Cost of a Warp Flight in EU

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Frequently I'm asked the question from many players, how much does it cost to perform one warp flight in EU and is it profitable to perform warp flights for just 7 PED. For the month of September, I've performed a total 438 warp flights producing 3216 PED and after expenses, I walked away with 1777.9 PED profit. Keep in mind, from the 22nd to the 25th of September, I was unable to perform warp flights due to the decrease in the number of generic fuses available but you can imagine how much PED I would have made charging 20 PED per warp flight. I purchased my first Star Finder ship on April 1st 2020 and immediately started a warp flight business. I initially started charging 20 PED per warp which was the going rate at the time. It wasn't until I started keeping track of all my expenses that I soon realized that in order for me to perform one warp flight in EU, it costs me 3.2 PED or just 32 cents USD (3 PED from decay of the warp drive and 2 PEC from oil consumption). The same warp flight that costs me 3.2 PED to perform, is the same warp flight players are being charged 20, 25 and even 30 PED.

I knew the demand for cheap warp flight within EU was beneficial to all players but unfortunately, not many players feel the same way I do as my actions have cost many players, mostly pilots, to lose out on business and revenue. There have been many campaigns to discredit me and my work. Whether it's trying to have me banned from the game, purchasing all the materials needed to craft warp drives or asking other players not to sell certain items to me, a handful of players will stop at nothing to justify a 20 PED warp flight. So yes, I can say with certainty that it is profitable to perform warp flights in EU for just 7 PED as it only costs 3.2 PED to perform a single warp flight.
 

Granny Rowan

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This maths is far from complete. You have not taken into account any of the following 'expenses' or business considerations.

1. A warp in a privateer or MS does not cost 3 ped, it costs 3 ped TT... what about the MU on the drive, or MU on the materials if they make their own drives.
2. Oil usage TT is not the same as oil cost as again ignores MU.
3. The owner will need to get to and from the ship unless remaining in space constantly so will have fuel usage and thruster decay (x 2) including MU of thruster
4. Unless an owner has been fortunate enough to purchase a high SI ship, they will probably be spending ped upgrading in order to better protect their customers, unless ofc they don't care if they and customer are shot down. In which case I would advise against using that service.
5. Time is money as the old adage says.. so given that most passengers keep an owner busy for at least 15 minutes and some space newbs may tire you up for 30 mins plus, then your profit margin is frankly ridiculous.
6. For a mothership and some privateers (especially when pirates are active, as they doubtless will be again) there will also be gunnery expenses and perhaps payments to gunner/repair crew to support the safety of the ship.
7. Return on investment: when any business supplies a service and invests in capital equipment then they expect not unreasonably to make a profit.
8. Factor in also time spent spamming, watching chats for customers, chatting to customers ( not always with success) and the profit per hour spent suddenly looks non-existent.

If you wish to work for zero ped ad infinitum, good luck to you
But if you want a sustainable business that gives you a moderate return on the ped you invested then 7 ped is sheer folly.
 

qnaqnapow

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Nice perspectives up there.

My thought is,

1000ped maybe nothing for a big company, but could be something for a local small shop owner who does everything by himself
 

Alainax

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Not really in the VIP service myself, our business model is very different, however I am curious - are you charging 7 ped all in or per jump? The reason I ask is afaik the 20pedders dont often charge for the jump to get there ( I may be wrong ofc). So if they get a request whilst on caly of "RT-ARK" they charge the 20 ped. That's potentially 4 jumps. caly-rt-ark-caly. So even not factoring in all the additional expenses and outlay Granny has noted above, the multiple jump aspect of it would give them what, 7 ped after half an hours work. Do you charge for multiple jumps? Or would you be doing the above scenario at a loss ( 13 ped cost, 7 ped ticket).

I think the cost of the ship should be a factor. The way someone who owns a 100k fap can asked to be paid for their time, I think the same should be true of ships.


Our sub and multipass model result in warps for 3 ped or less, so this doesn't really impact us.
 

Granny Rowan

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Most ships will charge a pick up fee at a reduced rate, same as if asked for multiple warps it is usually full price for first, but reduced price for subsequent warps. But given they still have the warp expense and time for their service then this is not unreasonable.
 

atomicstorm

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Did you start your tracking before or after the attempt at price fixing at a HIGHER price than the one you are now railing against? Asking for a friend.
 
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Konvicted

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I think you should round it up to 10ped..
I used your service before and i cant see myself pay less than atleast a dollar ticket
 

mspatterson

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Im sorry bruce but you are not making anything at all at 7ped at 100% crafting success rates which we all know isnt the case. It is entirely possible fail 10x in a row and does happen. The wide variance of crafting costs due to not being able to do a 10,000 click run of drives makes it highly volatile and if you have any experience whatsoever you would know this.

The only warp that could possibly profit at 7ped would be equus as they have UL drive and it is only ALWAYS 3ped tt decay costs plus tiny oil/thruster.
*correction* daily warp as well possibly as they have a drastically different payment system.

Not to mention the system does not support warping at that price point, practically putting all taxi out of business and warping them instead. Youve burned up all the resources transporting those that would potentially normally use taxi and now what? Wheres the fuses? =p


Now lets talk about your business sense and the purpose of this thread!

-Running around boasting incorrect profits your making only hurts your bottom line!
-Running around killing people at PA mall only hurts your bottom line and scare's customers away and upsets shop owners!
-Trash talking and backstabbing your PEERS in space which incase you haven't counted theres 100 other ships! 90% of them could easily make your life hell without even breaking a sweat! These are not the enemies your wanting in a pvp lootable evironment. Pissing on yur neighbours isnt a smart move!

Im yet to see or hear of you do anything in entropia universe thats actually positive for anyone or even yourself! just sayin =p
 
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mspatterson

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moved to 1st post... can delete
 
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mspatterson

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moved to 1st post... can delete
 
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mspatterson

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moved to 1st post... can delete
 

xxPriestxx

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Here we go again. . . either you are deliberately trying to mislead every player in EU, or you truly lack the sense to understand a market and business. My vote is on the first.

I do need to point out a SEVERE flaw in your math, as others have. You've not factored in Markup at all for either Generic fuses, which are essential to crafting warp drives, nor MU on warp drives themselves, which at the BEST market rates over the last few months, bring your price per warp to at least 6 ped. With market prices today... much more than that.

Youre right - TT decay is 3 ped, and bonus points for you to factoring in oil cost also. But leaving out MU.... either egregiously misleading or just plain... senseless. You might want to reevaluate your profit/loss records with this in mind.

Anyway, we've all learned over the last few months it's pointless to argue with this person.

The great thing about EU is that it is a free market. People can/do choose who to fly with based on several factors and price isn't the only one. It's bad form to deliberately attempt to mislead everyone, at a weak attempt to discredit experienced and reputable captains.

Just for transparency's sake, since you've made this post. Everyone should also know that Ben attempted a few months ago to corral all the warp providers in a meeting to fix the prices of warp service (at a higher rate), failed at that, and has now been on a mission to "ruin" reputable providers in a quasi narcissistic temper tantrum. In addition to many other things, including turning his mall PVP to kill space providers upon landing. Great business model.... I can say with certainty, you've not impacted me greatly, nor anyone else.
 

mspatterson

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Priest I'd like to add to your post it wasnt just space providers he was killing at pa mall! Infact was only 1 provider I heard about the rest were clients and regular players! Which were mostly friends or friends of friends! But this is getting off topic even if mildly relative :)
 
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Last time i checked warp drive 1 had a market value of around 166%, that makes a jump 3ped tt + 2ped mu = 5ped at a minimum - even if you farm fuses yourself and craft yourself and dont care about market value of your drive, if you burn it without accounting for its market sales price you are essentially operating at a loss because you could earn more by just selling the drive.
As others have pointed out this does not account for warp mines you may hit, failed warps that end you in a different location, secondary jumps you may have to do to get to the planet of the request, gunner/repair costs in case you have to defend the ship/passenger (which of course many avoid by just logging out the passengers).
Furthermore regarding fuses:
The availability of fuses ingame was balanced by mindark to accomodate privateers and motherships as multipassenger transport ships the availability was carefully slowly increased over years to this point where we see recently price dumping that leads to 'busses' operating as 24/7 taxis burning more fuses then the market has - there will be a point at which warp flight avilability will crash because people burned up all their ressources - you probably think you have more ressources to run on then your competitors but you have no longterm experience - like with all ressources in entropia there is dry and generous periods we were on the back of a generous period and if mindarks balancing team doesnt totally throw their space concept overboard and degrades privateers/motherships to single person taxi's on demand the actual dry period is still to come and then many people will have trouble finding flights because transport providers didnt keep reserves for the dry times.
At last:
Normandie is not competing in the vip price dumping race, we still offer flights to those who need but our focus has always been to ferry multiple people at scheduled time and therefor we have no issue offering cheaper tickets eg. 6-3ped per warp on multipasses and potentially cheaper on subscriptions and 0ped for investors - beats vip prices anytime.

PS: You have so far operated in a time in which pirates have largely given up on placing warp mines, but just be aware if they start again and drop a single warp mine that can cost you an additional half a dozend jumps per day easily as well as others and that wont work well in your price calculation...nor your ability to keep a timely schedule if you are unwilling to fight them because its not part of your bussiness plan.
 
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Alukat123

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Not really in the VIP service myself, our business model is very different, however I am curious - are you charging 7 ped all in or per jump? The reason I ask is afaik the 20pedders dont often charge for the jump to get there ( I may be wrong ofc). So if they get a request whilst on caly of "RT-ARK" they charge the 20 ped. That's potentially 4 jumps. caly-rt-ark-caly. So even not factoring in all the additional expenses and outlay Granny has noted above, the multiple jump aspect of it would give them what, 7 ped after half an hours work. Do you charge for multiple jumps? Or would you be doing the above scenario at a loss ( 13 ped cost, 7 ped ticket).

I think the cost of the ship should be a factor. The way someone who owns a 100k fap can asked to be paid for their time, I think the same should be true of ships.


Our sub and multipass model result in warps for 3 ped or less, so this doesn't really impact us.
have 2 or 3 passengers with 7 PED each ticket then it's 14 PED or 21 PED at 13 PED cost.
 
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Not really in the VIP service myself, our business model is very different, however I am curious - are you charging 7 ped all in or per jump? The reason I ask is afaik the 20pedders dont often charge for the jump to get there ( I may be wrong ofc). So if they get a request whilst on caly of "RT-ARK" they charge the 20 ped. That's potentially 4 jumps. caly-rt-ark-caly. So even not factoring in all the additional expenses and outlay Granny has noted above, the multiple jump aspect of it would give them what, 7 ped after half an hours work. Do you charge for multiple jumps? Or would you be doing the above scenario at a loss ( 13 ped cost, 7 ped ticket).

I think the cost of the ship should be a factor. The way someone who owns a 100k fap can asked to be paid for their time, I think the same should be true of ships.


Our sub and multipass model result in warps for 3 ped or less, so this doesn't really impact us.
That's 7 PED per jump.
 

xxPriestxx

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r investors - beats vip prices anytime.

PS: You have so far operated in a time in which pirates have largely given up on placing warp mines, but just be aware if they start again and drop a single warp mine that can cost you an additional half a dozend jumps per day easily as well as others and that wont work well in your price calculation...nor your ability to keep a timely schedule if you are unwilling to fight them because its not part of your bussiness plan.
Not to mention his 4000 SI tincan starfinder won't last long in that scenario.

Look I really try to stay out of this stuff. I even have a rule posted in my Discord that anyone who badmouths other space providers may be removed. I don't like space politics or generally being an asshole to each other. But... you've crossed so many lines I personally do not even consider you a "legitimate" and reputable space provider. You've made it very, very clear to everyone that your sole mission is to destroy other providers when they wouldn't agree to price fixing warps at a higher price earlier this year.
 

qnaqnapow

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I do not know anything about warping ships in space.
So I write this as a customer's view.

I use both Mothership warp and VIP warp.
Mothership warp is very cheap when I use subscription, and can go down to literally 0-1ped/warp if I choose to warp back and forth everyday.
And it is true that I have to set my game schedule to the Warp service schedule in order to save peds to warp.

On the other hand, VIP service is what I use when I have nothing carried but ammo and few pills to go hunt. Especially I can use warp most of the time, when I want to warp.
In this case, I use VIP warp service to save my time flying Quad in space.

Well, 7ped vs 20-25ped. What will I choose? 7ped.

I am certain that Mothership can save my ass when they encounter pirates during service.

My question is, does VIP services with privateer & starfinders have gunners & repairers on board with them when I use VIP service?

If not, I just choose 7ped for saving my time and money.

I just want to say that this game is a Real Cash Economy game.
Compete & fight & argue however you want,
as a customer, I choose cheapest.
 

xxPriestxx

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I do not know anything about warping ships in space.
So I write this as a customer's view.

I use both Mothership warp and VIP warp.
Mothership warp is very cheap when I use subscription, and can go down to literally 0-1ped/warp if I choose to warp back and forth everyday.
And it is true that I have to set my game schedule to the Warp service schedule in order to save peds to warp.

On the other hand, VIP service is what I use when I have nothing carried but ammo and few pills to go hunt. Especially I can use warp most of the time, when I want to warp.
In this case, I use VIP warp service to save my time flying Quad in space.

Well, 7ped vs 20-25ped. What will I choose? 7ped.

I am certain that Mothership can save my ass when they encounter pirates during service.

My question is, does VIP services with privateer & starfinders have gunners & repairers on board with them when I use VIP service?

If not, I just choose 7ped for saving my time and money.

I just want to say that this game is a Real Cash Economy game.
Compete & fight & argue however you want,
as a customer, I choose cheapest.
Much like Motherships, reputable Privateers offering VIP warps have the same SI upgrade capability and service capability. An experienced and reputable captain operating a ship with strong SI offers extremely safe flights. As with anything in life, you do get what you pay for.
 

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Either you are deliberately leaving out MU and other costs or you are that ignorant.
You spam 7ped tickets for a long time before you actually warp, to get as many other passengers as you can, while making your current passengers wait and in the end charging more that 7ped for the warp. That is not VIP service. That is more of a scheduled warp. (Imagine if I charged someone 20ped for VIP then spent 30min to an hour trying to get other people to pay 20ped to come along)
Where as VIP providers will take you and all your friends on a warp for 20ped flat fee.
Also you are not being discrete and are advertising to potential pirates that you are warping at any given time. Also not VIP service.
 
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Mega

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If I warp, I make sure I know and trust the pilot.

However lately, I tend to fly Solo. ;)
 

mastermesh

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bah, all this warping... just use a quad and enjoy the pretty scenery. :)
 

Starkiller

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Subscribing to this thread. Amusing stuff :D

WTB Privateers at Boxes: tt+1 ped
 

morgoth

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hmm wonder if he can get more self destructive than this... lets watch and find out! :popcorn:
 
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I save approximately 100 ped a week when flying with Dove, and thats more then the loot any pirate would take of me if i was looted.
Thanks for finally being open with costs for spaceflight and bringing it to the public
 

mspatterson

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I save approximately 100 ped a week when flying with Dove, and thats more then the loot any pirate would take of me if i was looted.
Thanks for finally being open with costs for spaceflight and bringing it to the public
Hes not being open... he doesnt know how to properly calculate his own costs, risks and personal time.
 

Geo

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You know it’s against the rules to have multiple accounts right?
 

mspatterson

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You know it’s against the rules to have multiple accounts right?
exactly this as well.. while the rest of us following the rules have to fly up and down with added oil/thruster use.. his new alt pilot can certainly get things done cheaper =p
 
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