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Help: Crap returns on EP1, what should be my expectation?

Detritus

Detritus

Sel-requested Deactivation
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Detritus the Troll
Is EP1 feasible as a representative indicator of normal crafting returns?

Hey folks, help this poor noob out.

Completely sick of hunting so I'm trying to get into crafting. I've only done it casually in the past to burn up hunting loot, and so I never logged or paid any real attention to what I was doing, but now I want to make a more serious go of it.

I'm working on software to assist me before I do anything serious, so I've just been running EP1 on Monria to build some skills in the mean time. I am not expecting much from EP1, but so far my results have been pretty discouraging and I just wanted to get some feedback.

I'm using a QR 100 BP for which I am maxed, and on full quantity it shows 95% success rate. I have not yet unlocked BP comprehension.

I'm doing 5k click runs, and so far I've done 5 runs. Every run has been 72-74% TT return.

I did read about a potential rounding error when doing EP1 on quantity so I also tried 2 runs on full condition, but the results were both 72-73%.

25k kills when hunting is usually enough to get a relatively "normal" return - is that simply not the case with crafting?

Is this what I have to look forward to, or am I doing something totally wrong here?
 
Last edited:
Detritus said:
Hey folks, help this poor noob out.

... am I doing something totally wrong here?
Click to expand...

Without knowing for sure the answers.. EP1 does have something going on with not being able to pay out partial successes lots of the time due to the calculation being less than 1 pec. If you choose something like filters, then a success is at least 5 pecs and a 20% partial would still be able to throw 1 pec at you.

Going from one extreme to the other could be seen as "totally wrong", yes. If you take your chance of success down from something like 40% to just a few percent using the slider, then even 1k clicks will just be maybe 30, maybe 50 successes, which is only that many chances at multipliers. It would be like "sliding" mob kills and getting only one true loot in 20 mobs, instead of being in the 'lottery' every time. That's like killing 20k mobs, but it only really counts as a 1k run. It'd be no surprise to get long runs of crap. Did your 'software' log for you how many multies you got in your run (based on the lowest value of successes you were getting)?

(Mobs loot differently, I know. I guess "partials" are the returns of 20-99% on mobs, but with crafting it seems the partials count for nothing in terms of multies. The ratios are very different).
 
Back when i was crafting it, i did just moved the slider step by step towards condition untill the near successes were rather constantly 2 pec. However, back then the 50% TT-return near successes did not exist. So nowadays it may be necessary to move the slider so much towards condition that there's a significant increase in fails.

Testing various slider locations seems to be the way to find out.
 
Its too low cost per click, so there are more fails when they should be near success. You need to either move slider or craft full condition
 
expectation should be:

0% compounded.


You'll go completely broke, there's no edge, no positive expectancy clicking EP whatsoever.
 
Not sure where you got the idea to click EP for building up skills honestly, it's a terrible idea.

Just like hunting and mining, you need to go for markup when you craft, even while you are building up skills. Thankfully there are many crafted components now that are used in ArMatrix BPs and AP plate BPs that are constantly in demand so I think you would be better off doing plastic ruds or conductors for skills, and possibly some basic sheet metal as well since those seem to have a very consistent mu due to people like me burning through thousands of them in minutes (though you won't get much skills for making them).

But yeah simple plastic ruds are great for skilling metal engineer and there's lots of things a metal engineer can craft for markup.

Best of luck,

Legends
 
question, whats the difference some nub asking for "help! this return/loot sucks" after killing bzillion puny mobs in camp icarus

back to the topic. EP1? lol :yup:


PS. that nub at least do some aiming,shooting,looting after killing them, this person made an effort at least.

what about you? Detritus the Troll? just standing in front of CM(crafting machine) after few hours,days making thread about ur crappy return? get out of here lol

just my 2 peckers
 
Rocket192 said:
expectation should be:

0% compounded.


You'll go completely broke, there's no edge, no positive expectancy clicking EP whatsoever.
Click to expand...

I fully agree
EP are the slot machines of entropia, so you're playing against the house. The house always wins.
Like stated above, because the cost of EP I is so small, you'll get a lot ore rounded down outcomes.

I think EP I is the best bp to skill up, but only doing the Monria daily. That 75 pec engineering for 1200-1300 clicks makes it a lot nicer.
 
pamascom said:
question, whats the difference some nub asking for "help! this return/loot sucks" after killing bzillion puny mobs in camp icarus
Click to expand...

Nor really a good comparison.
Cuz after a billion of puny mobs your return will be 90%+ and you might even get some MU to compensate losses.

Crafting just sucks so much harder, especially at low lvl.
 
For 2 pec BP you need full condition, else rounding will aim you towards 85 % at best. EP1 is excellent for Monria daily, even with the low tt return.
 
Thanks for all the replies. Special thanks to pamascom for taking time out of what must be a very busy schedule at the local glory hole to share his wisdom.

I guess I didn't clarify that I am not expecting to click EP1 for profit or even sustainability and I'm not going to do it long term. I am strictly doing it as an easy TT-in craft for the Monria daily while I finish my app, over the next week or so. I am expecting it to be a loss and I fully realize long-term EP will bring me to zero.

The purpose of this post was simply to get a feel for what "normal" returns on crafting should be and over what number of clicks.. and whether EP1 is a valid indicator or not. It sounds like it's not. I've been running simulations to determine what types of things would be good to craft and I can find sustainability down to around 83-84% TT return. Low 70's% is not sustainable, so if that's what crafting looks like I'd rather find out now and not waste my time.
 
LavaSparks said:
For 2 pec BP you need full condition, else rounding will aim you towards 85 % at best. EP1 is excellent for Monria daily, even with the low tt return.
Click to expand...

Interesting, my EP 1 returns have been 90-110% TT-return on individiual runs with a little bit towards condition ^^
Or are you not counting BP drops into tt return?
 
ep1's greatest thing is the bp drops usually.. if your doing it on planet with popular bp's youll get a tons worth a couple ped here n a couple ped there

can even profit from WW bp's! I kno it seems crazy buts its true lol

I found it performed best turned up a bit from full quantity... like 15% up. that resolved the under 1pec issue mostly as well
 
Detritus said:
The purpose of this post was simply to get a feel for what "normal" returns on crafting should be and over what number of clicks.. and whether EP1 is a valid indicator or not. It sounds like it's not.
Click to expand...

It is not a good indicator, if you want to get an idea on how many near success, success and fails on crafting using a low BP, then use one that has a 10pec cost to click. It will still have rounding errors, though it will not put those into fails like EP1 does. If you want to be more accurate then use a 1ped/click but that is probably not necessary for your app.

Detritus said:
I've been running simulations to determine what types of things would be good to craft and I can find sustainability down to around 83-84% TT return. Low 70's% is not sustainable, so if that's what crafting looks like I'd rather find out now and not waste my time.
Click to expand...

What type of things that are good to craft are based on the item produced, cost of ingredients, how often they sell and what MU you get for the item, not what the return on the BP is. BP TT returns should be similar across the board much like hunting is similar across mobs, with a few exceptions for low cost to click (like hunting low cost to kill mobs). If you have the skills, 100QR BP's and ped balance for bankroll management, then you will find a 92%-98% TT return fluctuation in the long run. Without the skills and QR BP's, that can spread to greater volatility were you will get some abysmal runs but will again even out in the long run. It will usually take a longer time to even out though.
 
mspatterson said:
ep1's greatest thing is the bp drops usually.. if your doing it on planet with popular bp's youll get a tons worth a couple ped here n a couple ped there
Click to expand...

Wait what? This is how lame I am with crafting... so the BP drops are tied to the planet and not what you're crafting?

Darth Revan said:
What type of things that are good to craft are based on the item produced, cost of ingredients, how often they sell and what MU you get for the item, not what the return on the BP is. BP TT returns should be similar across the board much like hunting is similar across mobs, with a few exceptions for low cost to click (like hunting low cost to kill mobs). If you have the skills, 100QR BP's and ped balance for bankroll management, then you will find a 92%-98% TT return fluctuation in the long run.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info... and I agree; I am not using TT return to determine what to craft, but rather as a way to simulate e.g. what MU I could reasonably buy mats for given a floor return on expected number of products crafted. I wasn't trying to train any algorithms specifically from the EP1 results, they were just much lower than expected. My worst hunting runs would be in the mid-80s%, so I naively assumed something similar for crafting. I'm slowly learning that I need to stop using hunting metaphors and treat crafting as an entirely new beast.
 
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