#### kingofaces

##### Alpha

- Joined
- Jun 9, 2013

- Posts
- 687

- Location
- US

- Avatar Name
- Tony KingofAces Hans

Back when I started playing, it was difficult to find what the formula was for auction fees, and there were often different formulas out there that gave different results. That happened to me even more so when it came to figuring out shop fees that have even less information out there. Looking back, many of these are approximations and often don't give correct values, so I went back to get the correct values and recalculate how to determine the fee you will pay from scratch. That just involves starting to list an item for TT+1, TT+2, etc. and checking what the fee would be and doing regression analysis on that data done in R.

In both cases, the % markup does not matter like you see listed in auctions for determining the fee. Instead you need to convert % markup to TT + notation. If you are selling 100 PED of an item and listing it for 101, that's TT+ 1. How many PED of markup you are adding (e.g., 1) is what directly determines the fee, not 101% in this case. I will refer to this value as MU for a variable in the formulas below.

Auctions can only be listed in 1 PED increments, so if you list something that has 0.5 total TT, you could list it for 1 PED (TT+ 0.5), 2 PED (TT+1.5), etc. Auction fees will always be at least 0.50 PED for a TT+0 auction. From there, the fees follow:

In Excel that would be:

Part of that requires rounding

Shop fees in concept work similarly to auction fees. However, you must list your item at least at TT+1, but you can increase the MU by one PEC rather than one PED at a time. If you list an item at TT+1 in your shop, a 0.02 PED fee will be added to your item's cost. Unlike auctions, you do not pay this fee, but rather the customer, and the fee goes to the landowner of the mall, etc.. The fee is reflected in the final markup you will see the item listed at. This can make pricing tricky because the shop menu only shows you the MU you receive, not the final markup the customer will pay. If you want to target a certain final markup price, spreadsheets help with the calculations.

In Excel that would be:

Like auction fees, this also requires rounding

When you play with the numbers, you'll see that shop fees are always lower than auction fees. If you're going to a run a shop, it's important to know what MU someone would pay at auction for the item you are selling, determine your effective MU there, and price your shop items above what you'd get at auction (and below what they'd pay at auction). That's also while pricing it cheaper than what the buyer might get at auction to make going to a shop worthwhile. Exceptions apply, but that is where the value in a shop can be both in terms of investment on your part and for a customer.

Rounding errors can cause some issues for calculating fees, which is why values are rounded down in the formulas get the final fee to make sure the calculated value is the same as the fee displayed in the example data I used. If you want to see (or check your math) the example fees I used to do the non-linear regression to calculate these formulas, click the tables below to expand them. There are some instances were the fee will be off by 1 PEC, but that's as close as I could get the formulas, and I assume it's due to some other internal rounding going on in the game where the fee displayed is itself rounded off somehow. If someone finds a formula that works better, let me know.

Auction fee data

**General note on auction and shop fees**In both cases, the % markup does not matter like you see listed in auctions for determining the fee. Instead you need to convert % markup to TT + notation. If you are selling 100 PED of an item and listing it for 101, that's TT+ 1. How many PED of markup you are adding (e.g., 1) is what directly determines the fee, not 101% in this case. I will refer to this value as MU for a variable in the formulas below.

**Auction fees**Auctions can only be listed in 1 PED increments, so if you list something that has 0.5 total TT, you could list it for 1 PED (TT+ 0.5), 2 PED (TT+1.5), etc. Auction fees will always be at least 0.50 PED for a TT+0 auction. From there, the fees follow:

**Auction fee**(R code) = floor((MU * 74.62) / (1493 + MU)*100)/100+0.5In Excel that would be:

**=ROUNDDOWN((MU*74.62)/(1493+MU)*100,0)/100+0.5**Part of that requires rounding

*down*to the nearest PEC, which is the floor function in many programs or ROUNDDOWN in Excel. For a TT+1 lot, that will mean 0.5499 rounds down to 0.54. This amount will be deducted from your PED card when you list the auction, so you will need to subtract this amount from what the auction eventually sells for to determine your effective net markup. For very small stacks or low markup items in somewhat larger amounts, 0.50 PED can easily mean you actually get less than TT by listing it on the auction at one price, and increasing the price by 1 PED may be well above the markup people typically would buy at. Be sure to check this before listing an auction.__Shop Fees__Shop fees in concept work similarly to auction fees. However, you must list your item at least at TT+1, but you can increase the MU by one PEC rather than one PED at a time. If you list an item at TT+1 in your shop, a 0.02 PED fee will be added to your item's cost. Unlike auctions, you do not pay this fee, but rather the customer, and the fee goes to the landowner of the mall, etc.. The fee is reflected in the final markup you will see the item listed at. This can make pricing tricky because the shop menu only shows you the MU you receive, not the final markup the customer will pay. If you want to target a certain final markup price, spreadsheets help with the calculations.

**Shop fee**(R code) = floor((MU * 37.31) / (1493.59 + MU)*100)/100In Excel that would be:

**=ROUNDDOWN((MU * 37.31) / (1493.59 + MU)*100,0)/100**Like auction fees, this also requires rounding

*down*to the nearest PEC.**Final notes**When you play with the numbers, you'll see that shop fees are always lower than auction fees. If you're going to a run a shop, it's important to know what MU someone would pay at auction for the item you are selling, determine your effective MU there, and price your shop items above what you'd get at auction (and below what they'd pay at auction). That's also while pricing it cheaper than what the buyer might get at auction to make going to a shop worthwhile. Exceptions apply, but that is where the value in a shop can be both in terms of investment on your part and for a customer.

Rounding errors can cause some issues for calculating fees, which is why values are rounded down in the formulas get the final fee to make sure the calculated value is the same as the fee displayed in the example data I used. If you want to see (or check your math) the example fees I used to do the non-linear regression to calculate these formulas, click the tables below to expand them. There are some instances were the fee will be off by 1 PEC, but that's as close as I could get the formulas, and I assume it's due to some other internal rounding going on in the game where the fee displayed is itself rounded off somehow. If someone finds a formula that works better, let me know.

Auction fee data

Shop fee data

MU (TT+ X) Fee

Calculated Fee 1 0.54 0.54 2 0.59 0.59 3 0.64 0.64 4 0.69 0.69 5 0.74 0.74 6 0.79 0.79 7 0.84 0.84 10 0.99 0.99 15 1.24 1.24 20 1.48 1.48 25 1.72 1.72 30 1.97 1.96 50 2.91 2.91 75 4.02 4.06 100 5.18 5.18 125 6.26 6.26 150 7.31 7.31 175 8.33 8.32 200 9.31 9.31 250 11.2 11.2 300 12.98 12.98 350 14.67 14.67 400 16.27 16.26 500 19.22 19.22 600 21.89 21.89 700 24.32 24.31 800 26.54 26.53 900 28.57 28.56 1000 30.43 30.43 1500 37.9 37.89 2500 47.22 47.21 5000 57.97 57.96 7500 62.73 62.73 10000 65.43 65.42 20000 69.94 69.93 30000 71.58 71.58 100000 74.02 74.02 1000000 75.01 75 9000000 75.11 75.1

MU (TT+ X) Actual Fee Calculated Fee 1 0.02 0.02 1.5 0.03 0.03 2 0.04 0.04 2.5 0.06 0.06 3 0.07 0.07 4 0.09 0.09 5 0.12 0.12 6 0.14 0.14 7 0.17 0.17 10 0.24 0.24 15 0.37 0.37 20 0.49 0.49 25 0.61 0.61 30 0.73 0.73 50 1.2 1.2 75 1.78 1.78 100 2.34 2.34 125 2.88 2.88 150 3.4 3.4 175 3.91 3.91 200 4.4 4.4 250 5.35 5.34 300 6.24 6.24 350 7.08 7.08 400 7.88 7.88 500 9.36 9.35 600 10.69 10.69 700 11.91 11.9 800 13.02 13.01 900 14.03 14.02 1000 14.96 14.96 1500 18.7 18.69 2500 23.36 23.35 5000 28.73 28.72 7500 31.11 31.11 10000 32.46 32.46 20000 34.72 34.71 30000 35.54 35.54

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