Are finisher Weapons still viable post loot 2.0?

AckerZ

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Do finisher weapons still make sense post loot 2.0?

I understand that the lower the cost to kill a mob the better the loot composition but does this still work when switching from say a 60-70%efficiency weapon to a 50% efficiency finishing weapon?
 

Alukat123

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I usually use armatrix and some 55-59% efficiency finisher and it works quite well compared to killing the mob with armatrix only, so i'd say yes.
 

anonimity

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no it doesn't. which is why you can overkill daikiba and get a shitload of globals at the king of the hill wave.
 

kingofaces

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In terms of TT, it doesn’t matter much unless there is a big spread in your efficiency in the two weapons.

It does help for loot composition though. It depends how much damage you are putting out and the mob, but a significant overkill means a higher ratio of shrapnel. That assumes you’re targeting MU though instead of oils, etc. that are near 101%.
 

AckerZ

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It does help for loot composition though. It depends how much damage you are putting out and the mob, but a significant overkill means a higher ratio of shrapnel.
So when the mob is in the last segments of its health finishing with say a Bukins 'should' increase the MU:shrapnel ratio? I assume this doesn't work everytime but is noticeable over a large volume of kills?

Also with overkill is that where the mob is on low health that could have been finished with a finisher and you continue attacking with the high DPS weapon that "overkills" the remaining health? And that is bad because the cost to kill is much higher than it needed to be?

QUOTE="kingofaces, post: 3717395, member: 47413"]
That assumes you’re targeting MU though instead of oils,
[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure I understand this bit. How do you target MU and not oils? Are they not part of what is considered 'optimal Loot'?
 

Alukat123

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Also with overkill is that where the mob is on low health that could have been finished with a finisher and you continue attacking with the high DPS weapon that "overkills" the remaining health?
example:
Mob has 5 HP left and you shoot it with a 120 damage gun, that's overkill. Shooting that mob with a 5 damage gun, then it isn't.

Granted, we can't kill them that perfectly because of the damage intervals, but you can try to reduce the overkill as much as possible.
 

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No it does not.
 

AckerZ

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[
example:
Mob has 5 HP left and you shoot it with a 120 damage gun, that's overkill. Shooting that mob with a 5 damage gun, then it isn't.

Granted, we can't kill them that perfectly because of the damage intervals, but you can try to reduce the overkill as much as possible.

thanks that makes sense
 

Orion

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example:
Mob has 5 HP left and you shoot it with a 120 damage gun, that's overkill. Shooting that mob with a 5 damage gun, then it isn't.
now in Loot 2.0 the 115 DMG overkill are fully (fully = your overall efficiency, which should be >90%) returned in shrapnel.
In consequence this alters your ratio of "Quality Loot" to Shrapnel towards Shrapnel a bit.
"Quality Loot" is defined as all lootable items, which are not Shrapnel.

If the total Markup% of all Quality Loot (including your auction fee for example) of your mob averages below 101% it might be interesting to push the Quality Loot/Shrapnel ratio more towards shrapnel, since Shrapnel guarantees you 101%.
 
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Alukat123

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If the total Markup% of all Quality Loot (including your auction fee for example) of your mob averages below 101% it might be interesting to push the Quality Loot/Shrapnel ratio more towards shrapnel, since Shrapnel guarantees you 101%.
or just change the mob ^^
 

kingofaces

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So when the mob is in the last segments of its health finishing with say a Bukins 'should' increase the MU:shrapnel ratio? I assume this doesn't work everytime but is noticeable over a large volume of kills?

Also with overkill is that where the mob is on low health that could have been finished with a finisher and you continue attacking with the high DPS weapon that "overkills" the remaining health? And that is bad because the cost to kill is much higher than it needed to be?

QUOTE="kingofaces, post: 3717395, member: 47413"]
That assumes you’re targeting MU though instead of oils,
[/QUOTE

I'm not sure I understand this bit. How do you target MU and not oils? Are they not part of what is considered 'optimal Loot'?
So when the mob is in the last segments of its health finishing with say a Bukins 'should' increase the MU:shrapnel ratio? I assume this doesn't work everytime but is noticeable over a large volume of kills?

Also with overkill is that where the mob is on low health that could have been finished with a finisher and you continue attacking with the high DPS weapon that "overkills" the remaining health? And that is bad because the cost to kill is much higher than it needed to be?

QUOTE="kingofaces, post: 3717395, member: 47413"]
That assumes you’re targeting MU though instead of oils,
I'm not sure I understand this bit. How do you target MU and not oils? Are they not part of what is considered 'optimal Loot'?
[/QUOTE]

On oils, many of them are near 101-102% MU, so I wouldn’t call that targeting MU. You get 101% when you convert shrapnel. What matters is targeting a mob that has something worth looting, and increasing the likelihood of getting that rather than shrapnel.

Overall, overkill matters much less in 2.0. I wouldn’t worry about it that much, especially if it takes more than a few hits to kill the mob, but it doesn’t hurt to keep a Laconian around to finish when you’re left with just a sliver.
 

MikeH

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Do finisher weapons still make sense post loot 2.0?
Nope. Personally i think its a waste of time switching to a finisher to kill it efficiently then while it regen and instead of one shot of main weapon u have to shoot 2-3 times with a finisher.
 

mastermesh

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no but overkill is still overkill... avoid it if possible... and misses are still misses... so use something you got some HA on unless you are just having fun to finish some fast little mission you want to go through asap for whatever reason, in which case cost doesn't matter so much...

Also, FOR TAMING a finisher is awesome idea so you don't kill the mob before the critter gets tamed due to accidental overkill.
 
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LavaSparks

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Even if a finisher won't help loot composition much, it does mean a cheaper kill on average. Which means more kills per ped spent, letting you get more loot events for the same amount of peds. In the long run it matters. But as others have stated, it depends on mob and setup. If you already shoot 30 shots on a mob to kill it, a finisher won't matter much (1-2 %). But if you like to shoot 5 shots with a big weapon on a mob, then you can benefit a lot by using afinisher, since you can cut kill cost by a lot more (20 %).

Missions: For old missions cheaper kills meant cheaper mission chains, but for codex all that matters is ped turnover, so nothing to gain there by using finisher. On Ark, Cyrene, Monria, NI, Toulan and RT it still matters.
 

mastermesh

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Even if a finisher won't help loot composition much, it does mean a cheaper kill on average. Which means more kills per ped spent, letting you get more loot events for the same amount of peds. In the long run it matters. But as others have stated, it depends on mob and setup. If you already shoot 30 shots on a mob to kill it, a finisher won't matter much (1-2 %). But if you like to shoot 5 shots with a big weapon on a mob, then you can benefit a lot by using afinisher, since you can cut kill cost by a lot more (20 %).
yep... also, depends on the mob and the weapon in question as well as your HA... if your average shot rounds to 5 hp per shot picking mobs with hp levels that are close to a 5 multiplier might be smart.
 

AckerZ

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yep... also, depends on the mob and the weapon in question as well as your HA... if your average shot rounds to 5 hp per shot picking mobs with hp levels that are close to a 5 multiplier might be smart.
Whats 'HA' in this context?
 
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