Question: Average Markup used in Loot Algorithm?

Power

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Do you think the algorithm includes Average Markup, be it day, week, month, year or decade?

Do you have recent evidence for or against this?
 

Alina

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My theory : everything is related with the turnover. Based on turnover you loot items, esi etc. but i have a feeling dpp/eff both count here. Lets give a stupid exemple with imk2 lets say u need to cycle 25000 ped for 10 ped esi, for a L gun with 60 eff with be 29000 ( as i said those numbers are not real just an exemple how i imagine the system).

About your question > no .
 
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Msturlese

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markup is not computed in Loot engine, just TT
first thing is "if you use a (L) item you loose MU contribution
second thing is you receive loot in term of TT averaging 96 to 98%.... MU is your way to go over ammo (not guaranteed)
there are many statement from MA on this topic you can find them on forum
 

Ferial

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Do you think the algorithm includes Average Markup, be it day, week, month, year or decade?

Do you have recent evidence for or against this?
The loot system never accounts for markup. Not on markup spent on things like enhancers or limited weapons, nor on markup gained from loot such as oils, items and ESI etc, markup values are just transactions between players. It is always TT in vs TT out.

That´s all.
 

Evey

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That´s all.
Was thinking of this quote before I opened the thread...

"that proves nothing"
"efficiency is just a number"
"eco smecko"
"doesn't matter, it's gonna die in 6 months, because random game X gonna come alpha"
and my favorite: "but do you really believe believe what they say?" - and they keep playing every day, or just logging in every day, or checking posting nonsense....
 

Power

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Nothing has been tweaked in 4 years since that post was made?
 

Katie Chalmers

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Are skills considered part of the loot algorithm?
I don’t think so. When doing turret testing any skill gains made no difference to shrapnel return.
And since it doesn’t cost Mindark anything to give us those skills I assume it’s kept out of the algorithm.
 

unufain8

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Im preety sure MU is calculated in loot algorythm.
 

RobBuona

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Imagine the task of adding thousands of items' MU into the loot algorithm all day, every day. What could go wrong?
 

B-K

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Im preety sure MU is calculated in loot algorythm.
If it was we would not have so many people complaining about 50% returns ;)
 

unufain8

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Explain how on average you get 4 peds tt shrapnell and on some you get 1 x tier component that cost same 4 peds, the exact sum with MU?
 
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Msturlese

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you are confusing cause with effect
MU is generated by the request by crafters to get their loss back in crafting enhancers
as an example my enhancer crafting averages over 20.000 click at 208%
that includes about 150% MU on Pyrite, 110% on output amlifiers and 42% success in crafting
if i sell under 208% i am average loosing so i ask 220.. if no one buy i ask 210.. lower i rpefer to use my enhancers.
same for every craft....
crafters use ORE ENM and OILS (amoung orhers)
look last days, many miners are not mining for low markup ores, so lysterium rose and iron rose,
and due to MA orders also basioc leather extractors rose in mu
you are perceiving the effect and naming it the cause. sorry. try to change reasining backward
and you see..
like per (L) weapons dropped... a 108% ISIS is same as a 115% armatrix so it is is under 108 ppl buy isis otherwise buy armatrix (personal taste apart)
(UL items follow different logics)
 

unufain8

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you are confusing cause with effect
MU is generated by the request by crafters to get their loss back in crafting enhancers
as an example my enhancer crafting averages over 20.000 click at 208%
that includes about 150% MU on Pyrite, 110% on output amlifiers and 42% success in crafting
if i sell under 208% i am average loosing so i ask 220.. if no one buy i ask 210.. lower i rpefer to use my enhancers.
same for every craft....
crafters use ORE ENM and OILS (amoung orhers)
look last days, many miners are not mining for low markup ores, so lysterium rose and iron rose,
and due to MA orders also basioc leather extractors rose in mu
you are perceiving the effect and naming it the cause. sorry. try to change reasining backward
and you see..
like per (L) weapons dropped... a 108% ISIS is same as a 115% armatrix so it is is under 108 ppl buy isis otherwise buy armatrix (personal taste apart)
(UL items follow different logics)
I am sorry i wrote enhancer instead of Tier comp, my bad.
 

Msturlese

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In the case of Tier comp i think it is your perception of PED CARD TOTAL vs. TT Return
You are (as we all do) LOOSING at least 2% in every shot
when you get a tier comp you accout it not as 0.50 ped but 4 ped due to MU
really you are loosing the forecast amount (if you are lucky, many loose more)
so i think its really a coincidence, or your ability to find a monster that allow you to get back the 100% of decay. (or more hopefully)
 

raulpon

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player weight is calculated in TT returns, I'm at 99.2kg or so, doing pretty good
 

Deemer

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Do you think the algorithm includes Average Markup, be it day, week, month, year or decade?

Do you have recent evidence for or against this?

The opposite is true.
Each item has a quota to drop that comes at certain loss, so it creates this illusion. Of course, this is not always true, because it depends on the current condition of the mob you hunt and the dynamic rate in this area.
 

Power

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Has it been considered that drop rates (part of loot algo) use avg markup as part of the calculation?
 

Msturlese

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it is excluded by ALL MA official statements
who consider MU is in fact supporting a conspiration theory.

loot algorithm is TT in ----> TT out (and it is less than 100%
the MU if any accounts to making more peds than decay and ammo
 

Power

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it is excluded by ALL MA official statements
who consider MU is in fact supporting a conspiration theory.

loot algorithm is TT in ----> TT out (and it is less than 100%
the MU if any accounts to making more peds than decay and ammo

I'm not referring to TT in vs TT out.

I'm referring to the balance drop rate of loot.
 

Deemer

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Has it been considered that drop rates (part of loot algo) use avg markup as part of the calculation?

I don't think there are any percentages associated with chance. Everything is tried to values, exceptions are made by some semi-rare objects and those with a higher rarity of falling. It seems that they have an algorithm for determining the time which, for certain elements is random, but not for all.

For example, there are semi-rare items that have a specific time spawn, and if you find this item, you will not find another one for a certain period of time.

There is similarly confusing behavior with other semi-rare items, where 50/50 you can take 2 items. One is again for a certain time, and the other falls completely at random.

I only see a% increase in MU prey at a higher dynamic rate, but this does not impact so drastically on the rare type.

Ie the chances decrease and increase compared to the dynamic percentage. Proportionately with smaller losses, although at a higher dynamic rate the chance remains the same. While at the lower dynamic rate the chance is reduced =)

Spending a larger amount of ped at an increased rate increases the chances, otherwise there is no change.
Spending more ped at a low rate increases the loss of precarious at contents in the loot.
 

Aloisius

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I'm sure they manipulate the number of drops which in turn causes the MU to fluctuate. So, I can see this being the cause of your concern. MA has changed drop rates lots. And they don't seem to put much effort into managing out-of-control MU on certain items. This is the game though and MA has been able to keep most of the EU economy engine secret for all this time. I think they change it everytime more than a few figure it out. Eventually they will run out of tricks though, just like JPM in RL.
 

Deemer

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I'm sure they manipulate the number of drops which in turn causes the MU to fluctuate. So, I can see this being the cause of your concern. MA has changed drop rates lots. And they don't seem to put much effort into managing out-of-control MU on certain items. This is the game though and MA has been able to keep most of the EU economy engine secret for all this time. I think they change it everytime more than a few figure it out. Eventually they will run out of tricks though, just like JPM in RL.

Everything is on time in this game.
All they changed was to increase the time of certain items * 2, which de facto reduced their volume in active hunters.
 

PreyNaika

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Actually the game does nothing wrong

The thing is : with the current loot table on low to mid range you are not able to do a profit

Because there is not much demand

On Higher lvls with Higher gear and biger ped card you are able to gain mu

101% animal oil wont give you a profit

Hunt some robots instead where common drops got 110% mu


It is a very hard game and you need to depo atleast 14.000 ped for gear to see a diference

But untill you hit that point you most likely burn 40.000 ped for skilling and mistakes


Example rl

Go try sell dirt to someone
Noone need dirt since theyr able to collect it by theyr self.

Something else is the return rate that is indeet bs
You cant promisse a avarge 92 98 % range if the big majority geht's less then this

Assuming your return is 92% and you runn with unlimited gear you need 108.1 to see profit and this is not possible for 95% of our playerbase
And this is Frustration not funn


In my opinion i am not able to enjoy the game because i have to do a lot of math and way to much thinking/comparing etc

I do this in rl already to turn profit and i dont see the funn aspect of a game if i need to do this here

For some people entropia is funn for some others its frustration

There are a lot of possibilitys to enable enteopia to grow and build up a floating economy example a monthly fee some crafting improvements npcs who buy your useless stuff and a Real money auction house... basicly a mix of wow and diablo 3

Just delete the Option to buy peds from webshop/ depo

Make peds work like gold

Focus on profit from subscription and Real money auction where players are able to sell gold/peds, stackables and items via paypall Transaktions

Make gold / peds consumed in crafting


This way players and mindark profit

I dont see any Problem with this model since the game is already pay to Win
 

Ferial

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Example rl

Go try sell dirt to someone
Noone need dirt since theyr able to collect it by theyr self.

I recently re-landscaped my garden. I paid quite a lot for the dirt I needed to do that (despite going through a lot of vendors trying to find the best deal for the particular type of dirt I needed)

I do like the example though, because it is an almost perfect example of what you need to do in this game.

You need to provide good deals for what people need, when they need it. When noone needs dirt, don't sell dirt.

In order to be able to provide good deals you need skills and gear. In order to provide what people want when they want it you need knowledge and/or bankroll.
 
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