Best Gun for Beginner Hunters

[Gingko]

Hi all,

there is much debate about what would be the best gun for beginner hunters. While most people agree that the Opalo is good, it is being discussed whether with or without Amp. Also, some people claim that the Mann MPH with Amp is very good due to its high reload rate (= high skillgain, high Amp usage --> high damage per sec). So three candidates, readily accessible for any beginner with a little funds due to low TT+ markup:

1) Sollomate Opalo from TT
2) Sollomate Opalo from TT plus Amp A103 (~TT+2)
3) Mann MPH (TT+0.5) plus Amp A103 (~TT+2)

The problem is that popular charts (i.e. www.pewiki.info) can only compare the theoretical maximum damage, not taking into account the misses and criticals, i.e. actual damage.

I decided to put this (at least for myself) to rest, to know what to recommend to my disciples and other n00bs. So I wrote down the actual damage including misses and criticals. I posted my actual skills here (https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=277005#post277005).

Here is the evaluation:

1) Sollomate Opalo
Miss rate: ~ 10%
Critical hit rate: ~ 2%
Average Damage (normal hits only): 5.9
Average Damage including misses and criticals: 5.4
Cost for 1 shot (ammo & decay): 2.02
Eco (including misses & criticals): 0.37 pec / HP damage or 2.7 damage per pec
Actual Damage/sec (40 attacks/min): 3.6 HP

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

Eco is not bad, damage / sec sucks.

2) Sollomate Opalo plus Amp A103
Miss rate: ~6%
Critical hit rate: ~2.6%
Average Damage (normal hits only): 14.9
Average Damage including misses and criticals: 14.6
Cost for 1 shot (ammo & decay): 4.63 pec
Eco (including misses & criticals): 0.28 pec / HP damage or 3.5 damage per pec
Actual Damage/sec (40 attacks/min): 9.7 HP

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
Much better eco & damage / sec, the Amp 103 is clearly worth the money for purchase & repair.

3) Mann MPH plus Amp A103
Miss rate: 19% (!)
Critical hit rate: <0.7%
Average Damage (normal hits only): 10.1
Average Damage including misses and criticals: 8.1
Cost for 1 shot (ammo & decay): 3.63 pec
Eco (including misses & criticals): 0.45 pec / HP damage or 2.2 damage per pec
Actual Damage/sec (75 attacks/min): 10.1 HP

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

So the Mann gives very slightly higher damage per second than the amped Opalo... but at a horrible Eco.

So, the choice for me is clear now (and it was not in the past, I focused on Handgun see my skills). Get an Opalo from the TT and invest in the A103. The difference lies clearly in the amplifier and in the miss rate for the Handgun, which is almost double despite the better skills.

Hope this helps all hunting n00bs out there in making their choice.

BLP fans, please post your data here, I would love to make that comparison

 

[AJack10600]

Nice post... confirms my theory

 

[Squiglet]

IMHO you missed one important option the M2100 from tt with or without an amp.

This is the best starting handgun and it has a higher efficiencey than the opalo when amped (I know other factors like range armour damage etc matter). When the learning period is over that is the time to think about the mann MPH, if not even a little later when you have some skills to use it. I wouldn't suggest the MPH to any newbie, just that it is a good gun to aim to be able to use eventually.

 

[Gingko]

IMHO you missed one important option the M2100 from tt with or without an amp.

This is the best starting handgun and it has a higher efficiencey than the opalo when amped (I know other factors like range armour damage etc matter). When the learning period is over that is the time to think about the mann MPH, if not even a little later when you have some skills to use it. I wouldn't suggest the MPH to any newbie, just that it is a good gun to aim to be able to use eventually.

I will do the analysis asap... Missed that because the damage rate was too low imho... +rep for reminding me!

 

[EyeContact]

The miss rate for opalo with and without amp should be the same. Your hitability doesn't change when you amp a gun. Test 1M ammo on both with and without an amp and I bet the miss rate will be identical to 0.1%.

Otherwise nice test. Because the a10x series are so efficient, almost all guns efficiency increase when using one of these babies

 

[Solaris]

Very nice stat-work!
+rep because I love to look at these numbers

Confirmed my own theory although I cant understand the bad results with the Mann. You could try some other low-level tt-handguns too (Ewe-11 maybe) to see if stats improved...

Good job - nice info

 

[goldpython]

Nice post.

Aside from the hard numerical facts involved, I remember the last time I hunted with a Mann MPH + A103, that it gave a particular feel due to the high rate of fire. It's a combination that is just plain fun at the cost of a little ecomony and perhaps worth playing with from time to time.

 

[mrproper]

Ginko, nice analysis, may I ask how exactly did you operated the weapons?

If you use the left click in aim mode in 1st person, you can actually miss many times if you send the click event from the client to the server on lagged lines. The server refuses to shoot once in a while, but you waste the ammo and you do no damage. This also happens if you heal too fast using the click. To counter that effect, you need to either:

* drag out the health bar, wait for the mob to stop moving and click the the health bar until mob dead

* right click on the stopped mob until dead.

This is important as missed shots due to transmission timing can skew the results. It is also important that you post your skill levels in the affected areas. The most important data you need to post is your AIM and HIT ABILITY for the weapon. If they are low, it is only normal that you miss so much with the Mann, it is only working good at very high skills.

 

[Gingko]

Ginko, nice analysis, may I ask how exactly did you operated the weapons?

Sure, very valid question: By right-clicking at the stopped mob until dead. I played over a 56k modem for a long time so I am familiar with the lag effects.
Actually used all weapons on the same mob to balance data (got hit quite often doing this ).

I will post the hit abilities later, but it's maxed (10.0 / 10.0) for the Opalo and far from that for the Mann MPH. I presume that my skills linked above will somehow translate into the hit ability.

 

[aridash]

I remember the last time I hunted with a Mann MPH + A103, that it gave a particular feel due to the high rate of fire. It's a combination that is just plain fun at the cost of a little ecomony and perhaps worth playing with from time to time.

yes, its definatly a fun weapon. particulaly good for those pesky Rippersnappers.

 

[andyzammy]

i dont understand you m8. youve comaperd the opallo with the opallo+amp, and you say you miss less when ur amped. thats not because for ur amp m8, all the amp does is amplify ur dmg. this is due to ur skills. the skills mainly affect hit ability and crit hit. everything else skills affect are debatable. i dont know where ur discussion about

While most people agree that the Opalo is good, it is being discussed whether with or without Amp.

eco-wise, i would have thought this obvious. i dont understand how people think it more eco unamped.

also, ur comaring opallos with mann mph's. this is wrong to do. ok, if you dont really care at all which type of gun you wanna hunt with, thats fine. but opals is a rifle, and mph is pistol. different skills. by the sound of the way you compared opalo and opalo amped, this whole comparison of urs is unaccurate. if uve just used ur main active avi to do the lot, and you havent made a new one for each weapon, ur way out for everything. this is becaus ur rifle skills are different to your pistol skills

sorry if im totally wrong here and this post is complete BS, i just skimmed through ur first post and i didnt bother to read any others... ignore this if its wrong (but if it is wrong, say so), and ill shut up.

gl
zammy

 

[Eron TheCaptain]

IMHO you missed one important option the M2100 from tt with or without an amp.

This is the best starting handgun and it has a higher efficiencey than the opalo when amped (I know other factors like range armour damage etc matter). When the learning period is over that is the time to think about the mann MPH, if not even a little later when you have some skills to use it. I wouldn't suggest the MPH to any newbie, just that it is a good gun to aim to be able to use eventually.

no kidding i love my 2100+103, and wouldnt mind seeing it stacked against the other TT weapons opalo and others.

also the skill gains with a 2100 seem to be more in line with melee due to the really small range the 2100 has. i know you are not factoring in that i may gain more defensive skills by using a 2100 (or any handgun) then opalo (or any rifle) but it is somewhate important to mention as well i think.

 

[EyeContact]

After I read about the 2100 I bought one and amped it with an a104. I already maxed it (experienced laser sniper) and I got around 800 HG skills from my Ep40 (dont use it much).
With only 30 ped of ammo I gained around 50 HG skills and it's indeed a bit more economical then an opalo with a104. The damage/sec is a bit lower though, so I took a few extra hits on my armour and a bit more fapping. All around I think MA made sure there wouldn't be much difference between the two in overall cost.
The only downside is the range and where most pistols make up for this with a high rate of fire, the 2100 doesn't (same as opalo).

I think if you want to skill up pistol, this one is the way to go until you're well over 3K handgun, same as the opalo for rifle basically.

 

[Borealis]

eco-wise, i would have thought this obvious. i dont understand how people think it more eco unamped.

Correct. Amps have better economy than most guns and will therefore
improve the economy.

I always use an A104 together with the gun I plan to use the most.
The only reason to use a lower amp would be if I were to hunt
weak mobs. In such cases the "overkill" cost can become quite big
if using a weapon that is to powerfull.

Example: Maxed out Opalo+A104 on male snable youngs is a bad combination
since you frequently do about 90% damage on your first shot. Then you need
to use a second shot to kill it and 80% of the potential damage will be waisted.

 

[Gingko]

i dont understand you m8. youve comaperd the opallo with the opallo+amp, and you say you miss less when ur amped. thats not because for ur amp m8, all the amp does is amplify ur dmg.

I should have given confidence intervals for the miss-rate. The samples (i.e. number of damage recordings) are not infinite, so the miss-rate estimate is not the actual miss-rate... basic statistics. SO:

Opalo alone (took more recordings last night):
Shots 95, Misses 10, Miss rate calculated 10,5%,
95% Confidence Interval for miss rate: 5,2 .... 18,5%
Tells you that you can be 95% sure the true miss rate is in the range from 5,2 to 18,5%.

Opalo with A103 (from data posted above):
Shots 150, Misses 9, Miss rate calculated 6,0%,
95% Confidence Interval for miss rate: 2,8 .... 11,1%

So, the confidence intervals overlap... there is even a statistical test that tells me that the miss rate does not differ significantly, i.e. you cannot say one is better than the other (there is a 22% chance that they are the same). Which fits your point made.

eco-wise, i would have thought this obvious. i dont understand how people think it more eco unamped.

the whole point is ACTUAL DAMAGE. Eco may be determined by HOW the Amp deals its damage compared to the gun. They both don't deal max damage. So, is the "damage roll" for the combination, or for each one separate and added? Is it for each damage type (burn vs. penetration)? If the Amp damage is not dependent on the same damage skills as the gun but on a modification of those, then Eco with amp could be worse than without. If MA had designed the AMP to need much higher skills than the gun, you could be worse off using the amped gun as a beginner (which I still am). But it - fortunately - isn't.

also, ur comaring opallos with mann mph's. this is wrong to do. ok, if you dont really care at all which type of gun you wanna hunt with, thats fine. but opals is a rifle, and mph is pistol. different skills. by the sound of the way you compared opalo and opalo amped, this whole comparison of urs is unaccurate.

The goal was to compare different ways of hunting. I am still working on the M2100, which would be more accurate to compare against the Mann. Maybe I should add the Jester D-1 also to hold against the Opalo. Later . BUT, the Mann is worse despite my better Handgun skills, point made, forget Mann.

if uve just used ur main active avi to do the lot, and you havent made a new one for each weapon, ur way out for everything. this is becaus ur rifle skills are different to your pistol skills

I mix the shots for each gun so skill progress is same for all and therefore not important. I tell that Handgun is higher, but it does not matter for the point being made. And...:

Can I apply for more than one account?

It is not possible to have more than one account active at any time. The avatar you create will represent you in the Entropia Universe. When you start interacting with other avatars, they will get to know you by the appearance and name of your avatar.

So, not really the way to do it.

But your comments made me think about the confidence intervals and the Jester... so they were indeed valuable .

 

[andyzammy]

I should have given confidence intervals for the miss-rate. The samples (i.e. number of damage recordings) are not infinite, so the miss-rate estimate is not the actual miss-rate... basic statistics. SO:

Opalo alone (took more recordings last night):
Shots 95, Misses 10, Miss rate calculated 10,5%,
95% Confidence Interval for miss rate: 5,2 .... 18,5%
Tells you that you can be 95% sure the true miss rate is in the range from 5,2 to 18,5%.

Opalo with A103 (from data posted above):
Shots 150, Misses 9, Miss rate calculated 6,0%,
95% Confidence Interval for miss rate: 2,8 .... 11,1%

So, the confidence intervals overlap... there is even a statistical test that tells me that the miss rate does not differ significantly, i.e. you cannot say one is better than the other (there is a 22% chance that they are the same). Which fits your point made.

ok i get this now, understood.
this is where i lose you even more now:

Eco may be determined by HOW the Amp deals its damage compared to the gun.

no, the amp is just a tool. it does not have its own eco value. actually, im sure it does, but
1) you will have a very very hard time measuring this to an accurate level, due to the fact the way to correctly calculate it is one of many ways, thus you do not know which way to do it.
2)you will be unable to use this eco value with any other gun. in order to do that, u'd have to add the amp eco to the gun eco. this isnt how it works

basically, you only have to concern yourself with (eg) an opalo, and compare it to another opalo with an amp attatched to it. by the sound of your quote, your trying to simply calculate the eco of an amp that isnt attached to any weapon, which is useless information. there is no need to speculate how the damage is determined, because you cannot control those variables. only if you could control those variable would it make sence in calculating the eco of an amp separately.

If MA had designed the AMP to need much higher skills than the gun, you could be worse off using the amped gun as a beginner (which I still am). But it - fortunately - isn't.

amps do not need skills in order to be used more effectively. imo the skills only help the hit ability of your weapon. remember, your amp is a weapon attachment. it does not deal damage from a separate source, it just adds/magnifys damage from the current source. therefore the amp has no need to worry about being able to hit, only the weapon does. just think of an amped opalo as one weapon. that one weapon's stats are in blue to the right of the original stats (took me a while to figure that out lol).

The goal was to compare different ways of hunting.

yes, this is understood. it is also good that you choose to bring in a wider range of weapons for both types of ranged weapon. do not kick the mann if you want to compare it.. just dont compare it to a rifle... by the sound of it your rifle and pistol skills are very different, and therefore it woulb be an unfair test. however, you may also look at it from a different point of view:

you may want all your different skills to be of similar and equal level, in order to find out which weapons are suitable for your current skill level. as your skills (hypothetically) are more or less the same lvl, you would be comparing your hit abilitys with the weapons you are comparing. (i believe this is the test you are doing, as the thread title says "Beginner hunting".)

however, your hit abilitys for all the weapons you use may be very good, and you wish to compare the skill levels you have in order to find out what skill lvls other people need in order to get the same hit ability as yourself. this is a teidious task, not one many would opt to do. this one would need more than one avi to test, with similar hit abilitys to the first. the skill lvls would then be averaged out, and you'd find what lvls are required in order to effectively use the weapons compared. (this sounds like the one you'r doing, owing to the fact that your pistol and rifle skills differ. it isnt logical to compare n00b weapons if your skills are all different. they should be constant.)

so if you still wish to compare pistols to rifles, either get yourskills at the same level, or get similar (im thinking 7/10) hit abilitys for all your weapons. either way, you will then be able to compare the most efficient weapon.

what ive just said also applies to the following quote:

I mix the shots for each gun so skill progress is same for all and therefore not important. I tell that Handgun is higher, but it does not matter for the point being made.

imo this is totally wrong. eg. u may still have skill bonuses on your opalo, but as your "miximg shots for each gun" you yourself cannot tell where all of your skillgains are really comming from. you may think it all equal, but the skill learning bonus on the opalo may account for 90% of the skills you've gained. if you HG skillgains are higher than your rifle, it proves to me that your HG skils are too low to be compaired fairly to the rifle skills. you should really imo be gaining skills at the same rate as rifle.

ofc it really depends on the way you're comparing the guns. if i were you, i'd use the second way i listed, and try and get all hit abilitys for all weapons to an equal and reasonable level.

hope this makes sence to you
gl
zammy

 

[mrproper]

zammy you are all over the place...

- amp eco * amp spend + weapon eco * amp spend = total eco * spend.
perfectly simple equation, you know ALL the variables there, why do you say the amp does not have an eco value? Just visit pe-wiki.info and play with the weapon chart, add amps on different weapons, see how it works.

- amps do need skills to make them work better, unfortunately. Their damage interval is percentually copied from the weapon it attaches to. Amplifiers give you a better economy but supply MA with more decay, this means you pay more to MA but enjoy a better game state.

- skill determines your HA and Crit stats. There are several categories, tt weapons, limited weapons, normal weapons, but all weapons in the same category share the same stats. So it's not that hard to see that a noob has only a good opalo at about 1000 skill, maybe a good L weapon at 2000 and it has to work a long way before he reaches 3000-4000 or whatever to get a good eco on the big guns.

- what do skill gains have to do with the test. It's just a damage/hit test, no skills involved.

 

[andyzammy]

why do you say the amp does not have an eco value?

oh i said it was there, i just didnt think you could get anything out of having just that eco value alone:

actually, im sure it does, but...

then i go off on one lol

i dont (adn dont think i will ever) understand how skills improve an amp's effectiveness, especially with a maxed out opalo. as i have said before, i always thought that skills (mostly) influenced the hit and critic. hit abilitys.

as for being all over the place, i probably was. i just listed two methods i thought would be a fair test to "size" weapons up. i myself prolly wont go for anything higher than opalo for a long time, so personally i have no intrest in "exactly" how these tests are carried out (ie. the results wont affect my decision either way). i have a general interest in how exactly things are tested in PE, seeing as tho it always seems almost "impossible" to do it afirly and accurately.

i just manetioned skillgains to prove to Gingko that his HG skill was not at the same lvl as his rifle skill (because surely if they both had ~the same amount of skillgains, they would be similar themselves). i didnt mean that skilgains affected hit ability directly...

hope this helps to explain what i meant (you may say "theorised" lol!)

unfortunately my poor explenation skills have created a misunderstanding between what i wrote, and what i meant..... will definitely work on them lol

gl
zammy

 

[Jimmy B]

Your hit ability on M2100 and Opalo is 10/10 as is your crit ability. Your dmg range on these is 50%-100%. These facts alone make them the most economic options amp or no amp until you have very high skills. As amps are more economical than any weapon barring imk2, adding an amp will improve your efficiency further. Also it'll cause higher dmg/sec which will reduce your fap and armor costs. The amped M2100 is more efficient than the amped opalo because 'theres more amp compared to the amount of gun' if you get my meaning. I use opalo anyway as the difference isn't that vast and the extra dmg/sec is useful.

Your hit ability on Mann MPH is more like 1/10 and your dmg range is 25%-100%. Thats where the bad economy comes from.

Regarding the amped opalo versus snablesnot youngs, problem is easily solved by carrying another unamped opalo or an unamped M2100 to finish it off. Where you can go wrong with opalo is to kill mobs that do you a lot of dmg with it (high fap & armour decay destroy the efficiency as you could kill the mob quicker with a less efficient weapon and not incur these costs) or kill mobs that have too high HP (the mob's regeneration means you have to take more shots) or generally a combination of both.

 

[BubbleBlip]

It seems to me that until you are very confident with your skills, you should use opalo or m2100.

So beginners: Dont buy "better" weapon, buy bigger amp.

Thats what Im going to do at least.

 

[Jimmy B]

It seems to me that until you are very confident with your skills, you should use opalo or m2100.

So beginners: Dont buy "better" weapon, buy bigger amp.

Thats what Im going to do at least.

No reason not to experiment with some other weps when you have some spare ped though . Partly for fun, also partly for improved economy. Good use of a tagging gun can improve the economy of some hunts even though the tagging gun itself may not be that economical for instance.

Also, I should point out that a complete beginner hunter has 0/10 hit ability and 25%-100% on opalo as well as all other weps. So the first few hunts it doesn't really make much difference what they use.

 

[Gingko]

hope this makes sence to you
gl
zammy

Most of it does ... overall I was just looking at the actual eco of the guns, not skillgain, not eco including armor decay, FAP decay or anything else.

I did not account the skill bonuses (I need to post my actual hit ability and bonus state here, will take screenies tonight) to give the full picture.

I also will consider blessing my wife with her own avatar in order to get the real n00b picture here

... more work to do ...

 

[BubbleBlip]

So the first few hunts it doesn't really make much difference what they use.

Dont forget opalos and m2100s skilling bonuses. If you want to gain skills fast and economical way there arent much other reasonable options - especially in first hunts.

Of course if you dont care about skills or economy so much, you can well buy the weapon that looks, sounds or feels cool.

 

[Vedder]

Nice test...
Just a few comments here:

- You have tested the DMG/PEC... But another important point is SKILLS/PEC. It's often better to hunt unamped, EVEN though dmg/pec is lower, simply because you get more skills for your money.

-Until you reach nearly 10/10 with Opalo/M2100, STAY AWAY from amps, if you want to hunt as economically as possible.

- A104 is also very cheap, and it gives you better dmg/pec than A103, unless you're using imk2. Bigger amps (A105, A106, A204) are ever better, but costs a lot ofc.

- Seems your statistics might be based on a bit small amounts of data... I'd ecpect to see the numbers change a bit, if you repeat the test some more.

 

[rupie]

i have nearly 2k rifle and when i look at other weapons i see a hit ability of 1.2/10 and a high ammo consumption/damage done. If you add that up any other weapon compared to opalo is a very bad choice. So why would you get one? Bigger mobs dont give better loots, everyone keeps saying that. So there is no point in getting a better weapon if you look at economy. If you dont look at economy you only have to look at highest damage weapons and dont have to run any testes.

 

[andyzammy]

Most of it does ... overall I was just looking at the actual eco of the guns, not skillgain, not eco including armor decay, FAP decay or anything else.

ah rite then, lol that basically puts all what ive said out of the window, sorry for rambling on like that lol!

makes sense now just measurin up eco...



c ya later

 

[Gingko]

Update

Finally, I found the time to fill in some gaps to my initial post that you guys have pointed out.

So, to add to the data before, my hit ability / critical hit ability for the guns:
Opalo: 10.0 / 10.0
M2100: 10.0 / 10.0
Mann MPH: 1.0 / 3.2 (so quite a difference here)

Then updated / added data for the n00b TT gun combos only:

1) Sollomate Opalo with A103
Miss rate: ~ 9% (95% Conf. Inverval: 6.4% ; 12.2%)
Critical hit rate: ~ 3% (95% Conf. Inverval: 1.6% ; 5.2%)
Average Damage (normal hits only): 14.6
Average Damage including misses and criticals: 14.0
Cost for 1 shot (ammo & decay): 4.63 pec
Eco (including misses & criticals): 0.33 pec / HP damage or 3.0 damage per pec
Actual Damage/sec (40 attacks/min): 9.3 HP

All shots included:
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]
Only normal hits included -- not sure whether this can be called a uniform distribution... wonder whether damage is determined per damage type and then added together? I will watch this...
[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

2) Omegatron M2100 with A103
Miss rate: ~ 8% (95% CI: 3.7% ; 14.7%)
Critical hit rate: ~ 2% (95% CI: 0.2% ; 6.3%)
Average Damage (normal hits only): 11.6
Average Damage including misses and criticals: 10.9
Cost for 1 shot (ammo & decay): 3.63 pec
Eco (including misses & criticals): 0.33 pec / HP damage or 3.0 damage per pec
Actual Damage/sec (40 attacks/min): 7.3 HP

[br]Click to enlarge[/br]

So the economy of Opalo + A103 vs. M2100+A103 is the same (calculated on actual damage) but M2100 is a bit slower (only 78% of the damage per sec). Together with the fact that the Opalo has a much better range, it is my personal preference . I will stick to my Opalo

 

[Gargamel]

I checked my weapon tool calculations against your calculations.

With 8% 10/10 misses and
Opalo: 10.0 / 10.0
M2100: 10.0 / 10.0

My tool gives:
opalo+103 : 9.2 dmg/sec , eco 2.983 dmg/pec/s
m2100+103. 7.36 dmg/sec , eco 3.044 dmg/pec/s

Damages seems to be in line but there seems to be a bit difference in aconomy results (maybe just because they are in different format). I calculated mine from DamagePerSecond/CostPerSecond

 

[Gingko]

I checked my weapon tool calculations against your calculations.

With 8% 10/10 misses and
Opalo: 10.0 / 10.0
M2100: 10.0 / 10.0

My tool gives:
opalo+103 : 9.2 dmg/sec , eco 2.983 dmg/pec/s
m2100+103. 7.36 dmg/sec , eco 3.044 dmg/pec/s

Damages seems to be in line but there seems to be a bit difference in aconomy results (maybe just because they are in different format). I calculated mine from DamagePerSecond/CostPerSecond

... edit: I had a wrong decay for the M2100, corrected values match up nicely, thanks for pointing this out. The rest of the difference is criticals and actual vs. assumed flat distribution I think.

 

[Jimmy B]

Dont forget opalos and m2100s skilling bonuses. If you want to gain skills fast and economical way there arent much other reasonable options - especially in first hunts.

Good point, I forgot skilling bonuses when I wrote that. Thanks.

Bigger mobs dont give better loots, everyone keeps saying that

Not true. Try hunting 100ped on cornundacauda matures and then 100ped on cornundacauda guardians. Per individual mob the guardians will give you more I promise you, (unless you hof on a mature or something ).

When people say this they are talking about really big mobs. Tigerman I think said the other day that Atrox Stalkers loot less than Atrox Alphas for instance. Really big mobs sometimes drop really big items though

I do sometimes wonder if the loot is somehow affected by how well you killed the mob. eg. mobs that I have to fap a lot for and nearly die on generally don't seem to loot as well as mobs I kill reasonably comfortably. Also if I go on a hunt on mobs say Mature-Providers the providers seem to 'no loot' more than the others. Likewise with dominants if I'm hunting the same mob providers-dominant. I wonder if this may be some kind of global/hof generation and it saves up the loots from some of the biggest mobs you are killing at the time. Just speculation though...