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Suggestion: Clean the game from Alts.

The difference, in your example, is that the 4 friends are each one having their own account which is different than 1 player having 4 accounts.
Personnally i don't see problem to have student house or famillies playing at same adress, it's reason why i think they wouldn't have problem to verify their ID...
 
Johaoninho90 said:
The difference, in your example, is that the 4 friends are each one having their own account which is different than 1 player having 4 accounts.
Personnally i don't see problem to have student house or famillies playing at same adress, it's reason why i think they wouldn't have problem to verify their ID...
Click to expand...

I really think you are taking the situation too personally. Can you name an incident where you personally felt cheated by an alt? Because I've never seemed to have a problem, I never had to pay mind to that.
 
Hello,

I didn't read all post but trying to fight against alt account is like trying to remove all the water from earth, you can't.
Because when you put a rule, they will find 10 ways for still playing with alts.

I remember when i was at orthos oil rig, i saw every days players with 1 agi and 0 tp coming at rig to pick up oil.
They came, said nothing and already knew what to do.
I don't know if it was to limited alt account but MA closed this rig few years later.

For me until they spend money ingame it's ok, i know it's not really fair but we have to play with...
If i have to choose, i prefer an alt who spend money ingame than a trader who do nothing but just making money in your head.

Leya
 
Msturlese said:
what is different?
Click to expand...

You have a good point, but you're missing the larger picture. Aside from getting extra auction slots for free, having alts allows you to exploit loot mechanics, including lootwaves, which means while you will get 1 rare drop per week doing one thing, a family of 12 will get 12 rare drops doing the same thing. You see the difference now?
 
Basically I think it is simple: shared or mixed accounts typically constantly share gear to minimize the investment and maximise the profits right?

Should be easy to track repeating gear switches between multiple accounts.
Programming-wise it is easier to check it if it is only 2 accounts that participate, but it isn't that hard.
If the same expensive item (item-ID) regularly leaves a certain account, and regularly appears in another certain account, it could be flagged.

It's still ok if you lend your fap to a friend for a seasonal event for sure, but multiple flags should raise questions.
 
Crabby said:
I really think you are taking the situation too personally. Can you name an incident where you personally felt cheated by an alt? Because I've never seemed to have a problem, I never had to pay mind to that.
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I don't take the situation too personally so...no I can't name an incident where I personnally felt cheated by an alt.
But indirectly, I sell what I sweat, and it pisses me off a bit to see that some are using alts to get their own sweat...Or Alts ready to sell cheaper than everyone else in order to make 10 20ped per day out of it...As the post above just said, alts are taking slots that shoud be left to nobody or left to active and honnest players.
 
Johaoninho90 said:
I don't take the situation too personally so...no I can't name an incident where I personnally felt cheated by an alt.
But indirectly, I sell what I sweat, and it pisses me off a bit to see that some are using alts to get their own sweat...Or Alts ready to sell cheaper than everyone else in order to make 10 20ped per day out of it...As the post above just said, alts are taking slots that shoud be left to nobody or left to active and honnest players.
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Youre suggesting the game asks people for government issued identification, which is on the personal side just to play a video game. The game is free to play, and the reason for that is that it makes it easy to try. When you have to provide an ID to a video game just to play that rids of the easy to try hook. As a matter of fact I know a lot people who live life without any sort of identifying documentation :unsure:, so that would be tough luck for them no? Also, imagine trying to get a friend to try the game and they are asked for personal ID, that would really set off alarms in their mind. Player retention is bad enough, and I do think the community (this forum specifically) isnt helping at all in that regard. So why should MA shoot themselves in the foot like that when people will just add salt to that wound?

If youre having trouble selling your sweat its likely because you are trying to sell it for too high. There is so much sweat that sweaters are holding onto (and i mean so so much), and there are people willing to let it go for less. That is your competition, that is the free market. I don't think alts are your problem. You want to convert your sweat into PED. So if youre producing more sweat than you can sell, where does the issue reside in that process? If you feel like your time is worth more than what youre getting for sweat then it may be time to consider exploring other opportunities/options. Im pretty certain most people with several PCs, or one strong enough to run several VMs with EU to sweat don't think its worth their time or equipment. And should have the means to make PED through other activities.
 
I agree Mindark needs to purge this alt issue.
I have seen MANY use alts and macro to farm skills to add to their main avas or sell them.

Go back to faxing Id and SS and Birth certificates to get ingame and Gold card. There was never a issue.

Problem is: PP and MA see macroing and alts as revenue if they skill/hunt/EP4 and thet get cash..why would that change?
 
Naomi said:
Basically I think it is simple: shared or mixed accounts typically constantly share gear to minimize the investment and maximise the profits right?

Should be easy to track repeating gear switches between multiple accounts.
Programming-wise it is easier to check it if it is only 2 accounts that participate, but it isn't that hard.
If the same expensive item (item-ID) regularly leaves a certain account, and regularly appears in another certain account, it could be flagged.

It's still ok if you lend your fap to a friend for a seasonal event for sure, but multiple flags should raise questions.
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The only thing with this is legitimate lending. In our soc we a have a player who is right at the top of his category limit for mayhem. He has a gun which he is trying to tier up, but he will only use it during mayhem. Over the last year he has lent it out to other players in the soc to build up the tiers for him. This is a legitimate lend, MA may view this as being lent out to an ALT,
 
Mindark lets Virrtualsense share a mule account that has a mothership among the folks in their society, and DME, DS9 or whatever alt she's logged in today has had many multiple account Planet and Mindark sanctioned for a long time before working as an employee for a Planet Partner under the guise of 'reporting'. Similar instances are everywhere along the history of the game where Mindark let high ranking or low ranking societies share accounts and use alts. Even the bank system created an alt for bank owners so they don't have to be at the bank all the time on one of their main accounts... so it's subtly encouraged by Mindark and emulated by many other than employees even though Mindark support says otherwise... There's been efforts in the past to get folks like Neverdie to stop playing on his dead wife's account, and things like that but Mindark can't and won't stop it unless somoene manipulates the economy enough to get more than 50 support tickets against them.... and then it's only going to give a slap on the hand for a short time but won't track it after that so it' continues the next year. It's been like this since the beginning. There are many, many, many examples out there that have been publicly documented or are very easy to see just by searching player registry, but Mindark doesn't care so why should we. Yes, it's not fair since Mindark says not everyone can do it, but it is what it is. It's just a part of the Entropia Experience, just like scammers, resellers, etc.
 
Crabby said:
Youre suggesting the game asks people for government issued identification, which is on the personal side just to play a video game. The game is free to play, and the reason for that is that it makes it easy to try. When you have to provide an ID to a video game just to play that rids of the easy to try hook. As a matter of fact I know a lot people who live life without any sort of identifying documentation :unsure:, so that would be tough luck for them no? Also, imagine trying to get a friend to try the game and they are asked for personal ID, that would really set off alarms in their mind. Player retention is bad enough, and I do think the community (this forum specifically) isnt helping at all in that regard. So why should MA shoot themselves in the foot like that when people will just add salt to that wound?

If youre having trouble selling your sweat its likely because you are trying to sell it for too high. There is so much sweat that sweaters are holding onto (and i mean so so much), and there are people willing to let it go for less. That is your competition, that is the free market. I don't think alts are your problem. You want to convert your sweat into PED. So if youre producing more sweat than you can sell, where does the issue reside in that process? If you feel like your time is worth more than what youre getting for sweat then it may be time to consider exploring other opportunities/options. Im pretty certain most people with several PCs, or one strong enough to run several VMs with EU to sweat don't think its worth their time or equipment. And should have the means to make PED through other activities.
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You don't pay to verify ID and your IP so it would stay a FREE game.
Why would a suspect account not want to verify his ID ? Something to hide maybe!?
I didn't make this thread because of my personnal interests and experience in Entropia and it's not because i said that i sell what i sweat that I only do this, so please don't talk like you know me...:rolleyes:
How many players I met, was acting and lying like they are freshly new starters, and after some chat, they ended asking me to help them trading one account to their account.
Their reasons (lies) are: This was my old account, This was my wife account, bla bla..


edit
I have also story, when I entered the Ministry society, there was a player that was in soc since long time, and was friendly with all members.
One day I saw this player was at an isolated TP on calypso with a famous pirate at that time.
I asked ,a bit with fun and curiosity, in soc chat: " why do you speak with the pirate." She ended saying the pirate was her boyfriend. No one knew that, imagine you play 3 years with someone liying and hiding things. I don't belive it was a girl friend, i strongly believe it was an alt, spying and abusing ppl the soc.
 
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Johaoninho90 said:
Hello,

I suggest Entropia Universe to start fighting ALTS exploiters,

I don't know if that's possible, but if the game could ban all players using VPN or any type of IP changer, and ask all accounts with same IP adress to verify their idendites in order to proove they are differents users in same house, i believe a % of alts will radically disapear.
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Johaoninho90 way u speak smells Suspicious i think u are one of the Imposters.

Personally love the Alts makes game more interesting,u can allways try to guess who is behind that alt..if u have some spider sense.

Also care what u wish ;)


Screenshot-4.png
 
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Johaoninho90 said:
You don't pay to verify ID and your IP so it would stay a FREE game.
Why would a suspect account not want to verify his ID ? Something to hide maybe!?
I didn't make this thread because of my personnal interests and experience in Entropia and it's not because i said that i sell what i sweat that I only do this, so please don't talk like you know me...:rolleyes:
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I never said it wasn't gonna still be free to play, but the easy to try hook that comes with being a free to play game would be diminished.
Don't worry what other people are doing, use your own intuition and exercise it. That will serve you far better in the long run. You cant even enforce that stuff, what's stopping people from borrowing other people's ID? If you want to feel 'safe' you gotta take responsibility for that and use instinct and common sense. There are people who don't use alts that will abuse you if the opportunity presents themselves.

WildStar said:
Johaoninho90 way u speak smells Suspicious i think u are one of the Imposters.

Personally love the Alts makes game more interesting,u can allways try to guess who is behind that alt..if u have some spider sense.

Also care what u wish ;)
Click to expand...

If you actually played the game instead of buying UL stuff at normal or high prices only to turn around and try to make someone else overpay for it, you would know one is a team name.
 
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Crabby said:
I never said it wasn't gonna still be free to play, but the easy to try hook that comes with being a free to play game would be diminished.
Click to expand...
This is where a tiered approach comes in. Just to play, to try out the game and see if its for you, ie in Thule, no verification required. When you want to leave there and join the real cash economy, then you need to be verified.

It doesn't seem all that extreme! Even some of the most basic free apps require verification.
 
Thx for all concern about my knowlage of entropia tracker appreciate it greatly !


Crabby said:
I never said it wasn't gonna still be free to play, but the easy to try hook that comes with being a free to play game would be diminished.
Don't worry what other people are doing, use your own intuition and exercise it. That will serve you far better in the long run. You cant even enforce that stuff, what's stopping people from borrowing other people's ID? If you want to feel 'safe' you gotta take responsibility for that and use instinct and common sense. There are people who don't use alts that will abuse you if the opportunity presents themselves.



If you actually played the game instead of buying UL stuff at normal or high prices only to turn around and try to make someone else overpay for it, you would know one is a team name.
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About avatars witch had appeard from backass of nowhere sharing their vast knowlage to everyone with 5 post on their avatars i see you .U little forum red knight warriors make alot of sense in this world and are needed to be heard i support your work.

Apart from making forum post like u meta skilled with mod fap in swamp in 2003.making avatars to claim that bonus tutorial 10 peds on start..that u even have speed runs competiton on discord ? u have my support.

P.S tipe Alina in User Register
On serious side im down for no alt maybe that Twin Peaks mayhem vendor would last longer.
 
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Alainax said:
This is where a tiered approach comes in. Just to play, to try out the game and see if its for you, ie in Thule, no verification required. When you want to leave there and join the real cash economy, then you need to be verified.

It doesn't seem all that extreme! Even some of the most basic free apps require verification.
Click to expand...

It seems pretty extreme to me considering its lack of mobs and infrastructure at thule. Idk what apps youre using but ive never ever been asked for an ID to play a game. That's intrusive to ask of a new player. You may not see that because you are an established player already. Free to play should be hassle free, oh but wait ID needed? People will walk away.
 
WildStar said:
Thx for all concern about my knowlage of entropia tracker appreciate it greatly !



About avatars witch had appeard from backass of family alabama basement sharing their vast knowlage to everyone with 5 post on their avatars i see you .U little forum red knight warriors make alot of sense in this world and are needed to be heard i support your work.

Crabby apart from making forum post like u meta skilled with mod fap in swamp in 2003.I heard u making avatars to claim that bonus tutorial 10 peds on start..that u even have speed runs competiton on discord ? u have my support.

P.S tipe Alina in User Register
On serious side im down for no alt maybe that Twin Peaks mayhem vendor would last longer.
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You sound plastered, Idk what point you were trying to get across but ok lol.
 
I want to thanks all of you for sharing your opinions, ideas and suggestions on this thread.

Conclusion, It clearly seems to be a complicated task to clean the game from Alts.

Looks like that the game mostly fight Alts when they receive support cases from other players pointing the alts, or when a player withdraws certain amount of money, the game investigates...

So yeah, no more choices than accepting that they exist, and hoping to see them being kicked banned in futur.

Sometimes it seems obvious that we are facing alts, and indeed we are not always able to tell 100% guaranted that our intuiton is correct.
 
Johaoninho90 said:
I want to thanks all of you for sharing your opinions, ideas and suggestions on this thread.

Conclusion, It clearly seems to be a complicated task to clean the game from Alts.

Looks like that the game mostly fight Alts when they receive support cases from other players pointing the alts, or when a player withdraws certain amount of money, the game investigates...

So yeah, no more choices than accepting that they exist, and hoping to see them being kicked banned in futur.

Sometimes it seems obvious that we are facing alts, and indeed we are not always able to tell 100% guaranted that our intuiton is correct.
Click to expand...
was an intresting thread to read in :)
 
1. Expand/improve Thule (i hope all new players start there and then move to planet of being born on?)
2. Allow exit but without ID verification disable PVE and PVP trading
3. To enable PVP trading you need to link your account + ID + bank/cc card

Run this criteria/script on whole EU population

90% alts off :D
 
In my opinion, I see many 'caves" being used as botter and macro paradises. When I especially see certain Globals and HoF's it is almost a joke amongst players who see them. ;)
Then player will run back to PCF and post their Meta or level achieved and it truly is bad form.
With that being said, I know many players create alts to farm skill and rewards/META and either 'chip up' and post their ill gotten gains and expect a 'high five."
 
Thorns Rose said:
In my opinion, I see many 'caves" being used as botter and macro paradises. When I especially see certain Globals and HoF's it is almost a joke amongst players who see them. ;)
Then player will run back to PCF and post their Meta or level achieved and it truly is bad form.
With that being said, I know many players create alts to farm skill and rewards/META and either 'chip up' and post their ill gotten gains and expect a 'high five."
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FACTS!!! I agree with Rose 100%. " Rose, there is nothing in this world that makes me proud as to watch you run into a mob and take it on with all the pride you do to achieve your personal goal or achievement you are striving for. Means you do it without having to afk hunt.
 
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Thorns Rose said:
In my opinion, I see many 'caves" being used as botter and macro paradises. When I especially see certain Globals and HoF's it is almost a joke amongst players who see them. ;)
Then player will run back to PCF and post their Meta or level achieved and it truly is bad form.
With that being said, I know many players create alts to farm skill and rewards/META and either 'chip up' and post their ill gotten gains and expect a 'high five."
Click to expand...
It isnt just caves, though pupugis certainly have become for an increasing number of players the place to park their avatar when they go to work or sleep - but in general any spawn that exists in game clean of other mob types or interruptions is build for the endless easy grind - practically like a crafting terminal just out in the open.
Mindark of course wants to maximize income (and they should for the better and improvement of our universe) but they need to find the right balance between motiviating players to cycle and rewarding in a way that entertains the active players (like RDI/halloween survival/tezlapod waves that come with different targets challenges).
As long as the most repetitive activity also gives the best rewards (in skill or loot) there will always be an incentive for players to find a way to maximize this type of gain - but if for example special skill rewards or items/rare components werent just for endless grinding but for completing challenging wave events/missions that have different targets and may need multiple smart players to complete then we might see less bots and/or multiaccounts(as one can only really play good on one account).
But lets not forget mindark tried to mitigate botting to some degree when they made weapons have less and less TT lasting shorter and shorter before they break, they used to have spread out spawns with lots of different mob types mixed and for clean spawns you had to go to LA's and pay a tax but then you saw planet partners building distinct spawns with trade and repairterminal / revive right next to them and more and more TP's getting added everywhere so portable tt and repairs was introduced to fix what had been limited at first/second and it brought us back to the endless grind (especially with instances).

Nevertheless a bot is way less efficient then a real player - if you consider using pills and optimising killspeed to not stand around and assuming the player knows what she/he is doing and how to be better. Nothing beats knowledge in entropia.

IMO the best way for mindark to ensure we have no alt accounts would be to require linking them to our realworld bankaccounts - banks have already IDed us which safes mindark the trouble/time/ressources and since this is a RCE game where many hope to withdraw one day why would players not do it ?

Once mindark has ensured that every real player only has one account then they could provide a verification process to communication platforms outside of entropia eg. link pcf account to game account, discord account to game account, etc and have member areas on the official forum and discord servers and an open /rookie section for questions - this would drain alot of toxicity of the game and platforms dealing with the game if those who use them can be held responsible for what they say and do.
 
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Most of these botters aren't exactly genius'es its pretty easy to tell who they are even asa regular player, for MA it would be trivial. problem is an avatar running 24/7 is a dream come true for MA so why should they care if someone is afk shooting pupugi 24/7 but would be cool for them to take a sstance and make anexample out of a couple of them, nothing nuclear few mnth ban, name and shame, skill reduction or something but again why would they bother think pupugi cave shares on the entropia exchange would come first.
 
John B Knight said:
IMO the best way for mindark to ensure we have no alt accounts would be to require linking them to our realworld bankaccounts - banks have already IDed us which safes mindark the trouble/time/ressources and since this is a RCE game where many hope to withdraw one day why would players not do it ?

Once mindark has ensured that every real player only has one account then they could provide a verification process to communication platforms outside of entropia eg. link pcf account to game account, discord account to game account, etc and have member areas on the official forum and discord servers and an open /rookie section for questions - this would drain alot of toxicity of the game and platforms dealing with the game if those who use them can be held responsible for what they say and do.
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Thread is going round in circles a bit, but I completely agree with having accounts properly verified. and across all official platforms. There were several good examples earlier on in the thread on how this could be done without discouraging new players. It will drain a lot of the toxicity out of the game and issues like Alt accounts would become non existent.

There is a sad irony though that quite often those who don't understand much about it hear some stories end up accusing players who don't bot nor have alts as doing so, and rather that reporting their suspicion - they spread wild rumours around. Which in turn discourages newer players or those learning the ropes to level up, if they believe all that they hear about bots/alts. Those players who are actively playing the game without bots or alts get put in the firing line of the accusations. Damned if you do, damned if you don't kind of situation.

What's worse is quite often the strongest accusers of genuine players, tend to be either those who use many alts themselves across several platforms to troll, and also real players who support and encourage them in doing so. So we end up with this peculiar situation where genuine players get accused of one thing by people doing/supporting exactly that! Proper verified accounts would solve both issues.


I do hope MindArk take a much stronger stance on all the alt accounts across all official platforms, and all those who support trolling/lies about other players.
 
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I guess MA needs to clean up the game in many ways, not only when it comes to alts.
Mutliple users on one account are just as bad imo, same with 3rd party software, anything
that creates an unbalanced amount of interactions since this will create an unfair advantage.

On the other hand, where to draw the line for what is "unfair"?
Some few morrons think I have used botting, scripts, mutiple users and so on to reach my 538 ranks in Meta
which I haven't, I have just spent a lot of time with it. It isn't really that hard, good tactics is a must though if
it shall go fast between ranks, so only pressing F is out, you need to be active in many spawns.

I only work 50%, and quite often I have to be home from work at 100% due to the cancer and treatment I
have done, and this will continue until the day I die, so in a way I have an unfair advantage since I can spend a
lot of time ingame and that without the need to be highly efficient when doing so.
Should I be limited in my time I'm online? I doubt it will be possible to find a solution that fits all, so what
they can do is to improve the mechanics, and also make it more interesting to only have one account.

Avatar bound items is one way, but not so good in masse in a RCE. Maybe more skills should be
avatar bound?

In Sweden we have something called BankID, this is used to sign and identify yourself digitaly,
so you can sign contracts, sign deals, do taxes online and so on and so on.
BankID should be obligatory for players from Sweden imo, maybe even use it for log in if possible.

Another thing that would have been really great is that anyone who joins EU should have a certificate
from a psychotherapist that they are not a narcissists or close be one. This would improve the player
experience a lot, but probably drain the playerbase... a lot. ;)
 
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