AH orders not matching (design feature prevent autotrade)

[Msturlese]

I worked 25 years in stock marjets bvoth cash and derivatives.
the bilateral continuous auction on markets works this way
1. time priority
2. quantity priority

I sadly discovered in EU that it works different and its better that all are aware to avoid the problems i saw and specifically
1. an order is put in the system to buy a specific quantity at a specific price
2. an order of opposite sign should HIT the inserted order matching as HIS desired price

more specifically if a price of 109% merkup is inserted, all the quantities sold at 109% and below should be filled at 109% (time priority)

THIS IS NOT THE CASE

as you can see from the images below an order exist, lower offers are inserted and no match is done, due the AH has a "buyer safeguard system"
that is a strange design for an AH matchmaking market but it is not the case to explain to the developer how to run their system
i want to explain to players that this absurd situation can exist.....

images are self explanatory.
ORDERS (note time since creation)

OFFERS (Eligible for matching and not filled)

Apart crafting for delivering (as many other) and remain with items to sell for armatrix crafting that is a minor problem
and is not a big issue also the 20 ped difference on sales, even if more is better
the fact is that having just a better matchmaking system would let the order filled (buy any seller i dont ask for any personal benefit)
and not see a purchase that remain there 26 days before being matched.

OMEGATON initiative pay 109%? ANY fill at any price offered under 109 should be filled at 109%
once finished, GG
so ppl see that the order is disappear, and this for each and any product of course.


EDITED : a further order was inserted from MA in the AH for the event that filled all the pending offers today.
it was as explained below

 

[Msturlese]

a side note... if sales order are put in "with buyout" all works
(so it is as reported an error in "reserving" for some unnfillable order the bid)
if a seller put a start price with higher buyout he "LOCKS" the order
preventing other to sell.....
moving the priority to the "buyout" column for matching could solve this.....

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

There's no "safeguard" or conspiracy here. You can't sell to that order because it has active bids and probably lacks the funds.

Orders not only execute buyouts, they also put bids (as long as the order has enough remaining funds/units to buy).

If you do a quick search on the auction house for offers of Simple II conductors you will see several with a last active bid by "Consul Tiberius Calderon". Which means the order you are trying to trigger very possibly has no funds left to buy (or bid on) any other offer.

Case in point:

The other stuff you said made no sense to me so I stopped reading.

Cheers

 

[Msturlese]

that is what i said in a poor english
no conspiration just works in a strange way
lol
i had also the explanation fromt he support staff was if someone else try to sell and see no executed price this is why

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

that is what i said in a poor english
no conspiration just works in a strange way
lol
i had also the explanation fromt he support staff was if someone else try to sell and see no executed price this is why

No worries, this question comes up a lot. For some reason people never think that orders can actually put bids like us

And to be fair this is a "new" mechanic (a couple of years old?), in the past orders only worked on buyout.

GL

 

[jetsina]

Yes it works in an unhelpful way because it does not show how much of the order is currently reserved for bids already made between the bottom of your screenie and 109%. Angel shows such a bid that is 'blocking' 1182 units, but there must be some more as well to stop quantities of 500 from selling.
Like many things in EU, it takes a bit of learning to realise you have to check for yourself how much of a buy order is blocked at any time. I understand the 'grrrrr' for sure!

 

[Fanan]

Meanwhile don't forget to pay the auction fee.... Even if you end up removing the auction.

You're welcome Mindark.

 

[Orion]

@Msturlese, I adore your efforts to explain this unintuitive order function to the playerbase.
Thank you!

But reading your text makes my eyes bleed.
In best case your explanation will be helpful to the playerbase for another ten years, before MA overhauls the AH system.

Can you please go over your text once more and correct the worst typos?
Thank you!

 

[Katie Chalmers]

I've had alot of people come to me for help with this "bug". Not sure why I am the go to person but I am always happy to help explain
To recap why this is a problem:
-Order bids on any stack that meets its markup, size and time parameters
-Bids cannot be removed, only if outbid by another avatar
-Orders cannot bid on more stock than for what they are allocated.
-The "Quantity" parameter does not update for pending sales, ONLY competed sales

Therefore we get the problem that you and many others have run into.
In a normal order market this usually isn't a problem, because orders are placed for only 24 hours typically. Therefore it is impossible for an avatar to hedge their bets against the order with a qualified start bid but a higher buyout, because the order wont bid on it if it is outside of time window. In fact this is why you see a majority of 24 hour orders, it removes the option for the seller to hedge it, forcing them to set their buyout at the order price, and leads to a more successful fill of the order
But with these month long orders (or any orders over 24 hours). The start bid is at the order price, to guarantee the sale, and the buyout is set to whatever we think we could get for it. The order becomes our safeguard against an expired listing.
The result of this practice is that the actual available quantity left on the order is different to the one listed. And you usually have to go through and manually check the bids and do some math to work out the quantity you need to list in order to guarantee an instant sale.

We could solve this issue a few different ways:
1.Set a maximum order duration of 24 hours. This would effectively eliminate hedging, but could be a pain for the gathering of rare items, especially if you are on a different planet. We could instead be able to make an order queue, where an expired order would relist itself for another 24 hours and roll over its available funds, till it either runs out of funds or is filled. Instead of paying for 1x 7 day order you would now pay for 7x 1 day orders upfront. -This idea I like the most
2. Disallow orders to bid on bids/ BO only. -eww Katie no likey.
3. Split the available column into 2 parts, Pending and Free. -yen this one is ok I guess but does not solve the core issue of hedging. But it will prevent people making mistakes.

 

[Msturlese]

The is only ONE logical solution- Orders are calculated on BUYOUT price and filled.
no "reserved" bullshit.
in that way a seller pose a BITE on teh poor order maker and prevent ppl that sell at better price to fill
that is absurd in all economic environment

if you pay 10 i offer to sell at 12 but i prevent ppl selling at 10 to sell..... are you kidding me ?
this i called RIGGING the market.....
but we play with the weird rule of the house, not with the ones that we want.
now i am aware, sill not happen again, and in the specific case was solved with a new bigger order
that filled everyone. again, bad design, that lead to ppl that BAITS to sell higher to have a undue advantage.....

 

[Angel O2 Mercer]

There is an even easier solution, make it so orders only display the remaining funds / units they can buy, instead of the "theoretical" total amount.

I say this because "buyout only" orders have problems of their own, and it's the reason MA changed how they work.