Camera & Control System Preview and Guides

[Sub-Zero]

Our goal is for the keyboard and mouse control systems to be more similar and integrated. Gameplay exclusively using the mouse in cursor mode is much more convenient and smooth in the new system, once you get used to it. I use it on my second monitor while working and it’s great!

Sorry, but this just gives me this kind of vibe. Had to do it.

What happened to choice in the equation? Why should we be forced to use the new camera system in your way? Options please they bring diversity.

 

[jetsina]

For all the mountain climbers out there, we adjusted the maximum climbable slope to 68 degrees. A slope of 50 degrees or more will force an avatar into walking animation and speed. These changes should allow avatars to climb most terrain. Keep in mind that these changes also affect mobs, and we really would prefer not to have creatures moving around on those steep hills.

There will be an option to disable the highlighting.

Yes, all actions can be mapped however you please, except for the left and right mouse buttons.

Nice - we now have a transition back in instead of a sudden full stop! I'm assuming we are assuming slopes that are over 68 degrees at maximum angle and we will slide down to whatever point is less than that if we get on one of these slopes from above or the side?

I like having options we can select or deselect, ty.

"Gameplay exclusively using the mouse in cursor mode is much more convenient".. presumably "...than it was before." We're getting options with the improvements if I read this right, except for l/r mouse. Can people switch over l/r if they want (left handed?) but not change the functions as such?

I guess I'll be reactivating spacebar to switch modes as possibly my first keymap change, by the way.

We are keeping multiple keymap numbers, I assume, but will they all be wiped apart from the text files saying what they were? Should we take screenshots to make things easier for ourselves?

 

[San]

No it will not. You will have to turn around but I do believe that it will not be an issue now with the new system. Also we don’t want you to be able to target something you cannot see.

Alright, thanks for the direct answer. Actually, in line with having said that I appreciate plausibility, I can live with that. It is also more reminiscent of the beloved old game while at the same time remove a lot of clunkiness. It'll be fine.

 

[GoNi]

Status bars in the team interface are unchanged, so interacting that way will still be possible, and will even see some improvements.

With a healing tool equipped, it is now possible to double-click (left mouse button) a teammate’s status bar to heal. Alternatively you can mouseover a teammate’s avatar or status bar and use the Use Tool action to heal that target.

And if the healer is not a member of the team, but has to heal a team?

Is it somehow still possible to have healthbars of other players, when not teamed?

I offer healingservice, and get paid / hr, teams wont share healerloot with me, so I am normally not a member of the team, but I definately need the healthbars to see who in the team gets hit and needs to be healed.

Turning around to see the HP of my customers is not practicable, especially when it is more than 2 or 3 hunters, its impossible to move around fast enough to see in time who gets hit.
Mobs like Drone Exterminators hit extremly fast, even with healthbars visible (what we have now), I need to move extremly fast to the hunter who gets hit to heal him in time (befor next hit).
Without seeing the healthbars all time, its nearly impossible.

 

[Evey]

What happened to choice in the equation? Why should we be forced to use the new camera system in your way? Options please they bring diversity.

OK here we go. No one is forcing you to do anything. There's an update of a software where you freely log in to do the things you want to do. Why so defensive? The things look greatly improved and the product changed a lot since 2003, why is it such a pain to adapt to a better interface?

 

[Sub-Zero]

OK here we go. No one is forcing you to do anything. There's an update of a software where you freely log in to do the things you want to do. Why so defensive? The things look greatly improved and the product changed a lot since 2003, why is it such a pain to adapt to a better interface?

Yes, they are. If I want to play I have to play it their "new" way even if I don't find it better. I do agree some things look improved, but the healthbars being removed and certain other shit they forcing on people instead of giving options to pick from is a big nono for me.
As for why it's such a pain to adapt. If you been playing this game in the exact same way since 2006 or earlier you may find it troublesome to accept new changes to core mechanics. In particular if you don't agree with some of it. Maybe I'm getting old and it's just me who knows.

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

Yes, all actions can be mapped however you please, except for the left and right mouse buttons.

But that's what worries me the most..
That's why I asked if all shortcuts would be customizable.

You said Left mouse button, will be "Next target", right ?

Sorry but this is to me..

Next target is very close to my WASD, same for auto-tool, loot creature..
I don't even click my mouse while hunting most time.. And I really don't want to..

So why not make Mouse button customizable also ?

You said you want better player retention, so the more customization options, the more chance to please more people..

Please consider to make every single shortcut customizable.

PS:

Now I have no idea where did I read about left mouse button for "next target"..
And probably I confused "cursor mode" whith "3rd person view".

So I guess it looks OK.

 

[Evey]

Yes, they are. If I want to play I have to play it their "new" way even if I don't find it better. I do agree some things look improved, but the healthbars being removed and certain other shit they forcing on people instead of giving options to pick from is a big nono for me.
As for why it's such a pain to adapt. If you been playing this game in the exact same way since 2006 or earlier you may find it troublesome to accept new changes to core mechanics. In particular if you don't agree with some of it. Maybe I'm getting old and it's just me who knows.

Everything changes, we change. You're not liking the new update before trying it. It's not just you but it's probably very few. The update is not ment for you, the update is for those who play other games released in this decade that look a lot better. Every gamer seeing EU, first impression - shit looking game. MA knows this and on top of fixing a TON of little annoying things for the actual hunters, they also bring the visuals closer to today. It's still years behind, but it's also years ahead of it's time with the RCE aspect of the game. The update is clearly not for old farts (like us) but, hopefully, for "new blood".

 

[bigdaddy trim]

The update is clearly not for old farts (like us) but, hopefully, for "new blood".

Yeah i just going to let my 11 year old explain to me how it works

 

[Captain Crunch]

Thank you very much for the explanation Dennis|MindArk

 

[Detritus]

I offer healingservice, and get paid / hr, teams wont share healerloot with me, so I am normally not a member of the team, but I definately need the healthbars to see who in the team gets hit and needs to be healed.

Can't you just team with them anyway? Why does it matter if you aren't getting loot? I don't understand why you have to *not* be on the team...

 

[Haruto Rat]

Can't you just team with them anyway? Why does it matter if you aren't getting loot? I don't understand why you have to *not* be on the team...

The most common reason to have healer not on the team is that the customer wants globals/HoFs to their name. (Not that it's a rational motivation, anyway)

 

[Evey]

Can't you just team with them anyway? Why does it matter if you aren't getting loot? I don't understand why you have to *not* be on the team...

That's not the healer's option. Client decides and sometimes, even if the loose loot, they decide not to take the healers in team for various reasons...

 

[theProphet]

dunno if it has been asked already, but what consequenses will this camera mode bring for pvp? could we please get a sneakpeak too?

 

[Detritus]

That's not the healer's option. Client decides and sometimes, even if the loose loot, they decide not to take the healers in team for various reasons...

The most common reason to have healer not on the team is that the customer wants globals/HoFs to their name. (Not that it's a rational motivation, anyway)

I see. Tracker has an option to input a team name that it will capture globals for, if that's the concern. If it's just vanity, then yea, RIP healers.

 

[Xen]

And if the healer is not a member of the team, but has to heal a team?

Is it somehow still possible to have healthbars of other players, when not teamed?

I offer healingservice, and get paid / hr, teams wont share healerloot with me, so I am normally not a member of the team, but I definately need the healthbars to see who in the team gets hit and needs to be healed.

Turning around to see the HP of my customers is not practicable, especially when it is more than 2 or 3 hunters, its impossible to move around fast enough to see in time who gets hit.
Mobs like Drone Exterminators hit extremly fast, even with healthbars visible (what we have now), I need to move extremly fast to the hunter who gets hit to heal him in time (befor next hit).
Without seeing the healthbars all time, its nearly impossible.

Why would a team not want you in the team? For solo hunters a health bar is not needed to heal.

 

[GoNi]

Why would a team not want you in the team? For solo hunters a health bar is not needed to heal.

Ask the team, not the healer.

And yes, for solo jobs it is not needed.

 

[Geo]

Camera and Control Introduction

[*]Removed the ability to drag out status bars. This feature caused many unintended issues and problems, and is no longer needed.


***These notes are not yet finalized. Full details will be published in the Version Update release notes.***

Unless I missed something.. They are just removing the ability to drag status bars, in cursor mode, out from a target..?
I have not seen any mention of them completely removing the “Show Status Bar” action from Action Library?

Maybe Dennis can clarify this?

Also, thank you so much for this opportunity for some open communication Dennis.
It means so much to the community. I hope moving forward you will be able to continue participating in other discussions and interacting with the community more. This is more important to everyone than a new Camera System. But I must say, it looks great and I personally am looking forward to testing it out.
Keep up the good work!

Geo

 

[San]

For all the mountain climbers out there, ...

I would like to make one last comment about this. Thank you for the little concessions, but one can literally see the eyes rolling about being bothered with this. It is understandable, therefore I will try to explain. Maybe it isn't so easy to put oneself in the shoes of those who are users of the product you create. Why is something so unimportant so important?

Mountain climbing is one of the least important activities in this VR, if we define 'important' in terms of measurable productivity and generating revenue on any side. It is most likely even just a side effect and never was a target in development. Therefore, what's the big deal if it were no more? None, really. The sense of loss is of a more general kind coming from the mere act of restricting something which was free and open before, even if only few actively wanted to go there. It propagates through universal consciousness and lingers as discontent, possibly small enough to remain subliminal, but increasing it nearer to the threshold every time something is added onto it. It is much exacerbated by the mentioned track record of abandoned promises. There is a whole string of other such 'unimportant' things we lost, endearing features implemented by the original crew of Project Entropia which provided hooks for much laughter and socializing. Those who still remember either aren't prepared to let go (see this AMA post) or have left long ago, some of them remaining in a permanent state of sour grapes playing the same record again and again on independent forums. This isn't healthy both for them and for business. One seriously wonders why that is. Is everybody crazy and why bother with these nuts? It is beyond the scope of this comment to delve into psychology too much, but for starters, they were promised to come back after the change to CryEngine. Then something happened and many of your finest people left. The rest couldn't remember or didn't want to bother with much of it anymore (are you one of the latter? - you decide). Subsequent announcements also fell under a pattern of getting reneged upon without further notice, in some cases people had invested significant amounts of money upon them (not that I call this wise, but neither is luring them in the first place and it inevitably causes wounds). This pattern is now part of this VR's universal consciousness and any further instance, no matter how small, is recognized and amplified by resonance. Hence the call to avoid any further occurrences. This isn't about mountain climbing, but paradigm. Please implement replacements together with the changes, no more promises.

I apologize for the wall of text. I actually had this speech earmarked for a private message to you and Henrik, if permitted (cf. my AMA question about contacting you). Now it had to get out. I will still want to expand on it, because the context is really not about this tiny, rather accidental 'feature' about to be removed, but affects business as such.

 

[Granny Rowan]

Changes to improve the game should be applauded (as should consultation and communication..so thank you)

That said people initially hate changes to familiar actions, I know I do but for most of us game controls changing will be a nuisance (muscle memory will repeat familiar actions rather than the new ones for some time) and as San said will just add to our frustration. But we will likely get over it in due course. Whether we then like, loathe or are indifferent to the changes will be seen over time. But...

Has anyone at Mindark considered how these changes may affect many of our players that have disabilities ?
Forcing change to how a player operates without proper consultation may render the game unplayable for them.
If only be able to use mouse left and right for certain actions how will this be accomplished by a single handed player (and we have many) while also using keyboard controls for other actions.
The current option to be able to duplicate mouse controls by mapping to keyboard circumvents this issue.
You say changing keymapping will be available but not for all actions...that is blatant nonsense... all keys (keyboard, mouse or other devices are simply digital codes sent to the processor.. where they come from is irrelevant. The only thing that restricts certain actions being re-mapped is lazy programming.

If your changes render it impossible for people with certain disabilities to play.. your reputation as a game provider will go downhill fast.
Please consider all possible outcomes of these changes. Those that will be unable to use controls as you do may well be in a minority, but even 1 person complaining they were driven out of a game is bad publicity, let alone if they lose money selling stuff and quitting. Sit back a moment and consider if you want that kind of bad press.

 

[jetsina]

This isn't about mountain climbing, but paradigm.

Some say it's easier to move a mountain than a paradigm!

But you are absolutely right. There is a section in comedian Robert Newman's "History of oil" video about 5 minutes in, in which he goes 'subliminal' about a small joke he does not wish to make. The comedian Stewart Lee has since gone waaaay deeper into 'interacting' with his audience. Sometimes I think of EU as 'carpet remnant world' as a way of cheering myself up .

Anyway, we have the AMA coming tomorrow, so we can get a new overall picture maybe.

There are probably over a hundred things you could change in small ways, or content fairly easily addable, which would improve our subliminal opinions (or consciously) point by point. I hope the changes coming soon give MA a new viewing angle on some of these too

 

[GradenFoss]

Thank you for the write-up and the two follow-ups, Dennis. Much appreciated.

Most of my concerns were already addressed by others, so I will make this short.

As a player I am constantly using dragged out healthbars. I do think that you′ve dismissed some points made regarding this too easily and did not address some concerns at all. This is not good. Please do not remove this feature.

Also please consider your demographics. There are some really old folks playing EU, not just young lads like Rick England. With old age may come failing eyesight, rheuma and arthritis ridden extremities, and a bunch of acquired handicaps. All display and control feature changes should take this in account, before being implemented. (Could we finally have percentages with the healthbar display.)

Personally, I hate that you do away with so many features that we′re grown fond of and that make EU unique, recently.

Plus, have you checked whether your intented changes to the climbing abilities might interfere with getting out of the water properly?

 

[GoNi]

Plus, have you checked whether your intented changes to the climbing abilities might interfere with getting out of the water properly?

Thats a very good question.

 

[jetsina]

Plus, have you checked whether your intented changes to the climbing abilities might interfere with getting out of the water properly?

Over the years I can't think offhand of any time MA successfully foresaw something in their failure mode analysis and acted accordingly. But then again, it's much easier for us to notice something they missed... because it IS noticeable .
The steepest water edges I know are the vertical ones on Cyrene, where you jump out of the water in those places to get on land. If I were in charge of any changes to EU's parameters I'd want to brainstorm potential failures and check through them. In this case I wouldn't expect any problems, but a tester should be tasked to check out stuff like that, yes.
I can think of areas where the land itself will now be unclimbable directly from the waterline - maybe even an entire island, but I haven't used a boat or swum long-distance for ages, nor visited anywhere where this limitation will now apply.

 

[Xen]

can think of areas where the land itself will now be unclimbable directly from the waterline - maybe even an entire island, but I haven't used a boat or swum long-distance for ages, nor visited anywhere where this limitation will now apply.

Spawn a Sleipnir.

 

[LMTR14]

Spawn a Sleipnir.

like that's so easy on slopes

I sense serious trouble ahead. e.g. my atrax and attacker spots might become unusable (on top of my head). this slope limitation WITHOUT a jetpack or jump mf chip is nothing but bullshit

 

[forgo]

...

Instead of clicking the status bar you will now click on the creature instead. It is still possible to interact with terminals using right mouse button.


Our goal is for the keyboard and mouse control systems to be more similar and integrated. Gameplay exclusively using the mouse in cursor mode is much more convenient and smooth in the new system, once you get used to it.

In some PVP instances... and PVP in general, I am certain you are aware of the random bugs where you cannot right click things, or shoot your quad in space....for the entire instance. So no, right click on terminals does not always work .

The scariest part of the thread to me is that last statement. This is what players of any game hate the most, a company head making a system that they themselves love, and forcing it upon the players, where many situations have not been considered. This kind of approach has ruined games with even more funding than EU.

Telling us how awesome it will be once we get "used to it" is some of the most dangerous words a dev can say, especially considering there was no real input in the creation of this system from players, aside from a field trip to view the already designed system.

I seriously cringe seeing that since I have been involved with many games with Devs taking the same approach....they no longer exist. Please keep in mind that just because you have a fancy degree in game development....does not mean you have any idea what your customers want, nor could you...until you talk to them and get feedback prior to starting such ventures.

Many people brought up valid disability concerns, here in the US, if you cannot comply with disability accessibility, you are fined, banned from operating business, and can even be even jailed.

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

Removed post.

I grumbled about new mouse default actions, but I think I confused "cursor mode" whith "3rd person view".

 

[Xen]

removal of quote of deleted post requested

You hit tab and F, you don't need to use the mouse at all.

 

[~ Cirrus ~]

You hit tab and F, you don't need to use the mouse at all.

Hehe I just removed the post because, as I said, I probably confused "3rd view" whith "cursor mode".