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Mr Odyseo

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Mr Odyseo Angel
Hey thee guys,

So I've been playing the game with my ep-41 with a105 improved. And I was told recently to add attachments to the gun, that I'd see better returns.
I thought that adding these would make the gun less eco, lowering the DPP, and in general, hurting me. So I'd like to know the actual answer to that. I was told to add Bullseye 8 + Longreach 4, and a second Bullseye 8.
My gun is tier 3, so I use 3 damage enhancers, if that makes a difference.
 
It's a trade off.

If you use a weapon with lower efficiency than a Bullseye 8 and Longreach 4, your efficiency will be improved by using those attachments. This increase in efficiency will improve your TT returns.
The decay on the attachments will decrease your DPP, which theoretically results in worse loot composition.
 
Captain Jack said:
It's a trade off.

If you use a weapon with lower efficiency than a Bullseye 8 and Longreach 4, your efficiency will be improved by using those attachments. This increase in efficiency will improve your TT returns.
The decay on the attachments will decrease your DPP, which theoretically results in worse loot composition.
Click to expand...
So using those attachments means more TT and less items?
 
Use those scopes and sights if you are looking to add additional cycle for more skills. Otherwise skip them.
 
Hey,

well the reason people told you that is, that it likely raises the Efficiency displayed on your gun when you inspect it. So people "know" that that is supposed to raise you tt return. There was a quote by MA saying that eff. directly effects tt returns by up to 7%. Looter level effect is unknown but it is worthy to keep in mind that the efficiency quote by MA was made looong before looter levels were introduced.

I started writing down the math, then realized no one cares. Upshot is: doesnt matter, cancels out, unless you for some reason REALLY care to cycle a few ped more per k ammo.

cheers
 
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Okay, so there is no real reason for me to even bother investing on these attachments. Thank you guys ^^
 
They are half straight.

You can increase Efficiency with these improvements, then add Eko Enhancers to compensate for this.
Eko enhancers has effect only on the weapon decay and ammo usage. They don't affect another attachments.
I use this fit and in my case I need 2 Eco enhancers... from each broken I'm +1 ped profit. I keep the main DPP and the Amp bonus I use.

The result is higher efficiency. The loss is two slots that I can use for more critical enhancers.
 
Thark said:
Hey,

well the reason people told you that is, that it likely raises the Efficiency displayed on your gun when you inspect it. So people "know" that that is supposed to raise you tt return. There was a quote by MA saying that eff. directly effects tt returns by up to 7%. Looter level effect is unknown but it is worthy to keep in mind that the efficiency quote by MA was made looong before looter levels were introduced.

I started writing down the math, then realized no one cares. Upshot is: doesnt matter, cancels out, unless you for some reason REALLY care to cycle a few ped more per k ammo.

cheers
Click to expand...

The loot system is no different from what you know about Uber 0-100 weapons. Use what you read against what you know about weapons 0-100. The dynamic moment in the game has the biggest effect.
 
That is very interesting, I never even thought about eco enhancers. I always just thought of them as the ugly useless little step niece of dmg enhancers.

Could you please explain how those work? What do you mean each broken one ads 1Ped profit?

Edit:
Deemer said:
The loot system is no different from what you know about Uber 0-100 weapons. Use what you read against what you know about weapons 0-100. The dynamic moment in the game has the biggest effect.
Click to expand...
I have no clue what that means. Sorry, can you elaborate? Maybe use google translate, or write it in your own language, PM me, what ever but I dont understand what you mean, sorry m8.
 
Mr Odyseo said:
Hey thee guys,

So I've been playing the game with my ep-41 with a105 improved. And I was told recently to add attachments to the gun, that I'd see better returns.
I thought that adding these would make the gun less eco, lowering the DPP, and in general, hurting me. So I'd like to know the actual answer to that. I was told to add Bullseye 8 + Longreach 4, and a second Bullseye 8.
My gun is tier 3, so I use 3 damage enhancers, if that makes a difference.
Click to expand...

Do you max out the ep-41 ?
 
Thark said:
That is very interesting, I never even thought about eco enhancers. I always just thought of them as the ugly useless little step niece of dmg enhancers.

Could you please explain how those work? What do you mean each broken one ads 1Ped profit?

Edit:

I have no clue what that means. Sorry, can you elaborate? Maybe use google translate, or write it in your own language, PM me, what ever but I dont understand what you mean, sorry m8.
Click to expand...

I use this translator, I'm not sure about the exact translation sometimes, but I trust him more than I trust myself, I try to give my best, I'm sorry.

Edit.
I'm sure you know how 0-100 weapons work and how SIB weapons work. The same is just replace the formula with Looter, Efficiency and DPP.
Now we using Uber weapons but they call it Looter profession.
 
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whatever amps or attachments you use make sure to keep it with high tt value. Always a pain in the A$$ to have to go find a repair terminal if you don't have a repair tool with you.
 
Scopes and laser sights look cool, put ‘em on.
 
Mr Odyseo said:
Okay, so there is no real reason for me to even bother investing on these attachments. Thank you guys ^^
Click to expand...
It is worth it to use them, if they aren't stressing your ped card, but the benefits are long term, you won't notice anything right away. You pay extra each shot for more skill and more efficiency. I would use them.
 
It’s probwbly more likely that you are just experiencing a downward trend in your loot return %. The negligible affect these 2 attachments have compared to your overall cycle would be impossible to detect.
 
Your skill gain and therefor your skillgain rate is determined by your turnover.

EP-41 Military, Adjusted with
Omegaton A105, Improved
costs you 17,195 PEC per shot at 100,0% skill gain rate.


EP-41 Military, Adjusted with
Omegaton A105, Improved and
Jzar Precision Scope +1,8% Skill Bonus (= extra skill gain) and
Ignaritz Laser Sight +2,2% Skill Bonus (= extra skill gain) and
Ignaritz Laser Sight +2,2% Skill Bonus (= extra skill gain)
costs you 17,501 PEC per shot at 106,2% skill gain rate

I chose those attachements because they are fairly easy to obtain, come with good stats and dont cost too much.

17,501 PEC per shot versus 17,195 PEC per shot = 1,78% more turnover per shot.

So for a [101,78% turnover] with attachements you generate [106,2% skillgain].
That means roughly +4,34% skillgain for free! [106,2%/101,78%=104,34%]

Over the course of the years this can sum up to thousand of PEDs you could have saved for reaching a certain skill level.
Additionally the attachements may improve your EFF and DPP behind the second digit after the comma.


:wise:
 
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Orion said:
Your skill gain and therefor your skillgain rate is determined by your turnover.

EP-41 Military, Adjusted with
Omegaton A105, Improved
costs you 17,195 PEC per shot at 100,0% skill gain rate.


EP-41 Military, Adjusted with
Omegaton A105, Improved and
Jzar Precision Scope +1,8% Skill Bonus (= extra skill gain) and
Ignaritz Laser Sight +2,2% Skill Bonus (= extra skill gain) and
Ignaritz Laser Sight +2,2% Skill Bonus (= extra skill gain)
costs you 17,501 PEC per shot at 106,2% skill gain rate

I chose those attachements because they are fairly easy to obtain, come with good stats and dont cost too much.

17,501 PEC per shot versus 17,195 PEC per shot = 1,78% more turnover per shot.

So for a [101,78% turnover] with attachements you generate [106,2% skillgain].
That means roughly +4,34% skillgain for free! [106,2%/101,78%=104,34%]

Over the course of the years this can sum up to thousand of PEDs you could have saved for reacing a certain skill level.
Additionally the attachements may improve your EFF and DPP behind the second digit after the comma.


:wise:
Click to expand...

Just a quick check, is the skill bonus you specified here actually been confirmed? (You say for example, +1.8% skill bonus for Jzar scope...)
 
The numbers I have given are the correct stats for the chosen attachements. If that was your question.
 
Orion said:
The numbers I have given are the correct stats for the chosen attachements. If that was your question.
Click to expand...
No, my question was do the numbers on the attachments actually reflect the exact percent in increased skill gain. As far as I know this is not confirmed, but I'd love information about this if this is confirmed.
 
I still think that skills work on a point system, but it is difficult to determine, because of the dynamics of the game, it also affects the skills.
If these were percentages, they would be written as such.

The topic that was spit on.

Power leveling

It's OK, not everyone knows to face north when looting the creature ;) I understand that there are people who play for few pec/hour. But I didn't expect you not to test the "exploit".. so I doubt whether you are trying to just cover up the facts by shifting the view point of the topic. The...
www.planetcalypsoforum.com www.planetcalypsoforum.com
 
Every shot/swing/action attemp has a chance to score a skill gain.
The chance to gain skillpoints increases with the cost per shot [ ---> see turnover from above].
I am convinced that the attachement bonus increases this chance by the promised value.

Determining a chance can only be done by extensive empiric tests.
Empiric tests would require to note tens of thousands of skill gains to show effective and authoritative results. That would be so extensive that i refrain to do them. So i have no self tested proof and I fear we have to take MA's word for granted that the attachement bonus gets added as promised.
But from the game mechanic's point of view it makes sense to alter the chance (old pen and paper roleplay master knowledge - damn, im getting old...).


Note:
The gained skill value is dependant on the skill rank you already have achieved in this particular skill.
A brand new skill always gains 1,0000 points, when unlocked.
The skill gain value gradually decreases as your skill rank increases.
At 10.000 skill points ( = Level 100 for this particular skill ) a skill gain only grants you 0,0100 ( = 1/100th of 1,0000) additional points.
Under certain conditions i observed the the skill gain to have a multiplier. E.g. 0,0200 instead of 0,0100.
 
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Thanks for your insight Orion.

I use them because I just assume that it does SOMETHING of value and the relative decay is so negligible that I’m happy paying for whatever benefit that I hope I am receiving.
I feel I’m not alone in this mindset either. 😄😄.
 
Orion said:
Every shot/swing/action attemp has a chance to score a skill gain.
The chance to gain skillpoints increases with the cost per shot [ ---> see turnover from above].
I am convinced that the attachement bonus increases this chance by the promised value.

Determining a chance can only be done by extensive empiric tests.
Empiric tests would require to note tens of thousands of skill gains to show effective and authoritative results. That would be so extensive that i refrain to do them. So i have no self tested proof and I fear we have to take MA's word for granted that the attachement bonus gets added as promised.
But from the game mechanic's point of view it makes sense to alter the chance (old pen and paper roleplay master knowledge - damn, im getting old...).


Note:
The gained skill value is dependant on the skill rank you already have achieved in this particular skill.
A brand new skill always gains 1,0000 points, when unlocked.
The skill gain value gradually lowers as your skill rank increases.
At 10.000 skill points a skill gain only grants you 0,0100 additional points.
Under certain conditions i observed the the skill gain to have a multiplier. E.g. 0,0200 instead of 0,0100.
Click to expand...

If these attachments work in percentage, then they will not lose their significance in weapons with 5 pek and 2 ped per shot?
 
Deemer said:
If these attachments work in percentage, then they will not lose their significance in weapons with 5 pek and 2 ped per shot?
Click to expand...
Correct.

But:
On the 2 PED per shot gun the attachement's decay cost you maybe 1% of the total cost per shot.
On the 2 PEC per shot gun the attachement's decay cost you maybe 50% of the total cost per shot.

Since Loot2.0 this has an influence on the loot composition.
Disproportionately big attachements on the 2 pec per shot gun would decrease the damage per pec disproportionately, so the loot algorithm would increase shrapnel ratio and decrease quality loot ratio, while maintaining your average TT return rate percentage.
In the end you need to balance weapon size and attachement size somehow to reflect your needs.

With quality loot MU% being so low as it is today, it might become interesting to generate more shrapnel return (guaranteed 101%) than shitty quality loots (some animal oils at 100,20% lately).
Especially for low end mobs, which usually drop more shit quality loot than ESIs or Modified Shadow parts.

It is all interwoven.
 
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Orion said:
Especially for low end mobs, which usually drop more shit quality loot than ESIs or Modified Shadow parts.
Click to expand...

You mean low end mobs drop loot with quality of this?
oYYKRDv.jpg
 
I think it is more likely that the scope/sight skill bonus is a flat amount given not a %. My reasoning for this is the huge difference in potential in TT Skill gained when using the same scope/sights on much higher level weapons.
7k3bpYG.jpg

Note there's no % on the line with the attachment skill bonus.

Also, from an old update:
"Attachment Parameter Changes

  • Skill Bonus on Attachments . The skill modification effect now have a clarifying tool tip. The attachment gives a bonus to the user's hit ability and it has full effect when the target is on maximum weapon range. When the target comes closer the effect decreases and it reaches its minimum effect when the target is in the immediate vicinity. Since the effect is variable the hit ability parameter display is not affected by the skill modification.
  • New Parameter on Attachments . A new parameter has been introduced on laser sights and scopes. This new parameter gives the user a skill increase bonus when the attachment is attached to the tool. The skill increase bonus of the attachment will affect the skill that the tool affect. The number does not indicate an actual increase rate percentage but a higher number is better than a lower."

So I don't think that number is a %...

It would be nice to know exactly how much the additional SIB correlates to..
 
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