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Suggestion: Cut of the blodflow to the leeches

Pete Longmorn

Pete Longmorn

Guardian
Joined
Jun 18, 2010
Posts
301
Location
Sweden
Good afternoon

How about creating a function that makes it impossible to sell an item unless you have used it a specified amount of times, equivalent to a month or two of daily use.
Apply the function to unlimited gears like weapons, armors, amps, rings, faps, finders etc. Items that holds a higher value.
Make some exceptions, like for newly looted and fresh crafted items.

Begin with some replicas of existing weapons but with this extra function and see how its working.


And for the record.
Traders have a function in this game. By buying loot and ores, they provide luiqidity to make hunters and miners life easier.
I'm not talking about real traders.
I'm talking about bloodsucking reselling leeches who have one purpose and that is to suck out as much peds from the community as possible.


Cheers

/Pete
 
This is a silly suggestion, i'm not a reseller at all, but i have brought something to try it out or test it, found out i didn't like it or it didn't do what i expected and then sold it. All within a few days or even hours. Granted i don't put on $2K and then try to sell it, usually just what i paid for it.

So what would happen now is that i buy something and then am forced to use it for a long time, even if it wasn't reaching my expectations. Which means i either lose ped or it ends up sitting in storage until the time i determine that its okay for me to lose ped to use it and get rid of it.

Obviously you wrote this thread in frustation to something and didn't really put any real thought into your suggestion.

The easiest solution is for people to pay the amount they are happy to for an item. You want that $98K weapon, but don't want to pay $98K for it, then don't. Wait until someone sells it at a better cost. Most likely the small % efficiency or DPS or whatever you want it for is not worth the cost.
Even for events, you can have the best gear and get beaten by someone who had more luck.
 
My dream gun is rare and I can't find one for sale so I buy another gun. 2 days later my dream gun comes up for sale but I'm stuck with this other gun for 2 month.

2 months later my dream gun comes up for sale again, I need to sell my current gun fast to get peds and I don't mind selling it cheap. But no hunters are on the market for my gun atm and the traders won't buy it because they have to use it for 2 months before selling.

I can't get my dream gun and i'm pissed off with this game so i cash out - all because some guy doesn't like traders.
 
Also, "resellers", as they are affectionately called in this game, often are the only ones putting up the capital and keeping the game alive when loads of people are leaving the game at the same time, like after Loot 2.0 for example when there was wave after wave of people leaving and selling all their gear. If it wasn't for them, UL gear value would have gone to 0 and nobody would have had any faith left in the game at all if that had happened. So 'resellers' keep the economy from bottoming out completely in bad times.
 
just no, some crafters have outsource the selling to traders to save some time and hassle...
 
Private trades in some ways be a good idea to remove though.. everything through auction so people dont get scammed or scammed less
 
If everything had to be through auction or shop, how would we do loans of equipment to socmates and friends ? How could a crafter outsource component crafting ?
If everything had time delay it would also affect loans as they would be seen by the system as trades also, so you can borrow my sword for the weekends event but then I cant get it back for 2 months.. it would damage the game in so many ways

What we have is not ideal, but the answer to the more obvious resellers that over-inflate prices is don't buy
if they lose the listing fee a few times they will have to drop price to something more reasonable
the main culprit in inflating prices is not the seller, but the 'must have it and must have it now' buyer.
 
it wasnt a perfect suggestion but could be good in many ways. the rental and borrowing system your referring to is 90% why mayhem for example will never be fair..
 
The problem OP is talking about is that many rare and expensive items end up in the hands of resellers, who hike up the prices even further, and the poeple buying these items think that they're actually worth that much because they have a high efficiency or whatever else. There resellers end up making hundreds or even thousands of PED on some deals, and withdraw the playerbase's money. Some traders play actively, wich is great, but some resellers do not contribute anything at all to the game's economy, making huge profits by selling overpriced and overrated items to people who don't know better. When these people realise that their expensive item does not allow them to print PED, they end up selling it at a loss to other resellers (or maybe the same one), and then they quit, thus completing the vicious circle.

This is not supply and demand, not even close, this is called price fixing. I bet that if those inactive, hoarding resellers were forced to sell through the auction and the auction alone, the prices on their items will fall by 2x if not more.

What I think MA needs to do is introduce some sort of market regulation to prevent that sort of thing, just like we have in real life. Since everything in this game costs real money, regulation also needs to be real.
 
SoberPhil said:
This is not supply and demand, not even close, this is called price fixing. I bet that if those inactive, hoarding resellers were forced to sell through the auction and the auction alone, the prices on their items will fall by 2x if not more.
Click to expand...
The markup history screens are all dictated by what we see in the auction. The history of p2p trading and shops is NOT seen in the market history grids in game. Only Auction is.

In ancient days some made suggestions that p2p trades and shops have market history as well. There's also been tons of requests over the years for a shop directory, something that even Ludvig himself requested before he joined Mindark as an employee.

Maybe that's something Mindark can look in to at some point. I suspect the ancient behind the scenes database that allows shops and p2p sales would need to be rehauled in order to allow a directory and to track the history on all of those sales, but if they could make it happen it'd be swell. Maybe even add in like 3 or four history grids, one for p2p sales, one for auction, one for shops, etc. Start with the directory for shops though since that's been needed in game forever, and I don't think there's enough data in how things are stored now to really track history til that happens first so that there is enough information there to actually do a market history type grid.

The new item locking feature does exist in game, but I think it would be a horrible mistake to force item locking on anything in a 'real cash economy.'

In ancient times when explosive projectile crafting was created it was suggested that to slow the crafters Mindark could make it impossible to sell to the Trade Terminal, but that too would be a mistake unless they make it so that other types of ammo cannot be TTed either to counter balance it... and/or make it so other types of ammy is crafted too.

Regarding the 'leeches' who do 'rental programs' in this game where 'all sales are final' and renting is actually seen by Mindark as a potential scam attempt, maybe you are on the right track with this idea... but instead of limiting it to 'actual use' by the avatar, put a stall on the trading instead... Cause said special items to become avatar bound temporarily with item lock for 3 months time, then after it is sold make it so that particular avatar (or anyone with that avatar's ip address) cannot re-acquire that item til at least 5 other avatars have held the item in question first for the 3 month time frame as well. Yes, this would massively slow market on the special items you are talking about but maybe it'd stop what you are talking about or at least massively slow it down. Of course this might actually inflate the prices instead of reducting them since supply would be lower, causing demand to be higher.
 
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Legends said:
Also, "resellers", as they are affectionately called in this game, often are the only ones putting up the capital and keeping the game alive when loads of people are leaving the game at the same time, like after Loot 2.0 for example when there was wave after wave of people leaving and selling all their gear. If it wasn't for them, UL gear value would have gone to 0 and nobody would have had any faith left in the game at all if that had happened. So 'resellers' keep the economy from bottoming out completely in bad times.
Click to expand...

This argument does not make any sense from an economical level. It is the buyer that keeps things alive. It doesn't matter how many resellers you have, the only person putting money in game are the ones buying the items and using them. Resellers always cash out, that is the reason for reselling.

Higher prices just leads to less use of items and people both playing on a lower level and grinding daily missions/bonus missions for tokens.
Look at the prices for the A101 amps for example, or the Ares(L) rings.


Resellers hurt the game economy and in the end MA's bottom line.
They constantly query the auction database causing lag for everyone. They hike up prices and furstrate and annoy people and most of them have multiple accounts and no love for the game.

Note that I don't talk about people buying oils and ores and stuff in twin peaks and foma. Those are the good kind of resellers that aid the economy that help cycle peds. They others are just leeches on the economy. :twocents:
 
TheAlchemist said:
Look at the prices for the A101 amps for example,
Click to expand...

This is a very good example that proves there's something fishy going on with the auction. I sold my A101 several months ago because I wasn't using it anymore (was +200 I think), and I had players PM me and ask me if I would agree to sell it below MU, like well below, at a reseller's price, pathetic!!

I just checked the MU on that and it's +300, can someone please explain to me why does it cost that much? IS there any reason for it to cost that much? NO, there is not.

Listen guys, using A101 to boost your efficiency could have some benefits but you WILL NOT PRINT PED, it just doesn't work that way. That amp is totally not worth +300 PED. If you're keen on using a small and efficient laser amp, you could go ahead and purchase the gold starter pack from EU's webshop, which has an amp that I personally found to work better that A101, ZX Zincadus, and guess how much it costs? 30 USD, or the same 300 PED, and with that you'll get a great weapon for grinding small mobs, z12 Barbarella, a set of armor with runspeed buff for mining, a vehicle and other stuff. So if you want to support MA at the start of your career in EU, do so directly and stop feeding the parasites.

P.S. I know it sounds like I'm advertising the gold starter pack, I'm not, I just want people to be smart about their money, and stuff like A101 - that's one of the first things that people who are generally willing to invest buy in this game. The items they'll get in the starter pack will be way more useful to them.
 
if you want to help with over inflated prices, then join rookie channel , especially regarding the A101, advice on that is it's for long term use and not generally worth it's current price.
You'd be surprised how influential the Rookie channel can be.
 
SoberPhil said:
That amp is totally not worth +300 PED. If you're keen on using a small and efficient laser amp, you could go ahead and purchase the gold starter pack from EU's webshop, which has an amp that I personally found to work better that A101, ZX Zincadus, and guess how much it costs? 30 USD, or the same 300 PED, and with that you'll get a great weapon for grinding small mobs, z12 Barbarella, a set of armor with runspeed buff for mining, a vehicle and other stuff.
Click to expand...
It used to be quasi ok to use webshop amp, and I still do use it sometimes, but it really breaks way faster than the A101 so I usually just use A101. Is the extra markup worth it to stay in the field a bit longer, guess that's up to the buyer to decide...
 
This "game" is designed for leeches.

Regular players just loose money, half of which goes to Mindark, and half to the leeches.

Buying any kinds of Deeds @ box. :deal:
 
TheAlchemist said:
This argument does not make any sense from an economical level. It is the buyer that keeps things alive. It doesn't matter how many resellers you have, the only person putting money in game are the ones buying the items and using them. Resellers always cash out, that is the reason for reselling.

Higher prices just leads to less use of items and people both playing on a lower level and grinding daily missions/bonus missions for tokens.
Look at the prices for the A101 amps for example, or the Ares(L) rings.


Resellers hurt the game economy and in the end MA's bottom line.
They constantly query the auction database causing lag for everyone. They hike up prices and furstrate and annoy people and most of them have multiple accounts and no love for the game.

Note that I don't talk about people buying oils and ores and stuff in twin peaks and foma. Those are the good kind of resellers that aid the economy that help cycle peds. They others are just leeches on the economy. :twocents:
Click to expand...

I think we just have a different definition of what a 'reseller' is, that's all..
 
mastermesh said:
It used to be quasi ok to use webshop amp, and I still do use it sometimes, but it really breaks way faster than the A101 so I usually just use A101. Is the extra markup worth it to stay in the field a bit longer, guess that's up to the buyer to decide...
Click to expand...

You're right. It depends on the IQ of the buyer, whether he's gonna buy a small amp for 30 USD, or basically the same amp (yes, it has less uses, but that's totally irrelevant since you can repair it and small mobs are usually located not far from TP) with a set of armor, a vehicle and a bunch of other useful stuff for the same 30 USD.
 
TheAlchemist said:
This argument does not make any sense from an economical level. It is the buyer that keeps things alive. It doesn't matter how many resellers you have, the only person putting money in game are the ones buying the items and using them. Resellers always cash out, that is the reason for reselling.
Click to expand...

i have to disagree. personally, i sink my profits from reselling into materials for crafting to expand my crafting.
 
Just don't buy the overpriced stuff and it is solved, but if somebody buys it, it wasnt overpriced.
MA action's vs them would be a terrible message in my eyes.
 
Alukat123 said:
i have to disagree. personally, i sink my profits from reselling into materials for crafting to expand my crafting.
Click to expand...

You and probably not anyone on this forum is who I am talking about.

For example, there is a avatar in half moon bay auction who hasn't moved for over 9 days. It doesn't matter if I log in, in the morning evening or night. That avatar still stands there. It is one of several you can find. Is it a real person, or a bot tracking auction? Who knows.
 
What a crazy socialistic in origin idea...resellers and traders are like highway between cities. They provide so much needed liquidity and are awarded for risk they take. U need read a bit of Smith, Locke, Friedman and Hayek to understood that. Good lord...another Piketty & Marks fan.
 
another communist brat with a stupid idea. go away.
 
This has to be one of the worst ideas I've seen. This would destroy the game for all of the reasons stated above and more. For instance it would destroy equipment rentals.
 
TheAlchemist said:
You and probably not anyone on this forum is who I am talking about.

For example, there is a avatar in half moon bay auction who hasn't moved for over 9 days. It doesn't matter if I log in, in the morning evening or night. That avatar still stands there. It is one of several you can find. Is it a real person, or a bot tracking auction? Who knows.
Click to expand...


So we should destroy the game to stop them from doing something you can't comprehend?
 
Angel O2 Mercer said:
Never quite understood the hate for traders/resellers, honestly.

Deep down is it just envy?
Click to expand...

It's realy simple. Some person cant afford something. So thinking is starting how to mach that need with reality. Normal ,hard working ones get to work, find job or something and work hard toward achieving goal of affording their need. Socialist or demanding idiots with external atribution seeks external obstracles in reaching their goal. They never see problem with themselfs, just enviroment. So thinking of such type goes like this:
1. I cant buy something... why ?
2. Because price is to high...why?
3. Because those damn reselers (even that name for trader or shopkeeper is negative ) are leeching our money and wind up prices !
ergo:
Jail / ban/ cease all reseling ( free trading in reality)


Envy sometimess lies deep down beneath decision of taking action to obtain something for sure. It depend on person what it will forge it into. Motivation for work or fuel for hate and demands.
 
I don't think resellers are going anywhere anytime soon. It's just been a part of PE/EU for so very long. Working within the supply/demand mechanics of EU is fine to some extent until they move into unethical behavior like market manipulation, auction scams, and things like that. I guess I'm just used to it since most of my life I've bought and sold comics, art, and other collectibles and understand that some things are worth as much as someone is willing to pay. Sometimes they pay above market and yet other times below or you get stuck with inventory.

Someone may look at an item in EU and realize they could spend 3X as much trying to loot such item and still have zero to show for it in the end. So it might be worth it to them to pay a little more and get the item they want right away. Resellers play a precarious game though since they can get stuck with items that never sell or devalue in some way in the next VU.

If you think there is unethical behavior going on with items in EU then don't buy from that person(s). Scams, blatant market manipulation, and bots are more of a drain on EU, in my opinion. There are always going to be unscrupulous people in the world, its unfortunate but a reality no matter where you live. The best thing you can do is be informed and don't reward shitty behavior, whether in EU or the real world their are always options if you have patience.
 
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