Help: Data needed to update jdegre optimizer skill curve

Hijacker27

Marauder
Joined
May 14, 2007
Posts
5,288
Location
Mississauaga Ontario, Canada
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
hijacker Hijacker27 inferno
Hey everyone!

Way back when jdegre made his skill optimizer and skill scanner tools, there was not a lot of data to go off of for skills over 10K (and was not much need to chip past level 100) and therefore any calculations that require skill values over about 13K will not calculate accurately.

Now that we have tons of avatars with individual skills ranging up to and even above 50K it is time to update this formula.

To help with this I have created a google form and accompanied google sheet to plot the impact of a 1250 PED skill implant on different skill values. All you have to do to help out is find a skill implant for a skill you have over 10K, copy the item link for it, paste it into chat and click on the link. This will show you your current skill level and the skill level you would reach after eating a 1250 PED skill implant for that skill. Please fill out (accurately please) the form below for your skills over 10K so jdegre can update his optimizer, and the data will also immediately pop into the chart I created to plot it.

Link to Google form

Link to chart
 
Joined
Nov 13, 2020
Posts
431
Location
Us n A is very nice
Society
Never will I have Sock
Avatar Name
Angela Draniie Cloud
Hey everyone!

Way back when jdegre made his skill optimizer and skill scanner tools, there was not a lot of data to go off of for skills over 10K (and was not much need to chip past level 100) and therefore any calculations that require skill values over about 13K will not calculate accurately.

Now that we have tons of avatars with individual skills ranging up to and even above 50K it is time to update this formula.

To help with this I have created a google form and accompanied google sheet to plot the impact of a 1250 PED skill implant on different skill values. All you have to do to help out is find a skill implant for a skill you have over 10K, copy the item link for it, paste it into chat and click on the link. This will show you your current skill level and the skill level you would reach after eating a 1250 PED skill implant for that skill. Please fill out (accurately please) the form below for your skills over 10K so jdegre can update his optimizer, and the data will also immediately pop into the chart I created to plot it.

Link to Google form

Link to chart
No skills over 10k for me. Just want to say thanks for helping with the maths
 

NevadaJake

Stalker
Joined
Nov 14, 2007
Posts
2,232
Location
Nevada, USA
Avatar Name
Drake Slade Corbett
Hey everyone!

Way back when jdegre made his skill optimizer and skill scanner tools, there was not a lot of data to go off of for skills over 10K (and was not much need to chip past level 100) and therefore any calculations that require skill values over about 13K will not calculate accurately.

Now that we have tons of avatars with individual skills ranging up to and even above 50K it is time to update this formula.

To help with this I have created a google form and accompanied google sheet to plot the impact of a 1250 PED skill implant on different skill values. All you have to do to help out is find a skill implant for a skill you have over 10K, copy the item link for it, paste it into chat and click on the link. This will show you your current skill level and the skill level you would reach after eating a 1250 PED skill implant for that skill. Please fill out (accurately please) the form below for your skills over 10K so jdegre can update his optimizer, and the data will also immediately pop into the chart I created to plot it.

Link to Google form

Link to chart
I always wondered how that data was obtained. I am glad that nobody actually had to chip out any skills to gather it :)
 

girtsn

Slayer
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Posts
7,935
Location
Belgium
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Girts Smilgs Niedra
Now that we have tons of avatars with individual skills ranging up to and even above 50K it is time to update this formula.
even though messi's ego must be worth tons of avatars :) , not sure if there are that many other 40k+ out there
(with lot botting in instances all day might be indeed)
I will contrubute with ~30k max later today
P.S.
did not hear a lot of enthusiasm from jdegree over the last time had an updatee on industrialist composition
 

B-K-K

Provider
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Posts
112
Location
Norway
Society
Holy Moly
Avatar Name
Kamonpach BKK Empress
I'll contibute - but need someone who has some filled 1250ped ESIs with skills that I can check with :)

Would it be possible to turn it around, and check how many skillpoints you lose filling a 1250ped ESI? Might be easier to get data then
 

miathan

Dominant
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Posts
399
Location
Sweden
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Alindrina Alli Golden
Very good initiative! I would however suggest to not limit it to full tt chips. That way you can just browse for an implant on AH and check what it will give you.
 

girtsn

Slayer
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Posts
7,935
Location
Belgium
Society
Freelancer
Avatar Name
Girts Smilgs Niedra
a full one is not needed,
the trick is to measure it with thee general link of the item not with the actual skill implant that you used from what I understood of OP
Very good initiative! I would however suggest to not limit it to full tt chips. That way you can just browse for an implant on AH and check what it will give you.
 

Killahbee

Marauder
Joined
Aug 30, 2005
Posts
5,778
Location
The Netherlands
Society
illuminox
Avatar Name
Killahbee Killer Bee Killahbee
I'll contibute - but need someone who has some filled 1250ped ESIs with skills that I can check with :)

Would it be possible to turn it around, and check how many skillpoints you lose filling a 1250ped ESI? Might be easier to get data then
What smilgs said ↑
Copy a filled skill implant item link, paste in your chat. Open that and it'll show what a 1250 PED implant of that skill does.
 

B-K-K

Provider
Joined
Apr 16, 2021
Posts
112
Location
Norway
Society
Holy Moly
Avatar Name
Kamonpach BKK Empress
Thanks for the info - I'll fill in some data later :)
 

miathan

Dominant
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Posts
399
Location
Sweden
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Alindrina Alli Golden
What smilgs said ↑
Copy a filled skill implant item link, paste in your chat. Open that and it'll show what a 1250 PED implant of that skill does.
Oh, that's smart :)
 

Hijacker27

Marauder
Joined
May 14, 2007
Posts
5,288
Location
Mississauaga Ontario, Canada
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
hijacker Hijacker27 inferno
Thanks for the data so far everyone! Impressive how high some of your skill levels are lol
 

Hijacker27

Marauder
Joined
May 14, 2007
Posts
5,288
Location
Mississauaga Ontario, Canada
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
hijacker Hijacker27 inferno
Bump for more data please!
 

niteflite

Guardian
Joined
Jan 2, 2006
Posts
271
Society
Laid Back
Avatar Name
Nite Niteflite Flite
My range is only up to 20k, so I contributed three points, one around 11k, one halfway about 15k and one around 20k. Thank you very much for taking on this task.
 

Hijacker27

Marauder
Joined
May 14, 2007
Posts
5,288
Location
Mississauaga Ontario, Canada
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
hijacker Hijacker27 inferno
Amazing data so far. Still need more to fill out data on the sin wave (is it still every 500 points)?

Just a reminder as well that you can add your skills again and again as you gain levels. Even 10 more points in a skill will help fill out the curves properly
 

miathan

Dominant
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Posts
399
Location
Sweden
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Alindrina Alli Golden
Amazing data so far. Still need more to fill out data on the sin wave (is it still every 500 points)?

Just a reminder as well that you can add your skills again and again as you gain levels. Even 10 more points in a skill will help fill out the curves properly
From all data I have seen the sine wave continues with a period of 500 points. It will not be possible (or at least more difficult) to model it using this data though since a full tt chip gives you too many points.
This data is still really valuable to see the overall trend. But to get the shape of the sine wave three fields are needed: current points, resulting points and chip tt. Then smaller chips can be used to get the details.
 

Hijacker27

Marauder
Joined
May 14, 2007
Posts
5,288
Location
Mississauaga Ontario, Canada
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
hijacker Hijacker27 inferno
From all data I have seen the sine wave continues with a period of 500 points. It will not be possible (or at least more difficult) to model it using this data though since a full tt chip gives you too many points.
This data is still really valuable to see the overall trend. But to get the shape of the sine wave three fields are needed: current points, resulting points and chip tt. Then smaller chips can be used to get the details.
The problem with smaller chips is the before and afters are rounded whole numbers, which on a 10 or even 20 ped esi can be off by 25% or more in accuracy. I'd rather more accuracy than sdnsitivity, especially since we can go off of old school data from skills under 10k and extrapolate from there (and see if it matches the 1250 tt cross section of this data)
 

miathan

Dominant
Joined
Jan 24, 2008
Posts
399
Location
Sweden
Society
Rangers
Avatar Name
Alindrina Alli Golden
The problem with smaller chips is the before and afters are rounded whole numbers, which on a 10 or even 20 ped esi can be off by 25% or more in accuracy. I'd rather more accuracy than sdnsitivity, especially since we can go off of old school data from skills under 10k and extrapolate from there (and see if it matches the 1250 tt cross section of this data)
Yeah, I do get the rounding error to whole points. It's just that you mentioned the sine wave. The method with full TT chips is really good at capturing the overall trend but since a full TT gives more than 500 points (even at 50K skills) I think it will be mathematically impossible to resolve the sine wave using this method.
I think the rounding error can be handled with averaging enough data using a good model of the rounding error.
If the form was extended with TT value users could also enter values from Codex points where you can get very good accuracy as you can see two decimal places in the "Progress" window and four decimal places in the points gained.

The important part is the overall trend though which this data already shows pretty well :)
 

jdegre

Elite
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Posts
2,961
Location
Madrid, Spain
Society
Survival Program
Avatar Name
Jesus jdegre de Gregorio
P.S. did not hear a lot of enthusiasm from jdegree over the last time had an updatee on industrialist composition

:p
sorry, mate, your mail must have come during a time of lots of IRL workload, so I missed it. now it's fixed!
 

jdegre

Elite
Joined
Dec 24, 2005
Posts
2,961
Location
Madrid, Spain
Society
Survival Program
Avatar Name
Jesus jdegre de Gregorio
thanks a lot, hijacker, for this initiative. I have had a look at the charts with the new data and they look great.

if I can make a suggestion, it would be very good to get data not only starting from 10k skills points, but also form some lower skill points. the issue is that the function [skill points] -> [TT value] needs to be built incrementally, so the starting point must be fully accurate; otherwise, the only info we get is the slope of the curve, but not the actual [x,y] point of the function.

in other words, it would be great if we could get data from skill points starting in the range of 8400 - 10k; so, the final skill points (after the "fake" implant of 1250 TT chip) gets in the range of 10k -12k.

the problem is that the current Google Form does not allow skill values below 10k. any chance to update the form to allow a wider range?

cheers,
/jdegre.
 

Hijacker27

Marauder
Joined
May 14, 2007
Posts
5,288
Location
Mississauaga Ontario, Canada
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
hijacker Hijacker27 inferno
I've updated the minimum starting skill to 8000, please fill with data!
 

Orion

Old Alpha
Joined
Apr 19, 2005
Posts
990
Location
Germany
Society
Crimson Devils
Avatar Name
Eleria 'Orion' Starwind
In the early days the skillgain got reworked and Marco Behrmann posted a picture to explain differences of old and new skillgain.
(Whoah! MindArk still communicated back then!!)

I couldn't find it anywhere on the internet, so i am quite sure it was sooooo long ago that it still got posted on entropia-pioneers.org forum.
Luckily I copied it back then!
Look at this tiny resolution:

index.php
 
Last edited:
Top