Question: Are unlimited weapons too expensive?

[jwestonmoss]

the practical loot efficiency diff between the average mid-grade L weapon and the best uber efficient UL weapons is only about 2% iirc

it matters but picking the right mobs and understanding the market swings is way more important

 

[Goldenboy24]

2% for eff diffrence, probably another 2% for dpp diffrence, and another 1% for markup paid, not to mention low dps, market flactuations, higher cost of dmg enhancers, if you can even use them, since they increase decay of a weapon that costs extra

 

[minim]

2% for eff diffrence, probably another 2% for dpp diffrence, and another 1% for markup paid, not to mention low dps, market flactuations, higher cost of dmg enhancers, if you can even use them, since they increase decay of a weapon that costs extra

50% of statistics online is made up!

 

[Goldenboy24]

50% of statistics online is made up!

you might be right, but i know on avarage L guns cost me around 1%, L guns on avrage are around 60 eff, and their dpp without using L amps will be around 3, how big of an impact does that make in comparison to a UL weapon with 90 eff, and 3.8 dpp, ignoring dps diffrence aswell

 

[ZPF]

Opinions of price do not matter. The market will always speak for itself.

this is the only answer that matters

Not sure what this nonsense means.
Are you saying markets are "always right"? That's obviously not true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpaca#Prices
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

The stock markets/bond markets/forex are the only markets that come close to "efficient markets", due to them having 100s of millions of participants.

EU is closer to the Art market. Terrible liquidity, loosely regulated and useful for money laundering.
In the Art market, "opinions" are literally the only thing that matters.

 

[RT_Tony]

Not sure what this nonsense means.
Are you saying markets are "always right"? That's obviously not true.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alpaca#Prices
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

The stock markets/bond markets are the only markets that come close to "efficient markets", due to them having 100s of millions of participants.

EU is closer to the Art market. Terrible liquidity, loosely regulated and useful for money laundering.
In the Art market, "opinions" are literally the only thing that matters.

it means what it means... the market will always speak for itself, prices will always correct themselves sooner or later

those three examples, they all "fixed" themselves...the market spoke

people can speculate all they want, at the end of the day, the market will speak for itself and prices will adjust

UL weapons are still so expansive after all this time. it would be time for people to adjust instead of complain

 

[UnaAlconbury]

EU is closer to the Art market. Terrible liquidity, loosely regulated and useful for money laundering.
In the Art market, "opinions" are literally the only thing that matters.

entropia
enTRopiA
T,R,A
A,R,T
ART!
omg

 

[ZPF]

it means what it means... the market will always speak for itself, prices will always correct themselves sooner or later

Again, this only applies to efficient markets, there is no evidence to support this for something like art that has zero intrinsic value.

 

[RT_Tony]

Again, this only applies to efficient markets, there is no evidence to support this for something like art that has zero intrinsic value.

except opinions are not the only thing that matters contrary to what you said

data and numbers matter, and with over 20 years online i believe the data and numbers are there...

 

[Sirhc]

tell me what you would expect to happen, if all the current L gear that is commonly used, like the armatrix weapons, chips that you loot, enigmas, if these weapons would have their eff increased to 90, and their dpp increased to 3.8

The demand for such items would probably go up and then there would be threads complaining about the availability of such items. Once demand increases the prices would go up on these as well. Resources would become scarce and there will probably be some eagle eyed reseller scooping things up to play that market.

I've used some L items in the past and the number one issue was having replacements on hand when the TT ran out. UL offers consistency to my game and anything limited that I use is for enhancement only. In my opinion L should have never been a direct competitor to UL and only been implemented to enhance the base set of UL items but its not my game to develop. Whether its L or UL really good loot 2.0 weapons are going to be a premium until loot 3.0 and then it starts all over again.

 

[Gopher]

The demand for such items would probably go up and then there would be threads complaining about the availability of such items. Once demand increases the prices would go up on these as well. Resources would become scarce and there will probably be some eagle eyed reseller scooping things up to play that market.

I've used some L items in the past and the number one issue was having replacements on hand when the TT ran out. UL offers consistency to my game and anything limited that I use is for enhancement only. In my opinion L should have never been a direct competitor to UL and only been implemented to enhance the base set of UL items but its not my game to develop. Whether its L or UL really good loot 2.0 weapons are going to be a premium until loot 3.0 and then it starts all over again.

Yeah thats a big problem with L weapons, especially on planets without a good market. Its very hard to find replacement L weps for reasonable prices compared to AH/recent sales on planets with a low population of players.

 

[ZPF]

except opinions are not the only thing that matters contrary to what you said

data and numbers matter, and with over 20 years online i believe the data and numbers are there...

You can line up opinions on a price graph, it does not change what they are.

But let's assume that everyone in EU has a PhD in applied mathematics and EU has one billion players like the stock market.

We still have no data from forum sales which is where most big UL gear transactions happen. We are flying blind out here.

 

[Spawn]

Without reading every comment i can say that it is super funny how some people who cycle 10 ped a month feel about weapon prices, even if i gift you those Kind of uberclass items your ped card cant handle one hour hunting, so whats the point of price Speculations? Grow some peds use that kind of items first and then talk about prices

Oh forgot to flex on the people who shittalk about weapons, how happy i am that i bought a bp 70 that actualy produces me loads of mu i can use for further Upgrades while those people still hang @ boreas doing exactly 0 progress.


I did vote that they shud be valued more, not because i own one... because i understand what they do
You dont just buy a effective item or super good dpp, you also buy a boost of time by huge dps diference compared to the other players
If 100 players play with 50 dps weapons
And your weapon got 100 dps not even using any pills , you already outperform everyone by x2 now my setup runns 200+ dps while others who complain about prices runn like 60 dps with a super garbage effi and super garbage dpp now my only competition that does a real diference is someone with a mod nano, bp 130 bc 120 kind of items but the 50 - 150 dps people i dont even mind. Now compare how many 50 - 150 dps people we got and how many who go above 200 to the 300, you figure out real quick why top items are worth a top price and that this top price is actualy rly low, and its only that low because of the fact that we are a small playerbase
250k for a weapon might Sound high if you dont got the peds but it rly is nothing if you got the peds
Now dps is only one pillar then you have Things like good dpp, good efficiency, good conversation rate, good amplifier Spot and so on. If you dont think about that stuff then dont think about prices @all, becaude you are simply not ready to use that kind of expencive stuff, rather stay with limited or garbage untill you understand what you are doing, and one day you will understand why Things are the way they are

I did spend a lot of money, yes it was worth it, it was worth it because i know what do to with the item.

I didn't get the part of your post which was superfunny. Either that or you didn't tell the Joke right.. or the third option.. the joke's on you.

 

[Alina]

you guys HAD the opportunity to get a sparking/keyworks very cheap ...just saying

 

[minim]

you guys HAD the opportunity to get a sparking/keyworks very cheap ...just saying

I call Bullshit. This gang want it for TT and won't ever be happy as long as the cost is below 101% so 65k for a keyworks isn't cheap for them

 

[PreyNaika]

Wtf there Was a keyworks for 65k ?

 

[minim]

Wtf there Was a keyworks for 65k ?

Yeah the one messi pulled was pulled when tokens was 0.65. I bought 30-40k tokens earlier that day to go for it but handed them over to a friend instead that gathered the rest at 0.65 towards a chip. A bargain really.

 

[PreyNaika]

Yeah the one messi pulled was pulled when tokens was 0.65. I bought 30-40k tokens earlier that day to go for it but handed them over to a friend instead that gathered the rest at 0.65 towards a chip. A bargain really.

Oh wow, nice one did not expect that
Thats rly a bargain

 

[minim]

Oh wow, nice one did not expect that
Thats rly a bargain

Last sparking went even lower. Can't really compain when almost endgame items like the keyworks is goes for that price ^^

 

[PreyNaika]

Last sparking went even lower. Can't really compain when almost endgame items like the keyworks is goes for that price ^^

Take care what you say otherwise we see people asking to buy a unity for 20k !

 

[Goldenboy24]

there is a misconception about L weapons beeing a good thing for EU becouse it would benefit ME, i am promoting less paywalling becouse i belive it would help the game, adding a 100 eff 1 dps gun isnt going to help me, but i belive it would help newcomers stay in the game

over and over ive seen, if you want L weapons to be affordable and competitive to the UL gear, that it means im not willing to put in the "work", as if it really is all about geting your hands on a strong UL, ive been puting in the work with L gear for years, and in the past, me and some UL user were equal, he had an advantage ofc, but it wasent as huge as it is now, i think the numbers of beeing 5% behind in returns are fair, and this means anybody using L, cannot really compete, and the "work" and "knowledge" i need to put in, is much greater, for a lesser reward

in every wow expenasion, the player gets stronger, and does not have to go trough every raid that ever existed to get to max lvl, the gear from the previous partch is "nerfed" becouse the new gear introduced is so much stronger, and everybody has acess to it, in entropia what we have decided to do, is add a codex, and tell ourselfs that new players have it easyer now becouse of the codex, but its not like a new player gets more skills from finishing low hp mobs, the reward for codex is based on money spent, and everybody has acess to finishing codex, so if you say, but more skills benefit new players more, true, but thats how its always been, what we also increased is where the max level is, and how much money you need to invest to be "geared", while at the same time lowering returns for new players, but increasing the returns of top players, talking about tt, so in recap, the joiurney is longer, you have to invest much more money, you will be lossing much more money, the players who are at the begining of the journey will be "taxed" the most, while the people at the end will be "taxed" the least, and sugjestions to give everybody same acess by introducting stronger L gear is insatntly interpreted as to the worst thing imaginable

 

[minim]

there is a misconception about L weapons beeing a good thing for EU becouse it would benefit ME, i am promoting less paywalling becouse i belive it would help the game, adding a 100 eff 1 dps gun isnt going to help me, but i belive it would help newcomers stay in the game

over and over ive seen, if you want L weapons to be affordable and competitive to the UL gear, that it means im not willing to put in the "work", as if it really is all about geting your hands on a strong UL, ive been puting in the work with L gear for years, and in the past, me and some UL user were equal, he had an advantage ofc, but it wasent as huge as it is now, i think the numbers of beeing 5% behind in returns are fair, and this means anybody using L, cannot really compete, and the "work" and "knowledge" i need to put in, is much greater, for a lesser reward

in every wow expenasion, the player gets stronger, and does not have to go trough every raid that ever existed to get to max lvl, the gear from the previous partch is "nerfed" becouse the new gear introduced is so much stronger, and everybody has acess to it, in entropia what we have decided to do, is add a codex, and tell ourselfs that new players have it easyer now becouse of the codex, but its not like a new player gets more skills from finishing low hp mobs, the reward for codex is based on money spent, and everybody has acess to finishing codex, so if you say, but more skills benefit new players more, true, but thats how its always been, what we also increased is where the max level is, and how much money you need to invest to be "geared", while at the same time lowering returns for new players, but increasing the returns of top players, talking about tt, so in recap, the joiurney is longer, you have to invest much more money, you will be lossing much more money, the players who are at the begining of the journey will be "taxed" the most, while the people at the end will be "taxed" the least, and sugjestions to give everybody same acess by introducting stronger L gear is insatntly interpreted as to the worst thing imaginable

If you can't profit with current L gear then you prolly won't be able to do it with UL either. There are plenty L gear out there that add less than 0.5% to the total markup input. Stop looking for issues and start looking for solutions.

 

[Pi-]

.

 

[Goldenboy24]

If you can't profit with current L gear then you prolly won't be able to do it with UL either. There are plenty L gear out there that add less than 0.5% to the total markup input. Stop looking for issues and start looking for solutions.

either you dont know what youre talking about, or you are trying to decive, if it was harder to profit with UL, why would anybody ever want to buy UL, gear that offers around 70 dps will cost you around 1% on avarage, if youre lucky you can get it for 0.5%, but alot of it costs 2% extra, now thats just paying for markup, this is money gone forever, in exhange for losing 1%, you get 60 eff, you think its easyer to profit with 60 eff, or 90 eff ? and on top of that, you also have no dpp, all the extra critchance and crit dmg you can get will not be enaugh, not even closely enaugh, to have the dpp with which a 2.0 gun starts by default, and the final part is, you will also consatntly be dependant on the auction, you start using one weapon, you increase its markup same day if you are ONE dedicated hunter, the fallback are armatrix ofc, but those are expensive, no shot anybody can seriously say that if you use L you will be better off then you would be with UL, no shot

 

[minim]

I forgot, you wanted the whole shabang, for free!

 

[Goldenboy24]

look, you just said that if you cant profit with L, then you probably cant with UL, this implies its harder to do it with UL, thats a nonsense statement, and what yorue calling "free", is everybody using L weapons, from the lowest noob to the bigest pro, UL gear has 2 issues atm, its behind a huge paywaall, and it gives a huge advantage, thats why the paywall is there, if it gave no advantage, nobody would buy it, you know how you can reduce the advantage it gives ? by making L gear better, making L gear better doesent mean levels dont exist anymore, it just means more knowledge will be needed for profit, you wont just be able to sit with a 200 dps gun in one spot forever, becouse youl drive up the markup of the gun, there will be more room for "knowledge" giving you an advantage, but everybody will have somewhat the same shot at oportunity, it wont be locked away behind a paywall, now that you know my position i really want this:

there is a posibility i am wrong, but you have to show me where my logic is flawed, if you cant point out where i am wrong, then explain to me why having a paywall for huge advantage is a good thing
and be honest, say directly what you belive, if you think the noobs should be "taxed" more, or if you want them to require a deposit, or if you want them to play 5 years for them to get somewhere, just say it, dont hide your beliefs and assert you are correct, say honestly how you want the game to be

 

[minim]

look, you just said that if you cant profit with L, then you probably cant with UL, this implies its harder to do it with UL, thats a nonsense statement, and what yorue calling "free", is everybody using L weapons, from the lowest noob to the bigest pro, UL gear has 2 issues atm, its behind a huge paywaall, and it gives a huge advantage, thats why the paywall is there, if it gave no advantage, nobody would buy it, you know how you can reduce the advantage it gives ? by making L gear better, making L gear better doesent mean levels dont exist anymore, it just means more knowledge will be needed for profit, you wont just be able to sit with a 200 dps gun in one spot forever, becouse youl drive up the markup of the gun, there will be more room for "knowledge" giving you an advantage, but everybody will have somewhat the same shot at oportunity, it wont be locked away behind a paywall, now that you know my position i really want this:

there is a posibility i am wrong, but you have to show me where my logic is flawed, if you cant point out where i am wrong, then explain to me why having a paywall for huge advantage is a good thing
and be honest, say directly what you belive, if you think the noobs should be "taxed" more, or if you want them to require a deposit, or if you want them to play 5 years for them to get somewhere, just say it, dont hide your beliefs and assert you are correct, say honestly how you want the game to be

The only thing i ment is that if you cant do it with L and thats only 0.5% higher cost then you'd prolly fuckup with UL also. You don't have a winners mentality at all. They look at how you solve an issue with what you got and don't focus or get hung up in everything they can't change or have an impact on.

I didn't bother reading the whole post tbh so just replying to the start.

 

[Goldenboy24]

The only thing i ment is that if you cant do it with L and thats only 0.5% higher cost then you'd prolly fuckup with UL also. You don't have a winners mentality at all. They look at how you solve an issue with what you got and don't focus or get hung up in everything they can't change or have an impact on.

if what youre saying is true, and the impact is only the markup that you pay, then why argue against L guns that have 90 eff and 3.8 dpp like the UL gear does, you said multiple times that wanting such gear makes me wanna play the game for free, but this makes no sense either, if in the future il still have to pay for my L gear, which will just have better stats

 

[minim]

if what youre saying is true, and the impact is only the markup that you pay, then why argue against L guns that have 90 eff and 3.8 dpp like the UL gear does, you said multiple times that wanting such gear makes me wanna play the game for free, but this makes no sense either, if in the future il still have to pay for my L gear, which will just have better stats

They are out there allready. Farm it in RDI. You just wanted everything to fall into your lap for free and with minimum effort ^^

 

[Goldenboy24]

They are out there allready. Farm it in RDI. You just wanted everything to fall into your lap for free and with minimum effort ^^

fine, if they allready are so videly avialable as you claim, then the gun you are talking about must be in extremly high use if its so strong correct, please tell us the stats of the weapona , the markup, and how many got sold per month

il add here, if the markup is really high, it goes against what you said here :

The only thing i ment is that if you cant do it with L and thats only 0.5% higher cost then you'd prolly fuckup with UL also.

the only importaint factor for you seems to be the markup, so if the gun you are about to list has high markup, you just went against what you belive

but it seems that you then agree that there isnt really a problem against high eff high dpp L guns, since it allready exists, i am proposing, give new players such guns, give them something that has 1 dps with 100 eff, let that be the default tt gear, and from there on, update the existing guns by just increasing their stats and how often they drop, try to keep the markup same-ish as it is now