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Question: Bitcoin instead of USD?

BlackHawk

BlackHawk

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Black Hawk Hawk
I looked into the way that system works and it seems to be one of the best value transfer model out there. The reasons would become more obvious for anyone understanding the concept, so, have a look at
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Main_Page
 
There has been huge discussions about that before, for example in this thread: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?211980



I still have heard nothing about Bitcoin other than it being used for money laundring, criminal transactions, has low security and being accused of being a pyramid scheme, etc... So no, from me.
 
Nighthawk said:
There has been huge discussions about that before, for example in this thread: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?211980



I still have heard nothing about Bitcoin other than it being used for money laundring, criminal transactions, has low security and being accused of being a pyramid scheme, etc... So no, from me.
Click to expand...

money laundring - yes
criminal transaction - possible
low securite - never (unless there is a person or organisation of more than half of the computers used in the bitcoin network)
pyramid scheme - nothing in common with this.

I would love to see this curency as global curency - no goverments control over it at all!. Sadly there are too many sceptical people out there.

Falagor
:bandit:
 
Falagor said:
low securite - never (unless there is a person or organisation of more than half of the computers used in the bitcoin network)
Click to expand...

There were concerns about hacking, malware, viruses, etc in the places I have read about it.

Symantec also reported malware being used to take over computers and using them to mine bitcoins or something...?



Falagor said:
pyramid scheme - nothing in common with this.
Click to expand...

Fine, more of a ponzi scheme then.





To be honest, I do not really care about the details since I see no merit in switching to it... I can see no advantage at all in doing it, and all the people I know that has some knowledge of how it actually works says the whole thing is complete BS, or even an outright scam/scheme :rolleyes:
 
Nighthawk said:
There were concerns about hacking, malware, viruses, etc in the places I have read about it.

Symantec also reported malware being used to take over computers and using them to mine bitcoins or something...? (...)
Click to expand...

Agree that only thing you would need to "take" someones money is his secret key (stored on computer - or if you like on few computers becuase you can easily distribute your bitcoins over many accounts - in practice in infinite number of accounts).
But consider something like credit card - only thing person needs to know is your name and the card number... which you actually GIVE out to public when you buy something. I really do not understand how insecure system like this could be out there - but yet it is world wise and many people use it each day not even thinking about security (i dont own and never will own credit card).

As for malware using other computers to mine bitcoins - well there could be malware that would take over most procesor/graphic card calculation power and use it as a sold good to companys who actually need tremendous computer power for their calulations - same effect: hacker earns computing power which is sold for money.

Nighthawk said:
Fine, more of a ponzi scheme then.
Click to expand...

For a ponzi scheme there must be one or few people who actually earn money on others. By paying old investors with new investors.
Bitcoin is actuall a curency (so nothing like ponzi scheme) that if people agree on can be exchanged for goods and services. Imagine paying others with beer caps and notice that if everyone would agree to it then this could also be a curency (wait... what game was it... F...?). If you reallythink that dollar is more reliable then i must dissapoint you. Until some time (i don't know when i am really bad with history) there was actual coverage in gold for each dollar in US. But later for some reason someone (banks, goverments) decided that it is not necesary anymore and they can print money as much as they want (of course they do it reasonable so inflation is still small). With bitcoins everyone would know how much "money" are printed and know exactly how fast they are printed (for everyone who does not know the system - everyoen can print money but the system is constructed in a way that it auto adjust so there is always same amount money printed every time untill all money are printed - yes! there will be a moment when there will be no more monay and noone will be able to add any more into system - like with gold: after extracting all from ground - there can't be any more).

Side note: i read not long ago in National Geogrpaphic that there is couontry (Somalia i think) that one of possible ways to pay is with cell transfer. Of course that is nothing like bitcoin because it is controlled by that cell company (and bitcoin is controlled by all users together) but you can see that "money" is just a symbol that is used for easier transactions. Sure i would like to pay 2 cows for my haircut and 5 breads but that would be really hard to do globally ;).

Nighthawk said:
To be honest, I do not really care about the details since I see no merit in switching to it... I can see no advantage at all in doing it, and all the people I know that has some knowledge of how it actually works says the whole thing is complete BS, or even an outright scam/scheme :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Of course i respect your opinion but i must disagree with your statement that it is scam/bs.

Notice that i do not wan't to convince anyone - it is just as how i see this curency.
 
That'll never happen.

As I understand it, you want to tie the ped value, to the value of 1 bitcoin with a fixed rate?

That would be way too risky for both MA, players and investors, since the value of BitCoins, is far to unstable.
No one would know their investment would be reduced by 50% in a matter of days, solely due to "currency fluxation" (or speculation).

Values in EU need to be tied to a stable currency. One major factor of currency stability is volume. BitCoins doesn't have that and probably never will.
 
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Vedder said:
That'll never happen.

As I understand it, you want to tie the ped value, to the value of 1 bitcoin with a fixed rate?

That would way too risky for both MA, players and investors, since the value of BitCoins, is far to unstable.
No one would know their investment would be reduced by 50% in a matter of days, solely due to "currency fluxation" (or speculation).

Values in EU need to be tied to a stable currency. One major factor of currency stability is volume. BitCoins doesn't have that and probably never will.
Click to expand...

There can be a way out there to translate from USD to Bitcoin. That would not be such a problem. As for the unstable aspect... I don't see the USD keeping its value. Actually is bound to crash. Up until now, it was a good reason to have it, since it was the reserve courenci of the entire world. This status will be lost. Is a matter of time until that happens. BRICKS nations already do economic agreements to move off dollar as a medium of exchange, and when they will take more concrete actions, USD will just crash.

With the Bitcoin, having it under public control and open source system, the complete crash of the system is just too hard to have. Most people involved in this process experts in their field and any flaw that may become apparent, can be fixed.

As for bitcoin mining bots in malaware... any currency has people trying to exploit it. That is not the problem of the bitcoin itself, since there are malawares that steal credit card info and no one has a problem with that. Most times they blame the user in those cases... why any other way now?
 
Vedder said:
That'll never happen.

As I understand it, you want to tie the ped value, to the value of 1 bitcoin with a fixed rate?

That would way too risky for both MA, players and investors, since the value of BitCoins, is far to unstable.
No one would know their investment would be reduced by 50% in a matter of days, solely due to "currency fluxation" (or speculation).

Values in EU need to be tied to a stable currency. One major factor of currency stability is volume. BitCoins doesn't have that and probably never will.
Click to expand...

Doubt it will happen any time soon, but you could have more then one currency in entropia, a voluntary one for those who prefere to keep their money in bitcoins(PEBs?) instead of dollars (PEDs). And no, MA would not need to take any risks then.

I think having more options then dollar would be good anyway, because I think the superior dollar time might come to and end, already quite alot of inflation. Could have other options aswell, Euro, Swiss, Gold, silver. ofcourse it would probaly add too much work.

But Im glad someone is discussing it, bitcoin or similiar currencys will definitly change up the world, whether you or anyone else wants it too or not, it's here to stay.
 
The Currency mainly used used for commodities and shipping worldwide seems like a good choice given its general acceptance throughout the world, leave it as USD I say.
 
Bitcoin is mainly used for buying drugs online. Additionally it's a very unstable currency and the value can change pretty fast. Imagine having a withdrawel pending and getting only half as much after 40 days.
 
Well, the future of USD is vague, so it understandable that people want to see it replaced with something else. But the thing is, if/when USD collapse, Entropia and it's currency will be the least matter you'll care about. Most likely there won't be even functioning Internet to use your bitcoins, and the only valid currency will be ammunitions and canned meat :)
 
BlackHawk said:
There can be a way out there to translate from USD to Bitcoin. That would not be such a problem. As for the unstable aspect... I don't see the USD keeping its value. Actually is bound to crash. Up until now, it was a good reason to have it, since it was the reserve courenci of the entire world. This status will be lost. Is a matter of time until that happens. BRICKS nations already do economic agreements to move off dollar as a medium of exchange, and when they will take more concrete actions, USD will just crash.

With the Bitcoin, having it under public control and open source system, the complete crash of the system is just too hard to have. Most people involved in this process experts in their field and any flaw that may become apparent, can be fixed.

As for bitcoin mining bots in malaware... any currency has people trying to exploit it. That is not the problem of the bitcoin itself, since there are malawares that steal credit card info and no one has a problem with that. Most times they blame the user in those cases... why any other way now?
Click to expand...

Only problem with hoping/expecting for USD to crash is China (forget the rest of the BRICs countries, they're negligable compared to China), they just have to much of it, last count was around 1400billion USD (China and Hong Kong together). True the chinese are desperately trying to get rid of it by buying up anything that's for sale out in the world (mind you, buying production/intellectual property with T-bonds will give them the best interest rate ever). And yes there has been talk of skipping the USD, but only in the sense of being the most accepted/widely used currency for international transfers (oil/precious metals/business transactions in general).

So even tho the US minting dollars like crazy (just google "US money supply") and you will find that the US has been pressing the dollar like mad since 2000, it will never be able to inflate its value away (again the chinese...).

One thing that has some promise are so called local currencies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency)

And no I didn't even care to read about Bitcoin and if I presume correctly there is no production behind it, making it probably shortlived (what hinders another group and another, etc to do the same on the net?)
 
Falagor said:
no goverments control over it at all!.
Click to expand...

That's exactly why I hope this will never become a currency which I must use. I trust way more governments in what regards economy versus "collective intelligence". Open-source programming it's one thing, economy is something else.
 
Nighthawk said:
There were concerns about hacking, malware, viruses, etc in the places I have read about it.
Click to expand...
Selective information sourcing will do that to you. Then again, I don't believe you've read anything... considering the quote at the end of your post...
Symantec also reported malware being used to take over computers and using them to mine bitcoins or something...?
Click to expand...
The final quote in this post will outline why this is a pointless statement.




Fine, more of a ponzi scheme then.
Click to expand...
Nothing like Ponzi scheme. FIAT money (USD etc..) is more Ponzi that bitcoin.



To be honest, I do not really care about the details
Click to expand...
Explains why you're clueless.
 
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Kerham said:
That's exactly why I hope this will never become a currency which I must use. I trust way more governments in what regards economy versus "collective intelligence". Open-source programming it's one thing, economy is something else.
Click to expand...

Your government does not govern your finances.
You've been tricked into believing they do, but they don't.
Banking is a private arena. Government holds no weight in finance.

It sounds screwed up - and it is - but that's the world we live in.
 
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Profit said:
You think government controls your money? Banks are private.
Click to expand...

The federal reserves of independent countries? Well if you consider that the people of each country "owns" the country and therefore the federal reserves as well, I guess you are right... Back to the economics school bench, big 'F"
 
Sissi said:
And no I didn't even care to read about Bitcoin and if I presume correctly there is no production behind it, making it probably shortlived (what hinders another group and another, etc to do the same on the net?)
Click to expand...

Bitcoin is over 3 years old.
 
Sissi said:
The federal reserves of independent countries? Well if you consider that the people of each country "owns" the country and therefore the federal reserves as well, I guess you are right... Back to the economics school bench, big 'F"
Click to expand...

There is a federal reserve in America, but it's an authority, not an actual reserve of money.
Are you suggesting every country has a room full of cash, for emergencies?
I don't quite understand your post.
:confused:
 
Mod's note: Regardless of the opinions of Bitcoin (or any other subject) I ask you to leave any name calling and insults out.

Thank you.
 
BlackHawk said:
As for the unstable aspect... I don't see the USD keeping its value. Actually is bound to crash. Up until now, it was a good reason to have it, since it was the reserve courenci of the entire world. This status will be lost. Is a matter of time until that happens. BRICKS nations already do economic agreements to move off dollar as a medium of exchange, and when they will take more concrete actions, USD will just crash.
Click to expand...

Silly, and probably wishful thinking (by some here). I've read this here since I started playing over 7 years ago. I always regarded them as political posts yet they don't get moderated.

There are simply too many interests in the USD staying afloat for it to totally crash. It is extremely unlikely. It would be a world wide calamity. Same (or almost) if the Euro totally crashed. Anyone actually wishing for things like this to happen is ignorant and won't be liking it much afterwards.
 
Xen said:
Silly, and probably wishful thinking (by some here). I've read this here since I started playing over 7 years ago. I always regarded them as political posts yet they don't get moderated.

There are simply too many interests in the USD staying afloat for it to totally crash. It is extremely unlikely. It would be a world wide calamity. Same (or almost) if the Euro totally crashed. Anyone actually wishing for things like this to happen is ignorant and won't be liking it much afterwards.
Click to expand...
Yeah. Say I'm biased if you want, but we're not going to see anything like hyperinflation in Germany in the 1920s. The US has problems, and indeed the dollar has lost value. But the chances of another Great Depression are really quite small at this point.
 
Profit said:
There is a federal reserve in America, but it's an authority, not an actual reserve of money.
Are you suggesting every country has a room full of cash, for emergencies?
I don't quite understand your post.
:confused:
Click to expand...

Of course there are not "rooms full of fancy printed papers", but the federal reserves do control the amount of money on the market and not the private banks (which is oversimplified naturally), but take the so called quantitive easing going on in the US, the federal reserve "prints money" gives it to private banks so that they in turn spread it out on the market (again oversimplified)

showimage.php
[/URL][/IMG]

and yes the US has nothing to back up this amount of money besides their 2 pretty eyes...
 
If we se the dollar collapse the reccession will be so steep you wont get any buyers of anything here anyhow.
In times of need you cant eat your modfap or any other papercash.
 
Sissi said:
Of course there are not "rooms full of fancy printed papers", but the federal reserves do control the amount of money on the market and not the private banks (which is oversimplified naturally), but take the so called quantitive easing going on in the US, the federal reserve "prints money" gives it to private banks so that they in turn spread it out on the market (again oversimplified)

showimage.php
[/URL][/IMG]

and yes the US has nothing to back up this amount of money besides their 2 pretty eyes...
Click to expand...

Oh this is one of those things where I'm actually agreeing with you, I just don't realize it lol
Sorry for confusion!

ps: just to clarify; you realize that the federal reserve is independent of the federal government, right? The word "Federal" in it's title, has nothing to do with it's jurisdiction. It' s not a government department. The government's involvement stops at the point bonds are traded for FIAT. The government can't even get the Fed audited, so why anyone would think they have ANY jurisdiction, is beyond me.
A multitude of important figures over the last 500 years have spoken on this topic, so I am amazed how many people still have no idea how banks work.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractional_reserve_banking
http://www.infowars.com/fractional-reserve-banking-government-and-moral-hazard/
http://www.themoneymasters.com/faqs/

Google is handy.
I suggest people like Kerham "clue up".




Back to topic lol
 
is this the same bitcoin that crashed from $30 to about $3 over the summer of 2011? what a wretched idea it would be to tie anything to that.

its a neat little idea, an experiment in economics, computer science and sociology. all it takes is one breakthrough in cost to manufacture a chip that can efficiently generate new hashes and the values will drop accordingly. if you've worried about the stability of the $, rest assured that if it collapses it will take everything else down with it, you may not have the power supply to run your PC to accees your bitcoin wallet let alone worry about ModFap values.
 
BlackHawk said:
There can be a way out there to translate from USD to Bitcoin. That would not be such a problem. As for the unstable aspect... I don't see the USD keeping its value. Actually is bound to crash.
Click to expand...

Problem with a currency like bitcoin is that (as far as I know) it's not an officially recognized convertible currency. Though in some areas it might be useful, and even somewhat convertible - if you find a buyer/seller privately. But to use in entropia might be like trying to use Transnistrian Roubles(?) in Dallas; your chance of getting it converted to real money depends on if someone wants to buy it just for fun.

From MAs point of view, there might be problems if someone suddently starts to deposit big amounts in bitcoins at a certain rate, and then a month later wants to withdraw it all in USD - then MA would start to work as a bitcoin broker (which I don't think they want/is their business). (And for people who have loaned IRL money to get landareas, I don't think they suddently want their payouts in bitcoins.) In case someone today has bitcoins and want it deposited it probably easiest for everyone if they themselves convert the bitcoins to USD (or another depositable currency) and deposit for themselves, saving MA the headache of having to stand for the risk. (Of course, if some IRL bank would start to trade bitcoins in a reliable way then it would be a different thing.)

In case USD would be an unstable currency you could possibly tie the PED to something else that has an internationally recognized stable market value. Maybe gold, swiss francs or even SDR.
 
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