After One Month of Playing

Depositing is not the only way MA makes money of, there's also different "taxes" (auction-fee etc) that you pay in-world as an earlier thread-poster mentioned.
So as long as there is PEDs in-world the economy of Entropia will spin and MA will get revenues. So they are not solely reliant on depositors. :wise:

Did you even thought before posting this?:rolleyes:

Let's picture this: the energy bill guy (Joe) comes in MA HQ. Where he talks with Jan (MA Ceo).

Joe: hey guys. You have to pay 2500 Euro this month for the energy consumed here.

Jan: ah, ofc, let's see, look this month we had 2 millions auction transactions so we gained 112,345 PED only from that. So, give me the bill in PED and we will pay you.

Joe: sorry, we accept only Euro here in Germany (MA server park is in Germany afaik).

Jan: oh, it can't be, look, this EF poster said we gain auction fees.

Joe: whatever. 2,500 Euro please.

Jan: so you don't accept PED.

Joe: wtf is this PED afterall? :scratch2:

Jan: well... some ...ehm... virtual money we give to depositors in exchange of $ and Bates will surely tell you some of them pay their rent with ingame earnings!

Joe: Geez.. Ok, please, 2,500 Euros for the energy bill..

Jan: Ah, now wait, look, we also have 4,523,121,211 PED gained in decay this month.

Joe: Ok.. look, I'll gonna let you the bill. You have 30 days period of grace, then you pay penalties. Real money, please, good bye.

Jan: *small voice* damn these newbs who don't read EF and don't understand how we make real money from decay & stuff..
 
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Depositing is not the only way MA makes money of, there's also different "taxes" (auction-fee etc) that you pay in-world as an earlier thread-poster mentioned.
So as long as there is PEDs in-world the economy of Entropia will spin and MA will get revenues. So they are not solely reliant on depositors. :wise:

And where would these PEDs in world come from if not from depositors?

Any way, I don't like the idea of a monthley fee or "minimal deposit". The arguments against it has allready been given by lothers befor me.

Oh, and I'm a depositor.
 
And where would these PEDs in world come from if not from depositors?

How does the economy work irl?
Do we just print money all the time and give to people to consume or does the money, coins and bills, get "recycled" in the system and used again?
 
Why would one exclude the other?

When MA needs to pay a bill, for say electricity, I'm prety sure the electric company doesn't accept PED's so MA needs real money. If there where only non depositors in EU, where would MA get that money from?

I think Kerham explained it very clearly, and if you still don't get it I'm afraid no one can help you.
 
Guess you are right Kerham, they would just get a stockpile of PEDs if noone deposited that I guess they can't do anything with. I was wrong, sorry.

Now that I think about it, why are there different fees in-world if MA can't do anything with the PEDs they accumulate through the fees? They don't need a stockpile of PEDs to give out to people that deposit, they could just create new PEDs if they wanted. They don't have the same limitations as a central bank when creating new money. Or would that cause inflation in-world?
 
Did you even thought before posting this?:rolleyes:

Let's picture this: the energy bill guy (Joe) comes in MA HQ. Where he talks with Jan (MA Ceo).

Joe: hey guys. You have to pay 2500 Euro this month for the energy consumed here.

Jan: ah, ofc, let's see, look this month we had 2 millions auction transactions so we gained 112,345 PED only from that. So, give me the bill in PED and we will pay you.

Joe: sorry, we accept only Euro here in Germany (MA server park is in Germany afaik).

Jan: oh, it can't be, look, this EF poster said we gain auction fees.

Joe: whatever. 2,500 Euro please.

Jan: so you don't accept PED.

Joe: wtf is this PED afterall? :scratch2:

Jan: well... some ...ehm... virtual money we give to depositors in exchange of $ and Bates will surely tell you some of them pay their rent with ingame earnings!

Joe: Geez.. Ok, please, 2,500 Euros for the energy bill..

Jan: Ah, now wait, look, we also have 4,523,121,211 PED gained in decay this month.

Joe: Ok.. look, I'll gonna let you the bill. You have 30 days period of grace, then you pay penalties. Real money, please, good bye.

Jan: *small voice* damn these newbs who don't read EF and don't understand how we make real money from decay & stuff..


Oh my LOL thanks for the good laugh--I can hear the conversation now and see the guy's face!

+ rep for taking the time to make your post so entertaining :)
 
For me it would depend on what the monthly fee was. I play a spaceship based MMO that costs $15 USD/month and don't mind the price too much.

I doubt Entropia will ever have a monthly fee though. I think MindArk makes more money off the current no-loot funding model :laugh:
 
slightly offtopic:
How does the economy work irl?
Do we just print money all the time and give to people to consume or does the money, coins and bills, get "recycled" in the system and used again?

well, that's THE difference from RL-eco and ingame eco.
ingame anyone can print money (deposit). that's the reason why we have hyper-inflation ingame (and in countries which governments print money on demand) and 'normal' inflation in RL (at least in countries who tie their money to value, which is the way to play).
at least that is what i was told by someone who knows economics.

ad non-depositors VS depositors:

depositers are the ones who deliver RL-money to MA. period. noone else does (assuming the ads was a shot into the dark). depositers are also the ones who 'print' ingame money (by depositing) and inject it into the ingame-economic cycle.

non-depositers are doing neither of the above. period.
they still play a role: they help to drain the ingame-money out of the game, which is a significant thing for MA, because the 'drained' ped is the money the can save up for the future, as they can be sure, no player will ever withdrawl those ped back to USD.
ofc, depositers do help as well, prolly even more. but non-depositers are playing, imo, some kind of psychological role: they 'proof' that you actually can profit in this game, even if it may be only some dollars per week, lol.
without them, MAs most powerful advertising-argument would fall.

i think that maximum 5% of the ingame-turnaround is from non-depositors, prolly less. it's just a wild guess..


now, back on topic:

if you would 'force' a minimum deposit per month, nothing would change really. the ppl who know how to play without deposit now would still go on like this and just save their deposits until they are enough to withdrawl again (ofc minus fees). no difference at all..

if MA would charge a monthly fee without giving PED for it, it would really disturb the feeling that most EU-ppl are after. the feeling of complete freedom. this would be too much of an impact on the game to stand up.

trux
 
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[...] but the so called lootpool does not recieve anything from your hard work (both up to this point and after).

Ya know something... I hear this all the time, and I have to ask:

How do you know? Do you have a copy of the source code?
Some sort of definitive answer from the developers?
I'm pretty sure the only people who actually know what goes in to the "loot pool", if there even is such a thing - which I doubt, are under signed Non-Disclosure Agreements they're not about to break.

All we have is speculation as to how things work, and that speculation does little but create an air of hostility between depositors and non-depositors - and that does no one any good at all.
 
Depositing is not the only way MA makes money of, there's also different "taxes" (auction-fee etc) that you pay in-world as an earlier thread-poster mentioned.
So as long as there is PEDs in-world the economy of Entropia will spin and MA will get revenues. So they are not solely reliant on depositors. :wise:

Did you even thought before posting this?:rolleyes:

Let's picture this: the energy bill guy (Joe) comes in MA HQ. Where he talks with Jan (MA Ceo).

Joe: hey guys. You have to pay 2500 Euro this month for the energy consumed here.

Jan: ah, ofc, let's see, look this month we had 2 millions auction transactions so we gained 112,345 PED only from that. So, give me the bill in PED and we will pay you.

Joe: sorry, we accept only Euro here in Germany (MA server park is in Germany afaik).

Jan: oh, it can't be, look, this EF poster said we gain auction fees.

Joe: whatever. 2,500 Euro please.

Jan: so you don't accept PED.

Joe: wtf is this PED afterall? :scratch2:

Jan: well... some ...ehm... virtual money we give to depositors in exchange of $ and Bates will surely tell you some of them pay their rent with ingame earnings!

Joe: Geez.. Ok, please, 2,500 Euros for the energy bill..

Jan: Ah, now wait, look, we also have 4,523,121,211 PED gained in decay this month.

Joe: Ok.. look, I'll gonna let you the bill. You have 30 days period of grace, then you pay penalties. Real money, please, good bye.

Jan: *small voice* damn these newbs who don't read EF and don't understand how we make real money from decay & stuff..

Uhm, I think there is always a misconception among the player community base regarding PED and MA. For example, Kerham, why wouldn't MA be able to pay this poor energy bill guy?

Do you think MA has their money in PED?!?! You know what happens when you deposit? That money goes to MA's brokerage account and is invested in money market funds/bonds/high-yield checking accounts/growth funds/commodities/etc/etc/etc. This money leaves the EU world completey! The PED that you see in the game is "fake", or at least, it's a reflection of the "real" money that MA has in the bank accrueing interest!

Krillehog, I wouldn't be surprised if a large chunk of MA's money is made by this accrueing of interest, dividend gains, market values gains, etc... actually, I'm interested to see if they include this on their Financial Papers... will check tonight when I get home from work.

I'm sure MA has some type of a Contigency Fund, or "PED Withdaw" Fund that is, again, on their bank account accrueing interest. This fund is their source of "re-paying" back the PEDs that are being withdrawn by players.

Think about how much interest can be accumulated if you have say, $20 Million - $30 Million in the bank?? MA doesn't have their money in PED.
 
Geez Louise! :duh:

First off welcome to Entropia Universe.

It has no subscription fee which is awesome IMO. It should never change.

The perfect Yoda quote for this is:
Do, or do not. There is no 'try.

So many think they can never attain this or that in EU. Well its possible and there are a multitude of ways to make it happen. Nothing will happen over night unless you are a trust fund baby but that is the reality of this little piece of virtual reality.

EU is not easy its taken me years and time to develop my avatar and I am still not entirely where I want my avatar to be. Some of that is just due to finances other parts of development are hampered by limited time to play.

EU is an ongoing unending story and you can pay as much as you like whenever you feel like paying it.

Yes EU is a challenge and if you don't approach it right you can spend a lot of money. When I look back on my years in EU I remember being new and looking at the "uber" players of the time. Did that deter me? no I saw it as a challenge worth working towards and I still work towards it to this day. To me nothing is quite like doing the right things to make your ped card and avatar grow. I see people at all levels doing the same thing.
 
Still No

This is drifting a bit off topic, but yes, the Entropia Economy would not exist without a constant input of new funds. EU takes a cut based on decay, but they have to withdraw those PEDS from EU in exchange for real currency, and the real currency comes from depositors (and advertisers, licensing fees, etc) and without a steady stream of income they couldn't pay their bills, as has been stated in this thread.

The EU model, unlike a subscription-based one, is based on skimming from the economy, and the economy grows because more members choose to deposit (due to the entertainment or investment value they expect to receive) more than is withdrawn by both MA and EU members.

MA's ongoing challenge is to continually develop new entertainment and investment opportunities for its members. If they are successful, then economic activity grows and MA's cut (income) grows with it. If the EU economy slows then their cut is reduced.

This model gives MA the incentive to develop EU's economy (increase total player activity) in a way that encourages members to deposit without requiring it. By having all types of members, from "freeloading" ;) sweaters to mega-depositors, newbies to pre-gold ubers, EU has the diversity of needs among its members to allow for a vibrant economy.

I have played for a little over a year and the tools and supplies I need to buy, and the resources and products I acquire and use or sell, are constantly changing. If MA were to somehow level everyone out, as the OP suggested, it would destroy the dynamic that makes EU go, as well as all incentive to progress within EU.

I have deposited on occasion, but I do not consider myself a depositor in the sense it is used by most people. I deposited to provide my avatar the means to earn his own way in EU. I am a professional hunter who mines a bit and crafts a bit on the side. I am successful in that I able to survive and grow in EU - to make a living as it were - through my EU activity.

In RL I earn a RL living, in EU - my virtual life - I earn a virtual living. If I had to deposit, what would be the point? When MA said to me, in what little marketing exposure I had before landing on Calypso, that there were different ways to make money, different professions I could pursue, I did not confuse that with making a RL income in my Virtual life. The fact that a few members are able to do that is good, and impressive, knowing how hard it is just to make it virtually, but it was not what I expected for myself.

When I have some money to transfer from RL to EU, I do it not so that I can keep playing, but so I can have a bigger bankroll and a more comfortable life in EU. I do appreciate that steady depositors and big investors make it possible, but I also know that this allows them a different experience, one that provides them (hopefully) with the experience they are looking for. Not everyone - in fact most - would probably not enjoy living here the way I do, and that is as it should be. For EU to be successful it will always need all classes of players, and even non-depositors play their part.

The OP's suggestions about tiered but limited deposits and leveling of the avatars (see p.s.) is tantamount to nuking EU. It goes against the very fabric of EU and everything is has to offer. Those who think it is a good idea should probably look for some new form of entertainment, because what the OP is suggesting is not going to happen.

No offense meant to the OP, I think it is good and healthy to discuss all aspects of EU here, and your post is different from the usual let's-have-a-basic-subscription-fee threads - which I also oppose - but really what you are suggesting seems to miss the whole point of EU, and what makes it so special.

:beerchug:

Miles

p.s. The leveling concept proposed in the 3rd post involves splitting off a new server. There is only one EU and splitting off a new "server" (like so many MMRPG's) is also not an option. Again, the single, persistent universe is central to the whole EU concept.
 
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Depositing is not the only way MA makes money of, there's also different "taxes" (auction-fee etc) that you pay in-world as an earlier thread-poster mentioned.
So as long as there is PEDs in-world the economy of Entropia will spin and MA will get revenues. So they are not solely reliant on depositors. :wise:

I dunno if I get it but for non-depositors to be able re-cycle peds...peds must first be «created» and peds only gets «created» when a depo is made. Same thing for peds dumped into auction fees and da like...peds must be «created» first in order for them to be paid as auction fees.

So a non-depositor that spend peds is only allowing MA to mark those peds as «void» and thus they can actualy take that money`s worth beeing confident that no1 can actually ask to withdraw them.

I just can`t get how non-depositors can actually create wealth for MA and pay their bills. Only hard cash does this for MA and hard cash comes from depos.
 
I just can`t get how non-depositors can actually create wealth for MA and pay their bills. Only hard cash does this for MA and hard cash comes from depos.

Non-Depositors who collect the freebies and sell them earn ped. Some of that ped will eventually end up being decay which MA removes from EU. Also any resources they collect usually end up being refined or used in other processes which generate more decay which allows MA to remove more ped from EU. Some people who use those freebie items deposit to cover costs. Sweat refines to ME = decay -> ME used in MF = Decay just as an example.

So long as people are contributing to things that eventually lead to some type of decaying action MA will be able to funnel those peds out of EU and eventually someone or many someones (maybe even Ads as well) will deposit to keep that bucket full.

Even freebies eventually turn into decay at some point or the sweat gatherer who gained peds from sweating uses those to go mine or hunt.
 
Ya know something... I hear this all the time, and I have to ask:

How do you know? Do you have a copy of the source code?
Some sort of definitive answer from the developers?


All we have is speculation as to how things work,


this applies to alot of things. i hate going off topic, but i think many don't have much proof. all they can do is offer an educated guess, or state an observation. but some try to turn the guess into a fact.
 
Uhm, I think there is always a misconception among the player community base regarding PED and MA. For example, Kerham, why wouldn't MA be able to pay this poor energy bill guy?

Do you think MA has their money in PED?!?!

Exactly that was my point, that MA doesn't have their money in PED. Some ppl are so attached to the idea that decay & fees are "money for MA" that it is scary.

If you do this little effort to read the thread, you'll see I was just ridiculising the idea of money from thin air. I would +rep you for being a clear minded one, as is obvious and I would -rep you for not reading previous posts. So we call it even and I'll do nothing :p

@Sirhc:

Auction fees and decay and all that are not money for MindArk are just some tools.

The most probable hipothesys is that from the bulk of all deposits they take a certain quota for expanses, a certain quota for profit and a certain quota is safeguarded for withdrawals. Those quotas are prolly calculated checking the proportion of fees, decay etc vs. the whole mass of PED ingame.

And they probably developed some equation which says "in average, from a deposit of 100$, 85$ stay ingame, 15$ are withdrawn. From 85$, 25$ goes in decay, fees, etc, and 60$ is the continuous bankroll of avatar", so, presumably, they could safely move 25-40$ from one account to another.

But that happens from deposits. Not from Santa Clause's sweat.
 
You should reread what I wrote. Is not a whine, is an economics discussion. Without depositors, you can't have nondepositors, shortly put.

thats the general Idea...

RCE stands for real cash economy, so it is an extention of your regular life, just like a poker game with friends or buying a car - for instance if you buy expensive car and your nigbour gets one from parents, does that make her/him a non-depositor :yay:? Sould he pay a monthly fee to make you happy?

well he/she actually does pay the huge fee - larger than any of your deposits - while dumping time into EU to get the game free (whithout deposit) you had enough time to make money to buy an expencive car...

so who is the "sucker" now?
 
Exactly that was my point, that MA doesn't have their money in PED. Some ppl are so attached to the idea that decay & fees are "money for MA" that it is scary.

If you do this little effort to read the thread, you'll see I was just ridiculising the idea of money from thin air. I would +rep you for being a clear minded one, as is obvious and I would -rep you for not reading previous posts. So we call it even and I'll do nothing :p ...

Okay, I gotcha. Yes, I agree with this. This also bugs me at times that people think MA is getting cash from decay/etc/etc in Real Time. They already have your cash stashed in a sweet bank account getting some serious interest.

We appear to "lose" the PED in real-time and I think that's what confuses the people. We lose/gain the PED in Real-Time and MA has already gotten the Revenue from you since the second you clicked the "Depo" button, so they don't "gain" the PED in Real-Time.

This is make-believe though, so I guess there's no harm to do so ;) .... however, to go back to the OP's point, NO there should NOT be a monthly subscription! If you want to enjoy this game at different levels, then you will need to deposit! Nothing wrong with that. If you want to experience a game at all levels without depositing, then play WoW, or Guitar Hero ;) .
 
Oh, I mean monthly fee as a minimum limit, for maximum, each can deposit whatever they want :)

...

By the way, this at first seems intriguing. Seems like it might actually help give the RCE a nice boost, however, after some thought, I think it would be a quick boost up, followed by a huge downward slide. Why?

Those that deposit in EU are those that know and understand that they can lose that cash. If you force everyone to deposit, it will simply anger those who do not feel prepared to contribute economically to an RCE. It is said that the average player sticks around EU for 6-12 months? Well, if you force them to pay $10 monthly and they lose it in 3 days, then I could confidently say that the average a player sticks around will be cut in half to maybe 3-6 months.

However, it also has the potential to desensitize people and help them go beyond the fear of depositing. Too many people are scared to deposit for one reason or another. Perhaps something like this would alleviate this feeling?? Don't know, but if I was MA, I would ease on the side of caution and keep things as is.
 
I Had read all the posts and I am still a little confused.
1. I not sure about the comptetion. I am not competing with anyone other than the game and that is to get better by getting green. I don't care what other players get or don't get although I am a bit jealous when I see an ATF no matter who it is.
2. If we are forced to depop would that mean we will get all of ours stuff for free, i.e. hunting items, crafting items, mining items and so on to apply our trade. Would that mean players would get items based on their lvl ? How would you get an uber item other than reaching lvl 100 or what ever. If not, how would we get them as I see no way to buy a mod merc with any reasonalable deposit, like 19.95USD per month. Anyone want to sell a MM for that price. I don't really like the idea of selling items outside EU.
3.This one I think I get. If no one depoed then the game would be doomed because I don't think you would have enough players to put the amount of money being depoed in the game now. I know I am about 94 months ahead now based on 19.95 USD a month.

This game is more like RL than any other. If you want to get ahead work harder or spend more money. I have respect for those that choose to play without the depo because it is IMO a great feat to be able to play in that manner. I, myself, like the idea of buying my way up a little. I am retired and do not work at all, if I need some repair to my house I hire someone to do the work even though I could, most of the time, do it myself. It is a matter of how you want to spend your time. I like killing med mobs but after playing only about 6 months I don't think I could unless I depoed and chipped up some and this cost money.

Lastly if you want a depo game where you just get item at a prescibed time and , if you like, you can sell that item on e-bay then this is not the game for you. If you want a game where work and/or money or either by itself will acheive the same results, where things break, get used up and you get higher in the game by acheivement then this is more like the RL we face everyday and this is the game for you.
 
First of all thx for starting this. There have been some interesting replies so far.

Monthly fee:

As already mentioned, this would go in conflict with how EU is build up. Although, this might sound interesting for those that do deposit, but I’m pretty sure that MA already considered this and they found out that they generate more income with the actual setting as with a monthly fee.

EU economy
...
Eu economy

1. Some random sucker Joe deposited 0,25$ in EU.
2. Those 0,25$ transformed in 2,5 ped were used by Joe to buy hairgel.
3. Once hairgel is used, MindArk can take Joe's deposit from account A (income) and use it for whatever they need.
...

Seems quite logical but we should distinct some cases here.

From an MA perspective:

all deposited amounts do go directly to their income statement. What they try to balance is that deposited minus withdrawn amounts do cover costs plus some profit.

From an RCE perspective:

The main principle of an economy is the principle of a markup. Say we have two players, both having an item of 1 PED TT and both items have a “use”. Assume player A “needs” the item of player B. They can exchange the items if they like, but if player B refuses, the only possibility for A to get the item is to offer a markup. So where does the money for the markup come?, and here I share Kerhams opinion, that without depositors EU won’t work.

Furthermore, due to decaying items there is a constant need for money that is put into the game. Also here, without depositors we won’t have anything. So the depositors do provide EU’s corpus.
So what do non depositors provide? Do they have a use, or should they be urged to put some money into the game, maybe due to some monthly fees?

Let’s go back to our example. Player B is willing to sell his item to A due to the offered markup. If B is a depositor, then the markup should be quite high. Why? you might ask. Every depositor tries to recover his deposited amount and hence he will only be satisfied with a high markup. A non depositor is the same a depositor with 0 deposited amounts and hence his request for a markup will be lower. So non depositors are fundamental for the balance between offer and demand. Without them we won’t have an economy.

So in conclusion, every RCE needs both, those that provide money, and those that like to get some. If things are balanced then the RCE will work, otherwise it will fail. To urge them with monthly fees would be counterproductive .

If you reread the RCE section, you’ll notice that two words are written bold. Items must have a use, and hence there is a need for them. What we should ask is, if this is true for EU?
 
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Yes, definitely interesting replies given here. Thanks to OP and responders.

Yes, I also believe that non-depositors are needed in an RCE. They are definitely an integral variable in the RCE Formula. However, I also believe that depositors have more of an effect on the RCE Formula (considering they're highly outnumbered). They just come from different directions, but all contribute in making an RCE prosper.

I just wish that Mindark could flat out say, "Deposit and Live Your Virtual Life In Entropia Universe As You Want It To Be Like", rather than, "It's Free To Play". However, they have to hope for A LOT of initial non-depositors in order to increase their economies of scale. Meaning, the more non-depositors there are, the more depositors will emerge. Example, I played for about 3 weeks until I began depositing... now I deposit regularly. Basically, get as many people as possible to play the game for free (non-depositors) and increase the number of those few that will remain and become depositors in the future.
 
I just wish that Mindark could flat out say, "Deposit and Live Your Virtual Life In Entropia Universe As You Want It To Be Like", rather than, "It's Free To Play"..

just could not resist:

It is Free to play, Living in it costs money :laugh:
 
Okay, I gotcha. Yes, I agree with this. This also bugs me at times that people think MA is getting cash from decay/etc/etc in Real Time. They already have your cash stashed in a sweet bank account getting some serious interest.

We appear to "lose" the PED in real-time and I think that's what confuses the people. We lose/gain the PED in Real-Time and MA has already gotten the Revenue from you since the second you clicked the "Depo" button, so they don't "gain" the PED in Real-Time.

Decay removes ped from EU. Its a constant drain on the system which needs to be replenished with deposits.

Yes they already have our deposits and they can do with what they please with those. When people withdraw they have to cover that and probably should have a good sized portion of all the peds in EU covered as well.

Decay is MA's mechanism to remove ped from EU this frees up ped covering revenue. A good portion of all actions in EU lead to some sort of decay which MA removes from EU. Deposits replenish ped in EU.........Decay takes it out of EU. I don't know why people cannot seem to grasp that concept.

MA is a smart business so I am sure they make a tiddy sum off interest as well, since our money is sitting in a bank covering the peds in EU. Once we decay those peds MA does not need to cover them in EU any longer. That is how they make money from decay. Maybe our avies generate a decay report each session and this is what they use instead of a real time decay ticker. I can't say I don't know how its coded so its one other mystery of EU.

MA controls the money that is for sure but they need to cover ped values in EU. The constant decay/deposit process is how I would suspect they make the bulk of their income + interest on deposits we make.

Just really think about it stones, fruit, and sweat will eventually end up being processed and generating some form of decay or initiating a deposit or two. MA only really loses money when people use EU as a chat and never contribute to the economy. Even traders move resources which eventually lead to decay. All roads lead to it because that is how MA makes cash.
 
just could not resist:

It is Free to play, Living in it costs money :laugh:

Well put, just like RL you can exist without a lot of money and in fact you can enjoy the real things in life like, love, health, knowledge and friends, without money, however I think it is much better if you have a little money along the way.
 
MA controls the money that is for sure but they need to cover ped values in EU. The constant decay/deposit process is how I would suspect they make the bulk of their income + interest on deposits we make.

MA only needs to cover withdrawals, and pay their operating expenses... I realize no one ever reads license agreements, but EU is not a bank, and deposits are not deposits as much as they are a fee paid for a service. The service is access to the universe, and your access to the universe is at the whim of MindArk. Not a negative comment in any way, I love EU, and will continue to deposit my little green "thank you note" to MindArk whenever I want, and I don't begrudge the non-depos a thing. I might decide to become a non-depo one day, to the point of the OP, I'd like to have the choice:)

That said, it's an interesting thread, and interesting to see different people's interpretation of EU.
 
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Decay is MA's mechanism to remove ped from EU this frees up ped covering revenue. A good portion of all actions in EU lead to some sort of decay which MA removes from EU. Deposits replenish ped in EU.........Decay takes it out of EU. I don't know why people cannot seem to grasp that concept.

MA is a smart business so I am sure they make a tiddy sum off interest as well, since our money is sitting in a bank covering the peds in EU. Once we decay those peds MA does not need to cover them in EU any longer. That is how they make money from decay. Maybe our avies generate a decay report each session and this is what they use instead of a real time decay ticker. I can't say I don't know how its coded so its one other mystery of EU.

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This is the very notion that I am disagreeing with, or at least diminishing the importance of! I understand your point on decay and all that, but that is just a fraction of the sources that give MA its income!!

The main income indicator for MA is the ratio between the deposits and the withdrawals. Actually, obviously, the biggest is the number of deposits, then it's the number of withdrawals relative to deposits, then it's the number of business opportunities that they can offer (to increase deposits), then it's the number of items that can be used to "park" cash... way below this stuff is the decay factor. This is what I mean by the decay issue being just a fraction of the source of income for MA. Highly over-rated.

Hope I'm clear on this.
 
Decay removes ped from EU. Its a constant drain on the system which needs to be replenished with deposits.

This is a bit too simplified.

You also have loot payback, and there is really no way to tell if this depends on ammo spend, decay+ammo spend or some % of either or.

If you forget all rumours about how it works, and just look at what actually happens, what you do is that you spend ammo and decay, bombs and probes, and you get something back.

The drain is really = "all your costs over time" - "myloot over time".

Maybe the best proof that the drain isn't simply "the decay" is the melee weapons...
ofcourse, you could argue that the melee weapons is a special case, but its much easier to just forget about the division of decay and ammo, and assume its all counted together, and the return is a % that we don't know about (and probably shifting depending on among other things, the market, the time, the mob/activity, yourself, everyone else, etc)...
 
This is a bit too simplified.

You also have loot payback, and there is really no way to tell if this depends on ammo spend, decay+ammo spend or some % of either or.

from what I know so far, return is about 90% and is related to the directly sustained cost, i.e. when you hunt its ammo + decay on weapon. Furthermore, there is an adjustment on higher level mobs to accomplish decay on armor/fap.


So we can expect that the drain of cash due to decay/ammo is about 10% with hunting.

This kind of drain has two uses:

Firstly, it generates income for MA
Secondly, it removes PEDs from the game and helps so to prevent inflation. Unfortunately we have a lot of deposits and hence still a huge inflation on specific items.
 
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