Am I getting scammed for 200K? Help please!

[Oleg]

I didn't see this op outright saying anything inflamatory, or claiming MA is at fault.

The title of the thread alone is inflammatory.

 

[timmmers]

At the end of the day, the fault here is MA/FPC allowing banned avas ingame and not having a way to see if they slip through...do you know when your friends login, yep, so it's easy to track using similar methods for a banned ava.

Today I could meet a banned ava that I don't know from Adam..and as a result be locked or worse for no fault of my own..it could happen to anyone since the items can pass a few hands in their travels. Trouble for everyone except one in the chain...the people who couldn't keep banned people banned. The banned guys could have logged in and found empty storages ...easy to replace the gear if the matter resolves in their favour yet not possible to sell if they ain't there.

Given where the fault lies it seems fair to communicate with the persons involved and even warn the rest of us to be wary doesn't it?

All this and MA still get support? I don't see how they deserve it for causing so much grief with their bugs allowing this to happen at all.

t

 

[Shew]

The title of the thread alone is inflammatory.

I see a question. Asking is not stating.

I did go further in other post

I didn't see this op outright saying anything inflamatory, or claiming MA is at fault.

I do see her wondering if she should be worried or concerned (questioning the honesty and asking about contacting Swedish Police about company scamming her). She is asking for input from others, that's better than just acting on those thoughts. It's a way of checking one's thoughts and actions.

I noted it could be objectionable, but in that situation, people do tend to panic. We're not talking a $1,000 or $2,000 account, but a large one, and with payments hanging over her head.

When people are put into tough situations, not all can maintain composure. You never know until you are put in that or a similiar situation.

 

[Oleg]

I see a question. Asking is not stating.

I did go further in other post



I noted it could be objectionable, but in that situation, people do tend to panic. We're not talking a $1,000 or $2,000 account, but a large one, and with payments hanging over her head.

When people are put into tough situations, not all can maintain composure. You never know until you are put in that or a similiar situation.

You're missing the point. If you put the words "scammed for 200k" in the title, it doesn't matter a bit what you write in the first post, it's already inflammatory.

 

[Shew]

You're missing the point. If you put the words "scammed for 200k" in the title, it doesn't matter a bit what you write in the first post, it's already inflammatory.

I see your point.

But, "Scammed for 200k" is not the same as

Am I getting scammed for 200K ? Help please !

In that I see A LOT of desperation.

 

[Rayne Jade]

You're missing the point. If you put the words "scammed for 200k" in the title, it doesn't matter a bit what you write in the first post, it's already inflammatory.

Yeah, I agree. That is like the tactic of making the newspaper headline read:

"Senator not named in sex scandal"

 

[Oleg]

Yeah, I agree. That is like the tactic of making the newspaper headline read:

"Senator not named in sex scandal"

Have you stopped beating your wife?

 

[J. Mandrake]

maybe u should of explained how u got that mod fap and mod merc and shadow armour and wat ever else u got and the my freind borrowed it off me long ago and wanted to give it back with a big thx and srry it took so long to give back answer smells like bs

What language is this man speaking? I'm gonna try and translate for everybody.

You should explain how you got the mod fap, mod merc, and shadow armor (and some other assorted items) which my friend had borrowed from me a long time ago and OOOGABOOGA I ACCUSE U.

Of what, exactly, do you accuse this honest banker, kind sir?

EDIT: Hmm, I seem to have quoted an old post... maybe? I can't find it again, anyways.

 

[Lavawalker]

You're missing the point. If you put the words "scammed for 200k" in the title, it doesn't matter a bit what you write in the first post, it's already inflammatory.

The title of the thread alone is inflammatory.

Well duh! rocket scientist - In times of desperation people are most likely to be REAL and ask directly based on the situation they have been put in - In this case, a desperate one where revenue pays the RL financial bank commitments.

ie. Locked without proper communication saying (After being followed up) there is an internal investigation going on and nothing else - Like WTF is that, seriously!

I see your point.

But, "Scammed for 200k" is not the same as

In that I see A LOT of desperation.

Like any normal person would who was left for the most part in the dark after paying 200,000 USD (2 Mil PED) for an owned investment they are being restricted of access to without adequate reason given.

Even though Oleg is pointing out the obvious (And amusing people by being an asshat in doing so), he would be doing exactly the same if it was his real life home (Bricks & Mortar) that was backing the real life bank loan that financed the purchase of the 200,000 USD MindArk Virtual Bank Licence.

In the end, this all has come down to extremely poor methodology & communication in handling business affairs MindArk side.

Below is some rocket science stuff MA should further consider as they mature in time as a financial platform provider.

Phone rings or personal email sent:

Hi Jolana,

We would like to inform you as one of the Bank, LA, Hangar, Spacestation, Mall invested owners on Planet Calypso and/or flagged in our database with virtual assets and/or PED equity of a cummulative market value in excess of 50,000 PED, that the system has locked your account.

This contact is to let you know the such has occured;

We are further looking into the reasons why this has occured and shall be in contact with you in the near future with the findings of our investigation as to why your account was locked in the investigation process underway.

Kind Regards,
Entropia Support.

The total effect of this outcry and the reprecussions of legal advise being sort is only of MA's own doing. No one else is at fault for what is occuring here 'in lue of' the outcome of the investigation underway.

Issues caused by MindArk's own doing - Really what do they expect - People to sit and eat candy that this 'EVEN HAD THE POTENTIAL' of occuring in the first place.

All it does is totally devalues any truth in statements like this:

http://www.mindark.se/partners/entropia-universe-platfor/safety-security/

Safety & Security
Employing the most up-to-date (Seriously ?) information-centric security solutions including real-time monitoring, (Seems very real time to me after the situation progressed as far as it did with so many becoming caught up in what has transpired) extensive logging (Right - And this is why some participants have been directly asked by MA officials about that which can not be properly tracked due to not being logged properly) and powerful back-end tools, Mindark maintain the integrity of the Entropia Universe Platform at a comparative level with today’s financial services organizations. (However unlike today's financial services organisations - Without any proper communication in the process with those affected by the process)

Socially sensitive content including gambling or sexually explicit themes are not permitted in Entropia Universe.

They can't even get this part right - Displaying full heartedly the double standards they work by - Boorum & even Feffs, though not as defined have now got a big pink dick and balls that sit in your face while attacking it.

In order to ensure high standards, (Please stop making me piss myself laughing already - Get your act together MindArk and come up to standards which are comparative to what you have stated in the service your trying to sell to others!) protect copyrights and maintain the successful business model Mindark has strategically decided not to implement and entirely open architecture. User generated content is however permitted in selected predefined systems.

Anyway, enough of this crap - Let us let MindArk do their job and we shall see what comes about after this mess has been resolved.

Please put this whole ordeal of your OWN OPERATING FLIPPANCY AND NOBODY ELSES to bed soon MindArk before the media makes a real circus out of it !

And please make a media release PR statement to address the issue once the case is resolved to clear up the damaging rumors & speculation !!.

 

[Aly]

Oh dear..
(WARNING: essay to follow )

Firstly;
To those of you stating that a lock during investigation without being given information on the case (yes i’ll grant your point that it inspires the ‘guilty until proven innocent’ mentality) is not proportional to RL and completely unreasonable,
Let me give two RL examples where this is EXACTLY what happens;

1.Most offshore private banks have a lock without communication policy on all occasions relating to potentially fraudulent/questionable account activities (Haven’t worked for every bank in the world so can’t speak for all of them.. but can speak with experience for most offshore private banks)
If any fraudulent/questionable (yes, this is INTENTIONALLY vague) activities are witnessed on accounts then they are immediately frozen and no communication is provided.
Next time the individual goes to use their account the card/log in is confiscated and they receive a message to contact their bank.
The bank WILL NOT release any information to do with the investigation as ANY information can potentially cause additional issues and the bank can be at risk of being held accountable for ‘not doing everything in their power to prevent fraudulent/questionable activities’ (among other things) Of course, sometimes it is the case that releasing general information as to why the freeze occured is possible (as in the example in the above post), but a blanket 'no information' policy is the easier option and more common in these situations.
In this situation however, the company imposing the freeze, would expect a damages claim if the individual turns out to be innocent and a loss of income/undue stress claim can be proven.

2. Several governments can and will confiscate all of your possessions and lock you up with NO information, without ANY PROOF for up to 8 days (recently reduced). They just have to say they suspect you of terrorism and all your rights are forfeited, whether they can provide any evidence as to why they suspect this or not

Although I personally hate that this is commonplace, it nonetheless is.. and for good reason.

Bringing it back to EU; If an account is locked their policy simply MUST be that they cannot provide any details relating to the investigation until the investigation is complete.
To do so, would inevitably result in a high risk of legal/publicity issues.
For example; Say MA responds to the locked avatar by stating that they have locked you as you are suspected of using bots (see the post above referencing 'guilty by association' situations).
This can then be publicised as ‘MA accuses me of using bots’. If upon the completion of the investigation, the individual turns out to be innocent, they DO have grounds to sue. (Not the best example granted, but just trying to keep it simple)
No information is wholeheartedly more intelligent and common practice policy in investigations of a sensitive nature.

The only issue I have is the amount of time it takes MA to investigate these cases. IMO there should be a much shorter time frame in place as policy.
Of course, what ‘should be’ and the obtainable reality are often very different things. (Especially in a virtual universe where trying to conduct any investigation is often fraught with ALOT of time consuming delays)
Investigations resulting in a prolonged lock of an account that subsequently turns out to be innocent should expect damages claims as a result. Of course, they are not automatically required to pay these damages, but there would be legal ground for the ‘victim’ to pursue a claim legally. The company would then take the gamble of whether it’s smarter to pay the damages or not.
(Common policy is to pay out a sum when the individual can prove loss of income and the cost of damages is relatively easy to absorb. But this varies greatly from company to company)

Now, please note I HAVE been in the situation where I’ve had all company assets frozen during an investigation in which I was confirmed to be completely innocent (Stolen funds laundered to the point where they could not be detectible by my company was used as payment to my company.. upon my innocence being confirmed, damages were paid)

Of course it is a nightmare when you have any assets frozen without reason, when you KNOW you are innocent of any wrongdoing (As was the case in the example i give above.. not so sure it’s the case here)
But running to the press/public forum will often cause you more harm than good.
In fact, all you CAN do is provide any information as requested, state that you will be claiming damages for loss of income (if you can prove it) if the investigation takes an unreasonable length of time and... wait.

It’s extremely frustrating.. I can very much relate to those saying ‘but why can’t they just tell me why?!’
They can’t.. for many reasons.. accept this.. put together a damages claim if you feel it is warranted (and you have solid evidence to do so) and wait for the investigation to be completed.
You can of course hire a lawyer and shout and scream until your throat hurts, but it’s unlikely to do you any good.

To those who are accusing MA of wrongdoing in these cases;
I disagree with most of your reasoning, however do feel some of you have posted valid points and agree to an extent;
Personally, I feel they take FAR too long to settle these type of situations and the type of communication provided is abysmal, therefore they often leak into the public view with a very distorted perspective (ie. one side of the story)
This DOES affect future business (in fact these locks and 2 other major recent issues with EU have already caused two very large (over 1.2million USD) deals that I am aware of to fall through at such a late stage of completion that a fallout is very rare and is directly related to how MA has handled these issues)

Essentially;
The OP may or may not be guilty/deserve the lock
We do not know
But either way, while an investigation of a sensitive nature (which it obviously is.. just look at this thread ) is ongoing, neither the OP nor the public should expect or claim any rights to specific details relating to the case.
Of course, it would be nice, but it would be pure stupidity on MAs part to do so.

Do I think they can and should handle these things better? Of course.. so..

Suggested improvement:
-When an avatar is locked; State a projected time frame for an update to be given to the locked avatar (doesn’t have to be a date for investigation to be complete, understandably that often isn’t possible, but a date for update is reasonable and risk free).

-Hire someone with some communication skills to handle communication with the locked account (ie. the robotic responses just cause more headaches)

MA can still provide no details pertaining to the case, but by giving the locked individual a contact who will actually explain these things (even if it is just explaining why they cannot give any specific information and why it is taking so long/Provide reassurance that they will be able to give you more information as soon as the investigation is complete etc.) would go a LONG way to preventing the loss of faith and bad publicity that MA often receives.


Finally; Please please please make sure you have someone asking the important questions BEFORE you release a VU
Questions include (but are not limited to);
-Are banned avatars still unable to log in?
-Have we made sure that large items (ie. LAs) will still satisfy their initial purpose/be of functional design
-Have we checked that everything being changed/implimented will not have any major unforseen impacts on the inworld economy (some impact is inevitable.. unknown ones are dangerous)


Sorry for the essay.. but I couldn’t not respond to this one

Cheers ,

Aly

 

[Lavawalker]

MA can still provide no details pertaining to the case, but by giving the locked individual a contact who will actually explain these things (even if it is just explaining why they cannot give any specific information and why it is taking so long) would go a LONG way to preventing the loss of faith and bad publicity that MA often receives.

Yes, agreed, this is what has really pissed me off this time with MindArk.

Their general modus operandi with the way they do things - It is fucked up!

What investor is going to invest with a company that continues to destructively operate - Killing their own business due to their lack of 'duty of care' when it comes to handling such issues.

Simply PROACTIVELY communicate MA!
Doing so would not have lead to all this mess
& the above image MA keeps creating for itself.

This is totally unacceptable in any financial investment service business:

i just sent support after support, called them, then later got mad and sent pm to Marco which said that he was familiar with the case
and that 3 weeks was too much and shouldnt be put in dark for that long and next day i got unlocked.i dont know the full story of items after i transfered them off my account, as i heard some got sold and some traded.

 

[Gurre]

This needs Bump
for reading later when the rainydays comes

 

[Igorl]

I really hope this resolves for the best for Jolana.

I yet find fascinating that ppl are said:

1) We can lock you anytime for no reason
2) You dont own anything, everything is owned by Mindark, except last 6 mths of deposits
3) We may or may not explain what happened

...and STILL they put in enormous amount of money in this GAME.

I.

 

[Oleg]

Even though Oleg is pointing out the obvious (And amusing people by being an asshat in doing so), he would be doing exactly the same if it was his real life home (Bricks & Mortar) that was backing the real life bank loan that financed the purchase of the 200,000 USD MindArk Virtual Bank Licence.

Please don't tell me what I would or wouldn't do. It's a very annoying habit.

Feel free to tell them what you would do, but you do not know me, you do not speak for me, and you are wrong.

 

[Nexus6]

I've been reading some pages, and i cant seem to find any discussion as of what may be the reason behind Jolana's ban? im gonna quote

"^&"#¤)* n company got unbanned by mistake during VU10 and contacted some old friends trying to move their gear from their unbanned avatars incase they would get rebanned.

However I must say someone at ^&"#¤)* must have failed extremely hard to manage to unlock pretty much all of em at once. ^&"#¤)* tracked down the items by serialnumbers and locked everyone who touched them, however ^&"#¤)* does not know how they were transfered/sold so they are asking the people who traded them how they got it. Apparently logging trades aint done anymore.

Some of the people posting they got locked at the same time is people who used to be in same soc as the bothunters (for instance ^&"#¤)* was in ** and ^&"#¤)* was in ^&"#¤)*) so they are not innocent bystanders.

I bet there are some people that got locked not knowing the items was possibly "hot" but ^&"#¤)* n ^&"#¤)* should have known better for instance

PS. The monkeys on ^&"#¤)* seem to have forgotten why ^&"#¤)* n Company was banned in the first place so maybe someone should remind them that they grinded longus with imk2's n mod mercs afk for 100+ hours a week getting great profits n skills. ^&"#¤)* even passed ^&"#¤)* in profstand until he got banned"

Could this maybee have something to do with it?

 

[CycoKick]

Enough said..

 

[Lee]

Don't you play the game or read the notices... it's going to take at least three months to fully implement VU10.... which encompasses CE2 and have all of the basic components and systems up... and to have them running at full capacity... before new content and/or system changes are made...

You and your professional malcontent of 50 or so friends should stop trying to make trouble, based on negative speculations, like you always do, where there really is none and no need to... most of it is based not on facts... or objective understanding of the actual situations past of present... but your inbred negative feeding off each others need to endlessly regurgitate without presenting any evidence... your distorted... past as prologue nonsense...

And before begin with your ususal you weren't there... you little uber friends arrogantly told me... to look it up I warned you that I would and I did... the advantage of not being ther is the advantage of seeing things wiht a fresh eye and from an objective outside point of view...

So if it offends you to have the light of positive reason shown on you little negative charade... so be it...

Excuse me? What the hell are you on about? Do I know you? Do you know me? I don't appreciate the comments above in response to my post that seem very insulting and have no relation to reality that I am aware of. I am aware of course that I am now added to your trolling list of people to harass on posts, profiles, and in pms, but I don't want to play thanks, I have a life and a brain. But the above response to me is completely tripping, reported.

PS as suggested I've now used the ignore feature for the first time in my years on EF, so if there is a reply I must leave it to someone else to answer as hopefully I won't see it

 

[Centech]

"Yo Jolana, I feel bad for you, and I'ma let you finish, but Bernie Madoff pulled one of the best scams OF ALL TIME!!"

 

[Xzion]

So, how are things progressing?

 

[Snuggins]

I've read a lot of people complaining that MA is incompetent if they allowed these banned avatars to log back in, but I think perhaps it could have been a "sting" operation. Let them on and see if they can resist moving their items to their new avatars and then you finally have grounds for banning the accounts they opened in their family members' names.

 

[SpikeBlack]

Whats strange about this is that they can't do this when people are scammed - 'All trades are final' or when accounts are hacked.

And I thought after 18months of inactivity all items are tt'd

 

[Xzion]

I've read a lot of people complaining that MA is incompetent if they allowed these banned avatars to log back in, but I think perhaps it could have been a "sting" operation. Let them on and see if they can resist moving their items to their new avatars and then you finally have grounds for banning the accounts they opened in their family members' names.

Nah, that wouldnt be fair play.
That would be a childs mind-game.

Allow people online again and you can assume that they intentionally unlocked your account = you are allowed to use your account again and do what you like..

 

[Outman]

Bottom line is any time MA messes up, players will pay for it. Many of us haven't been burned yet, but it will happen.

By the way anyone notice that when stuff goes wrong Marc disappears, only to reappear when stuff is better?

 

[Shezzle]

Good God hope your honest in ur innocence?????

Dam ya think they'd have more about em than that, watever happened to inocent till proven guilty or is it they run there business like a dictatorship?Lockin one of there big investers out without real justification or comment is laughable in my mind.. fills ya with buckets of confidence that MA can act that way even when its big fish any likely future investors are now counting there blessings n headin for the hills in retreat.. Bit of savvy would be to lock items to him while investigation underway so he cant offload in meantime if he does turn out guilty, maybe thats ur answer MA save puttin loyal folk threw the mill as in other cases! Another banking collapse(not IRL this time) is on the cards as risk grows & rewards dont.. C'mon DCI Marco or whoevers on the case this dudes not guilty yet is he? All eyes on this one n your handling of it, bankers beware my advice or 2pence worth
Good luck, godspeed.
P.s Nowt wrong with treatin this account holder with preferential treatment in my mind as he's got the $$$ to demand it unless its a sweat to a bank thing like sweat to a hanger!! seriously all the best n yep im subscibed for common sense solution end of the day.. Now better read responses incase im lost the plot as only read OP

 

[Xzion]

I dont think the persons who gets locked are innocent, there is a resone behind it, always.
But... info would be nice from MA.

 

[NotVF]

<removed...>

 

[Inifus]

I dont think the persons who gets locked are innocent, there is a resone behind it, always.
But... info would be nice from MA.

Exactly, there is a reason behind the lock (it isn't a ban yet, so guilt is yet-to-be determined). The problem is that they are being very vague as to why, so the OP can't do anything to help cooperate with the investigation or offer any evidence in their defense. I also can't comprehend what is taking so long for them to investigate this if they have "extensive logs" like they claim to keep. My job has me working with hundreds of law enforcement agencies every day, so I've seen the investigation process first hand and can tell you that I've seen !!!!, murder, an child pornography cases have full investigation and formal indictments in less time than this. MA/FPC is just taking their sweet time while the OP's investments are stuck in limbo and no explanation beyond "we're investigating" has been given - that is the problem.

The great thing about a game like this is that everything is on a server, the search area is defined, and logs are available. There are very few reasons why this "investigation" would/should take as long as it has, so perhaps a bit more expedience should be expected. I've said it before, I'll say it again - this just needs to be solved quickly, before it gets more public than just EF and ends up painting MA/FPC in a bad light, regardless of if the lock is valid or not.

 

[vet]

too long thread.

but i think all of them should go to the court - that's only way for them

 

[Kimmi]

By the way anyone notice that when stuff goes wrong Marc disappears, only to reappear when stuff is better?

best post I have seen in months

 

[cozmoz]

well its my pesonal expierence that in dealing with ma that this is all a scam to get our money, I have had more problems costing me ped that is thier fault in thier non tested vu 10, i have ongoing support cases and have dumped more money into this game in all of my 20 years of gaming history totalled. and the end result is THEY DONT CARE AT ALL!!! Luckily for me im getting bored with entropia and that I will be gaining some esi and selling out soon. Sorry about your losses as they are probably bigger than mine but my advise would be sell out fast and recoup what you can. Then hope for the class action lawsuits that wil be coming im sure.