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Question: Auction Fee Clarification

sachi.mk2

sachi.mk2

Old Alpha
Joined
Feb 13, 2013
Posts
883
In 2022 the Annual report and Group accounts for MindArk PE AB (publ) appears to state the following (translated):

Revenue has been recorded at the fair value of what has been received or will be received and is reported to the extent that it is probable that the economic benefits will flow to the company and the revenue can be calculated reliably. Revenue arises primarily when users (customers) use their previously deposited funds. Revenue is generated from consumption/wear and tear of items, direct sales (of starter packs and certain other items that users cannot sell back to the company), auction fees (when items are sold between users) and exchange fees in connection with deposits/withdrawals to/from Entropia Universe. Source: https://spotlightstockmarket.com/media/otmpl3eo/mindark-aar-2022.pdf
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When the auction was launched it had a standard fee of 1ped for listing and no sales comission. It was changed in Version 8.7 to the current system.

fresco said:
Entropia Universe Version Update 8.7 01 Nov 2006

The auction fee has been modified to a base fee of 0.5 PED plus a regressive markup commission beginning at 5%. Please view the updated Auction section of the Participants Guide for more detailed information.
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The change from a set 1ped fee and no commission for sales was a considerable increase for the playerbase, who questioned Mindark about where the extra revenue would go. Marco, a Mindark employee, posted the following in response:

No, MindArks revenue stream is from decay. So it is not an urban legend. All other areas (auction fee, ammo, etc) is cycled back into the economy. Source: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-ur-loosing-badly-not-whiny.6492/#post-108682
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It would be nice to have some clarification about the auction fee revenue, does it still get cycled back into the economy, or does it now 'flow to the company'. I don't ever remember Mindark providing an official update to what Marco stated in 2006.
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Update: Svarog provided the answer:
Svarog said:
Whatever Marco said 20 years ago has lost actuality a long time ago. According to Mindark's AMA 2019, tiering costs, Mission Galactica, auction fees contribute to CLD revenue (i.e. they go into MA's revenue and then shared with CLDs holders).
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sachi.mk2 said:
In 2022 the Annual report and Group accounts for MindArk PE AB (publ) appears to state the following (translated):



Source: https://spotlightstockmarket.com/media/otmpl3eo/mindark-aar-2022.pdf

When the auction was launched it had a standard fee of 1ped for listing and sales. It was changed in Version 8.7 to the current system.



The change from a set 1ped fee was a considerable increase for the playerbase, who questioned Mindark about where the extra revenue would go.

Marco, a Mindark employee, posted the following in response:



Source: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...-ur-loosing-badly-not-whiny.6492/#post-108682

It would be nice to have some clarification about the auction fee revenue, does it still get cycled back into the economy, or does it now 'flow to the company'. I don't ever remember Mindark providing an official update to what Marco stated in 2006.
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I think the problem when revenue is mentioned is that it isn't always so clear if it is the revenue model,
revenue stream or actual booked revenue people or MA refer to.
 
The affiliate site said something very different... it's in wayback machine somewhere
 
mastermesh said:
The affiliate site said something very different... it's in wayback machine somewhere
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Interesting, I assume it is this website: http://www.planetcalypso.eu/

Another source of income are fees and commissions attached to the in-game auction and player's shops. Every sale on the auction and shops produces a sales commission that also gets shared 50:50 between Mindark and the Planet Partner.
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How does it work ? | Planet Calypso Affiliate-Programm

web.archive.org web.archive.org
 
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Just a tangential note, but you also quoted a bit that says MA's revenue comes from decay. That's some pretty old info and definitely out of date since decay at least from hunting and most parts of mining factor into TT returns. I only mention it because some people still mention decay as something entirely lost when that isn't accurate anymore.

There are some aspects of decay like mining excavators, etc. that don't directly affect loot, but may feed back in to the loot pool or into MA's pockets. That kind of thing is probably probably more up in the air, but I'd be cautious about using very old statements about decay broadly across professions.
 
Doesn't seem all that ambiguous to me. Why would they refer to it as revenue if it was immediately flowing back to the players/loot pool?

Marcos post was 20 years ago...
My question is when did they make this change?
 
To me it doesn't really matter.
I have two things I follow when it comes to EU:

1. "Never depo more than you can lose".
2. "My RL value I had is gone as soon the depo is done".
I have after all payed for a service or product, and I don't expect to have a RL value left,
I don't have any value left buying a beer or a hot dog, so why expect any after I recieved PEDs? ;)

I guess I follow MAs description of EU quite well:
"Användarna engageras inte endast av traditionell datorspelsunderhållning utan också av att potentiellt kunna
tjäna pengar genom intäktsgenererande aktiviteter."
******
"Users are engaged not only by traditional computer game entertainment but also by the potential to
earn money through revenue-generating activities."

With the emphesis on potential, not necessarly something done all the time. :D
 
If you search loot 2.o comments by MA some answers are likely there but probably more questions
 
kingofaces said:
I forget when tiering changed, but that would make sense in the old system where you lost most of the items. Now with shrapnel returned, I don’t think MA would be able to make anything from tiering.
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Every little helps. Note that Evey named just 3 sources and Dennis confirmed on all of them, but there are certainly much, much more kinds of tt losses that now go straight to MA's revenue.
 
Svarog said:
Every little helps. Note that Evey named just 3 sources and Dennis confirmed on all of them, but there are certainly much, much more kinds of tt losses that now go straight to MA's revenue.
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There is the possibility that Marco was incorrect from the getgo and auction fee always went to MA. Let's assume he was correct however, have you come across any information that states when the fees changed from going to the economy to directly to Mindark? I'm intrigued when it occurred.
 
sachi.mk2 said:
There is the possibility that Marco was incorrect from the getgo and auction fee always went to MA. Let's assume he was correct however, have you come across any information that states when the fees changed from going to the economy to directly to Mindark? I'm intrigued when it occurred.
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Haven't seen any direct information, but they changed the auction system to progressive rate fees in VU 8.7 (Nov 1, 2006), a year after the Marco's statement. I don't see a point of the change if they weren't planning to dip into it.
 
Svarog said:
Haven't seen any direct information, but they changed the auction system to progressive rate fees in VU 8.7 (Nov 1, 2006), a year after the Marco's statement. I don't see a point of the change if they weren't planning to dip into it.
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The only other reason I can think for the change -- aside from planning to dip into it -- was the Shopping Malls were still not built? They were planned and they needed a reason for people to invest in the shops. The 1ped auction fee was a stumbling block to a lucrative mall sale.
 
Joat said:
I don't have any value left buying a beer or a hot dog, so why expect any after I recieved PEDs? ;)
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200.webp
 
sachi.mk2 said:
The only other reason I can think for the change -- aside from planning to dip into it -- was the Shopping Malls were still not built? They were planned and they needed a reason for people to invest in the shops. The 1ped auction fee was a stumbling block to a lucrative mall sale.
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Malls were created a month later, so that's a possibility indeed.

Was there really a selling fee of 1 ped or any? I started in 2006 right before this change, so have no memory of how auction worked, but the archived auction guide from the pre-change doesn't mention any selling fees, and specifically the need to accept them when placing an item on auction, like the next version. It does mention a 1 ped/day fee for orders, just like today, but that's it.
 
The Great Adventurer said:
Because beer and hot dog salesman don't advertise them as "investing".
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Yeah but doesn't change much still same "rule". Imo the reason why they make it a bit vague are more for
the fragile minded people who can't accept they don't have any RL value left as soon as depo is done.
 
Svarog said:
Malls were created a month later, so that's a possibility indeed.

Was there really a selling fee of 1 ped or any? I started in 2006 right before this change, so have no memory of how auction worked, but the archived auction guide from the pre-change doesn't mention any selling fees, and specifically the need to accept them when placing an item on auction, like the next version. It does mention a 1 ped/day fee for orders, just like today, but that's it.
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It was a set 1ped fee for any listing and no commission on sales, so very cheap.

The increased cost was huge and obviously created alot of discontent, hence Marco having to calm tempers by claiming the increase cost came back to the economy (players).
 
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