Card Games Survey

[San]

And now for something completely different.

Spoiler

Do Entropians also like playing card games, or have in the past and would like something similar to come back in a modern form? This is a survey for the purpose of gathering data for a project evaluation.

The survey question is simply: Which card games do you like, or play(ed) most?

Today, even something as seemingly easy as this can mean different things to different people. Some of us still grew up in a time where this was not the case. Card games appearing as computer programs for the first time, and the next big leap taking them online to enable playing with others across any distance, is history which happened within our lifetime. For others born later, this entire line of tradition may seem archaic and its place within the learning experiences we make when growing up is no longer obvious, or got replaced by different approaches. This project wants to examine how this traditional thing will fare under the next round of fundamental change which lies at our doorsteps.

To spare us the repeating of information which is readily available, allow me to just link a few Wikipedia articles detailing the classifications used:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Card_game#Types
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_collectible_card_game

As much of the language used there is typically rooted in regional traditions and not every item has a direct translation, it is suggested to compare equivalent articles in your native language, here a German example:
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kartenspiel#Spielarten

If your particular game is not directly named in the poll, it would be awesome if you could try and identify a category it fits in as described in the linked articles, or several if applicable, and put your checkmark there. If none of the available choices apply, please put it in the comments below. Of course you are encouraged to elaborate on your choices in the comments any way you like, esp. in the field of DCCGs which has grown so vast it defies any attempt at brevity.

Thanks in advance for all your time and input. The exact date when the project will move forward and further votes can no longer influence its design is not known at this juncture, hence I will leave the poll open-ended. The sooner we can get a good amount of data, the more interesting it gets.

 

[theProphet]

 

[Deleted member 24529]

Interesting ?

 

[theProphet]

ok no card game then ... or a miracle has to happen soon™

 

[ZippO]

MTG cards and Arena! Have a huge collection x)

 

[wizz]

Long long time ago (20 years ago?) Vampire the Masquerade, card game. Still have all the cards.
And we also played the role playing game.

 

[mastermesh]

there's a load of alpha core cards in my shop. See sig for details.

 

[MsPudding]

MTG and Hearthstone are about the only two card games I've sunk any serious time into.

 

[LavaSparks]

I've played most LCGs, CCGs, TCGs....owned 10k+ magic collection, among others. The best game, hands down, is Netrunner LCG. Asymmetric play that works. Enormeous possibility of trickery, strategy, styles of play. No other card game comes near it.

 

[Fronske]

I recently started a game similar to heartstone but with NFT's. Won a $10k card just the other day

 

[Challenger007]

I occasionally play Hearthstone. To complete all dungeons, you need to play more, so that there are collections of cards. But for now, as it is, I play with what is purely to while away leisure.

 

[Aloisius]

I recently started a game similar to heartstone but with NFT's. Won a $10k card just the other day

Which game? I found one called GodsUnchained - seems ok.

One of my favorites is Elder Scrolls Legends. Often wondered if EU would do it. Was so disappointed when they did it and it turned out to be alpha cards. Even Gwent is better than alpha cards.

MTGA is very well designed and played. It's amazing tbh. I got some pretty nasty decks. I think I said the very same thing one time 20 years ago.

 

[Fronske]

Which game? I found one called GodsUnchained - seems ok.

One of my favorites is Elder Scrolls Legends. Often wondered if EU would do it. Was so disappointed when they did it and it turned out to be alpha cards. Even Gwent is better than alpha cards.

MTGA is very well designed and played. It's amazing tbh. I got some pretty nasty decks. I think I said the very same thing one time 20 years ago.

I will PM you the details

 

[SuperMuis]

free bump

 

[TheOneOmega]

I played the Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG for at least eight years. I, like most duelists, complained regularly about the developers' game design choices. However, it wasn't until long after I had quit playing that I gradually came to appreciate, through contrast with Hearthstone and even games in other genres, that Yu-Gi-Oh got a lot of very fundamental aspects of game design right, in a way that few other games have managed. The main problem with Yu-Gi-Oh was that its marketing-focused card design choices consistently deprived the game of any semblance of balance; broken cards would repeatedly get printed and do harm to the game for a while before being forbidden, but by then new broken cards had come into existence, leaving the game feeling like it was always just a few forbidden list changes away from permitting its rich mechanical structure to shine through and allow the game to be great.

In reality, I wager there were actually, at any given time, many more layers of problematic card design hiding beneath the metagame than were perceived. Eventually the power creep, necessary in some measure but artificially accelerated to enhance sales, got so bad that it changed the nature of the game drastically, to the extent that the outcome of many if not most duels was decided by the end of the first turn, and when games did actually play out a bit, the differential in advantage between drawing and not drawing certain cards was absolutely massive, i.e., "if I topdeck a Pendulum Monster I can Special Summon five monsters for free and attack you for 15000, but if I don't draw one I can't do anything." So Yu-Gi-Oh today is sort of like a delicious cake covered with distasteful icing, which has now been spread over the cake so many times that the icing occupies more overall volume than the cake.

At some point I want to make a very long post about what broad game design principles I feel Entropia needs to proceed, and I would probably dive a lot deeper into Yu-Gi-Oh's game design as a springboard for thought, but to vaguely assert at least one of the fundamental things Yu-Gi-Oh got right, the developers never seemed to become so hyperfocused on the newcomer experience, at least at the scale common in today's development, for the game itself to become an afterthought. As a concrete example, Yu-Gi-Oh never implemented set rotation, a mechanic which I will state without proof (the arguments are far from concise) makes the newcomer experience slightly more straightforward, but is an immense, in my opinion deal-breaking net negative overall. They have also generally opted for simplifying the game via curation, and by explaining mechanics through more natural phrasings/metaphors, as opposed to via omission of those mechanics, as opposed to many game designer who start hacking away at a game's rich mechanical structure when marketing/newcomer experience constraints necessitate simplification.

 

[Aloisius]

Set rotation in MTGA is really great, I think. There's a new set coming in a few days with some new mechanics. I feel like it keeps you thinking and prevents bomb decks from dominating the metagame sphere.

I was thinking about the business model of MTGA vs MTGO the other day. It seems better now because you don't have to spend 15$ a draft anymore. On the other hand I spend more now than I would if they had the same model. It's great that you don't need to spend money, but once you do you only need to spend 100 usd per set rotation or so and you topped out. Where the other model is infinite nearly. I mean you could spend 1000 usd and not have all the cards in the set. Sustainability is a key to this.

MA would do to take the same thoughtful position that Wizards of the Coast did on this project. The problem is similar. People can spend thousands in this game and still not have an excellent setup. If said equipment were attainable with a reasonable regular deposit, say 200 usd every couple of months I would be all over it. As it stands I can't depo 1000s endlessly and won't.

Just some anecdotal thoughts. Anyone else love online collectible card games?

 

[TheOneOmega]

I definitely won't pretend to have defended my claim about set rotation. The discussion gets really involved and probably isn't relevant to this thread. To put forward just the slightest glimpse of an argument, I would not deny that all else being held constant, rotating out sets is an option by which bomb decks can be forcibly removed from competition. I would just add that there are other, less direct ways to manage the task. There are design advantages to set rotation, it does make certain things easier for developers, but I maintain that the downsides of not having set rotation can all be mitigated given enough developer attention, while the downsides that having set rotation impose upon the freedom of deck construction, while abstract and not obvious to newer (and even some experienced) players, simply have no solution, other than accepting that the art of deck building becomes a mere shadow of what it could be.

 

[Frost753]

I definitely won't pretend to have defended my claim about set rotation. The discussion gets really involved and probably isn't relevant to this thread. To put forward just the slightest glimpse of an argument, I would not deny that all else being held constant, rotating out sets is an option by which bomb decks can be forcibly removed from competition. I would just add that there are other, less direct ways to manage the task. There are design advantages to set rotation, it does make certain things easier for developers, but I maintain that the downsides of not having set rotation can all be mitigated given enough developer attention, while the downsides that having set rotation impose upon the freedom of deck construction, while abstract and not obvious to newer (and even some experienced) players, simply have no solution, other than accepting that the art of deck building becomes a mere shadow of what it could be.

This game is one of my favourites. My approach to this game is to use an efficient communication system with my teammate. One person will play offensively (try to collect 4 of a kind as soon as possible), while the other will play defensively (try to count who is collecting which card to call "block kemps"). I enjoy playing defence. Furthermore, if teammates can discreetly communicate when they have 3 of a kind and which card they are looking for, the other teammate will know when his partner completes his 4 of a kind. It's also crucial to know which cards have been "trashed" so you don't end up with a four-of-a-kind you can't use.

 

[Aloisius]

Another new set coming just now in MTG ARENA

 

[ypspidsi]

HearthStone is the only card game I have ever enjoyed in my life. I found out about it when I was younger. It was in the first month it was released. I have enjoyed playing it, but the biggest problem in this video game is that you need to donate a lot of money after every update if you want to win the meta. I also enjoy playing solitaire. I always play online-solitaire.com because it is available on my mobile phone, so I can play it while I am on the bus, which is a good method to kill some time and be entertained.

 

[Aloisius]

HearthStone is the only card game I ever enjoyed in my life

try MTG Arena - it's bombe!!

 

[Frost753]

I played the Yu-Gi-Oh! TCG for at least eight years. I, like most duelists, complained regularly about the developers' game design choices. However, it wasn't until long after I had quit playing that I gradually came to appreciate, through contrast with Hearthstone and even games in other genres, that Yu-Gi-Oh got a lot of very fundamental aspects of game design right, in a way that few other games have managed. The main problem with Yu-Gi-Oh was that its marketing-focused card design choices consistently deprived the game of any semblance of balance; broken cards would repeatedly get printed and do harm to the game for a while before being forbidden, but by then new broken cards had come into existence, leaving the game feeling like it was always just a few forbidden list changes away from permitting its rich mechanical structure to shine through and allow the game to be great.

In reality, I wager there were actually, at any given time, many more layers of problematic card design hiding beneath the metagame than were perceived. Eventually the power creep, necessary in some measure but artificially accelerated to enhance sales, got so bad that it changed the nature of the game drastically, to the extent that the outcome of many if not most duels was decided by the end of the first turn, and when games did actually play out a bit, the differential in advantage between drawing and not drawing certain cards was absolutely massive, i.e., "if I topdeck a Pendulum Monster I can Special Summon five monsters for free and attack you for 15000, but if I don't draw one I can't do anything." So Yu-Gi-Oh today is sort of like a delicious cake covered with distasteful icing, which has now been spread over the cake so many times that the icing occupies more overall volume than the cake.

At some point I want to make a very long post about what broad game design principles I feel Entropia needs to proceed, and I would probably dive a lot deeper into Yu-Gi-Oh's game design as a springboard for thought, but to vaguely assert at least one of the fundamental things Yu-Gi-Oh got right, the developers never seemed to become so hyperfocused on the newcomer experience, at least at the scale common in today's development, for the game itself to become an afterthought. As a concrete example, Pokemon crystal cheats are what help you complete your journey and win a lot of gifts throughout the game. Yu-Gi-Oh never implemented set rotation, a mechanic which I will state without proof (the arguments are far from concise) makes the newcomer experience slightly more straightforward, but is an immense, in my opinion deal-breaking net negative overall. They have also generally opted for simplifying the game via curation, and by explaining mechanics through more natural phrasings/metaphors, as opposed to via omission of those mechanics, as opposed to many game designer who start hacking away at a game's rich mechanical structure when marketing/newcomer experience constraints necessitate simplification.

Personally, I think Wizards should have produced a show about playing the game. Just the tale of some pals learning the game and getting better over time.

A common MTG experience might be the focus of an episode, such as unwrapping a sweet mythic, being duped by a sly, seasoned player, realising that your deck is subpar and taking action to fix it, dealing with that jerk at your LGS, or attending an event and getting your shit kicked in because, surprise! You are not the one picked since this is real life.

Instead of games that determine the fate of the universe or such such constantly rising tournament storylines, you know, a honest representation of the game and its community.