Be fair, buy Sweat for a good price

[reez]

Hello,

first of all I know without MF there is not a lot demand.

On the other hand sweating is the way for newbies to learn more about the game and get hooked to it. Most people, even depositors start out sweating. It allows payers to get some money so they can buy a weapon or some mining stuff, so they can actually try the game.

I'm writing this because it is sad to see, how new players get bored of the game, because they sweat all day and they have to sell there sweat below 5PEDs per 1000 sweat.

The game needs new players. They are the ones, who really invest because in the beginning you usually just blindly try out stuff.

No, this is no whining from my side. I am buying sweat. I even ask new players how much they want and if it is below 5PED per 1000, I do give them this minimum and tell them to not sell their hard earned sweat a low price that low.

An other reason for writing this is that everyone is that it doesn't make a real difference to you, if you don't resell huge loads of sweat. I understand that in EU everyone cares about every percent, but please recalculate and think what a potential new customer of your stuff is worth to you.

A minimum price of sweat doesn't hurt you, but allows a new player to buy more ammo, probes or whatever. If the player chooses a real profession other stuff will get less expensive because there is more stuff on the market, so in reality the only thing that changes is that there are more players and you have a good feeling, because you are helping new players and that's a cheap relaxing way of enjoying the game.

The price will most likely be much higher with the mindforce update anyway, so even if you don't buy it too cheap it's currently very cheap. But new players could leave until then, if you don't take care they get some PEDs for starting out.

Oh, if you really care so much for the price: Go sweating and you'll get the stuff for free

 

[Norbert]

Why don't you submit a support ticket and get MA/FPC to buy it?

I agree that demand is down atm, but all the more reason to stockpile it if the price bothers people. Fact is we need mindforce to be re-introduced to lift demand for ME, and hopefully this will lift sweat value again.





,

 

[CeePee]

I agree the game needs new players and sweating is pretty much the first thing they'll ever do. Some people deposit to skip the sweating part, some quit because it's too slow and some keep sweating and selling that sweat.

Unless the Mind essence stays at its current level or goes higher, what is your personal opinion of the other side of ME?

By keeping Vibrant Sweat at a given .5 rate it means Force Nexus price must fall in order to keep ME selling profitable. Currently ME seems to be around 170-180% rate and Force nexus is at ~115%. Nexus price has dropped from a whopping 140% to what it is now whereas Sweat price has stayed the same.

Sure it was possible to get a lucky buyer for .55 or .6 before but .5 was more common even then.

So my question is, what about miners?

 

[TontonX]

good luck.

Back in time we were complaining when it was less than 8 peds for 1000...
so now when i see the 1000 sweats for 5 peds i feel really sorry for sweaters.

I am even wondering if it could go lower than that in the future...

Well perhraps with the new players arriving each year, and the price of sweat going forever down... sweating is going to die

who would want to sell 1k sweat for 3 peds in 2-3 years ?...

might never happen though... but with each passing year i only saw the sweat price heading toward one way > down.

so... again... good luck !

 

[Arch]

Hello,

first of all I know without MF there is not a lot demand.

On the other hand sweating is the way for newbies to learn more about the game and get hooked to it. Most people, even depositors start out sweating. It allows payers to get some money so they can buy a weapon or some mining stuff, so they can actually try the game.

I'm writing this because it is sad to see, how new players get bored of the game, because they sweat all day and they have to sell there sweat below 5PEDs per 1000 sweat.

The game needs new players. They are the ones, who really invest because in the beginning you usually just blindly try out stuff.

No, this is no whining from my side. I am buying sweat. I even ask new players how much they want and if it is below 5PED per 1000, I do give them this minimum and tell them to not sell their hard earned sweat a low price that low.

An other reason for writing this is that everyone is that it doesn't make a real difference to you, if you don't resell huge loads of sweat. I understand that in EU everyone cares about every percent, but please recalculate and think what a potential new customer of your stuff is worth to you.

A minimum price of sweat doesn't hurt you, but allows a new player to buy more ammo, probes or whatever. If the player chooses a real profession other stuff will get less expensive because there is more stuff on the market, so in reality the only thing that changes is that there are more players and you have a good feeling, because you are helping new players and that's a cheap relaxing way of enjoying the game.

The price will most likely be much higher with the mindforce update anyway, so even if you don't buy it too cheap it's currently very cheap. But new players could leave until then, if you don't take care they get some PEDs for starting out.

Oh, if you really care so much for the price: Go sweating and you'll get the stuff for free

Just depo $10 and get 100 ped... seriously, you don't have to be rich to depo. Higher price for sweat encourages more sweating and more supply further suppressing prices... geez... how free do you want free to be.

 

[CeePee]

good luck.

Back in time we were complaining when it was less than 8 peds for 1000...
so now when i see the 1000 sweats for 5 peds i feel really sorry for sweaters.

I am even wondering if it could go lower than that in the future...

Well perhraps with the new players arriving each year, and the price of sweat going forever down... sweating is going to die

who would want to sell 1k sweat for 3 peds in 2-3 years ?...

might never happen though... but with each passing year i only saw the sweat price heading toward one way > down.

so... again... good luck !

Sweat price is falling because ME price is falling, it's directly connected to it ^^

ME price has come down a lot and unless we get mindforce back as it was it just keeps falling more.

Sweat price will drop to 3 peds per 1k only if people drop ME price, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people want to keep the .5 per sweat

 

[py08jl]

there is no point if u tell people to buy at fair price when there are people willing to sell their sweat at a lower rate.

there are players who wants their PED now and dont want to wait for 2 weeks until someone will pay them an extra 10PEC.

its time vs income.

are u willing to get an extra 10PEC and wait for 2days until someone come and buy, or do you want you 4.9PED now?

 

[mastermesh]

I'm writing this because it is sad to see, how new players get bored of the game, because they sweat all day and they have to sell there sweat below 5PEDs per 1000 sweat.

Here's the way it works... People are sometimes willing to pay 5 peds for 1k... Because of that resellers have to buy below that level. As long as they do that, you can count on the fact that someone's buying at 5 peds per 1k, and if you have the patience to find them, you might find a buyer... The resellers have to be there or the stagnant market will be even worse... YOU SHOULD BE HAPPY THE RESELLERS ARE THERE BECAUSE IT MEANS THAT YOU HAVE A CONSTANT BUYER. It's far better to sell 10k at 40 peds then to have 10 K and no buyers at all becasue you are waiting for someone to buy at outrageous prices...

so be happy with anything you get. If you don't like the less than 5 peds per 1k, simply don't sell it to the resellers, take your time and wait til you find someone that wants to pay the 5 peds. Just be aware that it might take you a while to get to that point.

This whole mindset will help you later on, when you get to more advanced buying/selling of higher level things that cost more. Turnover is a big deal when it comes to selling things. Having constant stream of buyers and sellers is too. It's when people want outrageous prices for things that the market stagnates, and ends up where it is now in some areas of the RCE... including but not limited to a few uber items and sweat.

 

[kosmos]

So my question is, what about miners?

Good question that few people ever ask.

Another question i see no one ask is this. If sweat was on the auction what would happen to the price?

Points to blazers and novas.

Kosmos

 

[Uvas]

I will sell my sweat for whatever price I wish.

 

[Mega]

Demand is down as only TP chips work (and no other chip has worked for 9 months now).

I've seen it posted that Mindforce will soon be back (late spring / early summer I read) and I know there are people who are itching to resume skilling their heal, focus and other chips. If new chips and skills are introduced (and I think there may well be) then demand will increase and you wont have any trouble selling.

Try and be patient and happy

 

[Rusty Redrock]

If you had money it might even be a good investment to buy some sweat as it might go up in price. It will not go down so its a pretty safe investment to make a few possible ped in the near future.

 

[reez]

I think some people didn't understand that I am writing this as a sweat BUYER. I AM buying sweat for 5PED (sometimes more). The reason for doing this has been described in the first post. I want to allow new players to try out the game.

Seriously, you give away much more money for weapons, armor, ammo, whatever. In my opinion a new player should be able to try the game for free, but if he spends weeks to buy for some hunting/mining/crafting equipment he will leave pretty soon without having a chance to see much of this game. New players a potential customers for everyone. I know this, because I also started with sweating, made some money and liked the game. Now I am depositing and paying new players a fair price for sweat.

Sometimes I am also sweating for my own usage while answering questions.

And seriously. It's not like, if 10PED for 1k sweat would seriously damage the market. Compared with the force nexus price the price for sweat has nearly no influence.

Resellers are a good thing? Nice joke.
It isn't even a service. Go to Neas or Swamp Camp say you are buying Sweat for 5PED and a few seconds later you have tons of trade requests. Yeah, it really hard work to accept them.

Oh, and if some new player reads this. Yeah, I am seriously buying sweat for 5PED+ and I know some others are doing the same and yes I am profiting, so deposit and really play the game for a while and if you you'll find ways to make more money, while having actually fun. If you do not want to deposit, try your luck with finding fruits or go to parties, where you even get stuff, like weapons for free. Yes, there are nice players, but they are not always at the sweating grounds.

 

[Wed]

Be fair, play the game with your own money instead of someone elses deposits when playing for free aka other pays for u, u should be thankfull for what u get imo.

Posted via Mobile Device

 

[TheOneOmega]

I never buy/sell at .001 or lower. I feel it's a ripoff to do so at such a price because the Trade Terminal could just as easily be used.

 

[Ransom Hastings]

Fair? What's fair about the crap that MA lays on noobs to get them here? Play the game for free? Make lots of real money in a real world economy? What we get for the most part with those lines is folks that are too broke to pay the 15 usd per month for the other online games. I can't count the number of times noobs come up to me and tell me they don't know what they are doing and asking how they can make money! I don't know what MA thinks they are going to get for noobs when they advertise for freeloaders, serious gamers? I think not. Of course when serious gamers see how their money evaporates, they aren't going to stick around either. After All, Entropia is known as the most expensive free game on the internet.

 

[Rumsponge]

ahh, the mindforce update...

 

[StatikNode]

*Prepares for the flames...*

First, don't tell me to buy at a higher price. Like everyone says, Entropia is dynamic, so why shouldn't the market be? We can all tell that the sweat prices are dropping down, and that there's not much to do about it. With the amount of sweat being sold and bought everyday, one little green dot isn't going to have much of an effect. Although we might get the "One person can't do it themselves, but together we can" responses from a few fanatics, we cannot truly do very much.

Whenever I do buy sweat, it's at at least 4.75 PED's to 5 PED's. I do believe in supporting the newbies, but at the same time, I want to make their lives a bit difficult. They are getting free money, from an absolutely free service. Is that not enough of a gift? Sweating, being a free thing, drains potential money that could be used in loots. If sweaters are completely non-depositors, then they do eliminate some of the loots that other people are providing.

Also, the Entropia Universe is becoming bigger, without a doubt. There will be an expanding player base, unless MA closes down. That will mean more sweaters, but also more players who use it. The price and ratio used will still stay the same (theoretically). One thing that could have a great impact on the system would be eliminating free sweating. This could be that players had to pay a certain fee to get a sweating device, or something allowing them to sweat.

Although I do agree that sweating is a great way to learn about the game, very few people will be willing to make it a full-time profession. Kudos to the people who have accomplished as non-depositors, but there's many that haven't.

Of the many people I've spoken to about depositing, almost all of them began with sweating. And, here's a fun fact; Most of them decided to deposit, and cease sweating because it seemed funner, and a lot less time-consuming. I have yet to meet someone who decided to deposit since the PED's Earned/Time Consumed was too bad. Entropia is a game after all, not a job (contrary to what some believe). People aren't forced to sweat to make PED's as a beginner. And also, one hour of minimum-wage labor is about 55x more profitable than sweating per hour, assuming that approximately 300-400 bottles are collected.

Here's a run down:

• One person buying at a higher price does not affect the market
• Sweating is a completely free profession, no costs attached
• Sweating is a great way to learn the system, mechanics and community of the game
• Far fewer PED's earned, than a minimal deposit (which does last a month if used wisely)
• Any price higher than TT is a blessing, since it is free
• The market doesn't require sweat to function properly.

 

[3-J]

nexus and ME sets the price for sweat, these are the current calculated rates and fee's incurred while making ME:

nexus at 120% (12ped/1k)
ME at 178% (17.8ped/1k)
market fee .89pecs/1k
energy transformer decay 40pecs/1k

17.80 - 12.00 - 0.89 - 0.40 = 4.51PED for 1k of sweat

anyone buying higher than that is taking a loss, fact.

now, if nexus price would be lower...

nexus at 115% (11.5ped/1k)
ME at 178% (17.8ped/1k)
market fee .89pecs/1k
energy transformer decay 40pecs/1k

17.80 - 11.50 - 0.89 - 0.40 = 5.01PED for 1k of sweat

Now lets do that backwards to give you a clear picture:

5ped/1k sweat
12ped/1k nexus
.89 auction fee
.40 ET fee


5.00 + 12.00 + .89 + .40 = 18.29PED per 1k of ME, or 182.9%. You go right ahead and try to sell ME at 182.9%, nearly impossible

5ped/1k sweat
11.5ped/1k nexus
.89 auction fee
.40 ET fee

5.00 + 11.50 + 0.89 + 0.40 = 17.79PED per 1k of ME, or 177.9%. Which is pretty much what the price of ME is going for right now, the only problem is that nexus is NOT selling for 115%, it is going for 120%.


*this is just to break even*

now figure in the resellers profit

so don't yell at the resellers, they are just going by what make sense... right now 5ped/1k of sweat does not make sense as its nearly impossible to buy nexus for lower than 120%, and nearly impossible to sell ME for higher than 180%. sweaters do not set the prices, the supply and demand run market does.

cheers




*Note*
these figures could be slightly higher or lower if a higher amount is used at a time and a better energy transformer is used, but not by much, and ME resellers generally aren't in a position to afford such things, which is why they're reselling it in the first place

 

[reez]

Well, of course I can't force anyone to buy sweat for a higher price, that's why I am reasoning about it.

As for "they are getting stuff for free". That's complete nonsense, because they are sweating and that's a job the buyer pays for, else you wouldn't buy it and sweat for yourself.

About "taking loot away". That's also not a good argument either for many reasons. One of the reasons is that the alternative would be sweating for yourself, which wood have the same effect. If everyone would be fine with sweating for his own the price would be even smaller than the TT price, because you really could consider it as free/having no effect on the market. But sweat is an item that is virtually only worth what someone is willing to buy it and since the demand is currently very low the price is very low. In addition there are resellers, who also want to profit from it. Besides this the money from people, who only sweat usually comes back anyway, because they will "never" make enough money by selling sweat so they will really be able to withdraw it. So everything will stay inside the economy. MA has done a lot of stuff to prevent people from taking much money out of the game without investing huge amounts.

What I really want to say is that EUs economy only profits a lot from having more players. It's also good for balancing it, simply because a too small economy has tons of rough edges where there are too few people supplying or demanding. So investing in new players (and it isn't like we are talking about big amounts here) means investing into an economy every EU player depends on.

Have a look at other MMOs They all have something like a 14 day trial. The time is used by new players to see, if the like the game. After that they either get hooked and pay for the game or leave.

In EU you need money for everything, so you sweat. Maybe 5k (or even a lot more, if you are not getting bored to easy. But after 5k it does get really boring). You can get your equipment and ammo, probes or bombs. To get a player "hooked" I guess two things must happen. He has to find the right job and a minimum amount of success. With every job can try and every shot he can make it gets more likely to become a regular player and therefore a customer of you. And since you are playing longer than the new player, have higher skills and more experience you will make profit by offering your stuff and/or buying stuff from him.

Since there is no MF the price is already low, so why do you need it to be even lower and also loose potential customers. Paying a better price also allows you to get your sweat faster. I tried it and I was serious when I wrote that a few PECs more allow you to get virtually any amount of sweat in a few minutes. I guess when you compare it with auctions the time is worth paying a tiny bit more money. And if it is a player, which is only sweating. Who cares? He will most likely leave and the money goes to MA, the player becomes your friend because you are the only fair guy and he will maybe give something back or at least not shoot you when you meet him in oil rig

I know, some people will try to get sweat as cheap as possible and try to get 1k sweat for one or two PECs lower, but getting sweat for the lowest price is as boring as spending your time sweating. I don't really care for these, people if they want it like this, but I hope I gave the others a different perspective.

The game is really more enjoyable, if you have really thankful people, who want to be your friends and you can how they become "mature" players and good friends. In my opinion it's better to spend it like this, than buying one more probe finding nothing or killing a mob without loot

But I guess it's not really worth to discuss is, cause the ME and the Sweat price will be growing soon, because the next bigger update should bring MF back. So sweaters should wait a bit and people, who like to try it should by ME, while it's cheap (and it's very cheap now). I wonder how many people are buying ME these days just to sell it for a high price when the update comes out.

 

[Arch]

Be fair, play the game with your own money instead of someone elses deposits when playing for free aka other pays for u, u should be thankfull for what u get imo.

Posted via Mobile Device

..... touche

 

[CycoKick]

Hmm remember whent they used to whine 20 ped per 1k was a BS low price and it should be back at 30 xD


Sweat threads come and go, I do tend to buy for a lot more then the price as I still pay a pec a bottle and that works for me..

 

[Aura Lily]

I usually just buy what I need and typically pay more than the asking price if the person selling it is nice.

I also role play a semi-friendly Umbranoid named Chlorene at the Sweat Camp that trades Melchi Crystals for sweat. Sorta freaks out some of the new players. The exchange has more than the current market value in the crystals than the sweat. I usually start out with 125 blue crystals for 1k sweat and go up from there. Its a fun diversion for me and some of the n00bs take it pretty well too

slow umanz make guud sweats

 

[kcjeeper]

As has been said, the socialist sweat-buying threads come and go. If the OP thinks that the price should be higher then he should determine his arbitrary price and stick with it. ANY price determined by a player to be "fair" is arbitrary and not a true reflection of any empirical cost.

Suggestion: Let the market determine what is "fair" and get on with playing the game. Or.....Corner the market and set the "fair" price yourself....others have tried and failed miserably but I hope the OP gives it a shot.

 

[Nobleone]

Ahhhh the price of sweat thread...

 

[LeWolf86]

Hello,

first of all I know without MF there is not a lot demand.

On the other hand sweating is the way for newbies to learn more about the game and get hooked to it. Most people, even depositors start out sweating. It allows payers to get some money so they can buy a weapon or some mining stuff, so they can actually try the game.

I'm writing this because it is sad to see, how new players get bored of the game, because they sweat all day and they have to sell there sweat below 5PEDs per 1000 sweat.

The game needs new players. They are the ones, who really invest because in the beginning you usually just blindly try out stuff.

No, this is no whining from my side. I am buying sweat. I even ask new players how much they want and if it is below 5PED per 1000, I do give them this minimum and tell them to not sell their hard earned sweat a low price that low.

An other reason for writing this is that everyone is that it doesn't make a real difference to you, if you don't resell huge loads of sweat. I understand that in EU everyone cares about every percent, but please recalculate and think what a potential new customer of your stuff is worth to you.

A minimum price of sweat doesn't hurt you, but allows a new player to buy more ammo, probes or whatever. If the player chooses a real profession other stuff will get less expensive because there is more stuff on the market, so in reality the only thing that changes is that there are more players and you have a good feeling, because you are helping new players and that's a cheap relaxing way of enjoying the game.

The price will most likely be much higher with the mindforce update anyway, so even if you don't buy it too cheap it's currently very cheap. But new players could leave until then, if you don't take care they get some PEDs for starting out.

Oh, if you really care so much for the price: Go sweating and you'll get the stuff for free

LEONIDUS BE REASONABLE!!!!!!!!!!


Buy my stuff @ my price also then....

Sweat is like any other product in the game.... demand + supply will determine its value.... I wont go into details just economics 101.... I do support sweat buyers when I buy sweat.... because they get support from players buying from them... not my fault if they dont want to sell at my requested price... thats their problem not mine.

PS: Stop buying at 5ped as a "handicap" to sweaters.... dont build their false sense of market... the fact is sweat is widely available and not in demand... therefore they need to adapt... and adjust their prices... telling them to stay with a "mob set" price is just dumb...

If you want to support noobs, pay what the market value is... and then either donate some PED to either a noob event people run... or after buying 6k sweat at say 4.5... buy an opallo for one random person....

 

[Buck Wyld]

soooooooooooooooo bored of this discusion only been here almost 3 yrs and what this is the 10,ooo post about this topic


market is what the market makes it get used to it

 

[Few Scars]

Just been to sweat camp, buying from the sweaters at 5Ped per 1000. Bought about 100Ped worth in 5 mins
Support the sweaters!

 

[Harmony.]

Just been to sweat camp, buying from the sweaters at 5Ped per 1000. Bought about 100Ped worth in 5 mins
Support the sweaters!

Not to start a debate about the price of sweat in this thread, but didn't you buy about 80ped worth in 5 mins?

 

[reez]

If you want to support noobs, pay what the market value is... and then either donate some PED to either a noob event people run... or after buying 6k sweat at say 4.5... buy an opallo for one random person....

An other fine idea!


(to others)
Some people don't seem to get what I want. I don't want to make the newbies rich. I want an economy which is able to grow and therefore one has to attract new players. I mean it is common sense, that you don't blindly deposit without trying to hunt, mine or maybe craft (but crafting is a bit expensive at the beginning anyway and pretty boring). As a sweat buyer (and non reseller ) I am not interested into having a high sweat price decoupled from the real market. Everyone here keeps talking about economy, but don't even seem to understand how EUs economy works. It isn't the same as the real life. EUs economy does depend on new players to join the game or else the whole thing doesn't work. More players mean a more vital economy. Everyone keeps whining, about all the prices going down, but don't seem to understand that the system needs new players to work. And no, it's not only about the low-price and newbie stuff, if you really think like that you have no idea about how economy works at all.

I don't want newbies to sell newbies to buy stuff above the market value, but be sure nobody exploits missing knowledge of new players. An other reason for new players to sell sweat at low prices is because they want to try them game now.

It is all about giving new players a nice first experience, instead of driving them away by having them gathering sweat.

Of course there are more ways than buying at a fair (meaning AT the market value and not below) prices. But a new player has a quiet hard time. Sweating, getting to know the game, making long TP runs, etc.

So the actual suggestion about sweat is: If you need it buy it yourself for YOUR price instead of buying it from reseller. Because this drives new players away and damages the economy.

To make it short: With fair I mean the price it is worth on the market (which currently is somewhere around 5PED) and nothing more!

Maybe I should have made this clear, but I thought since I wrote "Be fair, buy Sweat for a good price" and not "Buy sweat above the market price" this would be clear.

New players simply don't know about the current price, so if someone offers half of the market price they believe this is the market price. A lower market price of sweat means you don't get that much for mind essence, which can also have an influence on Force Nexus (there is even a special word for this in economy, but I can't remember it), which can have an influence on miners and from there it goes to crafters and other stuff. Please don't say I don't know how economy works, cause I do. And don't forget that a RCE means it's based on real cash and not that works exactly the same as a real world economy. The reason is that there is nothing like food that you need all the time, there is no currency market, because the relation to USD is fixed, you can easily quit if you want and so on. It is also not like you can depend on new people coming that's why we should care that they DO come, stay and deposit. I know the sweat stuff is only one tiny part, but if you are talking about economy have a look at the whole thing.