Am I scamer or not ?

[remontoire]

Not a scammer because scam as a word has a specific meaning. However, you very strongly give the impression of being a ingame "used car salesman" and at the moment, good faith and fair do not appear to be ways to describe this deal.

Proteron skins may well be very cheaply on auction ... but really, right now the value of the skins is TT for anybody who does not have the funds to buy the other components (some of which don't appear likely to be available cheaply anytime soon). It also doesn't mean buying the skin when it first dropped for high price was a bad move.

 

[Xzion]

Reading your thread Mari seems like the one trying to scam you.

You are competently free of guilt for all i care, you made a deal and a deal is a deal.
If the seller of the item isn't happy with the price after the trade has been done, thats hes/her problem. Because, the responsibility of keeping track of the worth of the item you are selling is one of the most important things there is when it comes to trading, as the counterpart ; The buyer, wants the deal to be as favorable for him/her as possible.


So no, there is only one person trying to scam the other, and that person is not you ,-)

 

[Mihc Kurac Guky]

Business is business, You win - they loose. You loose - they win. They change their mind, you change yours. Without binding contracts things like this will happen again and again. All these things are the risk you were willing to take when you began collecting the parts.

 

[True Juan]

LOL, why would you EVER THINK you are a scammer? HE had to press ACCEPT TWICE, to finalize the deal

What the f*&k people?

So I go sell some item for 5K and 3 days later it jumps to 15K... then I ask for 10K more? LOOOOOL, in which UNIVERSE?

 

[Sloe]

Not a scam, just a nervous seller who didn't bother to do market research or even take a short look on EF. I'm amazed by how terrible some people's trading habits are, like nervous little kids. Fact is no one has a right to blackmail a person when they are unhappy, especially if it's their own fault. Imo she deserves nothing more than the 5k and i think she should be ashamed of herself for all this.

 

[aridash]

for the sake of on topic, not a scam.

 

[Naifas Anaconda]

LOL, why would you EVER THINK you are a scammer? HE had to press ACCEPT TWICE, to finalize the deal

What the f*&k people?

So I go sell some item for 5K and 3 days later it jumps to 15K... then I ask for 10K more? LOOOOOL, in which UNIVERSE?

This ......

 

[Thor Artic]

LOL, why would you EVER THINK you are a scammer? HE had to press ACCEPT TWICE, to finalize the deal

What the f*&k people?

So I go sell some item for 5K and 3 days later it jumps to 15K... then I ask for 10K more? LOOOOOL, in which UNIVERSE?

How about this:
You loot a nice item, You know someone is buying, the buyers claims to be an honorable and fair person who tells you that his offer is the best you can get, you trust him, a few mins later you talk to him cause you now have the same information he had,that the item is worth up 5 times what he gave you, he tells you he has to bla bla wait several days, oh too bad MU droped during this time u had to wait.

Yeah 3 days later i would laugh my ass out, few mins later its just sad!

 

[Rayne Jade]

Enough of the language stuff... there is an established topic in this thread.

EF Rules dictate that English is to be used here. Those that do not have English as their first language do their best I'm sure.

 

[Sloe]

How about this thor? When i sold my tooth i didn't even have a market history to go by, ef or otherwise as no tooth sales had even occurred to my knowledge.

 

[Marijuana]

I Vote no
You are not a Scammer Shoti and i have never sayd that 0_o I am just realy disepointed in you atm and about how u handled the whole situation

I hope IF annyone answering in this Thread Should atleast read all the story and what happend ....

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/discoveries/189258-proteron-tooth.html

It realy disepoints me that it got such big of a deal
I hope i can soon close this subject and live a happy entropia life again as we all should !!

See u all ingame and have fun in the best online universe ! *.*


Mari *.*

 

[Thor Artic]

How about this thor? When i sold my tooth i didn't even have a market history to go by, ef or otherwise as no tooth sales had even occurred to my knowledge.

So you sold your tooth, the first one looted for 5K?

 

[Xzion]

I Vote no
You are not a Scammer Shoti and i have never sayd that 0_o I am just realy disepointed in you atm and about how u handled the whole situation

Them, tell us your side of the story here.
Linking a thread with your achivement is hardly going to help us understand your point of view, that is one huge thread as well... ^^
Please share!

 

[LeWolf86]

Well you might not be a scammer, however i do think you gave her a totally rubish price for her tooth. And it sounds on you as there been dropping a shitload of tooths, but to my knowledge they havent. As of not i know of a total of 6 tooths (might be 7) And most likely you will need a few of them to complete the dna set.

And yes maybe the complete dna will cost 3-4milion peds. I think it would end up closer to 1million peds though, which isnt really a big price for a mob that popular and costly to kill. The money would most likely be made back in a year if the owner run well planned events etc. I just checked the tracker and last 30 days they have produced ~260k in globals 4-4,5% of this is a nice little sum each month, however the owner wont just get money from the globals, he get's a cut on every loot. (atleast i think that's how it works) so the money should be made back somewhat fast.

Your math is a bit off....

Even if we triple the loot to compensate for non globals (not sure on avrg glob/kill)... you get a total of 780,000 in loot @ 4-5% = 31,200 - 39,000PED per month which is 374,400 to 468,000 per year.... Which means that if it cost 1mil PED total... then you need at least 2 years & 1.5 months... and 100% market share of the prot DNA with same amount of hunters hunting them.... So lets say 3-4 year return? If that?

 

[LeWolf86]

Well since your not collecting the DNA anymore sell the tooth Back to Mari for 5k and wish her goodluck,problem solved.

Sounds pretty dreamy....

Put this situation to life... Its just not realistic... Should I go tell traders @ twins to give me stuff they bought from me back because price has gone up? Or was more then originally thought?

Shoti has done nothing wrong IMO, gonna read the other thread to get other side... but a deal was made... both parties accepted... Sometimes you buy something hoping price will go up... and it drops.. and you get fucked... sometimes you sell something thinking price is fair or going down and it goes up... and you dont get fucked because you got what you sold it for @ the time...

 

[LeWolf86]

I would not label you a scammer however...

Mari made a very bad mistake, and not not perform basic market research. However, a sale is a sale.

But, I now know that I can never feel comfortable in any future transactions I might have with you, knowing you will not offer anything close to "current market value". (based on recent purchases for same/similar items)

This means that if I had anything you might be interested in, I'll be much more likely to take my business elsewhere.

There are some players who are tough negotiators, looking for best price, however, I know that in the end we will both be happy with the results, even if I took their first, & lowest offer.

Well... thats sellers fault right? A lot of traders and people IRL will buy something knowing or believing that price will go up... if the seller sells @ a certain price and later realizes if they waited they could get more... should the buyer be blamed? At the time the deal was made... both parties agreed...

not voting yet, but offering 5k while verry well knowing at that point 1 sold for 30k. that realy feels like u pulled a quick one.

now they are worth aprox 15, if u add 10 to her deal it would have been solved evethough se could have gotten 30 at that point of time.

Well... say a ore trader knows that price of X item is going for 5% over MU... and pays -5% under MU as his standard... and knowing full well he can claim 10% profit... is it fair?

What about when I buy materials from traders... and they have prices listed on websites and I can see they want me to pay say... -5% when I can see full well on their site they pay -20%.. is that ok? Of course it is... because I need the resources... they want cash... Im sure in this situation the seller wanted money... maybe thought price was crashing wanted to sell it before more turned up...



Now to go to a morale stand point... if Shoti did know @ the time that he could buy for 5k and turn around and sell for 30k very easily or quickly... then yes I think its a bit of bad rub... If he just thought it was worth maybe a bit more then thats ok to... because the reason people buy stuff is because it has value to them either through enjoyment either by consumption, possession or money...

I dont know... its a bit gray... like I said before... you've got Sarah selling a shop for an attempted 30k to start with... she bought it off auction for 10k... you've got a 20k difference in price... shes dropped it to 20k... but shes got an offer of 5k and although the profit margin is different there... the seller of the apt thought it was a good deal to sell at 10k... and the buyer having a good idea knew she could resell for more for profit.

If shoti didn't strong arm her in bargaining... (if he knew about the 30k offer)... then I think its ok... if shoti was maybe dragging her down really low... then I dont know.

 

[JohnCapital]

Well... thats sellers fault right? A lot of traders and people IRL will buy something knowing or believing that price will go up... if the seller sells @ a certain price and later realizes if they waited they could get more... should the buyer be blamed? At the time the deal was made... both parties agreed....

Offer slightly below current avg MU, fine. 50% of all auction purchases are below average.

However, If I offered someone 150% for their medical compress, whether they took it or not, that offer is ridiculous and I'm clearly trying to rip them off.

Same as the auction folks who stick 25 ME up for 20,000% hoping some drunk will mis-sort the BO price and just buy the top one, thinking they're getting the lowest MU.

 

[LeWolf86]

just so tiring to see posts like this.

ppl think before act dont nag about bad rep if you deserved it, and seller yeah should have investigated more.

Theres a certain saying i know of here ppl should try and go by:

Dont do to others what u dont want done to u.

Only problem is this.... if I knew X item was going to drop in value by a lot the next day... and I wanted to get rid of it quick and get money fast... and this deal happened... would anyone take buyers side if he asked for more money back??? Of course not...

If we all lived in a nice world tons of stuff would be better... but this is RL and yes its a game... but with real money.... so like the real world.... usually in life there are buyers and sellers... If at the end of a deal both are happy... you cant go back on your deal if something changes which makes your PREVIOUS AGREEMENT seem less fair... because at the time it was done and both were happy.



Also if Shoti is feeling really guilty.. then maybe a % of what the tooth will sell for could be given back... nothing major maybe 10-20%... which is its 2500ped extra is something at least... But this is only if at the time the 30k was known and sold... if not... then well seller beware?

But its up to the Shoti... its a tough call... If at the end of the day you feel really guilty about this... then toss something out... Selling back for 5k... is an option... but then again I think that is unfair also as you found a seller and made a deal.... either way someone is screwed atm and someone is loving it... so you can either compensate them a wee bit to make the guilt go away... or accept it as a fair deal... Only if you knew about the real value of the tooth and whether you manage to sell it or rake the profit from it before you sell your first tooths....

 

[Miles]

Not a scam, but...

How about this:
You loot a nice item, You know someone is buying, the buyers claims to be an honorable and fair person who tells you that his offer is the best you can get, you trust him, a few mins later you talk to him cause you now have the same information he had,that the item is worth up 5 times what he gave you, he tells you he has to bla bla wait several days, oh too bad MU droped during this time u had to wait.

Yeah 3 days later i would laugh my ass out, few mins later its just sad!

This is exactly the point. Mari has never called him a scammer. Shoti started this provocative thread that frames the issue on his terms and implies that Mari accused him of scamming, setting her up as a bad person.

I am (and I freely admit it) biased, and so I've tried to stay out of this, but so many have commented here with no information at all.

The all trades are final line, while true, is not the point here. The point is that Mari trusted Shoti that it was a fair deal. Did she act with undue haste? Yes. Was she overly naive and trusting? Yes. These are the qualities that led her into this mess, but they are also the qualities that make her such a good person.

This was not a scam, it was an abuse of trust. Mari, who has played a long time, trusted Shoti, another long time and (she believed) reputable player. From a technical standpoint, all trades are final and what is done is done - but from the standpoint of reputation, Shoti traded some of his away for what was (at least at the time) a very good deal for him.

Personally, I'd much rather my friend be the naive and trusting one.



Miles

 

[LeWolf86]

Offer slightly below current avg MU, fine. 50% of all auction purchases are below average.

However, If I offered someone 150% for their medical compress, whether they took it or not, that offer is ridiculous and I'm clearly trying to rip them off.

Same as the auction folks who stick 25 ME up for 20,000% hoping some drunk will mis-sort the BO price and just buy the top one, thinking they're getting the lowest MU.

Very true... like I said... if Shotti knew FULL WELL... that he could turn around and make 25k off reselling... then yes to me its a bit immoral... but then again... obviously seller thought price was going to go down probably... maybe wanted to get rid of it quickly before that happened? We wouldn't blame her if buyer got fucked over right?

Anyways Im reading other side of the story now... to me its a bit gray area... from an outside standpoint its fair... but without knowing what each knew.. then I dont know... Obviously Shot, got screwed over earlier on when he paid 40k for a tooth... because he bought to soon... is that fair? Its just how it goes IMO... it sucks for the seller yes... but Ive had situations like that also... Of course not such high amounts...

 

[mike jones]

This is exactly the point. Mari has never called him a scammer. Shoti started this provocative thread that frames the issue on his terms and implies that Mari accused him of scamming, setting her up as a bad person.

I am (and I freely admit it) biased, and so I've tried to stay out of this, but so many have commented here with no information at all.

The all trades are final line, while true, is not the point here. The point is that Mari trusted Shoti that it was a fair deal. Did she act with undue haste? Yes. Was she overly naive and trusting? Yes. These are the qualities that led her into this mess, but they are also the qualities that make her such a good person.

This was not a scam, it was an abuse of trust. Mari, who has played a long time, trusted Shoti, another long time and (she believed) reputable player. From a technical standpoint, all trades are final and what is done is done - but from the standpoint of reputation, Shoti traded some of his away for what was (at least at the time) a very good deal for him.

Personally, I'd much rather my friend be the naive and trusting one.



Miles

+1 id rep you but i gotta spread

 

[Igorl]

I really dont get this hype about this Proteron DNA. Cmon - its Hogglo #2 , nothing more nothing less... and hogglo tooth (which was main part for hogglo) sold for 100k PED.

Why oh why should prot DNA cost 1M? Who in their right mind would pay so much anyways?

I.

 

[mike jones]

Why oh why should prot DNA cost 1M? Who in their right mind would pay so much anyways?

I.

you say all this but wasnt you the one who was contemplating depoing because you came into some extra cash and buying a LA

 

[Inifus]

Scammer - no...
Shady businessman - yes.

Offering someone far lower than the current market value based on speculations as to future market conditions is shady. You speculated that the price would drop - what is there were only a few teeth to be had and no more are going to drop for a while, that would make the price rise. You can't go to your local fueling station, walk in, and pay a lower price for fuel because the trend shows that the price is on the decline. Future market speculation is for stocks - for goods and services, current fair market value is more appropriate.

Still, the blame goes to both parties - Shoti for offering far less than it was worth, and Mari for not doing her research ahead of time. Both parties are at fault to some degree or another.

 

[Igorl]

Your math is a bit off....

Even if we triple the look to compensate for non globals (not sure on avrg glob/kill)... you get a total of 780,000 in loot @ 4-5% = 31,200 - 39,000PED per month which is 374,400 to 468,000 per year.... Which means that if it cost 1mil PED total... then you need at least 2 years & 1.5 months... and 100% market share of the prot DNA with same amount of hunters hunting them.... So lets say 3-4 year return? If that?

Guys... take a loot at it on the real side.

As thing are ATM (ET info) there is ~8k unique globals there. Provided that some of those are actually team globals - it comes down to say 6k active avatars ingame (by active I mean the ones who have the $$ to actually fuel the economy).

There are 3 big moneymakers in this game - CND, CP and TI + RT competing to be one. Each of those is said to be making 15k$+ / month (unconfirmed and unreliable info). Meaning there is 45k$ in taxed already. Plus there are around 100 more landowners who expect 500$ / mo each in average = 50k$. Plus there are 70 hangar owners who as well expect 500$ / mo each in average = 35k$.

It sum up to 130k$ / mo.

Now get back to initial 6k players - 10% of those are big spenders (you see their names in global window and HOF list everyday and allways - those are the ones you count on for big money. Trust me - the ones spending 15$ / mo to get a global or two shooting argo arent your target audience, its too few of them.

You (people, noone specific) expect 600 ppl (moreless) to pay 130k$ / mo to players (landowners and such) and approx that kind of $$ on top to MA / FPC / NDstudios.
It bring us to a number of: 433$ / mo from EACH PLAYER, taken BEFORE you give them any return.

Do you really want to keep your calculations on such postulate
So I ask you - who is crazy here? Me or the ones clinging on above calculations

I.

 

[Igorl]

you say all this but wasnt you the one who was contemplating depoing because you came into some extra cash and buying a LA

Yes

And I even did a case study - I offered 6k$ for one and got laughed at. I presented some brief statements from my study here and everyone got like - naaah - its worth like 3x more.

Then I withdrew my offers and stopped looking for a LA
Easy and simple. I consider myself as voice of reason - to click in atleast some ppls mind and stop them from losing significant amounts of $$ in here (some already did -UL weapon buyers see their "investments going down daily and it makes me so sad)

Anyways - to stick to the topic and give Shoti a Dude, be careful not to lose a bunch on this DNA Deathifier got burnt with letomie - dont let proteron be your flamer.

I.

 

[LeWolf86]

Its a tough call.... if and what people are saying he knew the price was valued around 30k.... then shooting a price at 5k... pretty low... and IMO I guess pretty bad.... But... is it not Maris fault then for getting into that position?

If he paid 10k? Would it be fair? 15k? 20k? 25k? Where do we draw the line and accept the rest as fair profit? 30k/5k = 600% RoInvestment

Its a tough battle... Shoti is in the business of acquiring and reselling these parts.... so of course he wants big profit... wouldn't be worth it to buy "fair" and sell for small markup... and of course if his statements are correct he acquired some parts @ a cost pretty high over market value... where he needs to make money to cover that loss....

I get into this dilemma all the time when I trade... mind you its not such big mUs... but... am I criminal to resell items, buying from same people all the time that come for me to sell? Even though with a bit of information and a bit of time they could make more selling to alternative choices then me?

Such is the business of reselling....

Many business make huge money... many do it without thinking about anything other then running a business at the best it can be with making the most cash. You get furniture stores that skip out on local goods because they cost more.... so they import from China, save money... lower price a bit... but then have 100% markup or more.... The chinese labourers and manufacturers are getting screwed... but the furniture store acts as a middle man between getting a cheap good.. and selling to a customer who will pay max dollar... the difference of price paid and costs is the business profit....

I know thats a bad analogy.... but.... Ill refer back to before .... if Shoti feels really guilty he should toss Mari something.... but you cant make everyone happy.... and IMO you cant go back on the deal because a deals a deal.. so pay a bit if it eases your heart... if not dont worry and live and let learn.

 

[Az Bloodz]

SYou can't go to your local fueling station, walk in, and pay a lower price for fuel because the trend shows that the price is on the decline.

As far as I know you can try to offer them a lower price. IF they accept they can't come the next day telling you they want more because price went up not down.

 

[shoti]

Scammer - no...
Shady businessman - yes.

Offering someone far lower than the current market value based on speculations as to future market conditions is shady. You speculated that the price would drop - what is there were only a few teeth to be had and no more are going to drop for a while, that would make the price rise. You can't go to your local fueling station, walk in, and pay a lower price for fuel because the trend shows that the price is on the decline. Future market speculation is for stocks - for goods and services, current fair market value is more appropriate.

Still, the blame goes to both parties - Shoti for offering far less than it was worth, and Mari for not doing her research ahead of time. Both parties are at fault to some degree or another.

Looks like u are sure how much tooth is worth? I always think that something is worth as much, as they are ppl ready to pay for that. Already lot of tooths at auction wchich droped in same wave as mari one and noone is bidding. Some action with bids under 10 K eneded without bids at all ! So ppl stating here that i ahall pay additional 20-100K (becouse star was buying all parts for 100K) are just not enough iformed in the matter.

 

[shoti]

LOL, why would you EVER THINK you are a scammer? HE had to press ACCEPT TWICE, to finalize the deal

What the f*&k people?

So I go sell some item for 5K and 3 days later it jumps to 15K... then I ask for 10K more? LOOOOOL, in which UNIVERSE?

Whole that situation was very strange for me. Never had something like that in all those years and tousands of trades. Maryjuana chosed to drag this out onto public in her tooth thread so my only option was showing both sides of that situation. Public discussion after some meter wchich someone is involved is always form of pressure and after some not nie PM's i felt kinda blackmailed to do what Marijuana demands.

I have nothing to hide. Thats why i wanted to know comunity outlook on this case.