Allnighter's locked thread

[Pirate]

Let me start this thread by providing the original link to the discussed topic :

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-discussion/196509-hell-my-soc-m8-giving-up.html

This thread was made, as a informative loss by a society member, and what occured to them recently regarding some valuable item's. It was in turn locked by a moderator <JohnCapital>, which I wholly disagree with, and this is a copy of my response to JohnCapitol via PM. The reason I am making this public, is to add a little bit more credit back to the situation of the above original post, and the opinion I have that the moderator made a error in blocking the thread. Hopefully this shines back on poor allnighter's original problem, and reopen's the thread. However, I srsly doubt it, and anticipate it will be blocked or deleted promply upon a moderator stumbling across it. Read it while you can


John,
I have a problem with you John, and your action's on locking Allnighter's thread about the stolen item's. I'm a straightforward kind of person, so I hope you take the time to understand why.

Allnighter's Character. (A little background on the person)

Allnighter recently sold an amp, worth ballpark ----USD (Irrelevant), quite a rare find. He is also the kind of person, I've had time to sit back in society and watch, and see that he would give the shirt off his back for someone else, and as a result, he's prob lent out half that value to soc member's that needed help since then. He's a great soc member, and a nice guy, period. He's also quite adept and been around a few years now, mentioning that only to follow up by saying he wouldn't begin a post on the basis of a false accusation. Now we can't win them all with helping everyone out, and as such, this ordeal just bit him for 10,000ped or ballpark thereof. Not fun, even for the more illustrious member's of EU, especially not for us normal half-broke ones. As such he made a thread, one I back him up 100% on.

Now, you mentioned on your final post, before locking it, that Allnighter had no proof, and that he ought to beware ruining anther's reputation on EU for misguided blame. While I do, and I do, understand your point here, it's quite difficult to reply to that when you lock your thread immediately thereafter isn't it. Honestly it makes him look rather shameful for being wrong in the first place, making it that much harder for him to get acknowledgment and losing believability yes? Personally, I think so. Truth of the matter is there IS proof of the ordeal gone sour with that exact person (screenshot's, ect), and this thread wasn't made ill advised. However as per rule 2.13, we can't publicly bang another in specific's here on the forum, thus I think he did a good job of editing his words.

My main argument here is this :

Why lock the thread in the first place? It break's no rules (via 2.13). Allnighter's well respected, and people will read this and beware having it done to them in return for future reference.

There is proof, which is not handled publicly on forum's, thus, the post is edited not to mention names in specific's, and break's no rules.

Why lock the thread over not providing specific's to prove it was justified, it would have just broke rule 2.13 and thus been deleted anyway. Instead you mention that not being 100% sure and leading false accusations is a proverbial no-no, which I should hope every person on EU knew when then started, and thus need's no mentioning. Your reason for locking the thread was exactly? THIS is exactly why it's non-specific, and put into story format to warn other's. I think you did more harm than good locking it, personally.

To end it, I know it's a long thread, apologies. Allnighter's a good player, well respected, and has a nice hard time ahead of him with this dilemma anyway, why make it harder on him. I personally wasn't around when he made the thread, but I agree with making it now, 1000%. Damn shame it got locked, more need to know about this sort of thing.

Feel free to do what you must in retaliation to my post here, I really don't beat around the bush when I have something I need to say, and I felt this was warranted.

 

[JohnCapital]

First, a little reminder of the forum rules:

2.14 - Administrator/Moderator Criticism
Criticism of these forum rules, or Forum Staff implementation of these forum rules is NOT permitted in any publicly viewable area of the forum. Such content WILL BE DELETED without notice. If you disagree with how the forum is being moderated or administered, please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of any forum page to contact the Forum Staff. If you are unclear about the purpose or interpretation of one of the forum rules, either contact an administrator via private message, or consult the EntropiaForum Rules Discussion thread.

So, I'm well within my rights (as you admitted) to lock/delete this thread if I wish.

However, others have asked me (in private, as is proper) and I have repsonded, just as I've responded to you. (In private)

But since you want to make a public deal about this, I'll post the Pm I just sent you. (which you failed to mention you would make this thread. Hoping the mods would miss it?)

Pirate, I totally understand your point of view. I'll try to make certain things totally clear, by bulleting them.

• I like Allnighter. Never had a problem with him.
• Yes, I'm aware of the other info about {person} that's come out since then.
• No, I am not trying to "protect" {person}. I don't know him, never dealt w/ him, and frankly don't like cheaters/thieves in any way.

Answer about why I locked the thread:
My biggest (in fact only) problem w/ the thread was one simple fact: He put it up before he ever talked to {person} ingame and verified it was resold/stolen.

Had he waited until he talked ingame, on some forum, whatever, and proved that {person} was unwilling/unable to return the item when asked to, I would have had no problem with leaving the thread up, so long as rule 2.13 (there is no 2.16, but I assume you meant 2.13 - Scamming Accusation) wasn't breached. Yes, I know about the tier numbers, etc. however, the point is folks should always try to deal w/ things privately before making it public.

It was not something I liked doing, especially now that so much more info about {person} is coming out. However, I can't allow an accusation like that to come onto the forum before the "victim" has even contacted the the other person and said "give me my stuff".

I see you are pulling an "Allnighter" with this thread, trying to deal w/ thing publicly before trying to deal w/ them privately.

 

[Pirate]

Absolutely not, you misunderstand why I made this post entirely.

I made this replica post of the one I sent you, in fact, to return some credit to the original poster, and the opinion that the thread had no real reason for being deleted. I just sent the same PM back to you. I wanted this publicly put on the forum's, as so we might both respect the rules, and everyone during the conversation can see exactly what's been posted. I've had quite a few time's I've disagreed with Moderator's and never shared my thought's about it, what better way that to do it here, abiding by the rules.

As far as breaking the rules via criticism, that would be a good way to duck out of having this conversation publicly no doubt. Besides, who can't handle a little criticism every now and then? Not even moderator's are 100% right all the time, god knows I'm not. However I am not criticizing you as a person, I just totally disagree with your action to lock the thread, and your comment on the final post. It struck me much like being sneer, much like this comment above.

I see you are pulling an "Allnighter" with this thread, trying to deal w/ thing publicly before trying to deal w/ them privately.

Fact remain's however, I can't see a viable reason to lock the thread. If Allnighter had submitted the evidence beforehand, it only would have been locked due to rule 2.13 being broke, so you can't really ask him to submit evidence of it here. And as mentioned before, the story was told without names, place's and evidence to tell all what happened without breaking rule 2.13 exactly, whole point.

Now as far as your point, and your message you sent to me : I do understand where your coming from. No one want's undue blame thrown at them if they didn't do something. However given recent outbreak of just how notorious the character actually is, and the fact there is evidence of it from the specific person, I'd say Allnighter was well within his right to open this post, and that if you needed any reassurance he wasn't pointing blame to someone that wasn't guilty, maybe via pm you could have contacted him, and allowed him a chance to justify making the claim.

(which you failed to mention you would make this thread. Hoping the mods would miss it?)

Absolutely not, if I wanted to be sneaky at all, I wouldn't have started this thread . Actually, quite the opposite, I hoped quite a few moderator's/poster's would see it, before it was deleted.

 

[Ratez]

I'm not going to even bother typing something long.

1) The thread that was locked was created before there was any evidence and he made it at work before even confronting the person. He gave enough hints of who the person is. If this was actually false, he ruined a perfectly reputable member of EU and EF. Why should a moderator let him further discredit a person with no proof at all. You say he had adequate proof? Thats not true. He found this out at work. Straight away made a thread about it. If I was to lend you items Pirate and you so happen to see a cheap identical one, bought it and listed it on auction because you only wanted quick profit and do not need it as you are already borrowing from someone.. how would you feel if I goto forums and write a post about what a scammer you are without confronting you first?

2) Keep it in PM?

 

[PW3CKA]

I dont like John locked the thread even i understand why....

I deeply hate that cherry whatever person..

And i hope allnighter hit some cool loot so its going to even up for him ;f


And last and most important thing..

Pirate.. CHANGE YOUR FONT

EDIT:

No one ruined noone reputation.. When you see item with exact tier rates its just 99.9% sure its the same item... (the 0.01% might be MA bug )The range of tier rates is so high and distribution between levels so random that there is no single chance to have items with the same tier rates... + the behaviour of the person when asked... 1+1=damn scammer

Anyway, EF has some rules and we must follow it.. If you dont like them , go and join entropiaplanets.com for example

 

[Pirate]

Next Post -------

 

[Pirate]

I see you point wholly Ratez.


No one want's false accusation's thrown at them, or a ruined rep. I agree with that. However, no one also want's there legitimate claim, dismissed without investigation as a hoax either.

Pirate.. CHANGE YOUR FONT

Haha, for sure PW3CKA! Changed!

Yea maybe he'll find that random ATH to help even it out!

 

[Mandy]

And as mentioned before, the story was told without names, place's and evidence to tell all what happened without breaking rule 2.13 exactly, whole point.

Wrong.

The accused was named. It was done in such a way that anyone who had heard of this person before would get the name right away, and even if you hadn't it didn't take too much working out.

The reason I am making this public, is to add a little bit more credit back to the situation of the above original post,

Fail.

and the opinion I have that the moderator made a error in blocking the thread.

No error was made. He meant to lock it and had good cause to do so.

 

[demonseedgfx]

Hmmm looking like a cat fight now. I understand why the thread was created so early... Panic. I understand why it was locked. Other person not contacted to confirm the situation. Maybe the thread could have been worded a little better and maybe the mod could have posted/contacted the creator regarding the thread before locking. But this thread is going down hill fast and causing more distress and making others look worse than the target of the original post. The pen is mightier than the sword remember well the keyboard is mightier than the sword nowadays. In defending your friends in posts remember you can cause them more trouble and problems than you solve so word things carefully and dont argue with others as you are representing them. Also please dont take offence by this I think what happened is really bad and needs to be resolved by officials some how. We definitely need a loan system in game to stop this sort of thing. Sorry for the long post.

 

[JohnCapital]

I made this replica post of the one I sent you, in fact, to return some credit to the original poster,

You can't possible believe that my closing that thread hurt Allnighter's rep, can you? Do you have any evidence of this?

Fact remain's however, I can't see a viable reason to lock the thread.

So, making public accusations before talking to the "thief" is ok?

If Allnighter had submitted the evidence beforehand, it only would have been locked due to rule 2.13 being broke, so you can't really ask him to submit evidence of it here.

Didn't ask for evidence, mate. I asked him to confront the person before making it public.

No one want's false accusation's thrown at them, or a ruined rep. I agree with that. However, no one also want's there legitimate claim, dismissed without investigation as a hoax either.

Guess you missed the part where I said:

Come back when you are sure. And mind rule 2.13

According to Allnighter, here is what did NOT occur before that thread.

Guy #1: Give it back
Guy #2: No

NOW we officially have a theft, and he could have said something and we all would have felt sorry for him.

You seem unable to grasp this point.


No, I didn't want to close that thread.
Yes, I'm sure he is correct and his goods were stolen/resold.
No, I'm not happy about having to close it.
Yes, I had to, for the one single reason I have hammered on.

Now do you get it?

 

[Executor]

Pirate, you really should use the default font, putting the other ones hurts the reader's eyes and probably make them hate you just becasue of this visual attack.


But this thread should be totally PM'ed IMO.

 

[EMW]

Well its been a week or two now, so can the thread be re-opened or has the item been returned now? Seems the lollan thread is an acceptable one! One thing is for sure both of these people seem to have good rep ingame and have lost valuable items! too much political correctness in these situations no smoke without fire anyway.

Hang them until proven innocent!

 

[Nobleone]

So now that John Capitol is on the same page as everyone else and is aware that a scam has happened why does he not just UNLOCK the original LOCKED thread?

Don't get me started on the jack boot moderation here...

 

[The White Dot]

All I see in these threads, and from what I have been told is "normal" levels of bickering. People stealing, people fighting.. and hell even the forum moderators can't escape the gravity of negativity.

What is the point to what I say? For a game (most games supposed to be fun), I see a hell of a lot of unhappy people.

Just twists my guts to see people thieving and scamming, and causing fights between the good people.

Edit: I really hope the best for Allnighter, and Faye with their items though the outcome looks gloomy.

As for the fighting I am sure it will be as it will be, as it is human nature. But don't forget to enjoy yourself once in a while guys.

 

[Norbert]

Don't know what all this is about but here are some dancing monkey's and smileys.

 

[shoti]

this thread is not as bad as it looks. Orginaly closed one cant be "accidentaly" bumped so this one works perfectly as reminder.

As for john moderating, he is realy doing good job. He stick to rules, avoid them in realy necessary cases (aren"t we saint all ? no ? good ), he is objective as far as it is possible for human being.

Best prove of John's good will is that we can still post here.

 

[Anselme25]

Forum rules are not written in stone. They're made to be broken anyway. Stupid censorship.

PS: Can I say this out loud?

 

[Pirate]

Executor :
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pirate, you really should use the default font, putting the other ones hurts the reader's eyes and probably make them hate you just becasue of this visual attack.

lol, prob right. Bummer I like Book Antiqua, look's all fancypants!


EU's Most Wanted :
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Well its been a week or two now, so can the thread be re-opened or has the item been returned now? Seems the lollan thread is an acceptable one!

Good question about it being re-opened, viable I think. The item's have not been given back as of yet either >.<

too much political correctness in these situations no smoke without fire anyway.

Well said!

Nobleone :
--------------------------------------------------------------------

So now that John Capitol is on the same page as everyone else and is aware that a scam has happened why does he not just UNLOCK the original LOCKED thread?

Don't get me started on the jack boot moderation here...

Good question!


Norbert :
--------------------------------------------------------------------Monkey's + Dancing Smiley's alway's help! Thx


Shoti :
--------------------------------------------------------------------

this thread is not as bad as it looks. Orginaly closed one cant be "accidentaly" bumped so this one works perfectly as reminder.

As for john moderating, he is realy doing good job. He stick to rules, avoid them in realy necessary cases (aren"t we saint all ? no ? good ), he is objective as far as it is possible for human being.

Best prove of John's good will is that we can still post here.

Meat and potatoes of why I began the thread, your first statement. Perfectly said^^
And I'm sure John does well as a moderator, unfair that this happen's on a fury thread to him, really doesn't have a ton
to do with him as a person.

Anselme25 :
--------------------------------------------------------------------

Forum rules are not written in stone. They're made to be broken anyway. Stupid censorship.

PS: Can I say this out loud?

To hell with censorship, and masquerading behind a few PM's. Sometime's you have to hurt a few feeling's to get a important point across. Thx for the post^^

 

[Haxtor moogle]

To hell with censorship, and masquerading behind a few PM's. Sometime's you have to hurt a few feeling's to get a important point across. Thx for the post^^

why are you trying to make things so hard here?
first with the crappy fonts and boldness now this stupid ass shit with making your posts wide.

Seriously
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

this thread can only end in trouble fast. so please admins make this anarchy stop

 

[Pirate]

Apologies, it wasn't intentional to make it so wide....

Just had to make a lot of responses and did via notepad for the various quotes.
Kind of came out that way >.<. As for the anarchy, no one's upset here. Or
at least to my knowledge, just a simple thread made to remind others of the original one. Although it seems it came across as an attack against the mod's here, this
isn't the case atall. While I disagree with the mod's judgment call, I can't say
I have a thing in the world against him otherwise. Just wanted this thread to live longer, which I think it's managed to do now, and allow more people to see this, and realize they too can voice there opinion's, unafraid of retaliation so to
speak.

Thx for your post

 

[Pirate]

JohnCapitol >>

You can't possible believe that my closing that thread hurt Allnighter's rep, can you? Do you have any evidence of this?

Not necessarily, however sure I believe it can hurt his believability from the original post being locked. It's informative, and
a lot can relate, as well as learn from it.

Didn't ask for evidence, mate. I asked him to confront the person before making it public.

I understand your point John. You wanted to make sure there was validity of the claim before someone made a public
arguement about it.
If allnighter had made a bad claim, the poster's of EU would quickly voice there opinion's about it,
and the result is he would have hurt his own reputation by making the claim, in my opinion. Much like his first comment's
on the original post, before i made mentioned there was proof here, and people responded a little more positively
for allnighter, and his rather large ped loss.
Also, for those of you who are stuck in a situation similar, or encounter one : (possible thing to consider)
This is disaterous advice imo, lead's to fight or flight mode for the thief 9/10 times. Best case scenario, build a case
silently with screenshot's and lead on nothing has been realized beforehand, so that MA may have a chance to catch them
before the inevitable flight occur's. Most will realize after taking something, when confronted, that from then on, everything
they say or do is accountable, and thus will refrain from making contact back with the person, and plan a exit via stage left.

I see why you made your judgement call on the thread John, really I do. He probably could have come at the thread making
in a much better way, or waited some time before doing it, when he realized he had proof all along. That would have been
a bit informative. You made a judgement call on the thread, understandable. Now I ask, with proof provided, that all
thread's about this character be unlocked, or future thread's be given a hint more consideration before being locked

 

[Skaffen]

Puerocratic

You can't possible believe that my closing that thread hurt Allnighter's rep, can you? Do you have any evidence of this?



Now do you get it?

Yes it changes the impact of the thread - last word is what folks will leave with. (i.e Undue accusation - which it isn't)

Timeliness in identifying an active thief is v.important...shouldn't need to explain why, but perhaps you don't get it?

Remember John -'the road to hell is paved with good intentions'-...get your head out the rule book and your ass and apply some sense. Your a mod not a god, except your error in light of subsequent developments.

 

[jonvalle0226]

Sorry i haven't been on sooner to comment on the thread, but been busy irl.

1st - Space your without a doubt the coolest friend i've made in EU and i love the font took me 20 min to read 2 pages

2nd - I think what space is saying is that the fact that the thread was closed half way through talking about what happened and increasing support and awareness of the thread is what was wrong with the lock down. ( i know that it was somewhat against the rules and John does a great job at keeping the thread squeaky clean.)

3rd - I waited 3-4 days after the items were due back to me and no contact from "The Trust Scammer" before making the thread. I made the thread because i wanted to inform ppl just incase they had lent out items to him aswell and were sure not to if he got back on so i maybe did rush into things slightly.

4th and final - I have begun talking to "The Trust Scammer" about getting my items back, and he has confirmed that he stole my items for the reason that i've been too lucky in EU. I plan to update the community on what happens with my ... unfortunate...event in the near future.

 

[Pirate]

Np Allnighter, really hope it work's out for you man, it's such a tricky situation all around, and definitely unfortunate.

Many thank's as well to all the poster's of EU that took the time to share there idea's and thoughts here as well

Can't believe they blamed your luckiness, that's hilarious however. Sound's more like a thief with a conscience needed a self remedy to cope with the guilt of doing it in the first place. Let's just hope while they're coping with that cop-out, MA cope's them with a ban hammer and a forced refund.

 

[Emerald]

All I see in these threads, and from what I have been told is "normal" levels of bickering. People stealing, people fighting.. and hell even the forum moderators can't escape the gravity of negativity.

What is the point to what I say? For a game (most games supposed to be fun), I see a hell of a lot of unhappy people.[/I]

TWD, the ones you are talking about - many of them are having a great time. There are folks that live, eat and breathe drama. If you don't believe it, watch some of the tell all "true drama" on daytime television, or the survival shows on night time TV.

I know that both you and I know it is not supposed to be this way, but it is. So all I do in the face of it, is try to maintain my own positve playful attitude. Everytime my attitude survives an onslaught of the drama queens, I consider it a win!

 

[dotc0m]

so is the scammer cherry or the Knight of Calypso member?

Because if u borrowed stuff to cherry, u are dumb... shes been involved with other scam before.

if its the other member... SPREAD THE INFO, this soc is supposed to be reputable... and give more info about it... what is happening what is she saying about the item?

 

[Ratez]

so is the scammer cherry or the Knight of Calypso member?

Because if u borrowed stuff to cherry, u are dumb... shes been involved with other scam before.

if its the other member... SPREAD THE INFO, this soc is supposed to be reputable... and give more info about it... what is happening what is she saying about the item?

This scam happened slightly before the revelation.

 

[dotc0m]

This scam happened slightly before the revelation.

????????? what?

 

[Ratez]

????????? what?

This scam happened when no one knew about her as being a scammer.

 

[dotc0m]

it depend on who... i asked as who is the scammer, and didnt got a awnser yet... that romanian girl as been kicked out of 2 soc and been known as scammer for more than a year now.

If its the KoC member, thats different ofc.