of time and money invested in this game. So you having time and money invested does not automatically invalidate my point.

I never said that your points arent valid, in fact I mostly agreed with what you said however what you fail to understand is that this thread is not the place for this debate.

We can agree that having more players is good for all of us, but the problem arises when you have 2000 sweaters In the game, but all of the depositors have cashed out due to sheer frustration.

Besides, those new players won't stick around if the current attitude from MA doesn't change. And then it'll just be you and me again, arguing about whether or not MA should go to the next convention.

I agree with you, player retention has been a weak point for MindArk for as long as EU has existed however this thread is not the place for that discussion. All you are doing is harming forward progress on other fronts.

Right now in this thread we have a MindArk employee that has come out of the woodwork and posted here on the EF and the first response of many is to flame the hell out of him, yet we wonder why MindArk fails communicate with us more?

The vast majority of the people who leave EU do it because of bad loot and the expenses involved with advancing in the game. With acceptable loot return, they would keep grinding away and keep depositing.

Let me explain something here, I’ll try to keep it simple and short but it is actually very complex. You will see why it is very relevant to what we are talking about.

The Entropia Universe is often misunderstood as a "zero sum" game which is a situation in which a participant's gain or loss is exactly balanced by the losses or gains of the other participants.

While the overall game loot payout is a direct reflection of what is put into the loot system, it is not a zero sum situation because MindArk always has to take their cut in order to pay for normal operating expenditures. As money flows between players and flows in and out of the loot system, MindArk takes their cut, also you have the players who habitually withdraw their in game income. These all drain money out of the game's economy.

Because there is always a substantial drain on the game economy, you NEED new money to be consistently introduced to the EU economy and this is accomplished when players deposit.

With any game, there is natural attrition which is the people who leave the game for whatever reason. Because of attrition, there always has to be a consistent influx of fresh new players who deposit. When the amount of depositing players leaving the game exceeds those that join the game, the result is horrible loot and a bad in game economy and this is the exact situation that we have had for awhile now.

In order for acceptable levels of loot return to be maintained, the amount of new money introduced into the game has to exceed both the amount that stops flowing in due to attrition along with the amount that is drained out of the system by the company and the players. What I am saying is that in order for loot to be good, the player base of the Entropia Universe has to be growing at a steady rate. When loot is good, players stay. When MindArk is very profitable they can afford a larger expendatures

MindArk has already revealed that they intend on marketing the Entropia Universe which is something they really have never done. Combined with MindArk's and FPC's marketing efforts will be the advertising campaigns of the Planet Partners and believe me, there will be pressure on them to attract new players. Marco is gonna shit when he sees how the player base of Calypso leaves to go to different planets. To a degree, Planet Partners will all be competitors among each other and competition is a good thing.

The steadily increasing player base will come soon and very soon you will have independent companies all contributing to the Entropia Universe. In September the first one is supposed to go live. With more players and more money in EU, many of our current problems will be solved but it is all dependant on the marketing efforts of the companies involved with EU. Because MindArk is making such a big deal out of the SXSW stuff, I assume that this is a vital component to part of their overall marketing strategy. Because you are trying to undermine it, you are actually undermining the entire Entropia Universe along with all of our monetary investments in this virtual world. Aside from improving the quality of game play, I would argue that the marketing efforts are the most important thing for EU but at the same time, the marketing efforts go hand in hand with increasing the quality of the game play.

Marketing efforts = More players
More players = More money in EU
More money in EU = More profits for the company
More profits = Larger payroll and development budgets
Larger payroll and development budgets = more programmers and developers
More programmers and developers = cleaner and more frequent updates
More updates = More features, less bugs, and better game play
Better game play = Less player attrition

On top of all of that, more money in the system = better average loot returns.

Because you have time and money invested in EU and because you probably plan on staying active for awhile, instead of trying to be a road block in this SXSW effort, please go to the website, register, and vote yes for the topics. Additionally, instead of you and I going back and forth in this thread, let’s take this energy to the DPAB thread where I could use some help fine tuning all of the details. Marco is subscribed to that thread and he is very interested in the subject matter. That is the ideal thread for point counterpoint debate.

Right now is the right time to be discussing communication from MindArk & FPC however this is not the right place. We need to do this in a different thread. The DPAB thread is a great place for it.

 

[sledgehammer]

Hardwrath, the math adds up, and I know it. I knew it before I made my first post in this thread. That, my friend, is the point.

Namely that their alienation of the entire customer base has forced those of us who continue to play to reach deeper and deeper into our pockets to foot the bill. I agree that events like SXSW can increase the customer (money) base for the game. However, this is only a band-aid for the real and far more prescient problem, which is, again, their refusal to engage us in dialogue. You say that Marco has subscribed to a thread. Great. So Marco doesn't discuss things with us. He sits and he waits.

The added customers as a result of SXSW will be an extremely short lived fix in any case. They will, in a short period of time, discover what we have, that MA refuses to be involved at the level that should be expected of them. Then the majority of them will move on to another game.

So now, John presents us with a vote. I've got no problem with John. From what I've seen from him in this thread, I actually think he's a decent guy, with a job to do, and an ear that listens. This is why I addressed my concerns here, since there's damn near no chance I'll get a response anywhere else. We can debate it amongst ourselves all we like, but until MA representatives get involved in that same debate, we're just blowing smoke.

I see this thread as an opportunity to draw them into the discussion, and perhaps stay there, instead of the ongoing nonsense they have been foisting on us heretofor.

That opportunity aside, I feel that unless Mindark wants to start listening to us, we shouldn't vote for SXSW. Perhaps they will wonder why we voted against them, and *gasp* ask us.

 

[sledgehammer]

By the way, Hardwrath, you asked for an idea on how to improve communication earlier. I was posting from my phone, so I just didn't have the time to give a proper response. Here it is.

John Bates should start a thread every week where he discusses issues with us. I say one week because after that amount of time threads tend to get overcluttered with junk. In fact, for the first month, it should be one a day, as we'll have much to discuss.

John could take the issues that seem to be important to us (the customers), and discuss them with the executives, and design team.

Then - here's the really cool part - he could tell us what they said in the meeting!

I suggest John because he's not a programmer, and he's not someone who is necessarily a decision maker as far as balancing, event creating, etc. goes. He's a salesman, and he can sell to both sides. He can sell Mindark's positions on their actions to us, and he can sell our suggestions, complaints, and concerns to them.

It will create a clearer line of communication between us and Mindark, where less of the important issues can get lost in the overall mix.

I would like that way more than SXSW.

 

[MindStar9]

Hardwrath summed it up quite nicely! ... I agree that there are several issues that could be discussed until we're blue in the face, and communication being priority #1 ... but I also agree with Hardwrath, that this is not the thread to have that discussion, nor cornering John in order to somehow accomplish your mission to get MindArk to respond in certain ways with the community.

Thing is ... I believe this community as a whole absolutely wants better communication from MA/FPC, and for a while there, we thought we were getting it, but it's far and few in between and needs polishing for sure. There are any number of threads at this forum since the release of VU 10 with perspectives and opinions with regard to what should or shouldn't have been done, but again ... this is not the thread to have these discussions.

That's what is not being understood here ... it's ok to have these discussions, but this isn't the right thread to do that, and backing John into a corner and basically demanding that he behave in a certain manner with management at MA/FPC is definitely not the way to facilitate action or change. If anything, it has the potential to alienate communication even more.

It's best to ... take this discussion where it can flourish and perhaps have a constructive value outside of a seeming attempt at impeding progress on John's part to actually do something quite good for our universe. Point, counterpoint is interesting and each of you have valid points, but again, I have to agree with Hardwrath here in that this is not the thread to do it in, nor in the manner it's being done.

EDIT:

Sledge? ... John is an advertising and marketing man, and not a community relations director, there are people in place with MA/FPC that handle these kinds of things, and they should be the ones who openly interact with this community more. I don't get why you are consistently pushing John Bates in the corner with this stuff. He basically came here to ask the community's support to get proposed topics on the agenda at SXSW to further benefit all of us. Why do you insist that he reorganize his priorities to support what you want when MA/FPC already have people to do this. You're barking up the wrong tree my dear, and should consider refocusing your efforts in the right place.










.

 

[sledgehammer]

Sledge? ... John is an advertising and marketing man, and not a community relations director, there are people in place with MA/FPC that handle these kinds of things, and they should be the ones who openly interact with this community more. I don't get why you are consistently pushing John Bates in the corner with this stuff. He basically came here to ask the community's support to get proposed topics on the agenda at SXSW to further benefit all of us. Why do you insist that he reorganize his priorities to support what you want when MA/FPC already have people to do this. You're barking up the wrong tree my dear, and should consider refocusing your efforts in the right place.

.

MS9, I don't think I'm speaking out of school when I say there is a huge portion of the population that wants communication first. And great, there are people that handle community relations. To what community are the relating? It damn sure ain't ours. John's here, John's talking, John's listening to us. That's waaaaay better than we've gotten anywhere else. I know John can't make changes, but the people who do will listen to him. And as far as asking us to vote for EU in SXSW goes, the two issues are connected. That makes this the right forum.

Edit: BTW, it's Customer relations, not Community relations. And he's the marketing rep, so customer relations is the definition of his job.

 

[Casay]

Bottom line is that we have a successful, fun, amazing, ground-breaking, trend setting, wonderful, fantastic and extraordinary thing here because of all of YOU who PARTICIPATE. "It's the community, stoopid!" Right? So, know that I think of you all the time and I thank you every day. I may not post a lot, but I make my own contributions.
Finally, I say: Thank you, thank you, thank you.

JKB

YEP! It is all about the community! We do appreciate you a ton, like I said in my other post your enthusiasm rocks! You're not only getting the brunt of the buggy VU but people like myself question some of the decisions that MA continues to make that effect us. I'm greatly upset that there was any press release at all. I've never vented so bad in a thread on EF to date.

The community seems to get what brings in new players and keeps them. I really wonder after seeing several bad things over the years if MA does.

On topic/
I'd love to attend the business meeting as none of the questions I'd ask/ answer are there. Other unmentioned game had the chance to do it but the complexity, lagginess, unintuitive controls and much more have pretty much stopped it in it's tracks. Deathifier is certainly successful in EU but for that it was more of a being in the right place at the right time. Yes, he manages it all well but it's not overall what I consider 'business' on-line per say. No one has still done what I envision.

For the who will control the metaverse... *Hiro of course or maybe Enzo? *

Question #9 - Are MMO's really social networks?
BINGO! They are first and foremost social networks! I also discussed with you in Vegas the importance of tangibility for people in 3D worlds. It's what grounds people into a community and keeps them coming back even after going other places. The key then is how to market to those people? People in 3d realms, whether MMO's or other kinds all have something in common. I've been shocked for years just how many people in this 'industry' have missed it. Why do you think I complain so much about 'some' people in MA's marketing/promoting team? They haven't a clue. I listened to them talk to the press and they themselves just don't get it! I guess I shouldn't have expected them to since they don't game at all and live in another realm. If they got it...well EU would be a different place.

#10 - How can I actually build a successful company on an MMOG?
1) Being the advertising company and properly doing it. (Greatly missed by MA!)
2) Build the 'brick and mortar' store .... no, not as tried in other place... many many reasons that failed!

Keep up the great work John. One day you'll really understand what I was trying to tell you in Vegas and see the light

Oh + rep for the balls to reply to all these ppl!

 

[HardWrath]

MS9, I don't think I'm speaking out of school when I say there is a huge portion of the population that wants communication first. And great, there are people that handle community relations. To what community are the relating? It damn sure ain't ours. John's here, John's talking, John's listening to us. That's waaaaay better than we've gotten anywhere else. I know John can't make changes, but the people who do will listen to him. And as far as asking us to vote for EU in SXSW goes, the two issues are connected. That makes this the right forum.

Edit: BTW, it's Customer relations, not Community relations. And he's the marketing rep, so customer relations is the definition of his job.

Sledge do you only hear and read what you want to hear and read? You talk as if MindArk never posts on the Entropia Forum and never communicates with us in any way. Do you realize that here on the Entropia Forum there is a feature to see every single post made by MindArk and FPC employees?

On the top right hand side, click on Search, on the menu that appears, click on MindArk/FPC posts. You will see that MindArk/FPC employees have posted in the EF 82 times this month in various threads, yet you choose to hijack this thread and hold this topic hostage. Why?

A few days ago there was something that I wanted MindArk to change, I did a search to see if there were related threads, I then created a thread with a poll attached. In the thread, instead of complaining and flaming I posted constructively and I put a poll on the thread. The next day, Marco discovered the thread on his own and posted a reply. Now a few days later, with the recent update, the change we requested has been implemented.

Here is that thread:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/wishlist/161034-petition-old-hof-global-sounds.html

There is example after example of how someone in the community posted constructively here on the EF, MindArk/FPC found the thread, read it, and took action.

There is no reason why John should have to channel our comments and ideas to both MindArk and First Planet Company when we have other people from both companies who are active in the Entropia Forum. Stop trying to redefine what John's job responsibility is and just let him do the job that he was hired to do.

What you have to understand is that while communicating with MindArk/FPC employees here on the EF, you are essentially talking to them "outside of work". The Entropia Forum is an independently owned website. Neomaven aka 711 owns this website. He does not work for MindArk, he plays EU just like the rest of us. MindArk and FPC employees do not have to post here, they don’t have to read our threads, and they certainly don’t have to respond to us here. There are other communication mediums that MA has made available. If you look at the time stamp of some of the posts made by them, you see that sometimes they are made at times when these people are out of the office and on their own time. When you flame the MindArk and FPC employees and hijack their threads here on a website they don’t have to be a part of, then you only discourage them from being involved with it more.

 

[MindStar9]

Excellent post HW ... you continue to nail it ... and I'm hoping that sometime soon, it will be understood that we're not saying that issues shouldn't be brought to MA/FPC's attention, just that there's a place and a constructive way to do it, and ... that they do post at this forum ... we'd like more, but the fact is (as HW pointed out) they do. It is not John's responsibility to field issues, and even if he did respond in this thread, any further interaction was quickly diminished or eliminated altogether as a result of how some treated him.

Start a new thread ... in the proper forum, and discuss your heart out, but this is certainly not the forum or the thread to do it, and ... I totally agree with HW again ... stop trying to rewrite John's job description. Take your issues to the proper source.

*gotta spread some more purple love around HW before I throw it your way again ...
and as JB says ... Rock ON*

 

[sledgehammer]

Sledge do you only hear and read what you want to hear and read? You talk as if MindArk never posts on the Entropia Forum and never communicates with us in any way. Do you realize that here on the Entropia Forum there is a feature to see every single post made by MindArk and FPC employees?

On the top right hand side, click on Search, on the menu that appears, click on MindArk/FPC posts. You will see that MindArk/FPC employees have posted in the EF 82 times this month in various threads, yet you choose to hijack this thread and hold this topic hostage. Why?

They only read and hear what they want to read and hear. You have nailed the issue on the head, if gotten slightly confused at the person to whom that statement should have been directed.

A few days ago there was something that I wanted MindArk to change, I did a search to see if there were related threads, I then created a thread with a poll attached. In the thread, instead of complaining and flaming I posted constructively and I put a poll on the thread. The next day, Marco discovered the thread on his own and posted a reply. Now a few days later, with the recent update, the change we requested has been implemented.

Here is that thread:

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/wishlist/161034-petition-old-hof-global-sounds.html

There is example after example of how someone in the community posted constructively here on the EF, MindArk/FPC found the thread, read it, and took action.

Yet the NVIDIA users can't get online. Good job with the sounds though. I'm sure the folks who can't even get online will appreciate them someday.

There is no reason why John should have to channel our comments and ideas to both MindArk and First Planet Company when we have other people from both companies who are active in the Entropia Forum. Stop trying to redefine what John's job responsibility is and just let him do the job that he was hired to do.

I'm suggesting something new. I haven't said that is his job, but it would be something that would be far more effective than asking us to vote on random stuff. The "Power of this Community" is bigger than that.

What you have to understand is that while communicating with MindArk/FPC employees here on the EF, you are essentially talking to them "outside of work". The Entropia Forum is an independently owned website. Neomaven aka 711 owns this website. He does not work for MindArk, he plays EU just like the rest of us. MindArk and FPC employees do not have to post here, they don’t have to read our threads, and they certainly don’t have to respond to us here. There are other communication mediums that MA has made available. If you look at the time stamp of some of the posts made by them, you see that sometimes they are made at times when these people are out of the office and on their own time. When you flame the MindArk and FPC employees and hijack their threads here on a website they don’t have to be a part of, then you only discourage them from being involved with it more.

What you have to understand is that they apparently don't have to read our support cases either. And if you're involved in any kind of real business in your rl at all, you'll understand that executives are at work 24 hours a day. There is no "timeclock" to punch. And again with the idea that they need to be handled with kid gloves. These are adults, and they are businessmen and women. They have responsabilities to their customers, and they're shirking them.

Excellent post HW ... you continue to nail it ... and I'm hoping that sometime soon, it will be understood that we're not saying that issues shouldn't be brought to MA/FPC's attention, just that there's a place and a constructive way to do it, and ... that they do post at this forum ... we'd like more, but the fact is (as HW pointed out) they do. It is not John's responsibility to field issues, and even if he did respond in this thread, any further interaction was quickly diminished or eliminated altogether as a result of how some treated him.

The proper place and constructive way to do it is here and now in the open. If we do things quietly, they get shoved underneath the rug. I'm done with quiet. So is a big portion of this community. We want to have discussion with them, so we're going to, one way or another.

Start a new thread ... in the proper forum, and discuss your heart out, but this is certainly not the forum or the thread to do it, and ... I totally agree with HW again ... stop trying to rewrite John's job description. Take your issues to the proper source.

This is the proper source because they other sources are not being handled properly. I really don't think there needs to be an explanation of this, unless you don't have to worry about these things. Do you have Marco's cell phone number?

 

[AlphaGeek]

John Bates should start a thread every week where he discusses issues with us. I say one week because after that amount of time threads tend to get overcluttered with junk.

Best idea on this entire forum to date. Pure frikkin' genius at work there, sledgehammer!


...must spread rep before awarding again... damn!

 

[HardWrath]

They only read and hear what they want to read and hear. You have nailed the issue on the head, if gotten slightly confused at the person to whom that statement should have been directed.

Do you have some kind of evidence to back up your claim? How can you claim to know what MindArk reads and does not read?

Yet the NVIDIA users can't get online. Good job with the sounds though. I'm sure the folks who can't even get online will appreciate them someday.

I am a NVIDIA user and I can log in just fine. However, MindArk has already explained several times that they are aware of the NVIDIA problem and they have people working with both NVIDIA and CryTek to resolve the issue. MindArk does not have magical powers. Sometimes problems cannot be fixed instantaneously.

I'm suggesting something new. I haven't said that is his job, but it would be something that would be far more effective than asking us to vote on random stuff. The "Power of this Community" is bigger than that.

Why the hell would anyone want John Bates to be the middle man between us and MindArk/FPC when we can talk directly with the people in MindArk and FPC who handle these things?

What you have to understand is that they apparently don't have to read our support cases either. And if you're involved in any kind of real business in your rl at all, you'll understand that executives are at work 24 hours a day. There is no "timeclock" to punch. And again with the idea that they need to be handled with kid gloves. These are adults, and they are businessmen and women. They have responsabilities to their customers, and they're shirking them.

Do you have a specific example of a support case they have not responded to? Post the screen shots, until you do I will dare to say that you are a liar.

Yes Sledgehammer, I just called you a liar.

Furthermore, if you are not happy with how customer support is handling something then there are other channels available to you to communicate with MindArk.

The proper place and constructive way to do it is here and now in the open. If we do things quietly, they get shoved underneath the rug. I'm done with quiet. So is a big portion of this community. We want to have discussion with them, so we're going to, one way or another.

Just because MindArk isn’t holding your little hand and coddling you enough does not mean things are being shoved underneath the rug. Frankly, I would rather see them busy with fixing things then taking the time to respond to your mindless drivel and tantrums.

Seeing as how you are purposefully trying to derail John's effort here by hijacking this thread and screaming for attention, there is no way that any reasonable person could consider what you are doing as constructive. While this might seem like the right time to press the issue of MindArk's communication with us, this thread is not the right place.

This is the proper source because they other sources are not being handled properly. I really don't think there needs to be an explanation of this, unless you don't have to worry about these things. Do you have Marco's cell phone number?

Being a forum troll is not anything near "proper" nor is it constructive. Because of your inability to put coherent thoughts together on this topic it is clear that you are scraping at the bottom of the barrel for things to say yet you continue to post.

What exactly is the issue that you want MindArk to communicate to you about? Huh? You are like a dog chasing a car... you wouldn’t know what to do with it if you caught one.

Right now the priority needs to be on fixing the existing problems and that is exactly what MindArk is trying to do.

 

[AlphaGeek]

I'm actually playing, but now after looking....

There are over 2000 other potential panel topics, and while the ones Mister Bates proposes are indeed interesting, I took a tiny bit of time and scanned the first 10 percent or so of the other candidate subjects. in that first 200 or so potential topics, these gems surfaced:

Unsexy & Profitable: Making $$ Without Hype

The Future of MMOs

Making Genuine Connections: Putting Passion Over Process

The Science of Satisfaction: Lessons from R&D

Creating Social Capital Through Social Media

Using Social Media to Turn Complainers Into Cheerleaders

Spicing Up Non-Game Interactions With Game Mechanics

The Secret Sauce: Unlocking the Power of Story

I may well vote for some or maybe even all of the panels Bates proposes, but as I said in an earlier post, MA wants to be a leader in this sector. I firmly believe there are some lessons they could learn by attending some of the panels proposed by others rather than trying to tell the MA story.

 

[Profit]

John Bates wants to discuss the economics of games, represents a company that is becoming a bank, spawned from a company that started a casino, gave it the smoke and mirrors treatment and now calls it a game.
There are far more important (from the perspective of a gamer) topics to discuss, as pointed out by the previous poster, IMO. Mindark milks enough money as it is, why talk about ways to make more money? Greedy bastard.

How about we talk about how to turn the mess you greedy bastards..
..*points at CEO's and marketing managers of games companies*..
..made of games, back into a gaming experience and move it away from a VR Central Business District?

Fuck a John Bates.
Yeah I said it, flame away!

 

[HardWrath]

John Bates wants to discuss the economics of games, represents a company that is becoming a bank, spawned from a company that started a casino, gave it the smoke and mirrors treatment and now calls it a game.
There are far more important (from the perspective of a gamer) topics to discuss, as pointed out by the previous poster, IMO. Mindark milks enough money as it is, why talk about ways to make more money? Greedy bastard.

How about we talk about how to turn the mess you greedy bastards..
..*points at CEO's and marketing managers of games companies*..
..made of games, back into a gaming experience and move it away from a VR Central Business District?

Fuck a John Bates.
Yeah I said it, flame away!

Here is a nice -rep for you

If you don’t want MindArk to be successful then why in the hell are you playing the game and why are you posting in a "fan site"?

 

[Profit]

Here is a nice -rep for you

If you don’t want MindArk to be successful then why in the hell are you playing the game and why are you posting in a "fan site"?

-rep?
LOL you guys crack me up.
I don't form opinions in order to solicit a reputation.
Here's a ball, lick it, fanboy.

 

[sledgehammer]

Hardwrath, the namecalling is getting tiresome. The more I defend my arguments with logical reasoning, the angrier and more visceral you seem to become.

I'll be happy to post some screenshots for you when I get back to my pc this evening to show you I'm not a liar. In the meantime, I'm sure plenty of my compatriots can post some of theirs, or provide links to the multiple examples already posted throughout this forum.

Also, you keep saying there are "proper" places for getting issue addressed, but considering the volume of help threads started on this forum against the percentage that get responded to, it is about as easy to get an ATH a it is a thoughtful response from MA.

Now don't mistake me for saying I do not believe the programmers are working hard. That is not at issue here. What is at issue is the communication between Mindark representatives, and their customers, or rather the lack thereof.

I'm sure you're going to make a point about how the issue of this thread is our vote, not communication from MA, but please refer to my previous statements on my reasons for stating that the two are connected.