Am I getting scammed for 200K? Help please!

[Leona]

Can you tell me one case from the past where an player got locked / banned without MA giving an reason?

Do a search on Locked in the thread title, in ascending order.

A lot. Some bogus, some legitimate, some questionable.

Shew, don't babble, you clearly claimed MA does and did lock accounts without giving any reason to the account holder. Now come up with some examples. Some are currently under investigation and we know only hearsay what is going on, but my question was: Name some examples from the past where an player got locked / banned without an given reason from MA.

Can you mention a case they have given a resone in to make the accused person know what it is all about?
I dont see any of those.

This is not about locking people for the right resones and not letting the person know.
Its about letting people know why they are locked.

One case? Plenty. Actually i never did hear about an reliable case where someone got locked / banned without giving an reason by MA. How about you read the threads you post in for an first example?

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/2083812-post35.html

So guys please stop spreading nonsense unless you can come up with some examples. Talking about MA could handle those cases better / more fair / faster is really fine, but don't spread lies and FUD guys.

 

[Morat]

What I think a lot of people are missing is that the specific case is irrelevant. What is relevant is the way MA behave.

They are effectively judge and jury. This is an internal investigation and therefore they can come up with whatever result they want in what ever time frame they want.

This could happen to you - and if it was some thousands of dollars over some years you would probably bitch a lot but realise the cost of getting a lawyer involved was impractical. MA wins.

If its a lot of money then you will probably spend on a lawyer and MA will probably release your account because in reality unless it is a CC fraud perpetrated by yourself then they are never going to demonstrate any criminal act to a judges satisfaction. Its not as if MA loose anything in this situation is it? Any money withdrawn has been deposited by someone - it doesn't come out of MA's pocket.

So the best they could say is we think you broke our rules so you are banned. But again a Judge is going to say that blocking someones access to assets worth 200K is unreasonable because you MA have incurred no loss - it would amount to theft or fraud in many juridictions.

So, end of the day the only losers are going to be the small people who get caught up in these judge and jury situations and for whom the cost of redress is too high.

MA really need proper contracts with people if they are going to solicit significant sums from people. They really need an independent arbitration procedure - and I say this for MA's benefit.

If they don't resolve this situation and they end up in court they will lose, they will get significant bad press and sooner or later some internet hating politician is going to pick it up and then MA's fat fill really be in the fire.

 

[Shew]

Shew, don't babble, you clearly claimed MA does and did lock accounts without giving any reason to the account holder. Now come up with some examples. Some are currently under investigation and we know only hearsay what is going on, but my question was: Name some examples from the past where an player got locked / banned without an given reason from MA.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-discussion/33072-account-locked.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-discussion/42441-my-account-locked.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-discussion/43886-locked-account.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/security/66592-account-locked.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/security/80264-my-account-has-been-locked.html

MANY MORE, if you just do a search.

In the search sure some are bogus, and some are someone that is in the wrong pissing because they got caught, some didn't know things were wrong because of grey area, others have no idea.

The common theme, initially the person doesn't KNOW WHY, just that they are locked. At that point they are on the proving end that they did nothing wrong.

Compare that to a cop arresting you, putting you in jail, without initially telling you why, just that they are investigating something. In the mean time, your freedom and life are on hold until they complete their investigation. That is not the way it should work.

Morat is dead on with the key issue +Rep

Some can't comprehend the gravity of this particular incident. Perhaps you've never had a significant financial loss and don't know the anguish.

People have committed suicide for financial situations like this. And if you think nothing can be bad enough to think suicide, then you've never had it bad enough. That's not condoning it, just that I understand that state of mind, and at that point, people aren't thinking clearly don't see a way out.

One thing for sure, that I see based on some people's response, if things aren't changed, and safeguards added, people won't be "investing" large sums of money anymore.

 

[Morss]

maybe u should of explained how u got that mod fap and mod merc and shadow armour and wat ever else u got and the my freind borrowed it off me long ago and wanted to give it back with a big thx and srry it took so long to give back answer smells like bs

I didnt got any mod merc, shadow or whatver you having in mind.
Yes i got my imk2 back from person who was locked some time ago and there was not anything like sorry or so. I was told to wait, till its sorted out and i was waiting. I also got promise to get compensation if i not gonna get my imk2 back. When i got back my gun, last thing in my mind was about some exploit, since i am IT related person, i prety much uunderstand how imposible is to log in locked account if its locked And tbh - at that point i was happy enought just with fact i got back what i was waiting for some time.
And i dont feel quilty or bad about anything here. I am prety much sure in my position you will feel prety much same way!

 

[Casay]

MindArk does not lock accounts for no reason. An internal investigation is currently being processed and the involved parties have been informed of this. When the investigation is closed, the involved parties will be notified.

Thanks for taking the time to post.

 

[Inifus]

The common theme, initially the person doesn't KNOW WHY, just that they are locked. At that point they are on the proving end that they did nothing wrong.

Compare that to a cop arresting you, putting you in jail, without initially telling you why, just that they are investigating something. In the mean time, your freedom and life are on hold until they complete their investigation. That is not the way it should work.

Exactly the reason many people have been "bashing" on MA/FPC. In many countries, for an investigating agency to seize your property, you must be provided with probable cause - the reason they believe your property is evidence. The only time they won't tell you is if revealing the reason would jeopardize the investigation due to potential evidence tampering or flight from prosecution. Being that neither is possible with an account lock, there is no reason that MA/FPC can't tell them what charge they are being investigated on. Had the lock only been a couple days or even a week, this could have been overlooked, but after a month it is getting ridiculous.

I'm not saying the OP is innocent, nor am I saying they are guilty, just that it is bad of MA/FPC to not give them more information other than "there is an internal investigation". If I were in the OP's situation and things were as they have been stated, I would be deciding who to contact first - the Associated Press or Reuters. No lawsuit can ever be as damaging to a company as negative publicity can be - why do you think that so many lawsuits against companies are settled silently behind closed doors and out of the public eye? If I had $200,000 locked up for a month with no reason given beyond "we're conducting an investigation" and had been told that they wouldn't talk to me, so send a lawyer, I would be going on a heavy offensive against the company which obviously doesn't want to work with me to reach a resolution.

I just hope that MA/FPC finishes with this business sooner rather than later, regardless of what the outcome is - ban or unlock, just pick a fucking horse and ride it.

 

[strakkan]

.....

IT´S ALIVE

 

[Elfie]

If I was the thread starter I would contact every tv station, every radio station and every newspaper that would listen, that way it would attract the attention of politicians, lawyers, trading rights people and so on. Then, it would not be long before such people began their own investigation into the procedures of MA and the contract they have with people investing such large sums. MA should not be conducting their own investigation into such matters where such large sums are concerned without an arbitary 3rd party with no interest either way watching what they were doing and stating if the procedure is fair or not. Get the press involved thread starter IMAOP

 

[Rayne Jade]

Thats just an wild guess Brooklyn, but of course you might very well be right here. My impression is that the OP knows very well how to play with the EF crowd and did try to put some public pressure on MA.

Totally agree, Leona. Something overlooked (among other things) is that we are only getting one side the story. Some here are having a lynch mob mentality toward MA without proof or evidence that MA did something wrong. All that is public about this is what the OP posted, and I strongly feel there is something shady in background. Of course, we will never get the real story because MA|FPC is acting correctly by not stating the reasons for the lock(s). At this point it seems the OP can post whatever he/she wants regarding this case and it will be accepted by a lot of people here as the gospel. Such a shame.

MindArk does not lock accounts for no reason. An internal investigation is currently being processed and the involved parties have been informed of this. When the investigation is closed, the involved parties will be notified.

While this is certainly appreciated, the intelligent portion of the community knows this already. We are not all wearing tinfoil hats.

 

[Kitty]

If I was the thread starter I would contact every tv station, every radio station and every newspaper that would listen, that way it would attract the attention of politicians, lawyers, trading rights people and so on. Then, it would not be long before such people began their own investigation into the procedures of MA and the contract they have with people investing such large sums. MA should not be conducting their own investigation into such matters where such large sums are concerned without an arbitary 3rd party with no interest either way watching what they were doing and stating if the procedure is fair or not. Get the press involved thread starter IMAOP

If she knowingly did something wrong, this would NOT be a good idea for her.
She needs to take her private business and keep it that, private. If she is really worried, she would have already hired a lawyer.
There is more to the story than just the ONE side.
It is nothing more than a witch hunt if you or anyone judges without facts.

 

[Leona]

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-discussion/33072-account-locked.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-discussion/42441-my-account-locked.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/general-discussion/43886-locked-account.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/security/66592-account-locked.html

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/security/80264-my-account-has-been-locked.html

MANY MORE, if you just do a search.

Many thanks for throwing random links of threads at me that you did not even bother to read. Yes, Mindark / FPC should improve quality and speed on communication in lot of cases. But your claim that MA locks people and doesn't give reason to them is still FUD. Actually most of your links proof that if you would bother to read them.

 

[Rayne Jade]

If I was the thread starter I would contact every tv station, every radio station and every newspaper that would listen, that way it would attract the attention of politicians, lawyers, trading rights people and so on. Then, it would not be long before such people began their own investigation into the procedures of MA and the contract they have with people investing such large sums. MA should not be conducting their own investigation into such matters where such large sums are concerned without an arbitary 3rd party with no interest either way watching what they were doing and stating if the procedure is fair or not. Get the press involved thread starter IMAOP

Ok... take a step back and think about why the OP did NOT do that... Why did the OP pick EntropiaForum to bring this to light? Could it be because the current climate with the CE2 bugs fosters the "I hate MA" attitude? Could it be because there was some very suspect activity going on that would have legal issues if the OP did contact all those people you mentioned?

There is a motivation behind everything people do... good or bad.

The OP should just come clean... what happened? What did you trade and with whom? Most of the story is already known... just fill in the blanks.

 

[aia]

MANY MORE, if you just do a search.

In a lot of those cases the OP finds out, by searching his memory, why he got locked. It's usually things like "I got the username/password from someone met, I logged in usign that account and took a look at inventory" (ie having the fingers down in someone elses cookie jar) or for having multiple accounts.

There are a few exceptions where people has been locked for vague reasons, like TPing to rig one time and accidently landing in a spawn of trox and support dept was on bad mood that day, but that kind of lock is luckily only temporary and rare. I got the feeling most people who create "wtf am I locked I did nothing wrong" threads do know why they are locked but they are hoping for an uproar to make MA lift the ban.

As far as I know, I haven't heard the OP yet telling me if he/she did do something, like having been part of some trade, that could have awaken MAs interest.

People have committed suicide for financial situations like this.

I have a prejudice when it comes to top-10 soc people; that is that the value of their items (and skills) is far above what they have deposited. That they got most of their items pre-2005, in some cases with unorthox methods, and then have been on top since. (Knowing ofc this does not apply to *all* high level people - there are a few that has deposited tons and bought skills/gear. When it comes to stretching the rules, my guess is that people who did invest/deposit tons to get where they are are more careful with what they do, than people who got where they are "for free" (only spending time).

Once again, since the other banks are managed by special "bank owning" avatars, it would be interesting to know if "Jolana Kitty Bryce" is an avatar who only is supposed to be holding the bank deed (like NDs "Bank Banker Manager"), or if it is a real avatar (owned by a player who has no other avatar).

 

[Oleg]

You realise that a more proactive approach would be sufficiant to stop threads like this, right "MAsupport"?
It's all been coming out due to people panicking over your lack of communication.
GL sorting this all out!

No, it's come to this because Jolana posted a one-sided and hysterical thread accusing MA of theft, and then other people like yourself have continued with equally hysterical and ill-informed posts inflaming the situation.

The one official post is probably the most calm and measured post in the entire thread, and it's certainly more helpful than your calls to immediate legal action (Don't want to take responsibility for your own actions? Sue someone!).

I'm sure the situation will be resolved at some point. The angry mob aren't going to help it get to that point. If anything it'll slow things down. MA are not going to carry out a private investigation on a public forum. To do so would be tremendously unethical.

I think you should all stop being so silly.

 

[Kerham]

What I think a lot of people are missing is that the specific case is irrelevant. What is relevant is the way MA behave.

They are effectively judge and jury. This is an internal investigation and therefore they can come up with whatever result they want in what ever time frame they want.

Your post is a bit.. well, bs.

First of all, there is a solid reason for an internal investigation: most probably, the banned/locked botters were able to login due to a database failure. Be it some logistic cause, be it expiring some registration, some flag etc. They need to clarify that, in what measure it was a coincidence.

Moreover, "Jolana" won't have "her" funds scammed and is a cheap bs propaganda to say that. A bit of common sense, reading EULA and basics law knowledge will tell you that even in the eventuality of termination of "her" account, "she" will be reimbursed at least her deposits.

It is very normal that all parties involved were locked. Imagine this:

- avatar Z locked suddenly is able to login
- he transfers his, for instance, imk2, to an innocent banker (who considers Z how "she" said? "Honorable member of community" or what? Anybody remembers that style?)
- the innocent banker unknowingly about the "hot" status of the imk2 promises to sell it to random rich newb at the premium price of 110,000 PED.
- even worse, the banker eventually sets up a partly IRL deal in which the rich newb is ready to pay the 11,000$ via, say, PayPal
- MindArk finds out about this but doesn't lock the respective accounts, because the community would be gay and impressed and will cry about it
- the rich newb pays, either ingame either IRL
- MindArk finalises the investigation and has the following options:

a) reverse the trade if it was done ingame, anyway newb losses the fee
b) sticks a finger in the ass if the deal was out of the game

And this applies to any of the parties involved, with, of course, sensibly differentiated degrees of *guilt*, and to all items involved which could change dozens of owners in a few days, leading to a complete mess.

Locking them fast was THE obvious thing to do until all shit is cleared up.

As for MindArk communicating public any kind of information about the case, to any third party except the parties involved and the eventual authorities involved, would imply in a certain degree privacy infringement and could have their asses kicked from here to Bahamas and backwards, up to losing the right of owning IRL privacy database which would be similar to business termination.


WTF, is not rocket science, are you all payed to write these stupidities or are genuinely stupid?

 

[aridash]

Thats normal procedure in any company if the situation is legally delicate. It also tells me that we only know an part of the story, and that is to expect as MA can't talk about it in public.

no, normal procedure in a complaint is to inform the person involved that there is a complaint and it is being investigated; if it is legally delicate then a lwayer drafts the mail to say this. not simply lock accounts left and right with no infomation. the irony is, had they communicated to the locked avatars we would probably not have this in the public domain.

 

[Kerham]

no, normal procedure in a complaint is to inform the person involved that there is a complaint and it is being investigated; if it is legally delicate then a lwayer drafts the mail to say this. not simply lock accounts left and right with no infomation. the irony is, had they communicated to the locked avatars we would probably not have this in the public domain.

Erm legally speaking the content itself of the login window "your account is locked, please contact support" or whatever it says is the very information to the participant that it is an investigation undergo.

The reasons itself, if it really wasn't communicated, might be very well unclear to MindArk too and that is possible. In what degree was the part involved, what degree of intention and preparation so on and so forth.

 

[LostInEntropia]

just mail them that you want to depo another 200K but that you can't login, it will be sorted in no time I'm sure

 

[Leona]

no, normal procedure in a complaint is to inform the person involved that there is a complaint and it is being investigated; if it is legally delicate then a lwayer drafts the mail to say this. not simply lock accounts left and right with no infomation. the irony is, had they communicated to the locked avatars we would probably not have this in the public domain.

Sure, but first you and me don't know what information the OP did or did not get from MA (not that i doubt they are slackly with communication sometimes). Look at Akoz post: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/2083812-post35.html. An example how MA communicates in such cases.

Did the OP not get such an inquiry? Or did she just not tell us. Or is the OP's case even related to the same incident? Or was she flagged already from past issues, like at least two other people who also got locked? Or is it all an misunderstanding and MA is simply slow in working things out?

We do not know!

And second thing is, as soon as someone does go single sided public with such an issue, with the other side not having a possibility to comment much (and MA can't for several reasons comment much in this thread) a company is well adviced to take the communication channel to that level (lawyers).

And that was the case when i made my post, this thread might actually be the reason why MA choose that path.

 

[Shew]

no, normal procedure in a complaint is to inform the person involved that there is a complaint and it is being investigated; if it is legally delicate then a lwayer drafts the mail to say this. not simply lock accounts left and right with no infomation. the irony is, had they communicated to the locked avatars we would probably not have this in the public domain.

Agreed.


@ Leona, yes I did read them, did you? Of course as time GOES ON they find out why. Just like Jolana will. Hind sight is 20/20.

They have locked without notice, and cause people to jump through hoops to find out why (if they really have no knowledge of wrongdoing). This at times, especially if significant sums of money involved can cause undue stress.

No where did I say they are all innocent. But in the cases of Locks, all are guilty until proven innocent, only determined after an internal investigation, in the mean time whether guilty or innocent, their accounts and assets are froze. THIS IS THE POINT.

IMO this is not the proper way to handle accounts in a RCE.

Some have mentioned arbitration which would be a good idea.

@ Rayne What other avenues are there? If they contacted support and were in limbo, they want some sort of gratification that something is being done, especially with 200k on the line.

We don't know all the facts true, but, they have not been proven to have done anything wrong, but are in a situation with the end result of being guilty, until they are unlocked.

@ Oleg, wouldn't you be histerical? Think back to when Squal ttd his Amp. He was histerical. And this is bigger, with the possibility of no knowlege of wrong doing.

@ Kerham, imagine tomorrow you wake up and all your finances are frozen, no credit card, no bank atm, no cash on hand, and once you contact the bank, they tell you there is an internal investigation, and possibly they may give you details like somehow counterfeit money may have passed through your account. So you are basically treated as guilty until they finish and then permitted access only after they finish. Is it right they freeze all? or should they just free the suspected items? I say the latter.

Again, we don't know all the facts TRUE, only what we are told. But I do believe had MA been in contact with Jolana proactively and working in a manner so that Jolana is assured her investment is safe, this thread would not have started.

We do not know!

exactly, but Jolana is still locked without her assets, guilty or innocent.

 

[aridash]

Erm legally speaking

neither you or i know what the actual minimum legal requirement is. i'm talking about what is good and common practice.

Look at Akoz post: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/2083812-post35.html. An example how MA communicates in such cases.

i do not consider a responce the following day after having had to submit a support case to be acceptable. they could have sent a messge instead, they have the means.

 

[aridash]

oops........

 

[Oleg]

@ Oleg, wouldn't you be histerical? Think back to when Squal ttd his Amp. He was histerical. And this is bigger, with the possibility of no knowlege of wrong doing.

I'd like to think I wouldn't be hysterical, and that I wouldn't get myself into such a situation in the first place. If I did then I certainly wouldn't post inflammatory threads about it on EF.

The Squall situation is not comparable. Squall did not accuse MA of stealing from him, and admitted from the start that TTing the amp was his own fault.

 

[salman06p0020]

What an interesting thread, I hope MA doesn't screw with you because it is a huge investment.

 

[Shew]

I'd like to think I wouldn't be hysterical, and that I wouldn't get myself into such a situation in the first place. If I did then I certainly wouldn't post inflammatory threads about it on EF.

The Squall situation is not comparable. Squall did not accuse MA of stealing from him, and admitted from the start that TTing the amp was his own fault.

I didn't see this op outright saying anything inflamatory, or claiming MA is at fault.

I do see her wondering if she should be worried or concerned (questioning the honesty and asking about contacting Swedish Police about company scamming her). She is asking for input from others, that's better than just acting on those thoughts. It's a way of checking one's thoughts and actions.

Ok a bit objectionable. But I'm sure it's because of her frenzied state of mind at that time.

If something happens us, do we not start to question details about it?

She is HIGHLY excited because she has taken a loan out to buy the bank (ND took out mortgage to buy his asteroid, so not unreasonable). And with that loan, she has obligations to make payments.

She has stated they only told her was in relation to an exploit investigation, and that was only after she contacted them,

Yes Squal did take the blame, but he was still histerical for $20k

To the Ops knowledge, she didn't do anything wrong, and $200k is locked up and will remain so until they complete their investigation. I don't think her IRL bank, that she makes payments to, will take that as an excuse not to make payments. That certainly would make most people nuts.

Jolana is in a difficult spot, and I would think any prospective investors looking at banks or LAs are glad to see this thread.

MA may not appreciate it, but it can bring some good by fostering some changes to safeguard investments, and thereby bringing more money and players in. Change only happens when deficiencies are acknowledged and dealt with.

Good discussion

 

[Konve]

MindArk does not lock accounts for no reason. An internal investigation is currently being processed and the involved parties have been informed of this. When the investigation is closed, the involved parties will be notified.

Well excuse me, but allow me to quote the Entropia Universe Terms of Use to you, Mr Support.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT , TO THE EXTENT ALLOWABLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW, MINDARK SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR THE LOSS OF ANY DATA OR ELECTRONIC FILES, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, ACCOUNT, AVATAR, SKILLS AND/OR VIRTUAL ITEMS AND/OR CURRENCIES, FOR ANY REASON WHATSOEVER

MindArk reserves the right to interrupt the services available via Entropia Universe and/or the operation of the Entropia Universe System with or without prior notice for any reason. You agree that MindArk will not be liable for any loss or damage caused by interruption of the Entropia Universe, delay or failure to perform.

Now the funny thing is. What happens when Mindark says the reason for locking you out is because they feel like it?

I deem any reply for you, Support, as negligable until the time Mindark has rewritten the Terms of Use. The only thing they changed last time there was a small uproar about it was the "no reason at all" clause - which gave you the opportunity to make your post.

 

[billairboy]

If some Swedish authority is involved in the investigations they can have banned MA from telling those involved in the investigation. But probably just MA doing an internal investigation, if you don't have done anything wrong, don't worry.

 

[LeWolf86]

Goddamnit ppl stop quoting the EULA... its not above the law.... christ I could write a contract with ridicolous stuff in it... does it make it 100% set in stone? No... there are laws... there are consumer protection laws... there are other regulatory bodies that can cancel out the EULA....

 

[Xzion]

MindArk does not lock accounts for no reason. An internal investigation is currently being processed and the involved parties have been informed of this. When the investigation is closed, the involved parties will be notified.

They will be notified...
But will they be informed about the cause of this incident and resone for the inital lock after the case is closed?
as well as what actions will be taken now that the case is closed?
Notification in my experiance is no more then "You are (Add word of choise here)" *end*...

 

[Outman]

If you have a good amount of money involved just sue MA. I would think a good laywer could get MA on a few points, I mean unbanning an account and banning others for it is pretty shady, then you can claim due to this you lost faith in other online businesses, slander, harassment, the list goes on and on. It isn't going to be easy, but as I said a good laywer can make these charges stick.