Clarification about Entropia banking operations

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I'm really not in the frame of mind to put anymore though into this bullshit so i'll just copy a post i made in another thread


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The whole statement is 'pro' private loaning with warnings that it's just a trade and then in the last para they call u guys scammers!

This is a obcene.

Everyone knows this type of loan is a trust trade and tradeback. You guys are working within the parmeters of the game design and doing nothing wrong.

MA need to make the banking system so good that this type of trust loan wouldn't even get of the ground, not ban people who use initiative.

This statement just shows how little the bank owners are getting for their money.
 
Rather than run around like Chicken Little decrying that MA is being unnecessarily harsh about unauthorized loans, look at it from MA's view:

  • An unsecured loan system is begging for complaints.
  • When those complaints occur, the only authority anyone can turn to is MA.
  • MA will tell them "Sorry, all trades are final."
  • Injured party complains publically, may even take their marbles and leave.
  • MA doesn't make money when people take their PEDS and leave.

<edited for brevity

Hello,

I'd like to address your list if I may.
1. An unsecured system is a user-be-ware system and based soley on the trust of the ava's is question. However the system is already set up to ensure that the user is aware that no safety exists in trades and that all trades are considered final sales by MA.
2. MA has always been the only authority - no change here.
3. Again - No change
4. This is always an option for players and occurs for other reasons as well. Player turn over (or churn) is common and planed for by MA.
5. Actually MA does make money when players leave. There is a fee for withdrawl of funds.

Grounder
 
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Hello,

I'd like to address your list if I may.

Grounder

I didn't say there was a change - I think MA realized that a previously virgin market (other than Telik's Loan Service) was going to heat up. Rather than deal with the backlash and possible boot-dropping later, they decided to drop the boot now.

I'll amend my statement by noting that MA earns more by having you play than by having you leave.
 
wtf?????? :confused:

bravo MA bravo!!!

So you don't want to discourage??? LOL

:bs:

I am discouraged even if i am not "that active" anymore.

pffff.....


:poke:

wrong move MA, wrong move...

Kyl
 
With the objective glasses:

1) In real life how easy is it to be allowed to legally borrow money to people unless you are yes... a bank. Private people loaning money to others is not allowed in alot of countries that i know of, but i might be wrong please correct me if so. (Talking "real bank activity" here, not 2 people doing private loans vs security on a friendly basis from time to time)
2) Ma auctioned exclusive 2year banking rights, check the word in the dictionary and then tell me your surprised theyre protecting highend investors.
3) The ACS stocks well have to wait on an official comment from MA on before we know for sure i guess, but they are shares in one of the exclusive banks that ma sold, and unless Anshe and associates turns out to be "morons of the year" i kinda doubt she didnt clear it with MA before setting that deal up... time will tell i guess...

On a personal note:
Im not saying i dont want max competition ingame to get the best deal as a customer using a "service" offered by a bank/private enterprise, nor am i belitteling the amounts or work made by the private entrepeneurs that was trying to get some business going, we need that in EU for sure in general, but what did those that started/was going to start "outside the MA-system" businesses expect? You cant really be surprised now can you...

edit: ... Read a few posts in other threads and HUGE mistake from MA saying it was "ok" then changing it... Missed that before typing first part of post sorry... Please be consistant on your statements MA, this way i can truly see how some have got to be pissed atm... bad form.
 
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We do not wish to discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe, but based on experiences from community feedback and support case history, unfortunately not all entrepreneurs offering loaning services are trustworthy members of the Entropia Universe and therefore we need to be strict in our policies in order to protect the community from scams and cheating.

Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.

i would rather trust teilk and akoz rather than any of the licensed banks. so if MA tells me that teilk, akoz and cindy are scammers i would also consider the licensed banks a scam.

then again... what do you expect... :hammer:

i thought all trades was final...
does more money mean more hypocrisy?

why not focus on the REAL scams instead

does this that every single loan outside the banks are considered scamming? id better watch my back next time i ask my team make for 1k ammo then.
where is the line drawn?

nice how MA choose to insult their customers.
 
"Raider heißt jetzt Twix, sonst ändert sich nix!" .. was a slogan on German TV for the renaming of a product.

A Loan Service is now a "Buy and Sell Service". "We buy your item and gurantie that you can buy it back within 3 weeks. But if you like to buy it, respect that we sell it for 5% more than you sold it to us". This is no Loan Service, its Buy and Sell. All trades are final...

Will MA this call a "Scamm"? If, they better close the auction and ban every single "reseller". Because trading is a scamm now..:laugh:
 
totally crazy, basically from now on everyone who lends out an item for collateral is a scammer. How on earth are you going to seperate between lending, selling or loaning ? And I can understand that those pawnshops have invested money for a license, still you deny thousands of players who put in so much money a secure lending system or item ownership.
Maybe it's just a preview to what chinese democracy is gonna bring us ?
 
and is a pawn service considered the same as a loan service?
 
So, unapproved loan services are considered scams, but when you loan someone something and don't get it back, it's just a trade - not a scam - and they won't (notice won't is not the same as can't) do shit for you.

What a load of fucking shit. :mad:
 
so will this apply to all loans between parties where a security is given, and rigorously enforced? i see the landlord hanger owners and pilots having some trouble here.

and how will it be enforced? just how do you tell betweeen a loan and a trade? :confused: what if its advertised as a item borrowing service? Gamers Knab can offer to use your items while you sleep for a small fee, offering some security to you while it is in their care ;)

ffs, why not do something about the actual scammers instead? no, of course not becuase its nothing more than state sponsored protectionism. Just like real economies i suppose...
 
so will this apply to all loans between parties where a security is given, and rigorously enforced? i see the landlord hanger owners and pilots having some trouble here.

and how will it be enforced? just how do you tell betweeen a loan and a trade? :confused: what if its advertised as a item borrowing service? Gamers Knab can offer to use your items while you sleep for a small fee, offering some security to you while it is in their care ;)

You know, your right.. I demand that MA enforce this new rule evenly across all aspects of EU. Go for it.
 
Clarification about Entropia banking operations
04 June 2007

Since we released news about the virtual banking licenses, several questions regarding loan services and banking affairs within Entropia Universe have been raised. The main concern has been the lending of items for interest. We feel that we need to clarify our policy about this.

Recently MindArk PE AB issued official virtual banking licenses. These licenses comprise a secured bank system for processing loans and securities in the form of items. All transactions made via this official bank system, such as loans, defaults, securities, interest etc., are safe and as such guaranteed by MindArk.

By contrast, loan services offered outside this official bank system cannot be guaranteed by MindArk. If an item is exchanged between avatars, this transaction will be logged as a regular TRADE. And as all trades are final, MindArk will not investigate claims if a loan giving avatar refuses to return items or money.Many people do not fully understand the true value of their virtual items until they are lost. They will then contact MindArk PE AB for assistance and will realize that we cannot help them; this can cause a lot of unnecessary grief and frustration.

We do not wish to discourage entrepreneurship within Entropia Universe, but based on experiences from community feedback and support case history, unfortunately not all entrepreneurs offering loaning services are trustworthy members of the Entropia Universe and therefore we need to be strict in our policies in order to protect the community from scams and cheating.

Therefore, any loan services offered outside the approved bank system will be considered by MindArk as scam attempts and the avatar offering such services risk a permanent lockdown of his/her account.



Originally Posted Here



Apologies for being cynical, but I thought the entire EULA says that MA can't guarantee anything. Correct me if I am wrong.
 
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Maybe it's just a preview to what chinese democracy is gonna bring us ?

haha ... so right :)

Anyway, all those responses. It surprises me MA (Marco) hasn't reacted yet. I bet it is not all that clear to them too.

More like, we will not stop you but as soon we get 1 complaint you are locked.
 
Statement like that probably does more bad than good to "banks" and EU especially when it hits media outside EF.
 
haha ... so right :)

Anyway, all those responses. It surprises me MA (Marco) hasn't reacted yet. I bet it is not all that clear to them too.

More like, we will not stop you but as soon we get 1 complaint you are locked.

Looks to me more like if you try to compete with the banks, they will slap you down, complaints or not (all scammers, etc.).
 
but they are shares in one of the exclusive banks that ma sold,

they most certainly are not. they are unofficial, unsecured fake stocks. in fact, the scheme fits into the description MA provided - just replace the word "loan" with "securites".

of course, there currently are no licences for stock brokerage within EU. the exchange and terminals still exist though, so a reasonable conclusion is that MA does intend on having this functionality - in a secured, official manner.

the fake stocks have no voting power and no value other than that which you yourself may put on it. buy one for 1, sell it for 1.05, buy it again at 1.1 sell it again at 1.25. add to the hype about how great it is. it's re-seller heaven.

in the meantime, anshe recovers her investment and rakes in a whole pile of cash as profit. she laughs at all the stupid investors who paid her money to accept a free pawn shop in EU. a free pawn shop that can only make more money - even if it is only a little.
 
Looks to me more like if you try to compete with the banks, they will slap you down, complaints or not (all scammers, etc.).

Agreed... Just MA being "bombastic" in their statements like usual?
Still a shitty way to put it making it seems like everyone is @risk instead of specifying it out.
 
Shame on you MA :(

But then you showed your true colours which is a good thing. You hate anybody who makes any money in this game unless they are in your millionaires club and on your FL.

Free enterprise is not a spaceship in Star Trek you know?

soundboy
 
they most certainly are not. they are unofficial, unsecured fake stocks. in fact, the scheme fits into the discription MA provided - just replace the word "loan" with "securites".

of course, there currently are no licences for stock brokerage within EU. the exchange and terminals still exist though, so a reasonable conclusion is that MA does intend on having this functionality - in a secured, official manner.

the fake stocks have no voting power and no value other than that which you yourself may put on it. buy one for 1, sell it for 1.05, buy it again at 1.1 sell it again at 1.25. add to the hype about how great it is. it's re-seller heaven.

in the meantime, anshe recovers her investment and rakes in a whole pile of cash as profit. she laughs at all the stupid investors who paid her money to accept a free pawn shop in EU. a free pawn shop that can only make more money - even if it is only a little.

Hence my "guess we'll have to wait for an official statement on it from MA before we know exactly wtf is going on there" part of post?
 
Hence my "guess we'll have to wait for an official statement on it from MA before we know exactly wtf is going on there" part of post?

yeah. although, I suspect that they're not going to say anything about it for fear of offending one of their high profile customers.

I wonder what would happen if someone else stared such a fund. the rules seems to be often selectively enforced.

if I was one of the mall owners, I'd certainly give it a go.
 
What MA really need to do is implement a basic secure player-to-player loaning system for everyone to use.
 
from this i can conclude but one thing:
MA is serious about enforcing the 'exclusive' pawnshop rights.
As there is virtually no difference between pvp loaning and the use of a virtual bank (and this statement is reinforced by this MA statement), they somehow have to stop CBE et alii - to enforce the exclusiveness of the 'banking' licences.
This basically means MA further limits the rights of other participants, just to give them to a 'chosen' few that paid them with hard cash.

roflol, draw your own conclusions about the road this 'universe' is taking. Just one thought: When will they auction exclusive hunting licences?
 
We dont need Bank!
We can just use Pawnshops, a pawnshop is not a bank! And should not violate the exclusive bank rights.
 
Shame on you MA :(

But then you showed your true colours which is a good thing. You hate anybody who makes any money in this game unless they are in your millionaires club and on your FL.

Free enterprise is not a spaceship in Star Trek you know?

soundboy

Not entirely accurate, but close. You dont have to be part of the big money club, you just have to cut them in on the action..
 
The real question is :
Will anshe pay back the IPO , or will she get baned soon ?
 
The real question is :
Will anshe pay back the IPO , or will she get baned soon ?


Anshe is paying a fee for every loan she does.. but I hope she is banned for scamming the general population with fake shares in an overvalued enterprise. She wont be though.. MA wants her to buy a new improved LA when they are released...


( Hell, if I am an "attempted scammer" by word of MA for trying to offer the same service without the expensive building, then selling shares in an unregulated field has to be a scam, right?)
 
So, unapproved loan services are considered scams, but when you loan someone something and don't get it back, it's just a trade - not a scam - and they won't (notice won't is not the same as can't) do shit for you.

What a load of fucking shit. :mad:


Good point. TBH i think they kinda spoke before they thought. Should really be more delicate right now than that.
 
Anshe is paying a fee for every loan she does.. but I hope she is banned for scamming the general population with fake shares in an overvalued enterprise. She wont be though.. MA wants her to buy a new improved LA when they are released...

As far as i know , the "IPO" and "Share" are exactly like "loan" and she does not pay fee on that , neither its made though the MA aprouved bank system.
So , i do say its a scam , exactly as "your bank" system.
No more , no less.
And , if she does not pay back player from herself , as she can be complian to that rule, i bet lots of player will love to report her for scaming attenpt...
 
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