Call for disciplinary action on the part of all UA cheaters during this years Merry Mayhem.

Magyar_Republic

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As an investor and CLD holder of Planet Calypso, I along with others like me are entitled to receive a portion of the planet partner profits paid every week.

This normally occurs without issue.

However, during this years Merry Mayhem an exploit was discovered which allowed certain individuals the capability to artificially dip into the Planet Partner income mechanism and undeservedly obtain money that did not belong to them through the UA rewards, then subsequently use it toward their own benefit. This process was repeatable and resulted in a significant interruption of Planet Partner income, as reflected by CLD payouts being nonexistent during the Christmas Holiday week, and significantly reduced the week prior.

This was acknowledged as a problem by MindArk, and I believe MindArks decision to hold the entire playerbase responsible by not issuing payouts is nothing more than providing tacit approval to those who exploited the system, while punishing those who did not by forcing them to pay for the misdeeds of others.

I wish to remind MindArk that this sort of conduct by players is unacceptable, and it must be punished in order to maintain an ethical standard within the community.

The punishment should be as follows:

1) Minor exploiters: 30 day ban from the Entropia Universe system. During such ban any CLD that the exploiter holds will not pay out, nor will any property. Instead all income will be diverted to reimburse the Planet Partner and non exploiting CLD holding accounts.

2) Major Exploiters (and those who continued exploiting after the warning provided by MA): Permanent ban. Complete asset liquidation via auction. All proceeds go towards reimbursing the Planet Partner and non exploiting CLD holding accounts.

Theft from others demands swift action. These players knowingly and intentionally stole from other community members. By MindArk's own code of conduct their actions are unacceptable and should result in immediate removal from the game.

Thank you for your time reading this.
 

Venture Bros

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You clearly didn't think this through, at all...

Yea, lets ban people for 30 days so they can't make MA extra income in those 30 days. That will only serve to reduce CLD profits even more, and maybe even make them quit after 30 days.

Keeping people out of the game does nothing but harm the game. MA wants them spending for those 30 days and beyond.

If you want to punish them, take PED from their cards, set them at a negative balance, or take their items and put them in global action.

A temporary ban serves absolutely no purpose in this game.
 

atomicstorm

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Citation of information regarding this cheat or repeatable exploit? Only heard speculation and that said repeatable action did not work.

Otherwise, agree with disciplinary action.
 

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All we know is that someone or something screwed up and MA posted a message blaming "exploiters" and everyone wigged out. It's kind of like the way that politicians are labeling everyone they don't like as a "terrorist". I'm still waiting for a full explanation before I buy into the hysteria.
 

Venture Bros

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I've seen a hundred theorize as to how this was done, all argued against. I agree, what is the exact exploit?

Was the exploit even just participating at all? Perhaps you exploited too and don't know it? Maybe getting any ammo at any point was the exploit?

Maybe you should be banned under your own opinion Magyar, for exploiting by just partaking in the event (my point being we don't know what the exploit is, how it was done, or even if you yourself did it unaware it was the exploit simply by participating). We just don't know enough yet to start pointing fingers and punishing.
 

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Citation of information regarding this cheat or repeatable exploit? Only heard speculation and that said repeatable action did not work.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?281156-Merry-Mayhem-Update

"Unfortunately, due to some users exploiting the generosity of the bonus rewards, it has been necessary to disable the Universal Ammo bonus rewards in the Merry Mayhem Free-For-All category. As quest rewards are part of the weekly Calypso Land Deed revenue calculation, this abuse will negatively effect the CLD revenue for the current week."

Otherwise, agree with disciplinary action.

I believe you have your citation there, directly from MA. That's all we need to know.
 

Venture Bros

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https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?281156-Merry-Mayhem-Update

"Unfortunately, due to some users exploiting the generosity of the bonus rewards, it has been necessary to disable the Universal Ammo bonus rewards in the Merry Mayhem Free-For-All category. As quest rewards are part of the weekly Calypso Land Deed revenue calculation, this abuse will negatively effect the CLD revenue for the current week."



I believe you have your citation there, directly from MA. That's all we need to know.


Yea, that doesn't state how it was done at all. For all we know anyone participating did it using your above quote from MA.
 

Magyar_Republic

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Yea, that doesn't state how it was done at all. For all we know anyone participating did it using your above quote from MA.

This is nonsense. You're basically asking MA to disclose who did it. That's for them to decide, using their logs and their definitions. Not for you or any other player to decide. Obviously there was an exploit. Obviously money was stolen from other players during this exploit on a large scale. So why is it not obvious that there needs to be a remedy to this?
 

Venture Bros

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This is nonsense. You're basically asking MA to disclose who did it. That's for them to decide, using their logs and their definitions. Not for you or any other player to decide. Obviously there was an exploit. Obviously money was stolen from other players during this exploit on a large scale. So why is it not obvious that there needs to be a remedy to this?

Not who, how. Unless we know how we cannot make suggestions of what to do. For all we know you exploited too by simply playing in the event and making a single 'legitimate' exchange.

Unless we know how the exploit was done, we don't know how widespread it was. For all we know 99% of MM participants exploited. For all we know simply getting ANY UA from the event was an exploit.


We don't know shit, and thus we shouldn't make shitty suggestions like you are attempting due to the complete lack of knowledge and understanding in the subject. Just as MA should find who did it, they should punish based on their own decisions, not ours.
 

Venture Bros

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Not for you or any other player to decide.


How can you say that it's not up to us to decide who to punish, but then try to decide yourself, with other players, the punishment. That is the most hypocritical thing I have read in some time.
 

Magyar_Republic

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Not who, how. Unless we know how we cannot make suggestions of what to do. For all we know you exploited too by simply playing in the event and making a single 'legitimate' exchange.

Unless we know how the exploit was done, we don't know how widespread it was. For all we know 99% of MM participants exploited. For all we know simply getting ANY UA from the event was an exploit.


We don't know shit, and thus we shouldn't make shitty suggestions like you are attempting due to the complete lack of knowledge and understanding in the subject. Just as MA should find who did it, they should punish based on their own decisions, not ours.

You're wrong. Why are you grasping at straws trying to find some sort of logical way out of this?

WE dont need to know how its done. That information is irrelevant.

WE do know how widespread it was, because CLD payouts were affected to such a point that there were ZERO payouts on Xmas. Zero. For the first time in the history of CLD payouts. MA was gracious enough to tell us why.

It's up to them now to review their logs.
 

atomicstorm

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https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?281156-Merry-Mayhem-Update

"Unfortunately, due to some users exploiting the generosity of the bonus rewards, it has been necessary to disable the Universal Ammo bonus rewards in the Merry Mayhem Free-For-All category. As quest rewards are part of the weekly Calypso Land Deed revenue calculation, this abuse will negatively effect the CLD revenue for the current week."



I believe you have your citation there, directly from MA. That's all we need to know.

That's not a citation. Didn't say anyone cheated. It could just as easily say people took advantage of a good thing (definition of exploit) but was unintended consequence of something they didn't think through. Ie. Buying stars from people and not participating. That's not cheating but maybe wasn't in the spirit of their intent and thus the language they used.

You're going to have to wait for mindark to give a public address about this. You can demand all you want but we are ALL speculating at the moment.
 

Magyar_Republic

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That's not a citation. Didn't say anyone cheated. It could just as easily say people took advantage of a good thing (definition of exploit) but was unintended consequence of something they didn't think through.

You're going to have to wait for mindark to give a public address about this. You can demand all you want but we are ALL speculating at the moment.


due to some users exploiting

What part of exploiting is not cheating? I'm beginning to think I'm talking to some of the folks who got these UA rewards.
 

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https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?281156-Merry-Mayhem-Update

"Unfortunately, due to some users exploiting the generosity of the bonus rewards, it has been necessary to disable the Universal Ammo bonus rewards in the Merry Mayhem Free-For-All category. As quest rewards are part of the weekly Calypso Land Deed revenue calculation, this abuse will negatively effect the CLD revenue for the current week."



I believe you have your citation there, directly from MA. That's all we need to know.

Right, you still have no idea what the supposed exploit was, you are just lashing out because your CLD income was decreased.

Right now it looks like poor design on MA's part is the problem. Alts can only buy points that were hunted for by others. If that decreases income then the problem is that the rewards were too good.

It's too late now though, MA must provide the rewards it promised or this may be the final straw for many.
 

xXSqUaLLXx

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MindArk created the design of everything, including mayhem design of this year.

They fucked up.

They then make customers pay.


How about blaming who should be blamed ?

Whatever happened It's MA fault, and as usual they put faults onto someone else expecting people to randomly get mad at players instead of them.
 

Magyar_Republic

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Right, you still have no idea what the supposed exploit was, you are just lashing out because your CLD income was decreased.

Right now it looks like poor design on MA's part is the problem. Alts can only buy points that were hunted for by others. If that decreases income then the problem is that the rewards were too good.

It's too late now though, MA must provide the rewards it promised or this may be the final straw for many.

I am taking issue with this because the exploiters are being rewarded, while those who did not are being punished.

Not only do the exploiters use UA that I paid for, but their scores are inflated so that they can get rewards, once again, because I paid for them.

I did not volunteer to pay for them. This money was taken from me without my consent. That is stealing. ALL players involved in this behavior are thieves. They should be treated as such.
 

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due to some users exploiting

What part of exploiting is not cheating? I'm beginning to think I'm talking to some of the folks who got these UA rewards.

i really dont see how selling or buying points that are tradable and even published by ma that this year points are tradable can be called an exploit

making alt avas to make use of the pointconversions,sure...but thats already against tou anyway
 

Magyar_Republic

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MindArk created the design of everything, including mayhem design of this year.

They fucked up.

They then make customers pay.


How about blaming who should be blamed ?

Whatever happened It's MA fault, and as usual they put faults onto someone else expecting people to randomly get mad at players instead of them.

MA will be held accountable. Because they will need to market again to attract new whales. I have no doubt that some high profile players were involved in this behavior. Part of that marketing will no doubt have to answer for the problems of this years MM. How that answer is given will determine the success of future marketing. If QA continues to be substandard, players will choose not to invest. MA will need to show they have learned from this.

They are trying to avoid being held accountable by holding the entire playerbase responsible for the actions of a few.
 

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I am taking issue with this because the exploiters are being rewarded, while those who did not are being punished.

Not only do the exploiters use UA that I paid for, but their scores are inflated so that they can get rewards, once again, because I paid for them.

I did not volunteer to pay for them. This money was taken from me without my consent. That is stealing. ALL players involved in this behavior are thieves. They should be treated as such.

I think your anger is misdirected. MA really screwed up here. Sure, alts are against the rules but that was the case before. Again, any points bought, whether by an alt or a real person had to be hunted for, so they should have generated profit already. They did not because it may have actually been profitable for the hunter.
 

atomicstorm

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I am taking issue with this because the exploiters are being rewarded, while those who did not are being punished.

Not only do the exploiters use UA that I paid for, but their scores are inflated so that they can get rewards, once again, because I paid for them.

I did not volunteer to pay for the. This money was taken from me without my consent. That is stealing. ALL players involved in this behavior are thieves. They should be treated as such.

You have incorrect expectations.

You are entitled to a share of calypso revenue. Period.

You are not entitled to restrict how they attempt to increase revenue or promotions.

You are not entitled to demand actions based on dips and swings of weekly revenue.

You are not entitled to shareholder voting rights on decisions calypso makes (for now).

Don't like how it pays? Sell them. You can do that.

Unless some people actually cheated, then you won't get anything for that week. Right now, there is no proof that such a thing happened and seems mindark used careless language.. and that is the problem with communicating with the playerbase.. many of whom, like yourself, haven't learned yet that you can't take press releases in literal form or face value. I just see an award that was too good and people flocked to it because PEOPLE LIKE PEDS. Maybe that should tell them about markup in hunting more than anything.

Mindark didn't steal from you and we don't know if players did. You're going to have to let mindark sort through it. And when they do, they will pay out the missing week.
 

Magyar_Republic

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You have incorrect expectations.

You are entitled to a share of calypso revenue. Period.

You are not entitled to restrict how they attempt to increase revenue or promotions.

You are not entitled to demand actions based on dips and swings of weekly revenue.

You are not entitled to shareholder voting rights on decisions calypso makes (for now).

Don't like how it pays? Sell them. You can do that.

Unless some people actually cheated, then you won't get anything for that week. Right now, there is no proof that such a thing happened and seems mindark used careless language.. and that is the problem with communicating with the playerbase.. many of whom, like yourself, haven't learned yet that you can't take press releases in literal form or face value. I just see an award that was too good and people flocked to it because PEOPLE LIKE PEDS. Maybe that should tell them about markup in hunting more than anything.

Mindark didn't steal from you and we don't know if players did. You're going to have to let mindark sort through it.

Actually its your logic that is flawed.

I am entitled to a share of planet partner revenue. That revenue was noted by the parent company to have been reduced due to an exploit by players.

An exploit is the act of knowingly using a flaw in the system towards one's own advantage.

This exploit was paid for out of Planet Partner revenue.

So logically it goes like this

If revenue from planet partner pays CLD revenue
and CLD revenue was reduced due to exploit
and an exploit is defined as knowingly using a flaw in the system towards ones own advantage
and exploits that affect the economic well being of the universe are against the EULA
and such actions against the EULA are bannable offenses
and CLD investors are players
then any reduction of planet partner revenue that affects CLD equals something another player pays for thus having effect on the financial well being of the universe, and in this instance this was done through using a flaw in the system, which ultimately makes it not a valid financial transaction, not a trade, and therefore a punishable offense according to the EULA

Anything else?
 

atomicstorm

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Look. If there was an exploit, then yes you are correct and we are saying the same thing.

But you are stating there was an exploit as a fact and there is no current evidence that one existed but we know that the bonuses were way too good for the effort given. Let mindark do what they do.

No one here is refuting that you should be punished if there were some serious exploits. That should be returned and exploiters punished heavily. But if you take a step back, the most noticable issue is that the bonuses were very lucrative... VERY. And it was open for alts (against rules) and not participating players (not exploit) to cash in.
 

Magyar_Republic

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Look. If there was an exploit, then yes you are correct and we are saying the same thing.

But you are stating there was an exploit as a fact and there is no current evidence that one existed but we know that the bonuses were way too good for the effort given. Let mindark do what they do.

By MA's own words there was an exploit used. I'm not sure how that can be construed as not a fact.
 

atomicstorm

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By MA's own words there was an exploit used. I'm not sure how that can be construed as not a fact.

Because many of us already know not to take mindark literal. Wouldnt be thr first time they used careless language. There lies in our disagreement.

Anyway, I hope for the player base morale that the investigations will be quick and just.
 

Magyar_Republic

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Anyway, I hope for the player base morale that the investigations will be quick and just.

I'll agree with you there. I think holding folks who did not engage in these shenanigans financially responsible is absolutely unjust. It's a shortcut method meant to cover up a problem and quickly move on from it while avoiding resolution entirely.

Hence my post.
 

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Post #81 in the announcement thread:

An addendum to the earlier Merry Mayhem Update announcement.

Of course there will be a full investigation of potential bonus reward abuse, and sanctions imposed on those participants found to be abusing the event.

...

We appreciate your understanding while we deal with these abuse issues.


Originally Posted Here

MA did say they are investigating and WILL sanction any wrong-doers. (Insert silly Bush joke here)

So I'd say you'll get your wish Magyar, just may take some time.

Or MA will gloss over things. Again. :(
 

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This is nonsense. You're basically asking MA to disclose who did it. That's for them to decide, using their logs and their definitions. Not for you or any other player to decide. Obviously there was an exploit. Obviously money was stolen from other players during this exploit on a large scale. So why is it not obvious that there needs to be a remedy to this?


How can you say that it's not up to us to decide who to punish, but then try to decide yourself, with other players, the punishment. That is the most hypocritical thing I have read in some time.

Why did you ignore this post? What gives you the right to say it's not up to us to decide who did it, they should say who did it? But it's up to us to decide punishment? What? You are insanely hypocritical.
 
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Venture Bros

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Also I find it childish how once everyone is against you, you accuse those against you of being the exploiters. I have not even partaken in MM this year or any year mind you, yet you still make false accusations. This is exactly why we shouldn't be discussing a potential punishment when we don't even know what the exploit was.
 

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I'm not arguing with anyone here, but I think that some players should be more aware that all investments hold a risk. One of the companies I hold real-world stock in could be in the middle of an inside buyout right now and I could lose all I have invested in it. This is part of the risk of investing, particularly in something as volatile as stocks, which in a crude way is essentially what CLD and AUD are.

I'm not saying that if someone actually cheated or exploited the system they shouldn't be disciplined; but I disagree with the attitude that one should simply be entitled to an expected payout from a particular investment they hold. If MindArk lost revenue due to an exploit or for any other reason, then obviously dividends from revenue are going to suffer.
 

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The word exploit may be used improperly by MA in this situation.
Maybe the right question to ask is exactly what exploit was used? ( after MM is over)
We all know that nobody will suffer disciplinary actions, because the players that collected 2500 ped of UA didn't do anything wrong.

The fact is, when you give 1000 hunters 2500 UA x2 ( solo+FFA) it brings the bill up to 5 Million ped in free amo injected into the game.
MA made the points tradeable so people could get 2500 ped of amo without shooting a single shot, therefore not giving MA any revenue from decay.
To add to the mess, they made only 1 category reducing the odds to win something, so after accumulating 10k points you collect the amo and sell the rest or give them away.
Not to forget that in previous years you could do 40 hours without ever seeing a 5k point, while this year there are avatars with 5 drops or more!

Now, of course someone screwed up big time, but to call it a exploit is going a bit to far.
 
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