Become a citizen of Planet Calypso!

[danimal01]

Well they did just fine.. that was 2001.. its 10 years later now, still going strong.

If they are still going "strong" why did they have to sell to FPC? Then to SEE? Now to the players? ... Just some food for thought, perhaps they are in trouble and are afraid to admit it

~Danimal

 

[GandalfSzary]

Is there an info when they will start to pay the share holders or it is still unknown?

 

[danimal01]

Is there an info when they will start to pay the share holders or it is still unknown?

I thought it was posted on the landing page of the client loader that it would be weekly?

~Danimal

 

[K-Max]

Exactly how is this different from the stock market? If a company tanks, files for bankruptcy, etc owners of the stock dont get paid a minimum TT value. They get paid nothing. Anyone that owned stock in AMBAC can tell you that.

Legal rights and protections only extend to consumer fraud, not corporate fiscal meltdown.

You are really close to correct. I've owned stock in a company that tanked. You still have chance of getting something if the company tanks, when they liquidate all the assets they take out whatever amount to cover the debt and the rest will get payed to any share holders, if debt is more then assets yes your stock them is worthless. For instance my stock I had I got .99 USD per share I owned after they were liquidated, took 6 months to process. So there is a chance might be very small chance but there is one...

 

[Joat]

Is there an info when they will start to pay the share holders or it is still unknown?

"The success and profitability of the planet will determine the revenue received as a land lot deed holder. If Calypso becomes more popular, the ROI will be higher; similarly, if the popularity of Calypso decreases, the ROI would also decrease. First revenue payouts are planned for the beginning of December 2011."

 

[millstreet2]

Is there an info when they will start to pay the share holders or it is still unknown?

December 2011

 

[GandalfSzary]

"The success and profitability of the planet will determine the revenue received as a land lot deed holder. If Calypso becomes more popular, the ROI will be higher; similarly, if the popularity of Calypso decreases, the ROI would also decrease. First revenue payouts are planned for the beginning of December 2011."

Thank you somehow i missed that info

 

[AxeMurderer]

is there end date for this or until all deeds are sold

 

[ermik]

If they are still going "strong" why did they have to sell to FPC? Then to SEE? Now to the players? ... Just some food for thought, perhaps they are in trouble and are afraid to admit it

~Danimal

most likely did they plan the budget based on the SEE deal to come through.

since it didnt this was their way of solving the need of fresh capital.

when you buy a ml35 you take the same risk as if you were buying 12 land lot deeds, why are people so nervous all of a sudden.

cheers

ermik

 

[millstreet2]

is there end date for this or until all deeds are sold

until all deeds are sold.

James (broker) was answering a question in town today, and said vice versely that if they all dont sell, you still get 1/60k of the share, not 1/x amount that sells. But I highly doubt that will happen. Won't be a month before these are gone once bank transfers hit.

 

[Usurper]

Running around on Calypso will take on a whole new shape.


*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land

 

[K-Max]

Running around on Calypso will take on a whole new shape.


*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land
*bing!* You have entered a participant owned land
*bing!* You have left a participant owned land

ROFL!!! to true.... I already hate those messages... If that happens I'll never go there, they are as annoying as "fail" messages LOL....

 

[Caramon]

This new setup will have some interesting and hard to predict longterm effects on MA revenue and ingame economy:

From now on 25% of all Calypso deposits will be cycled back directly to the user community.
That means that the current activity level will be supported with only 75% of the deposits we do today.

That in turns mean that MA platform and the calypso development would get only 75% of the current revenue, if nothing else changes.

It would be interesting to know what previosly happened to that 25% of the deposits that now goes to players, were they all used for calypso development or were they taken out of the company as profit?

Hopefully all those peds cycled back into the economy will give a boost to activity so revenue creating decay increases.

I am surprised so much of the total revenue was offered to players. I hope this does not mean Calypso development will suffer. Keep in mind that MA and Calypso are deep in the red. Can they really afford losing 25% of revenue like this?

All in all I think this is a brilliant concept. It is really cutting edge ideas in the MMO world. I dont know any game that tried something similar. Seems all that whined that more peds should be cycled back to players now have their wish come through, if they invest enough...

 

[Svarog]

what they are doing is not really technically legal anyways

How is it less legal than any other activity in the game?

You bought 1000ped ammo and went hunting. You spent some of ammo to kill a mob and - boom! - there is a loot window with some stuff.... or no loot. You don't ask if the loot worth the spent money, you may not be happy but still consider it's a normal process. No loot? No problem, maybe next time.

Now you bought this deed for 1000ped and in a week - boom! - there is a loot window with some peds in it. Or nothing. No problem, maybe next week. Just like that - you don't ask for financial stats or documents, you simply trust MA and wait what the loot window will bring.

Everything falls into place as soon as you stop thinking of it as an "investment" but rather as just another ingame activity. It's a passive hunting with postponed loot!

 

[remontoire]

How is it less legal than any other activity in the game?

The straight and simple answer is that it may not be legal because they are promising a payment that is derived from the operations of a real world company.

 

[mastermesh]

The straight and simple answer is that it may not be legal because they are promising a payment that is derived from the operations of a real world company.

This is a land deed.
The owner of this deed is entitled to a part of the gross revenue generated for planet Calypso.
Total amount of deeds available are 60000, the revenue will be split evenly between all deeds.
The owner will also, according to the information presented on www.entropiauniverse.com, get access to a land ownership system and be part of a political system.
For more details please visit
www.entropiauniverse.com

Technically they are promising the payments to the 'owner' and the eula does not allow anyone to own anything... so they are really just making a promise to pay an avatar, which they completely own. Lawyers might look at it differently. As mentioned previously, they changed other estate deeds in the past to remove the implication of ownership, so may just be a matter of time before that happens with these too. Kim, Jan, or whoever just has to change the string that has the item info on it...

 

[Sircus]

How is it less legal than any other activity in the game?

You bought 1000ped ammo and went hunting. You spent some of ammo to kill a mob and - boom! - there is a loot window with some stuff.... or no loot. You don't ask if the loot worth the spent money, you may not be happy but still consider it's a normal process. No loot? No problem, maybe next time.

Now you bought this deed for 1000ped and in a week - boom! - there is a loot window with some peds in it. Or nothing. No problem, maybe next week. Just like that - you don't ask for financial stats or documents, you simply trust MA and wait what the loot window will bring.

Everything falls into place as soon as you stop thinking of it as an "investment" but rather as just another ingame activity. It's a passive hunting with postponed loot!

I will so quote you when I use this argument to the IRS . Less then 50.000 kr income/year from EU counted as a hobby and you dont have to pay taxes if I remember correctly. Will have to refresh myself with the relevant law.

I played with the numbers in the MA annual report for 2010. I tried to calculate how big the land owners share would have been for the year of 2010. It's a bit guesswork and assumptions so the end result of 21 % ROI is not the real fact , but at least an indication. I guess we in a month time will see the realy numbers.

7 050 253 USD Net player dep.
-1 488 341 Increase of player hold unconsumed peds
= 5 561 912 USD "Decays and fees" in all of EU.


5 005 721 Calyspo share of the revenue 90%. (could be more/less)
2 502 860 PP share 50%
1 251 430 Land holders share, 50 % of PP share

21 Land holders revenue/60 000 Land shares
ROI 20,9% (share/100 USD)

Interesting. The 27% - 30% really seems pulled from the air since they havnt shown what they are basing it on. I wonder if they are doing like Enron and using predicted income in their ROI.

Kim can you make a simple confirmation that the ROI you calculated was counted with the value of deed as 1000 peds? Would also like answer to the question on how you really calculate your gross revenue but I can wait abit longer for that.

Strange that you cant get a bankloan with the impressive ROI you promise/estimate

 

[Buck Wyld]

It's a pretty cool idea imo, already bought one maybe more in the near future but I do have some questions and issues.

Are we, the new deed holders, now in fact the new calypso planet partner?? This sounds great to me so long as calypso isn't then somehow double sold to someone else like 'see'

I also think that if land area Owners are getting a free one, I believe that shop owners should as well to compensate for all the issues we have had such as item and placement bugs, lack of city development where our shops are, general lack of ma interest in these properties besides just putting more on auction. A free share might bring lots of good will to ma from these investors and a very low cost to ma in the over all revenue generation plan


B

 

[Caramon]

I played with the numbers in the MA annual report for 2010. I tried to calculate how big the land owners share would have been for the year of 2010. It's a bit guesswork and assumptions so the end result of 21 % ROI is not the real fact , but at least an indication. I guess we in a month time will see the realy numbers.

7 050 253 USD Net player dep.
-1 488 341 Increase of player hold unconsumed peds
= 5 561 912 USD "Decays and fees" in all of EU.


5 005 721 Calyspo share of the revenue 90%. (could be more/less)
2 502 860 PP share 50%
1 251 430 Land holders share, 50 % of PP share

21 Land holders revenue/60 000 Land shares
ROI 20,9% (share/100 USD)

Interesting,

One important factor is wheter the "Increase of player hold unconsumed peds" should be substracted from "Net player deposits" or not. The real MA revenue is the "Net player deposit" and using that figure only would result in a ROI close to 27%. I agree with Sircus that a clarification would be good.

 

[Caramon]

Are we, the new deed holders, now in fact the new calypso planet partner?? This sounds great to me so long as calypso isn't then somehow double sold to someone else like 'see'
B

Definately not. Your virtual avatar is the owner of a virtual deed that will pay out virtual currency based on set rules. MA could still sell off Calypso again if they wanted.

 

[melander]

I will so quote you when I use this argument to the IRS . Less then 50.000 kr income/year from EU counted as a hobby and you dont have to pay taxes if I remember correctly. Will have to refresh myself with the relevant law.

Depends on country, in Sweden you tax 30% on both normal income and hobby but in other European countries its different.

Best regards
Zweshi

 

[Sircus]

Cant just see the reason why (Well I can guess) you dont do this the legal way with certificate/contract sent home to the users for each deed they own with the promises you made. You can still offer all the other things like LG and houses ingame. With 6 million $ you can afford postage no?

 

[Sircus]

Depends on country, in Sweden you tax 30% on both normal income and hobby but in other European countries its different.

Best regards
Zweshi

Ah, what I ment was that they dont apply the 30% tax if hobby income was less then 50k kr. Abit slurry on my part. Not 100% sure though. Could be like you wrote.

 

[melander]

Ah, what I ment was that they dont apply the 30% tax if income was less then 50k kr. Abit slurry on my part. Not 100% sure though. Could be like you wrote.

ahh, yes didn't quite understand it. Yes thats right up to 50000kr is tax free.

Best regards
Zweshi

 

[billairboy]

I am surprised so much of the total revenue was offered to players. I hope this does not mean Calypso development will suffer. Keep in mind that MA and Calypso are deep in the red. Can they really afford losing 25% of revenue like this?

That's worry me a bit too, not MA, but the development of Calypso. A planet partner like Arkadia, Cyrene or someone else will get something like 50 % of the revenue, "PP Calypso" will get only 25 % after they pay the players. So in theory they will not afford the same amount of development cost with the same amount of players on a planet. But if MA owns they planet i guess they will give them the resources they need.

One thing i was thinking about. If i understand it correctly, the planetpartner where a player starts their avatar, will always give the orginal "home planet" some income, even if they play on other planets. Will that be the case for the Land shareing income also? Will Calypso players on other planets still give the land holders on Calypso a small amount of revenue? I guess they will.

 

[SpikeBlack]

One thing i was thinking about. If i understand it correctly, the planetpartner where a player starts their avatar, will always give the orginal "home planet" some income, even if they play on other planets. Will that be the case for the Land shareing income also? Will Calypso players on other planets still give the land holders on Calypso a small amount of revenue? I guess they will.

from what I remember of the details after vu10, if you were a player in vu9 on Calypso then your decay gets split 2 ways. If you joined in or after vu10 then it's split 3 ways.

 

[billairboy]

Interesting. The 27% - 30% really seems pulled from the air since they havnt shown what they are basing it on. I wonder if they are doing like Enron and using predicted income in their ROI.

Kim can you make a simple confirmation that the ROI you calculated was counted with the value of deed as 1000 peds? Would also like answer to the question on how you really calculate your gross revenue but I can wait abit longer for that.

Strange that you cant get a bankloan with the impressive ROI you promise/estimate

I actually think their numbers are correct. Remeber that 2010 was a pretty "bad year", and 2011 have improved. Their numbers are probably based on the 2011 numbers and their estimated for the rest of the year and 2012. After that, who knows. If all players leave the planet for an other planets and we don't get new players instead, the revenue for the planet will go down.

 

[billairboy]

Interesting,

One important factor is wheter the "Increase of player hold unconsumed peds" should be substracted from "Net player deposits" or not. The real MA revenue is the "Net player deposit" and using that figure only would result in a ROI close to 27%. I agree with Sircus that a clarification would be good.

Yeah that i am unsure of, in the MA revenue it's not included/substracted. But if the planet income are based on the decay/fees on the planets, they should be.

 

[mastermesh]

Cant just see the reason why (Well I can guess) you dont do this the legal way with certificate/contract sent home to the users for each deed they own with the promises you made. You can still offer all the other things like LG and houses ingame. With 6 million $ you can afford postage no?

It's becuase you are not buying shares in a company... you are buying shares of an ad campaign in hopes that that will bring in revenue...

 

[Sircus]

It's becuase you are not buying shares in a company... you are buying shares of an ad campaign in hopes that that will bring in revenue...

Nono, didnt write shares specifically. I want a legal document that says I invested outside of the EULA. With all MA´s commitment added in small hard to read text. An external loan, not share. Whoever holds the promissory note is entitled to bla bla.