Deeds - your opinion

Will MA be able to hold up the promise of a ROI of 30% if they are not able to sell all of them?
They never made such a promise to begin with so it's a moat question ;) They only stated that based on the last 12 months the expected ROI would be 27%-30%.
 
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I'm with Yquem. Not all will sell, we are already at saturation point (I would think) @ only 7000 being sold. If they all do sell it will take more than 6 months from the day of release for it to do so but I highly doubt that it will at current rate of sales. I will wait till next year to basically decide if I will buy but as of this moment, I will just ignore the deeds nothing special about 5ped extra per week imo. That's less than what a sweater could manage. It only get mildly more interesting when you can buy more than 100 deeds upto a 1000+. Then it gets more viable as an investment option.
 
Deeds as an economic indicator

One side effect of deeds is that Calypso economic activity will be much more transparent to all.

Increasing deed payout = economic activity (player activity) on the increase
Decresing deed payout = economy activity (player activity) is going down.

I think this added transparency will have a large impact. Not sure if good or bad.

And to answer OP:
Hi,
Im just curios what is your opinion about selling land deeds?

Do you think MA will meet their expectations and will sell all deeds for 1k per paper?
What about money? How much do you think will be deposited and how much will be recovered from storages?
If you personally buy deeds you do it via depo or you just save peds ingame(selling out stuff from stor, selling items, playing less)?

And most important question - what do you think about the future?
After 1/4 of revenue(or what is it) will go back to players, doesnt it mean players will deposit approx 25% less in the future?
Wont be system missing that money?

- Im not sure MA expects to sell all deeds. At least not in a short timeframe.

- Over time I think 60 million peds will be deposited to pay for the deeds. Some deeds are paid for with ingame peds but those peds sooner or later have to be replaced to have players operating as before.

I think we see a decrease in activity in the near future when so many accounts are sucked dry of peds to pay forr deeds.

Long term I hope for an increased economic activity when players get weekly ped payouts to support their activities. Increased activty will give more decay resulting in helthy deposits.

If deed holders see deed payout diminishing gradually for a longer period of time I think we will see a lot of "the sky is falling" panic that will be very bad for the game.
 
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I'm with Yquem. Not all will sell, we are already at saturation point (I would think) @ only 7000 being sold. If they all do sell it will take more than 6 months from the day of release for it to do so but I highly doubt that it will at current rate of sales. I will wait till next year to basically decide if I will buy but as of this moment, I will just ignore the deeds nothing special about 5ped extra per week imo. That's less than what a sweater could manage. It only get mildly more interesting when you can buy more than 100 deeds upto a 1000+. Then it gets more viable as an investment option.

I got deeds offered for 950 yesterday already. That is a 5% drop already in 1 week? Wait until the mainstream of ppl start thinking that they can sell their deed now for 900 - 950 and buy em again later for 650 or even less. Then a downwards spiral start. I hope it doesn't it would be a bad start for ppl who buying due press relase and created an ava therefore.
 
If deed holders see deed payout diminishing gradually for a longer period of time I think we will see a lot of "the sky is falling" panic that will be very bad for the game.


Thats why people like the above are posting.

They do not have any interest in the game to die, but if they can just get there deeds a bit cheaper it will be exactly what they want.
 
Thats why people like the above are posting.

They do not have any interest in the game to die, but if they can just get there deeds a bit cheaper it will be exactly what they want.

I'm not talking the price down just being realistic, I would rather see that all deeds are sold fast and price skyrockets. That would be awesome for advertisement and attract new players with an interest in the RCE.

But therefore MA had to release in batches of 50K per 6 months or so instead of all 600K at once, so they could create a real demand and then the shares would probably already at 110%.
 
What Im missing strongly is campaing by MA about possibility to own part of calypso. This could start few months before deeds came to auction.
Players could have enough time to prepare themselves for upcoming investment.
And the result should be MUCH better.
 
I'm not talking the price down just being realistic, I would rather see that all deeds are sold fast and price skyrockets. That would be awesome for advertisement and attract new players with an interest in the RCE.

But therefore MA had to release in batches of 50K per 6 months or so instead of all 600K at once, so they could create a real demand and then the shares would probably already at 110%.

Well, come 5th Dec the MA estate guy is going to have a fund of 150 - 250k Ped per week if the sales are slugish. If the price does fall significantly below offer value and halting future 1000Ped sales they can just buy up any free market excess for relisting.
 
The price drop we will see i think we see with a lot of things on calypso. When i was greener then green i got myself a hof and went buckwild on a spending spree several vehicles etc lol. I realized i couldn't afford to maintain this and it cost me ped in deterioration of items(due to skills) devaluation of the sleipnir etc(It seems to fit in a similar trend, again just my observations). I think they offered the deeds and people didn't have a clear expectation of what they could expect from acquiring them. So as i did with a lot of my unneeded items they are sold at below market value due to the amount of people figuring the same. It seems a lot of people figured they were partnering with MA on this and were going to make out like bandits. Just wouldn't be great business for MA.

There is as someone said several thousand in circulation atm. My assumption is that people felt burned figuring they were gonna get 10 ped a week and tried to sell out before seeing some form of cascading effect. But we wont see the deeds for sale by MA go down to those levels. So if your lucky enough to get one at 600-700 ped imo if you like the game and want to support it, it is a great idea to pick em up cause i cant see the prices lasting like that. Someone with more money is probably frothing at the mouth and snagging all under priced deeds. At least i would if i could afford to drop 10k rather then a few hundred.

It's too early to tell (for people actually in this for the money) if these deeds will be a good thing or not. If your just looking to support the game for a small boon it's something great and hopefully adds the the success of the company allowing it to do more in the future. as well as give the little guy who cant afford an OLA a bit of a stake in the planet.

Makes me think no matter how insignificant the player or the value of the deposits said player may deposit they get a small say. Having a voice imo is better then none non matter how small that voice is.
 
Hehe and the funny thing is that 30% ROI is only 25% of the GR so actual ROI is 120% :laugh:


That's one of the dumbest remarks I have ever heard tbh.

If I value company A to 1mill dollars - And I wanna sell 25% for 250k dollars, and I say it's 30% ROI

Then the entire company will still only have 30% ROI.

30% of 250k = 75k/year
30% of 1mill = 300k/year

You can't just magicly multiply by 4 and say it's 120%, then the entire company would make 1.2mill dollars/year and not 300k/year.





It's not a personal attack - But now I have seen several people on the board saying that if MA sell 25%, and ROI is 30%, then the entire planet has 120% ROI.

30% will allways be 30% - That's why you use % to start with. Else someone buying 1 share would get 30% ROI, and someone buying 100 shares would get 3k% ROI :scratch2:
 
Sorry but if you have a proven return of 30% banks and investors will fight to give you a loan.

you'd think so, wouldnt you. however there's credit illiquidity (you may have heard about it) and SEE has form for leaving projects half eaten or collasped. im just saying we dont know what happend with them and their finances.
 
You can't just magicly multiply by 4 and say it's 120%, then the entire company would make 1.2mill dollars/year and not 300k/year.

Not a personal attack this either but you seriously didnt understand the post.
MA is estimating a 27-30% ROI on each invested 1k peds.

We know that 27-30% ROI is only 25% of the Gross Revenue (Now forth GR)
If we would get 50% of the GR on our 1k deed the ROI would be estimated 54-60%

You understand now?

Ofc I know that GR is not pure profit, but was making a cute observation. MA is saying that for each ped we invest, they can make it grow.

If I understand it correctly they arent planning to make a real ROI IRL from our cash. They are just pushing debt to future users (old and new) I think its called a pyramid something :dunce:

MA isnt and cant create a lender of last resort. A system like this is bound to break. First to probably be tweeked when the system starts to creak is that you get 8 ped per $ when you deposit but you need 10 ped per $ when you withdraw.
 
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Not a personal attack this either but you seriously didnt understand the post.
MA is estimating a 27-30% ROI on each invested 1k peds.

We know that 27-30% ROI is only 25% of the Gross Revenue (Now forth GR)
If we would get 50% of the GR on our 1k deed the ROI would be estimated 54-60%

You understand now?

Ofc I know that GR is not pure profit, but was making a cute observation. MA is saying that for each ped we invest, they can make it grow.

If I understand it correctly they arent planning to make a real ROI IRL from our cash. They are just pushing debt to future users (old and new) I think its called a pyramid something :dunce:

MA isnt and cant create a lender of last resort. A system like this is bound to break. First to probably be tweeked when the system starts to creak is that you get 8 ped per $ when you deposit but you need 10 ped per $ when you withdraw.

I don't understand your point. They give us 25 % of the revenue from the planet, so what?
 
I don't understand your point. They give us 25 % of the revenue from the planet, so what?

No, not revenue, gross revenue. MA has costs on their 50% part. From that they must be able to cover their own running cost, our 25% withdraws and make a profit on their own.
 
If I understand it correctly they arent planning to make a real ROI IRL from our cash. They are just pushing debt to future users (old and new) I think its called a pyramid something :dunce:

i dont think you do understand. there is no debt, they sell us a consideration in the revenue stream, there is no promise to return the original price of the deed in the future. they will of course make a return from the cash, it will flow to their accounts (even if you dont deposit, the "unconsumed player holdings" line will reduce), and there fore it would show up in any ROI calculation in the accounts for this and next year.
 
small calculation

Based on the vote how much deeds players will buy, I did a little math, with interesting result.

Link to the vote

Somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that there won´t be more than 6000 really active accounts, my math is based on that number thrown in the room!

Another assumption is, that the vote is close to representative (what may be a fault)

Then we come to these numbers:

30,31% buying 1 deed = 1818,6 players = 1818,6 Deeds
7,81% buying 5 deeds = 468,6 players = 2343 Deeds
12,81% buying 10 deeds = 768,6 players = 7686 Deeds
5% buying 20 deeds = 300 players = 6000 Deeds
2,81% buying 50 deeds = 168,6 players = 8430 Deeds
0,63% buing 100 deeds = 37,6 players = 3760 Deeds
7,81% buing 100+ deeds = 468,6 players = 47328 Deeds (calculated with only 101 deeds/player)


That sums up to :
77365,6 Deeds

It looks like the demand for deeds is higher than the supply, remeber only 60k deeds available.

If the assumption of 6000 aktive players and a representative vote is right, then MA surely will sell all deeds!
 
Based on the vote how much deeds players will buy, I did a little math, with interesting result.

Link to the vote

Somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that there won´t be more than 6000 really active accounts, my math is based on that number thrown in the room!

Another assumption is, that the vote is close to representative (what may be a fault)

Then we come to these numbers:

30,31% buying 1 deed = 1818,6 players = 1818,6 Deeds
7,81% buying 5 deeds = 468,6 players = 2343 Deeds
12,81% buying 10 deeds = 768,6 players = 7686 Deeds
5% buying 20 deeds = 300 players = 6000 Deeds
2,81% buying 50 deeds = 168,6 players = 8430 Deeds
0,63% buing 100 deeds = 37,6 players = 3760 Deeds
7,81% buing 100+ deeds = 468,6 players = 47328 Deeds (calculated with only 101 deeds/player)


That sums up to :
77365,6 Deeds

It looks like the demand for deeds is higher than the supply, remeber only 60k deeds available.

If the assumption of 6000 aktive players and a representative vote is right, then MA surely will sell all deeds!

one major flaw is that many of those who said they were going to buy xxx deeds obviously need to sell some items first ( the increased numbers of high end gear in au supports this )

and as it seems , sales are moving slow and with prices dropping.

i still think its a bit optimistic to think that all deeds will sell in a resonable time frame.

i do hope they do though, since it would benefit all players, even those who dont have any deeds.

cheers

ermik
 
If the assumption of 6000 aktive players and a representative vote is right, then MA surely will sell all deeds!

besides , if the 6000 active player count is correct , then we have bigger problems on our hands. atleast when it comes to confidence in markup on "rare" items ( that are highly priced due to the relation between number of players and number of items ingame )
 
I must admit that there have been a significant amount of non-sense posts lately about deeds without any knowledge in investment. Please at least learn or study a bit about investment, shares, etc before posting your opinions because you do not understand what you are talking about.
 
Based on the vote how much deeds players will buy, I did a little math, with interesting result.

Link to the vote

Somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that there won´t be more than 6000 really active accounts, my math is based on that number thrown in the room!

Another assumption is, that the vote is close to representative (what may be a fault)

Then we come to these numbers:

30,31% buying 1 deed = 1818,6 players = 1818,6 Deeds
7,81% buying 5 deeds = 468,6 players = 2343 Deeds
12,81% buying 10 deeds = 768,6 players = 7686 Deeds
5% buying 20 deeds = 300 players = 6000 Deeds
2,81% buying 50 deeds = 168,6 players = 8430 Deeds
0,63% buing 100 deeds = 37,6 players = 3760 Deeds
7,81% buing 100+ deeds = 468,6 players = 47328 Deeds (calculated with only 101 deeds/player)


That sums up to :
77365,6 Deeds

It looks like the demand for deeds is higher than the supply, remeber only 60k deeds available.

If the assumption of 6000 aktive players and a representative vote is right, then MA surely will sell all deeds!

Nice post but but I see a problem with it (as you point out in the last line).

I dont think the ppl answering this poll are representative of the entire calypso population. Those answering this poll are likely more interested in the deeds and planning to buy some than the average calypsian.

So I think you overestimate the number of deeds that will be sold this way.
 
Nice post but but I see a problem with it (as you point out in the last line).

I dont think the ppl answering this poll are representative of the entire calypso population. Those answering this poll are likely more interested in the deeds and planning to buy some than the average calypsian.

So I think you overestimate the number of deeds that will be sold this way.

True + I think people on forum are more concerned about deeds than people not going on the forum.
 
Nice post but but I see a problem with it (as you point out in the last line).

I dont think the ppl answering this poll are representative of the entire calypso population. Those answering this poll are likely more interested in the deeds and planning to buy some than the average calypsian.

So I think you overestimate the number of deeds that will be sold this way.
Well, the calculation showed a demand for allmost 30% more shares then what is avalible. So even if the poll is not entirely representative I get the feeling most will be sold.

Allso, I think the 6k active players is a bit low... Just a gut feeling though so not worth much.
 
i dont think you do understand. there is no debt, they sell us a consideration in the revenue stream, there is no promise to return the original price of the deed in the future. they will of course make a return from the cash, it will flow to their accounts (even if you dont deposit, the "unconsumed player holdings" line will reduce), and there fore it would show up in any ROI calculation in the accounts for this and next year.

I see I kinda suck when it comes to explaining the flow of capital that I have in my head. Im not using the correct terms but if we where using the same economy lingo dictonary we would agree.

My equation is still valid. The effects are not magic. One of MA´s fears must be 1 big invester having to many deeds and actually withdrawing the ROI. Then the nerf and shafting of the big investor would begin. Like said before by someone, smaller investors most likely reinvest the peds. This part is the same regardless if ROI was 5% on 1k deeds since MA´s revenue would also shrink.

MA has no obligation to honor the withdraw service they offer.
MA doesnt have the hard cash that is the "unconsumed player holdings". To pay out that money in withdraws, future deposits are needed. That was what I ment with the debt thingy.

How much of the 6M or whatever MA gets from the sale(-FPC cut?) do you think will be in the company by this time next year?

All is based on MA actually selling 60k deeds.
 
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Why MA must be fear of big withdrawal from ROI? If MA does not sell deeds, those money still be taken away from the loot system eventually. So even if all 60k deeds owners withdraw all the ROI, the situation is just the same as before. No gain, no loss here.

If MA can sell all the deeds, MA get what they want already. 6MM USD surely is bigger than what they have invested so far in developing Calypso, and remember that MA still has their share in Calypso revenue (50%). From business point of view, this is a very good deal. Now they can develop new asset while still having share of earning from old asset.
 
Why MA must be fear of big withdrawal from ROI? If MA does not sell deeds, those money still be taken away from the loot system eventually. So even if all 60k deeds owners withdraw all the ROI, the situation is just the same as before. No gain, no loss here.

If MA can sell all the deeds, MA get what they want already. 6MM USD surely is bigger than what they have invested so far in developing Calypso, and remember that MA still has their share in Calypso revenue (50%). From business point of view, this is a very good deal. Now they can develop new asset while still having share of earning from old asset.

+ REP

very well said.

Its a win on most accounts. Now how well MA executes going forward is up to them. We can only speculate from past experiences and this is leading to some very heated, and passionate responses.

MA has done there part to increase the size of the team, and hopefully its quality of work. As well as to present a reasonable timeline for implementation going forward as not to disrupt the current important issues!

The most important thing is we continue to talk about things in a constructive matter, You bet that Q and A section came from valid questions and concerns we raised here. We can manage as a community to create a positive environment going foward.

Or we can question every move. Try to tear them down for past flaws and offer no solution to a better future? To the average outsider looking in it would look like chaos.

Lets do our best, every player in the community has a say, CALYPSO team now works for us, they will hear to YOU! So make your voices heard in a respectful way, and make sure you treat and respect the game.

gl all.
 
One of MA´s fears must be 1 big invester having to many deeds and actually withdrawing the ROI.

must they? then why haven't they limited the number of deeds an avatar can hold?
 
True + I think people on forum are more concerned about deeds than people not going on the forum.

THIS. ^^ I know ppl ingame who have bought tons of Land Deeds. However they are not the kind of ppl to post here. :yup:
 
THIS. ^^ I know ppl ingame who have bought tons of Land Deeds. However they are not the kind of ppl to post here. :yup:

Of course you can always find the opposite, but all in all i think people on forum is more concerned about deeds than people not going on forum.
 
My equation is still valid. The effects are not magic. One of MA´s fears must be 1 big invester having to many deeds and actually withdrawing the ROI. Then the nerf and shafting of the big investor would begin. Like said before by someone, smaller investors most likely reinvest the peds. This part is the same regardless if ROI was 5% on 1k deeds since MA´s revenue would also shrink.

Still don't get your point.

If MA had sell the planet to SEE, they would pay SEE 50 % of the revenue to them.
Now with the land plot deal they keep 75 % of the revenue, and maybe must pay out 25 % of the revenue to players who withdraw the ROI peds from the game. If the 25 % "planet partner" share is enough to cover the development cost for the planet they don't loose any more money than they should have by selling the planet "for real money".

You are right one thing, MA don't have the money to pay us if we all sold and withdraw all peds from the game, but that is an old problem and have not been effected by the land plot sell.
 
must they? then why haven't they limited the number of deeds an avatar can hold?

consider a cockup before a conspiracy, answer enough? Well to be more specific you think MA is giving out ROI every week to be kind? Hell no, its to get it in small doses so it gets spent. If you got a 1 time payment once a year alot more would be inclined to withdraw. The ROI program is designed so users wont be encouraged to actually withdraw the ROI.


Still don't get your point.

If MA had sell the planet to SEE, they would pay SEE 50 % of the revenue to them.
Now with the land plot deal they keep 75 % of the revenue, and maybe must pay out 25 % of the revenue to players who withdraw the ROI peds from the game. If the 25 % "planet partner" share is enough to cover the development cost for the planet they don't loose any more money than they should have by selling the planet "for real money".

You are right one thing, MA don't have the money to pay us if we all sold and withdraw all peds from the game, but that is an old problem and have not been effected by the land plot sell.

You are now mixing 2 different things on how the revenue affect the game. The "outside" revenue doesnt create peds. This one does. Dont you see the difference here? (Good observation both of you though! :))

I handing over the torch for someone better suited to explain.
 
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