Am I scamer or not ?
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dutch chap
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-Mari looted a tooth and had no idea about the market value.
-You tell her you're an honest and respectable person and that the tooth is
worth nothing more than 5k peds, while you had bought teeth previous to
hers for way more.
-She trusts you and makes the deal.
-Shortly after that she discovers other teeth has sold for alot more.
-She feels cheated and makes it public.
-You fear for your rep and now ask the community if you are a scammer.
You've made a sale based upon giving false information, and you know it, or you wouldn't seek the public's approval.
-You tell her you're an honest and respectable person and that the tooth is
worth nothing more than 5k peds, while you had bought teeth previous to
hers for way more.
-She trusts you and makes the deal.
-Shortly after that she discovers other teeth has sold for alot more.
-She feels cheated and makes it public.
-You fear for your rep and now ask the community if you are a scammer.
You've made a sale based upon giving false information, and you know it, or you wouldn't seek the public's approval.
Aydonis
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I didnt sell you a tooth... probably couldn't even manage to give proteron a bruise before getting eaten. But if you're giving out compensation could I have some too? 
Seriously though I've seen this in other games. Like you said, both parties involved act on information available at the time. Information and prices vary with time. All Sales Are Final. Otherwise people would be crying for more money on everything they sell as soon as mu goes up a percent.
Even if it were the case that you knew that the price would change considerably after the sale. That would be dishonest of course, but is also considered good business sense and shrewd investment.
Unless perhaps you somehow had a direct impact on that price fluctuation either through your own resources, or by conspiring with other investors. In which case it is called "price fixing". It is considered a criminal offence in the real world at a federal level. However, due to the fact it is a virtual world, the value may be under 5,000 dollars (if the tooth your talking about is worth 5000 ped and not 5000 dollars) that it spans several countries, and linking people to an organized cartel in a virtual world would be tedious work- and maybe even impossible if chat records are cleared from MA servers over time, no agent in their right mind would go anywhere near such a case.
I worked in a merchant clan for three years in a game that requires real money for it's items, and nobody including myself were charged with any offence, though we fixed the prices on more items than i can recall, and made a mint in the process... 46M (though 1 dollar equals 1000 gold in game roughly, price is variable and controlled by cash auctioning, and there is no withdraw option unfortuantely
). If you're considered a scammer by getting lucky on a price, then I'm a world-class scammer-extraordinaire. If it was something more than luck, then you and me can just be plain old scammers. Though I do prefer the title "Merch" XD
-edit-
Merchant clans were greatly disliked in that game though, and in most games as far as I've seen. So, if you're looking for friends and you are also merchanting, you will have to give up one or the other eventually... though I made plenty of great merch and non-merch friends and just ignored those that cursed me and my announcements for people to join our rapidly growing clan spanning several mmorpgs.
Seriously though I've seen this in other games. Like you said, both parties involved act on information available at the time. Information and prices vary with time. All Sales Are Final. Otherwise people would be crying for more money on everything they sell as soon as mu goes up a percent.
Even if it were the case that you knew that the price would change considerably after the sale. That would be dishonest of course, but is also considered good business sense and shrewd investment.
Unless perhaps you somehow had a direct impact on that price fluctuation either through your own resources, or by conspiring with other investors. In which case it is called "price fixing". It is considered a criminal offence in the real world at a federal level. However, due to the fact it is a virtual world, the value may be under 5,000 dollars (if the tooth your talking about is worth 5000 ped and not 5000 dollars) that it spans several countries, and linking people to an organized cartel in a virtual world would be tedious work- and maybe even impossible if chat records are cleared from MA servers over time, no agent in their right mind would go anywhere near such a case.
I worked in a merchant clan for three years in a game that requires real money for it's items, and nobody including myself were charged with any offence, though we fixed the prices on more items than i can recall, and made a mint in the process... 46M (though 1 dollar equals 1000 gold in game roughly, price is variable and controlled by cash auctioning, and there is no withdraw option unfortuantely
). If you're considered a scammer by getting lucky on a price, then I'm a world-class scammer-extraordinaire. If it was something more than luck, then you and me can just be plain old scammers. Though I do prefer the title "Merch" XD-edit-
Merchant clans were greatly disliked in that game though, and in most games as far as I've seen. So, if you're looking for friends and you are also merchanting, you will have to give up one or the other eventually... though I made plenty of great merch and non-merch friends and just ignored those that cursed me and my announcements for people to join our rapidly growing clan spanning several mmorpgs.
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John BD
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:O u where able to see the future when u made the dodgy deal.
hehe just keep twisting and bending m8 i know of squigly critters doing that.
Thor Artic
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You know that what you did wasnt correct from a honorable point of view. And now you try to make Mari look bad just to cover your bad reputation!!
I must say that now i know what kind of person you are and you just been added to my new list of: Dont even look at that person.
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JohnCapital
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Gentle reminder.
Feel free to give your opinions, jokes, whatever. However, I highly suggest that everyone refrain from:
If you can't handle discussing matters in a rational fashion, please just sit on the side line and rep those you agree with.
"It's not what you say, it's how you say it."
Thank you
Feel free to give your opinions, jokes, whatever. However, I highly suggest that everyone refrain from:
- 2.2 - Insults/Flaming
- 2.4 - Threats/Intimidation
- And all the other forum rules
If you can't handle discussing matters in a rational fashion, please just sit on the side line and rep those you agree with.
"It's not what you say, it's how you say it."
Thank you
Tycoon
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What did he do that's so wrong by you exactly? it was a fair trade as far as I can tell!
LeWolf86
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What we need to do is decide what is fair.... and in life what we do is the same situation....
Like my situation Mari is the chinese.... shoti is a big box store... and he sells to a customer... you buy cheap sell high... its how it happens in the real world... whys it so wrong here?
Morale wise its bad... but he made an investment and looks like this one will pay off... it doesn't always happen like this...
Like my situation Mari is the chinese.... shoti is a big box store... and he sells to a customer... you buy cheap sell high... its how it happens in the real world... whys it so wrong here?
Morale wise its bad... but he made an investment and looks like this one will pay off... it doesn't always happen like this...
Almost corect...I told Marijuana about my all previous buys of tooths.To avoid such misunderstanding in future. She can't deny that. She was informed before trade that prices for another tooths were like 40K 20K 12K etc....and now her for 5K. I didn't force her to anything.
And I am asking comunity what is right because i am not sure after all trades i done on proteron parts last month
. thx all for your input, unfortunately i cant + rep all at once
LeWolf86
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Ill take some +rep...
If you told her past prices... well you let her know that there is potential for more... that it had been bought at higher prices... at least by you... so after receiving that info its her call really... Of course it could be seen in two different ways.... I paid 40k... then much less... then less and then less... so yours is probably worth even less....
Now with that type of extra info she had an idea that this item was a falling price thing and that 5k seemed alright... but if you knew the price was 30k... then well... you could say it was a wee bit swindled... Wish you could put chat logs up because then it would be 100% known how the agreement was decided...
If you told her past prices... well you let her know that there is potential for more... that it had been bought at higher prices... at least by you... so after receiving that info its her call really... Of course it could be seen in two different ways.... I paid 40k... then much less... then less and then less... so yours is probably worth even less....
Now with that type of extra info she had an idea that this item was a falling price thing and that 5k seemed alright... but if you knew the price was 30k... then well... you could say it was a wee bit swindled
... Wish you could put chat logs up because then it would be 100% known how the agreement was decided...Shoti wasn't scammed, he just wrangled a good deal.
Other party is having a cry that they're not as shrewd. Had the shoe been on the other foot, I doubt Shoti would be asking for a refund
You fucked up and Shoti got a good deal (at the time*).
*frankly I think he should give the tooth back and get his PED back... Shoti got ripped off IMO.
Other party is having a cry that they're not as shrewd. Had the shoe been on the other foot, I doubt Shoti would be asking for a refund
You fucked up and Shoti got a good deal (at the time*).
*frankly I think he should give the tooth back and get his PED back... Shoti got ripped off IMO.
Thaddeuss
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i really know nothing about this situation and find ur desription hard to navigate through and read. but i did. and i will have to say regardless of all the he said she said bs the 2 partys had back and forth the deals were made ped given item exchanged..
Both partys are taking a risk. the seller has the risk that the price goes way up and he loses by selling when it was so low. and vice a versa the buyer risks paying to high and having the price dropped out on them...
neither no the outcome its just like a big giant invisible slot machine same as the mob hunting mining and crafting..
u take the chance when u make the deal
u agree on a price ur comfortable overpaying on, or losing on..
its rediculous that anyone beleives their entitled to compensation when it doesnt work out in their favor.. such is bussiness guys get over it...
Both partys are taking a risk. the seller has the risk that the price goes way up and he loses by selling when it was so low. and vice a versa the buyer risks paying to high and having the price dropped out on them...
neither no the outcome its just like a big giant invisible slot machine same as the mob hunting mining and crafting..
u take the chance when u make the deal
u agree on a price ur comfortable overpaying on, or losing on..
its rediculous that anyone beleives their entitled to compensation when it doesnt work out in their favor.. such is bussiness guys get over it...
Az Bloodz
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Of course she knew about the decrease in value since there is no other sane reason for a 'fast sale'. She was expecting a decline in value (probably below 5k PED) and it did not work out for her. Entire story.
Ill take some +rep...
If you told her past prices... well you let her know that there is potential for more... that it had been bought at higher prices... at least by you... so after receiving that info its her call really... Of course it could be seen in two different ways.... I paid 40k... then much less... then less and then less... so yours is probably worth even less....
Now with that type of extra info she had an idea that this item was a falling price thing and that 5k seemed alright... but if you knew the price was 30k... then well... you could say it was a wee bit swindled
Yeah i wish too...But John Capital is watching us
dutch chap
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Thor Artic
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Well he also said his offer was the best she could get at that time, and to trust him about that, wich wasnt since other buyer was paying 20-25K for the tooth at that same time, wich he also knew.
This will be my last post on this subject.
To Mr Shoti, if you think you did nothing wrong, then i feel sad for those who will have to do any trades with you in the future. But hey...what goes around comes around
If there was somenoe paying more at that time why Mari didn't sell to him ?
I am almost certain that only I was ready to pay for that tooth at that time, becourse toth on auction didn't get any bids, deathifier resigned, star was offline already few weeks, and Qetesh don't wanted more tooths, aframo admited he was fake buyer. And there are no other ppl interested in that DNA sample.
cheers...
I am almost certain that only I was ready to pay for that tooth at that time, becourse toth on auction didn't get any bids, deathifier resigned, star was offline already few weeks, and Qetesh don't wanted more tooths, aframo admited he was fake buyer. And there are no other ppl interested in that DNA sample.
cheers...
Thor Artic
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Mari contacted you first, thats why.
But if aframo was a fake buyer it changes things a bit. I you also say that you knew there where no other buyers for the tooth at that time changes the thing alot. If that is true, then i cant see that you have done anything wrong.
You are now officialy removed from my list of bad people
LeWolf86
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Actually Aframo being a fake buyer changes things a lot... Im guessing hes the one who everyone thought was paying the 30k which made Shoti's deal look very good to Shoti... but him being a fake doesn't help at all and probably just smeared mud on Shoti's rep...
I suggest people apologize to Shoti... because there are people here who probably think he did something wrong, and even if Aframo was doing the deal... Mari could of checked around forum... but didn't... wanted the fast sale that Shoti offered... both agreed to the deal...
The "30k" offer was a fake... and Stars "100k" was not going to be paid lol....
I suggest people apologize to Shoti... because there are people here who probably think he did something wrong, and even if Aframo was doing the deal... Mari could of checked around forum... but didn't... wanted the fast sale that Shoti offered... both agreed to the deal...
The "30k" offer was a fake... and Stars "100k" was not going to be paid lol....
Mari contacted you first, thats why.
But if aframo was a fake buyer it changes things a bit. I you also say that you knew there where no other buyers for the tooth at that time changes the thing alot. If that is true, then i cant see that you have done anything wrong.
You are now officialy removed from my list of bad people
U can look into his buying thread. He admited that. Few days later he started a poll and ask if she shall left game course of his bad joke. Poll is greetings & messages section.
here is link:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/buying/189002-proteron-dna-2.html
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as for star thread 100K was posted there , but star was mostly off-line that time. Each time he logged in i tryed contact to confirm that. But he ignores all comunication from me. In each deal for prot parts i asked if seler tryed contact him first. many ppl told me they are ignored ingame or on EF by star.
Abyway i know that star bought som parts lately under 100K - so that mean his 100K was fake few days ago also.
Thor Artic
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I havent voted on this poll because i just didnt felt the need to do it. I already have my own opinion about you. Today after i learn about how you handle the trade with the ribs makes me not want to vote even more. The new reason for it because voting you as a scammer would be insulting the word scammer!
Deity A
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scammer has 2 m's in it
Now on subject; he sold for the 5k you offered. Whether this is a good price or not is a discussion about legality (assuming scamming is illegal) but one of subjective value.
What if teeth started to rain down like hell from that loot on? What if some rare DNA dropped and the DNA was made by anyone else; you don't see any fresq, letomy or that jurking oof mob DNA dropping anymore.
It is all speculation and if the buyer values the item at 5k it is his choice; if the seller sells it at that price and afterwards find out he could have gotten more; bad luck or actually bad research.
So you are not a scammer, and imho you didn't even do something ethically questionable but since MJ blew it up here on forum your reputation is screwed.
Some ppl say that they would not deal with you anymore; but actually that does say more about their trading skills than about you.
Now on subject; he sold for the 5k you offered. Whether this is a good price or not is a discussion about legality (assuming scamming is illegal) but one of subjective value.
What if teeth started to rain down like hell from that loot on? What if some rare DNA dropped and the DNA was made by anyone else; you don't see any fresq, letomy or that jurking oof mob DNA dropping anymore.
It is all speculation and if the buyer values the item at 5k it is his choice; if the seller sells it at that price and afterwards find out he could have gotten more; bad luck or actually bad research.
So you are not a scammer, and imho you didn't even do something ethically questionable but since MJ blew it up here on forum your reputation is screwed.
Some ppl say that they would not deal with you anymore; but actually that does say more about their trading skills than about you.
Trifle
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Business is business, if a deal has been made and both parties are satisfied with the current insecure situation/circumstances (like maybe droprates goes up or no more, and so on) both parties are taking a risk which could go for the better or the worse. Therefore I think asking for compensation is more than a rude thing to do. People should udnerstand a deal is a deal. If you buy shadow for 5k ped you know somethign is fishy, in this case it was not the question. There were no doubts about the deal, everything was clear, no one could know/predict which way proteron drops would go.
I admire your big effort to acquiring the proteron dna, especially due to the insane prices involved. It goes above and beyond my belief it should cost THAT much. Let's face it the proteron hype has gone, at least its not as it used to be.
I don't know if you really will quit trying to put it together, would be a shame since you are already this far. Best of luck Shoti, you are not a scammer.
