Auction Bots at Jurra

The Jetman

Prowler
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Posts
1,409
Location
Sheffield UK
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Paul Jetman Masters
Auction Alts at Jurra

over the last few months i've seen good amount of bots stood at the auctioneer at jurra. they mainly have russiany names, all wear adj pixie except 1 wears scout harness, 3 wear ark xmas hats. i've observed them as i come & go and yesterday i saw all 6 d/c at the exact same time, which tells me its one user. i have a avatar i suspect, but havn't seen anything to confirm it.

think its worth reporting? or watching more closely and wait for someone to trade with one
 
Last edited:

silas

Prowler
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Posts
1,117
Location
Denmark, Copehagen
Avatar Name
Nikopol
I know exacly who it is. I even asked him if it was his, and he PM me saying it was his selling avas. But that they all have real persons ID so MA cant do shit about it.

Cheers
 

Ace Flyster

Elite
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Posts
4,987
Location
England, London
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Dave Ace Flyster
Very unlikely to be bots, far more likely secondary avatars because of the limit of no. of auction slots.


Rgds

Ace
 

RickEngland

Elite
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Posts
4,404
Location
Essex England UK
Society
Jurai Blood
Avatar Name
Rickard Rick England
People wonder why MA wants to kill all MU.

I don't blame MA though, it's costly to monitor this activity with more staff. It's much easier to crash the market in rings for example to counter it.

It will come to a point MA will limit withdrawals, to a percentage of deposits.

Like it or not, it will happen. The only thing probably stopping that happen, is MA will most likely feel uncomfortable reminding players what they've deposited over the years.

So guess what they will do? limit it to a percentage of deposits over the last 2 years....LOL.

That comes with problems of course if invested heavily in deeds or LA, so I'm sure they would have exceptions.

I do think it's fair though, that if you've never deposited, you shouldn't be allowed to take anything out. and if some players don't like that...F*** um.


Rick
 

osga

Provider
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Posts
188
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
milton osga hastings
Had already seen that, happened exactly the same too, even recorded that and reported that on a support case with video... and guess what ? MA doesn't care, zero replies :laugh: :cool: :eyecrazy: :scratch2:

And i even have a video of someone hunting in "bot mode", which was also reported... and guess what ? :laugh:
 

golddude

Elite
Joined
Jul 25, 2007
Posts
2,818
Location
South Dakota, USA
Society
Irken Invaders
Avatar Name
Ary Steve Hunter
quit f***king up on the auction and it won't matter :laugh:
 

Manique

Marauder
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Posts
6,510
Location
Portugal
Society
In Da Pocket
Avatar Name
Paulo Manique Santos
its quite a known name already and if MA wanted to have done something about it, they would've
But i bet he has avatars named after his dog, cat, perrikit etc etc :laugh:
 

Majstorex

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Posts
854
yup, the other day I was at New oxford.

The main avatar was standing at the slot machine, logging in alt after alt trading them and logging them off again.

How do I know they were alts? in the span of 10 minutes some 6 avatars loggedin/out in the exact same spot, and obviously doing a trade with main account.

Anyone wants the name of main account pm me.

And I agree with Rick, if youve never deposited you shouldnt be able to withdraw money from game.
 

Manique

Marauder
Joined
Feb 18, 2008
Posts
6,510
Location
Portugal
Society
In Da Pocket
Avatar Name
Paulo Manique Santos
yup, the other day I was at New oxford.

The main avatar was standing at the slot machine, logging in alt after alt trading them and logging them off again.

How do I know they were alts? in the span of 10 minutes some 6 avatars loggedin/out in the exact same spot, and obviously doing a trade with main account.

Anyone wants the name of main account pm me.

And I agree with Rick, if youve never deposited you shouldnt be able to withdraw money from game.

That is just silly statement
it'd kil the whole concept of EU anyway.
And trust me, some of the depositors do far shadier shit than non depositers from my experience
 

Majstorex

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Posts
854
That is just silly statement
it'd kil the whole concept of EU anyway.
And trust me, some of the depositors do far shadier shit than non depositers from my experience

Well if you know for certain report them maybe something will be done about it if its against EULA, as far as I know multi accounting is against rules and should be addressed by MA.

Why should the depositors fuel the people that are leeching of the game and bringing nothing to it?

Do you think this can go on forever to the point where money put in game wont be covering the withdrawls ammount ?

and you call me pesimistic if you want
 

maxwellhawk

Prowler
Joined
Feb 23, 2005
Posts
1,418
Location
by the sea
Society
Damage Inc.
Avatar Name
max hawk phoenix
I thought New Oxford was renamed to New Botford :confused:;)
 

sponza

Old
Joined
Mar 14, 2013
Posts
98
Location
Croatia
Avatar Name
mawa sponza ludacha
?????? ????? ??????? you say wut? :rolleyes:
 

The Jetman

Prowler
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Posts
1,409
Location
Sheffield UK
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Paul Jetman Masters
?????? ????? ??????? you say wut? :rolleyes:

lol yea, seems its pretty well known fact.. ive had a few messages with the same name (well ingame name not ????'s ;) )
 

DoA

Old Alpha
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Posts
851
Location
Romania
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Daughter of Anarchy

I do think it's fair though, that if you've never deposited, you shouldn't be allowed to take anything out. and if some players don't like that...F*** um.

I totally disagree with your quote... the fact that someone (let's say me for simplicity of the discussion) doesn't deposit, doesn't mean that we play for free... we pay MA's cut for all out activities like everyone else and our money (except the case of riggers) didn't came out of "thin air", but they were deposited, just by someone else, who then paid us for markup or services.

As far as MA is concerned all that matters is the total deposits, withdraws, cycled money, monetary mass is all that matters; it carry zero importance for them who deposits and who withdraws, but just how much is being deposited and how much is being withdrawn.
 

Majstorex

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Posts
854
I totally disagree with your quote... the fact that someone (let's say me for simplicity of the discussion) doesn't deposit, doesn't mean that we play for free... we pay MA's cut for all out activities like everyone else and our money (except the case of riggers) didn't came out of "thin air", but they were deposited, just by someone else, who then paid us for markup or services.

As far as MA is concerned all that matters is the total deposits, withdraws, cycled money, monetary mass is all that matters; it carry zero importance for them who deposits and who withdraws, but just how much is being deposited and how much is being withdrawn.


thats like when you go to a party and the drinks there are free, and you drink all the free beer that you can, and you say, "hey even though someone else payed for the beer, the beer wasnt for free, I had to drink it you know"

pretty words wont change the fact that youre playing for free
 

Sionkiewicz

Prowler
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Posts
1,171
Location
Boston, MA
Society
General - NBK Army
Avatar Name
Brendan Slick Gould
thats like when you go to a party and the drinks there are free, and you drink all the free beer that you can, and you say, "hey even though someone else payed for the beer, the beer wasnt for free, I had to drink it you know"

pretty words wont change the fact that youre playing for free

No.. it's not. The players who play for free pay with their labor (time in game). They do all the shit jobs we depositors don't want to do and would rather pay someone else for. Spending hours at the sweat circles.. Fruit and Stone walking.. Hours grinding mobs for materials and dealing with the bad loot runs with no "deposited" funds to back them up. It's a different type of play and you have to treat it like a job for it to work.

BTW, last time I checked the advertisements for this game "Play for Free" was plastered all over it. If MA wants to stop that, they best change who they are trying to get into the game.

Now, if you think someone is playing with multiple avatars (even if they are registered to different people) you should report your observations to MA and let them handle it. They will check the IPs used and see if they see a trend and act on it. If anything, they can shut down the avatars and ask for the IDs to be set to them which would be a real pain in the ass to a botter.

Just my :twocents:
 

Futurama

Elite
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Posts
3,677
Location
56°58′N 24°8′E
Society
Freelance
Avatar Name
mike Futurama anderson
People wonder why MA wants to kill all MU.

I don't blame MA though, it's costly to monitor this activity with more staff. It's much easier to crash the market in rings for example to counter it.

It will come to a point MA will limit withdrawals, to a percentage of deposits.

Like it or not, it will happen. The only thing probably stopping that happen, is MA will most likely feel uncomfortable reminding players what they've deposited over the years.

So guess what they will do? limit it to a percentage of deposits over the last 2 years....LOL.

That comes with problems of course if invested heavily in deeds or LA, so I'm sure they would have exceptions.

I do think it's fair though, that if you've never deposited, you shouldn't be allowed to take anything out. and if some players don't like that...F*** um.


Rick


1) considering that bot hunters went with legal action and in the end got some sort of a settlement, something like this would spark the same reaction, but not just from few people but from many;

2) if its said it will be in future e.g. "from 2018 January 1st all new withdraws will be limited to x% amount of your new deposits" - the game will die. Its that simple.


Stop spreading BS around and stop raging because you can't deal with money issues, that's your issue not everyone elses.
 

The Jetman

Prowler
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Posts
1,409
Location
Sheffield UK
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Paul Jetman Masters
No.. it's not. The players who play for free pay with their labor (time in game). They do all the shit jobs we depositors don't want to do and would rather pay someone else for. Spending hours at the sweat circles.. Fruit and Stone walking.. Hours grinding mobs for materials and dealing with the bad loot runs with no "deposited" funds to back them up. It's a different type of play and you have to treat it like a job for it to work.

BTW, last time I checked the advertisements for this game "Play for Free" was plastered all over it. If MA wants to stop that, they best change who they are trying to get into the game.

Now, if you think someone is playing with multiple avatars (even if they are registered to different people) you should report your observations to MA and let them handle it. They will check the IPs used and see if they see a trend and act on it. If anything, they can shut down the avatars and ask for the IDs to be set to them which would be a real pain in the ass to a botter.

Just my :twocents:

agree completely, imagine the market without the 100's of sweaters on the breadline

i have reported and had a response, but my GC isn't with me at work, so i've no idea what the reply is
 

Sionkiewicz

Prowler
Joined
Dec 12, 2005
Posts
1,171
Location
Boston, MA
Society
General - NBK Army
Avatar Name
Brendan Slick Gould
It will come to a point MA will limit withdrawals, to a percentage of deposits.

People would sue.. and they would win.. and EU would be dead.

MA has allowed way too many Non-depositors to pull money out of this game over the last decade to make a change like that. If they did, they would have to give EVERYONE a chance to pull their cash back out before putting the rule in place which would be the mass exodus and the end for MA.

Rick, we both have been in this game for a long time and have seen a ton of stupid shit MA has done, but, that would be one of the most stupid things ever and even MA wouldn't kill their cash cow of the business portfolio.
 

osga

Provider
Joined
Sep 21, 2014
Posts
188
Society
The Ministry
Avatar Name
milton osga hastings
Now, if you think someone is playing with multiple avatars (even if they are registered to different people) you should report your observations to MA and let them handle it. They will check the IPs used and see if they see a trend and act on it. If anything, they can shut down the avatars and ask for the IDs to be set to them which would be a real pain in the ass to a botter.

And then we can have bot farms (different computers on a network, each one with a EU client running), and each computer using a VPN to get a different IP address... This will make it impossible to check IPs. They certainly have other ways of verifying if someone is alt/bot/player.

Big questions are... does MA really care ? Will MA risk banning one of the biggest "ped-cyclers" in-game ? I certainly believe not because they're most likely not losing a ped with it. Their only loss would be such a player leaving the game.

We are the only ones losing to this, as the loot pool gets empty and the markups destroyed.

Fast and easy solution ? Not buy things from certain players that are known to be abusing the system. If they don't sell, they won't produce, ending up with peds stuck in items that nobody will buy. And then they have to rethink their dodgy strategy or abandon the game.
 

The Jetman

Prowler
Joined
Jul 4, 2010
Posts
1,409
Location
Sheffield UK
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Paul Jetman Masters
And then we can have bot farms (different computers on a network, each one with a EU client running), and each computer using a VPN to get a different IP address... This will make it impossible to check IPs. They certainly have other ways of verifying if someone is alt/bot/player.

Big questions are... does MA really care ? Will MA risk banning one of the biggest "ped-cyclers" in-game ? I certainly believe not because they're most likely not losing a ped with it. Their only loss would be such a player leaving the game.

We are the only ones losing to this, as the loot pool gets empty and the markups destroyed.

Fast and easy solution ? Not buy things from certain players that are known to be abusing the system. If they don't sell, they won't produce, ending up with peds stuck in items that nobody will buy. And then they have to rethink their dodgy strategy or abandon the game.

i dont think they need to ban him, just ban the alts (with or without letting him remove assets) and warn him against further alt use. Anyone with his kind of turnover would either refrain from using alts in the future or at least become a little smarter
 

DoA

Old Alpha
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Posts
851
Location
Romania
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Daughter of Anarchy
thats like when you go to a party and the drinks there are free, and you drink all the free beer that you can, and you say, "hey even though someone else payed for the beer, the beer wasnt for free, I had to drink it you know"

pretty words wont change the fact that youre playing for free

No, that's exactly not like that, and I'll explain you why.

There are a few instances (oil rigs and starting mission rewards) where actually MA is giving away free money, but except these, MA is not giving away free money... sweat, as well as fruits, have 0.01 PED / K value, so basically all their value comes from MU which is paid by other players. Practically, what a free player does is to sell their time, by working / being employed by a paid player; they pay us for doing something they don't enjoy doing themselves.



Let's take fruits for example.

A paid player has a pet that he wants to level up and for that he needs nutrio bars, for which, in turn he needs fruits; since these can only by manually collected by someone he has two options:

1. Spend a (big) part of his game time walking for fruits, and not generating any decay / profit for MA, then, when he found his fruits, make the nutrios, feed his pet and move on hunting/mining/crafting, for whatever game time he has left. (making up numbers, let's say that he plays for 20 hours per week, from which he has to sacrifice five hours for fruit walking, so he is left with 15 hours for hunts/mines/crafts)

2. Decide that he can't be arsed with this mundane task, so just pay a free player to do this for him, and since he doesn't have to waste his time with fruit walking, he can spend all his play time hunting/mining/crafting; in the end, the free player would eventually also spend the money he earn to finance his own small hunting/mining/crafting. (sticking up with the made up numbers, it means that the paid player hunts/mines/crafts all his 20 hours, plus the free player now affords to hunt/mine/craft for one hour by himself)

So, in the first scenario, there are 15 hours of decay-generating activities (profit for MA), while in the second scenario there are 21 hours of decay-generating activities (profit for MA)... which translates to:

- MA makes more money, from two different sources - the paid player has more time to effectively play, so he will spend more money and the free player will also have some money to play
- the paid player would have more fun, because he will only do things he enjoys (although he will have to deposit more for this, but that's his call)
- the free player would be able to play the game too



To keep with your drinks example:
- The main professions (hunting, mining, crafting) are the "drinks"
- MA is the "bar"; they don't give away the "drinks", but sell them and they have a profit margin on any sale
- So all "drinks" sold on the "bar" must be (and are) paid by someone
- Now someone may be too lazy or wasted to go to the bar himself and may just say to another guy from his table "look, here's $30, go buy me two beers and get one to yourself for the trouble too"
- Since every person can only drink so many "drinks" before "getting wasted or wetting themselves", the fact that more people get to "drink" means that, on total, more "drinks" will be sold from the "bar"
- So, in the end, the only person that loses something is the "lazy guy" that can't be arsed to move his a$$ to the bar, but prefers to have a "valet" to do this for him, but, even here, the cool thing is that he's OK with paying for his confort
- Now another guy (you), from a totally different table, comes and complain that "valets" should not be allowed in the "bar", since they don't pay for their own "drinks", but their "employer" does...
 

Svarog

Slayer
Joined
Dec 11, 2006
Posts
9,455
It will come to a point MA will limit withdrawals, to a percentage of deposits.

No one would deposit a buck if that would happen. Even limiting to "withdrawals = deposits" would kill the game in a blink, because a massive part of the playerbase is driven by dreams of hitting big.


Allowing non-depositors to withdraw, allowing auction bots, second avatars and whatnot isn't just a lesser evil, it doesn't even seem an evil compared to that.
 

RickEngland

Elite
Joined
Nov 14, 2011
Posts
4,404
Location
Essex England UK
Society
Jurai Blood
Avatar Name
Rickard Rick England
1) considering that bot hunters went with legal action and in the end got some sort of a settlement, something like this would spark the same reaction, but not just from few people but from many;

2) if its said it will be in future e.g. "from 2018 January 1st all new withdraws will be limited to x% amount of your new deposits" - the game will die. Its that simple.


Stop spreading BS around and stop raging because you can't deal with money issues, that's your issue not everyone elses.

Politics is a funny game. I got more +reps than neg reps for my post though.

It's not about personal finance issues, it's about MA finance issues. If you can't see that you're deluded. The game gets more expensive, with more devaluation for simply one reasons only....MA need more money. I said "needs" not "wants".

So MA will do whatever it takes to ensure their income keeps the game alive, and the more takers there're over givers, the harder the situation will become for the players.....that my friends is simple economics and fact.

Not that I give a sh** as I'm off to Compet as soon as possible.

have a good day

Rick
 

Ace Flyster

Elite
Joined
Aug 31, 2006
Posts
4,987
Location
England, London
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Dave Ace Flyster
To keep with your drinks example:
- The main professions (hunting, mining, crafting) are the "drinks"
- MA is the "bar"; they don't give away the "drinks", but sell them and they have a profit margin on any sale
- So all "drinks" sold on the "bar" must be (and are) paid by someone
- Now someone may be too lazy or wasted to go to the bar himself and may just say to another guy from his table "look, here's $30, go buy me two beers and get one to yourself for the trouble too"
- Since every person can only drink so many "drinks" before "getting wasted or wetting themselves", the fact that more people get to "drink" means that, on total, more "drinks" will be sold from the "bar"
- So, in the end, the only person that loses something is the "lazy guy" that can't be arsed to move his a$$ to the bar, but prefers to have a "valet" to do this for him, but, even here, the cool thing is that he's OK with paying for his confort
- Now another guy (you), from a totally different table, comes and complain that "valets" should not be allowed in the "bar", since they don't pay for their own "drinks", but their "employer" does...


Good explanation....+rep!!

Players that withdraw, have ONLY made money from other players. Not from MA.

To base withdrawals on peoples deposit, is one of the stupidest ideas i have heard in a while.


Rgds

Ace
 

Futurama

Elite
Joined
Mar 11, 2006
Posts
3,677
Location
56°58′N 24°8′E
Society
Freelance
Avatar Name
mike Futurama anderson
Politics is a funny game. I got more +reps than neg reps for my post though.

It's not about personal finance issues, it's about MA finance issues. If you can't see that you're deluded. The game gets more expensive, with more devaluation for simply one reasons only....MA need more money. I said "needs" not "wants".

So MA will do whatever it takes to ensure their income keeps the game alive, and the more takers there're over givers, the harder the situation will become for the players.....that my friends is simple economics and fact.

Not that I give a sh** as I'm off to Compet as soon as possible.

have a good day

Rick

I totally agree about the MA financials - e.g. withdrawal time used to be a lot lower simply because MA has cash for very small portion of the peds ingame. That's nothing new. But what you suggested would be suicide for MA - plain and simple.

As for your personal thing - yeah, you kinda have been whining for years now that you cannot make profit, so others shouldn't be able to as well.

As for Compet - loool, my prediction is you will be back max year later, because there is a high probability that the compet will be deserted after a year or so after launch.
 

jetsina

Stalker
Joined
Sep 28, 2010
Posts
2,171
As for Compet - loool, my prediction is you will be back max year later, because there is a high probability that the compet will be deserted after a year or so after launch.

This thread sure is taking twists and turns, considering the title it has. However, I find it a pretty interesting and civil discussion centred mainly around how some people may be able to profit from EU (where that profit comes from and then the ability to withdraw it). In that sense the discussion is generally on-topic I think.... but that last comment is a bit far by any standards, but it's a valid fear, yes.

In my eyes it only makes sense to run alts if they can somehow make more profit than single avatars over time. This could be by farming certain one-off missions, increased number of AH slots, use of macros for different tasks simultaneously (possibly fruit-walking etc? but also an AH-macro or more than one?).

As I've said before, I believe MA should allow everybody to have alts but to design things so that the benefits are limited. I know the introduction of food and/or sleep requirements would be controversial, but I believe it could be done in such a way that free play is still possible, but auto-bots are disadvantaged.

Unfortunately, it doesn't look as if any higher degree of platform design can be expected from MA on this, however. Either that or they will carry out a half-baked implementation which hurts without actually solving things :(
 

Majstorex

Old Alpha
Joined
Jun 22, 2010
Posts
854
No, that's exactly not like that, and I'll explain you why.

There are a few instances (oil rigs and starting mission rewards) where actually MA is giving away free money, but except these, MA is not giving away free money... sweat, as well as fruits, have 0.01 PED / K value, so basically all their value comes from MU which is paid by other players. Practically, what a free player does is to sell their time, by working / being employed by a paid player; they pay us for doing something they don't enjoy doing themselves.



Let's take fruits for example.

A paid player has a pet that he wants to level up and for that he needs nutrio bars, for which, in turn he needs fruits; since these can only by manually collected by someone he has two options:

1. Spend a (big) part of his game time walking for fruits, and not generating any decay / profit for MA, then, when he found his fruits, make the nutrios, feed his pet and move on hunting/mining/crafting, for whatever game time he has left. (making up numbers, let's say that he plays for 20 hours per week, from which he has to sacrifice five hours for fruit walking, so he is left with 15 hours for hunts/mines/crafts)

2. Decide that he can't be arsed with this mundane task, so just pay a free player to do this for him, and since he doesn't have to waste his time with fruit walking, he can spend all his play time hunting/mining/crafting; in the end, the free player would eventually also spend the money he earn to finance his own small hunting/mining/crafting. (sticking up with the made up numbers, it means that the paid player hunts/mines/crafts all his 20 hours, plus the free player now affords to hunt/mine/craft for one hour by himself)

So, in the first scenario, there are 15 hours of decay-generating activities (profit for MA), while in the second scenario there are 21 hours of decay-generating activities (profit for MA)... which translates to:

- MA makes more money, from two different sources - the paid player has more time to effectively play, so he will spend more money and the free player will also have some money to play
- the paid player would have more fun, because he will only do things he enjoys (although he will have to deposit more for this, but that's his call)
- the free player would be able to play the game too



To keep with your drinks example:
- The main professions (hunting, mining, crafting) are the "drinks"
- MA is the "bar"; they don't give away the "drinks", but sell them and they have a profit margin on any sale
- So all "drinks" sold on the "bar" must be (and are) paid by someone
- Now someone may be too lazy or wasted to go to the bar himself and may just say to another guy from his table "look, here's $30, go buy me two beers and get one to yourself for the trouble too"
- Since every person can only drink so many "drinks" before "getting wasted or wetting themselves", the fact that more people get to "drink" means that, on total, more "drinks" will be sold from the "bar"
- So, in the end, the only person that loses something is the "lazy guy" that can't be arsed to move his a$$ to the bar, but prefers to have a "valet" to do this for him, but, even here, the cool thing is that he's OK with paying for his confort
- Now another guy (you), from a totally different table, comes and complain that "valets" should not be allowed in the "bar", since they don't pay for their own "drinks", but their "employer" does...

like I said, you can wrap it in as many pretty words as you like.
 

Coelacanth

Stalker
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Posts
2,167
Location
Alberta, Canada
Avatar Name
Coelacanth Coelacanth Maryka
Players that withdraw, have ONLY made money from other players. Not from MA.
I don't think it's that simple, Ace. A player can acquire all sorts of items in-game, some with insane markups. Someone can buy something that has 20k PEDs markup. The seller now has over 20k PEDs on their account. Thus far, no actual money has changed hands, as far as MA is concerned.

Now, the seller decides to cash out a 300-PED gun for 15k PEDs. As this is all from MARKUP, and not actual item value, if it gets cashed out, MA takes the hit because it comes out of their pockets when someone withdraws. That Mod Merc or Imp MK2 that someone bought for 5K PEDs 10 years ago and later got sold for 5 - 10 times as much due to inflation/markup, now creates a big empty spot in MA's wallet when the person who sold it cashes out.

It's my personal opinion that the group of old, lucky-ass veterans who owned those rare items then sold them for ludicrous markups and cashed out, which caused a financial problem for MA.

To base withdrawals on peoples deposit, is one of the stupidest ideas i have heard in a while.

No argument here...agreed.
 

DoA

Old Alpha
Joined
Dec 3, 2015
Posts
851
Location
Romania
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Daughter of Anarchy
I don't think it's that simple, Ace. A player can acquire all sorts of items in-game, some with insane markups. Someone can buy something that has 20k PEDs markup. The seller now has over 20k PEDs on their account. Thus far, no actual money has changed hands, as far as MA is concerned.

Now, the seller decides to cash out a 300-PED gun for 15k PEDs. As this is all from MARKUP, and not actual item value, if it gets cashed out, MA takes the hit because it comes out of their pockets when someone withdraws. That Mod Merc or Imp MK2 that someone bought for 5K PEDs 10 years ago and later got sold for 5 - 10 times as much due to inflation/markup, now creates a big empty spot in MA's wallet when the person who sold it cashes out.

It's my personal opinion that the group of old, lucky-ass veterans who owned those rare items then sold them for ludicrous markups and cashed out, which caused a financial problem for MA.

I know many don't agree with that, and that probably MA is not doing so, but here's the way I see things:

- Money that are deposited don't represent MA's income or profit; at this point they are just depository of said money (just like in the moment when we make a deposit to a bank the bank doesn't own those money or consider them income or profit, or, if you prefer, just like a casino doesn't count money that we exchange into chips as income or profit) for the simple reason that we can at any moment withdraw them back (or cash out our bank account or our casino chips)

- In a ideal world, MA should have all PEDs existing in circulation (items included, at TT value too), in a bank account, being able though to cover and the case where everyone in game would decide to withdraw everything (and by having them in a bank account they would even get some interest on them, which would be pure profit, since, unlike a bank, they don't pay interest to their depositors)

- This way money could change hands millions of times, at any or no MU, and MA shouldn't care less... since the total monetary mass would remain equal and it would be backed up by money in the bank, it shouldn't affect them if those money are in the hands of Player A or Player B

- Then people would go hunt / mine / craft, MA would take their cut (because returns < spendings for total players), the total monetary mass would go down, and MA could transfer out of the deposits account the money they earned into their own account and only now count them as income

This way they wouldn't be affected in any way by deposits, withdraws or anything else, except amount of cycled money... because, since we can't just create TT value out of thin air, all withdrawn money were deposited by someone else before and they should be backed up by money in "deposits guarantee" account anyway.

That would be FAIR.
 
Last edited:
Top