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Question: About sight/scope bonus skill and Unl weap

moise

moise

Dominant
Joined
Oct 22, 2007
Posts
357
hello there,

between a L weap maxed (with SIB not anymore)
and an Unl with Jzar scope and 2 X Hunnir sight
is those weap give same skill gain ?
is the attachment balance the skill bonus gain on the Unl ?

and will i get less "miss" with attchement usin Unl
(the question is mostly about the 40-70m range,
cause i use rifle there, then handgun)

i know about the damage range,
less effective on Unl
plus i am only lvl 40.
it's really more about skill gain and miss.

and maybe a last question,
with a not anymore SIB weap, are attachment useless ?
should be yes till we already got 10/10
but still : ?

thx
 
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The attachments are meant to give extra skills when being used. (the % are on the attachments) But, as far as I am aware, it will only increase skill gain and not in actual hit ability. (I could be wrong, I don't use them myself)

The hit ability of weapons can be adjusted by using the right enhancers. UNL or (L) weapons all have 10/10 when maxed, what is being shown is a representation of you skills with the weapon. If the attachment indeed increased hit chance, it will say so. Once equipped on a weapon it would show (example) 11.0/11.0 in orange. I however, as I don't use said attachments am unaware if those exist.

My personal view on weapons and SIB is that I find using SIB weapons pointless. Yes, you will gain slightly faster skills using the SIB weapons, but that comes at the cost of having lower hit rate and lower average damage. I always choose to use weapons as I am maxed with it, because I know the amount of hunting I can/would do will give me enough skills in the end anyways. And, the more skills you get, the higher gear you want to use to bring down bigger mobs resulting in more expensive gameplay.
I am currently hunting with a weapon that is (I don't have the game open at the moment) about 25 or so levels below my skill for it, and it is working fine. Like the saying, it's not the size, it is what you do with it. :)
 
Lizzy Storm said:
The attachments are meant to give extra skills when being used. (the % are on the attachments) But, as far as I am aware, it will only increase skill gain and not in actual hit ability. (I could be wrong, I don't use them myself)
Click to expand...

but see this :


Entropia Universe Release Notes

Attachment Parameter Changes
Skill Bonus on Attachments . The skill modification effect now have a clarifying tool tip. The attachment gives a bonus to the user's hit ability and it has full effect when the target is on maximum weapon range. When the target comes closer the effect decreases and it reaches its minimum effect when the target is in the immediate vicinity.

so it's not just about bonus skill but the effectivness (mostly in the range i was talking about)
and still is those (exemple weap : L maxed vs Unl with attachment) give same bonus gain ?

Lizzy Storm said:
The hit ability of weapons can be adjusted by using the right enhancers. UNL or (L) weapons all have 10/10 when maxed, what is being shown is a representation of you skills with the weapon. If the attachment indeed increased hit chance, it will say so. Once equipped on a weapon it would show (example) 11.0/11.0 in orange. I however, as I don't use said attachments am unaware if those exist.
Click to expand...

thanks for the "info", but about the question i still hope an answers :)

Lizzy Storm said:
My personal view on weapons and SIB is that I find using SIB weapons pointless. Yes, you will gain slightly faster skills using the SIB weapons, but that comes at the cost of having lower hit rate and lower average damage. I always choose to use weapons as I am maxed with it, because I know the amount of hunting I can/would do will give me enough skills in the end anyways. And, the more skills you get, the higher gear you want to use to bring down bigger mobs resulting in more expensive gameplay.
I am currently hunting with a weapon that is (I don't have the game open at the moment) about 25 or so levels below my skill for it, and it is working fine. Like the saying, it's not the size, it is what you do with it. :)
Click to expand...

As i said i am also using a "not anymore SIB" weap, so i agree your "personnal view"
thanks for the "info", but about the question i still hope an answers :)
 
I have run scopes and sights on both UL and L and about all I can determine is once your maxed on L all these scopes and sights do is give you an increased skill bounus, they do not increase your hit ability anymore, and you can zoom with a scope of course.

I even tried them on an opallo solomate UL and it seems to be the same once maxed you seem to loose the extra hit stat.

Only MA can confirm this officially all the rest of us can do is speculate by running tests and coming to our own conclusions on what it really is doing.
 
K-Max said:
I have run scopes and sights on both UL and L and about all I can determine is once your maxed on L all these scopes and sights do is give you an increased skill bounus, they do not increase your hit ability anymore, and you can zoom with a scope of course.

I even tried them on an opallo solomate UL and it seems to be the same once maxed you seem to loose the extra hit stat.

Only MA can confirm this officially all the rest of us can do is speculate by running tests and coming to our own conclusions on what it really is doing.
Click to expand...

thx for info Max.
can we say then that :
we got same increased skill bonus on L maxed and an Unl with both attachment
and we got same skill (no-) bonus using a L maxed and an Unl (with out attachment)

and what about this ? :
"and will i get less "miss" with attchement usin Unl
(the question is mostly about the 40-70m range)"
 
moise said:
thx for info Max.
can we say then that :
we got same increased skill bonus on L maxed and an Unl with both attachment
and we got same skill (no-) bonus using a L maxed and an Unl (with out attachment)

and what about this ? :
"and will i get less "miss" with attchement usin Unl
(the question is mostly about the 40-70m range)"
Click to expand...

If it does I think it only is minor effect on misses and only if your at max range, you get very little bonus at close range. I ran the EL tool and it registered no difference in missed shots for my gun with or without the scope and sights. It does effect your amount of hits vs evades and seems to add small skill % increase like running a mini skill pill all the time, from what I seen at the cost of losing some eco with an unmaxed gun.
 
moise said:
and what about this ? :"and will i get less "miss" with attchement usin Unl(the question is mostly about the 40-70m range)"
Click to expand...
In my experience yes (tested with 10k ped cycled through Loudmouth at level 20), as long as you are not maxed in it. I observed a statistically significant increase in hit percentage. I did not notice any difference if the target was at max range or not - but this would be almost impossible to test anyway.
 
Artrat said:
In my experience yes (tested with 10k ped cycled through Loudmouth at level 20), as long as you are not maxed in it. I observed a statistically significant increase in hit percentage. I did not notice any difference if the target was at max range or not - but this would be almost impossible to test anyway.
Click to expand...

so that's why we use scope and sight on UnL ("not maxed weap")
 
moise said:
so that's why we use scope and sight on UnL ("not maxed weap")
Click to expand...
Theoretically yes. It's worth mentioning though that the scopes/lasers don't help your damage interval at all though, which is the main cause of non-maxed weapons being uneco. My general conclusion after cycling about 30k ped through the DOA is that NO ONE SHOULD EVER USE AN UNMAXED WEAPON. Unless you hate money of course.
 
Hey,

Artrat is totally right.
I'm not sure I understand your last remaining (?) question about the misses. There are 2 kinds of not hitting the the mob, one is miss and one is evaded. evaded is a set amount for a 10/10 maxed gun. (as far as I remember even 12/10 means same amount of misses but more of the regular hits were crits? can't remember my own math xD)
Adding to that set amount were the mob evaded your shot, are misses. those only appear when you haven't maxed the gun.

So for a maxed gun(unL or SIB doesn't matter), the "Skill Mod (%)" doesn't matter/ doesn't affect anything.
For a NOT maxed gun, the "Skill Mod (%)" helps.
For both, maxed and UNmaxed, the Attachment Skill Bonus works.

About the thread quoted earlier in the thread, which was about 3 years old. Did anyone do any followup on that? the numbers seemed quite small and possibly very influenced by randomness? Also today we have a nice clean number on every scope that shows us how much more skill we get, so maybe things have changed alot?

Regards
Me
 
Here is where I posted my data https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?225511-Artrat-s-mission-log.

Please note that this was not what I would consider a proper test in the scientific sense, just a collection of observations I made based on some data I had collected.

In summary:

At that level with the doa I expected a hitrate of ~82.8% (I was level 28 with HA of 2.8 - this was before they changed the way HA works.
What I observed was that over the course of 10 runs of around 3500 shots using 2 sights and a scope on every run was that my average hitrate was around 83.5% - more consistent with a HA of 3.5.
With a large sample of 35000 shots I would have expected the randomness to even out. On top of that none of my runs was ever less than 83%, if it was just randomness I would have expected some of the runs to be below 82.8%.

I am reasonably convinced that this was a measurable effect of the use of the attachements, however, again I'd like to stress that this was not a controlled experiment.
 
Hey,

I don't think I meant your data, I'll look into yours in two days ;), but yeah 35k shots and less than half a % seems quite accurate to me. quite interesting indeed. I love tinkering with numbers :)

Happy new year
Thark
 
I intended to do a followup controlled test during MM a couple of years back, alternating runs with and without attachments, I'd hoped this would minimise the error due to level creep.However what I found was that I was killing about 20 less mobs per hour without the attachments, so I abandoned it after about 10 runs, as it was affecting my score too much :). The results continued to support my earlier conclusions though, I'll dig around and see if I kept the data somewhere.
 
As already mentioned,
you will gain the weapon bonus' when not maxxed, when you are maxxed there is no difference to make up for, no weapon bonus.

You will always gain a slight skill gain modifier when using them.


You will see a significant difference in prof levels if you never use them versus if you always use them from day one.

So far I have only short comparisons with others to go by and 2 runs at over 200k skills from scratch under my belt:
My second attempt is prof 60 now (1st cash out was about same 60 profs) with always using attachments, and no hunting related chipping.

People with similar skill numbers in say general skills, who never used attachments, are low 50's in hunting professions.

its not definitive, and I didn't get exact numbers, but there are some interesting differences.
 
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