Do you have hopes to Withdraw from game?

[VoidheadJosie]

I am on Calypso and I would like to buy Viceroy off someone please

thank you

 

[Svarog]

I am on Calypso and I would like to buy Viceroy off someone please

thank you

You didn't read the thread, did you? Hell, you didn't read even the op's post.

 

[SpikeBlack]

I've never wanted to complete a full set of gremlin.. even though it works fine for aurli and leviathan and other acid mobs. The full tt has always kept me from it.. But with this mission it didn't feel like a lot (I went back to caly with more peds than I came in with)

I think that's why it's been done as it has, could any new player ever hope to complete a set of Gremlin these days unless they're buying from someone selling a complete set.

And it's been linked to an individual to reduce tt weapon trading we saw when Ark launched i.e. no one buying up hundreds and then dropping them on the Caly auction.

 

[Farmer Smurf]

And it's been linked to an individual to reduce tt weapon trading we saw when Ark launched i.e. no one buying up hundreds and then dropping them on the Caly auction.

This^^ is exactly one of my problems with this armor..They took the "potiental" MU out of the hands of the players, and gave it to the PP developers..(don't they already get enough with the negative returns on all 3 systems?) The whole point of this RCE has always been, make your profit off other players...we should not have to compete against the house)

The other problem ofc being PRECIDENT but that horse has been ridden to death.

 

[Robin]

What I know from business is you start with a principal investment and then from that make a profit. If you withdraw a profit from this game as well as the principal investment then it was Worth to play it....If you had fun and didn't profit and lost your $ then it was also Worth the entertainment value..

 

[VoidheadJosie]

You didn't read the thread, did you? Hell, you didn't read even the op's post.

whats an op

 

[AxeMurderer]

whats an op

original post or original poster

 

[Peezle]

Ignore Josie, he is a small boy who likes to pull people's chains and think he is being smart, while everyone just laughs and takes pity.

However, Profit has made a point well worth thinking about.

Precedent.

Once one item becomes locked to the avatar and becomes unavailable to be converted into $, £, or Euros, we have the start of a dangerous move into denial. The denial that RCE means the free conversion of our virtual assets into real life assets.

If I hold onto my Gremlin for 5 yrs or 10 yrs is my choice. If I choose to sell it is also a choice.

David makes a statement that he speaks for us all, that we don't need to sell stuff, hell, we don't want to after all.

I would disagree. Choice David is the basic element of an RCE. Once you lock up one thing ingame, what next?

You need to think more broadly about the nature of RCE and what potential it offers, not to concern yourself with losing money but how you might gain it in a better environment.

 

[JD RACING]

the only problem here i see it you pay 700 for 400 ped value they should at least give you back the tt value you use it and decays and you repair it you should get what left in tt when tt

from what i see whit this it not worst than poeple making profit on other people the only thing its the devolper that get the profit maybe he can use that too make better things


i buaght tiger amour 4 year ago and it half the price so i dont see any differance here just give the tt back when you get the amour

and like other posted

the stuf baught at tt therminal shouldnt be alowed to be sold at auction it was like that long ago

that a ripp off to new players

 

[KijkkiJikki]

I don't agree that a precedent has been set with this armour.

We already had a range of items that were avatar bound and could not be redeemed for peds. This armour has the the advantage of being very useful (I think most players would agree that gremlin is an armour of choice for many mobs and this armour is basically equivalent to gremlin) and it is also repairable where most of the other bound items are L. It's not new, it's just better.

Prior to the implementation of bound items we had attributes and, then later, attribute tokens. We do (or choose not to do ) missions at some cost that provide a reward of an attribute or a number of attribute tokens. Tokens can't be traded or TT'd. Attributes can't be chipped out and sold. But I don't think I have heard anyone complaining about untradable attributes being counter to the basic game concept. Really the only discussion is whether the attributes are worth the cost. Should one take the tokens or an increased skill reward (which is tradable). How is the attribute situation different to viceroy? Isn't this where the precedent was set?

 

[Peezle]

I don't agree that a precedent has been set with this armour.

We already had a range of items that were avatar bound and could not be redeemed for peds. This armour has the the advantage of being very useful (I think most players would agree that gremlin is an armour of choice for many mobs and this armour is basically equivalent to gremlin) and it is also repairable where most of the other bound items are L. It's not new, it's just better.

Prior to the implementation of bound items we had attributes and, then later, attribute tokens. We do (or choose not to do ) missions at some cost that provide a reward of an attribute or a number of attribute tokens. Tokens can't be traded or TT'd. Attributes can't be chipped out and sold. But I don't think I have heard anyone complaining about untradable attributes being counter to the basic game concept. Really the only discussion is whether the attributes are worth the cost. Should one take the tokens or an increased skill reward (which is tradable). How is the attribute situation different to viceroy? Isn't this where the precedent was set?

Attributes have always been static elements of the game, in a sense they are without ped value and only represent an avatar's time ingame and devotion to this or that profession.

Armour is an entirely different issue, since we are all familiar with ped values of removable / transferable virtual items. Once you begin to attach these elements, ones that should be removed, sold, traded, or otherwise converted into real world currency, there is a precedent set.

The precedent is that normally transferable items become unusable as real world currency. The next logical step is that a gun, clothing, plates, etc become fixed ingame and unable to be converted into $ or Euros or what have you.

Read David's statement carefully, it smacks of an investor who is losing money or not making enough and wants to fix his assets in-game and is limited to making one of two choices:

#1 Think broadly about the nature of an RCE and develop the concept to its fullest extent.

#2 Abandon the RCE concept and turn it into a closed space where cash equals virtual property that is non convertible.

 

[Few Scars]

The Arkadian skullcandy armour looks nice, but a player really needs to think before they invest Peds in an armour that is worth less in TT value than costs to make and can't be resold. Essentially I see it as a bad move. Luckily there are many UL armours which have similar or better stats.
I aborted all the skull candy missions when I realised the armour was bonded to the avatar. If the day comes and I leave the game, I want to be able to sell everything I own and withdraw not on TT value but Market value.

 

[Nor Alien]

If you can't laugh at a joke then it's time to rethink your priorities in life. This doom and gloom is exactly the reason most people don't post on this forum. And people wonder why the forum seems dead.

As for the topic, I will be getting a set of this armor, and I will still keep my gremlin.

For the poll, I voted no. If I get one of these elusive ATH's then most will stay in game and part will come out to cover what I have spent. I may even buy some CLD's.

 

[Peezle]

If you can't laugh at a joke then it's time to rethink your priorities in life. This doom and gloom is exactly the reason most people don't post on this forum. And people wonder why the forum seems dead.

As for the topic, I will be getting a set of this armor, and I will still keep my gremlin.

For the poll, I voted no. If I get one of these elusive ATH's then most will stay in game and part will come out to cover what I have spent. I may even buy some CLD's.

Nor Alien, I mistook you for a free thinker. Apparently I was mistaken. It's easy to shrug off concerns by claiming everything is a joke. Hell, I think the armour is good too. But did you grasp the essential point of what some were saying? Did it dawn on you that your freedom to invest in and out of the game is being compromised? Do you care? If someone put chains on your ankles and said it was to help you walk better, would you feel safer?

Did you consider that an RCE has meaning, or is it just a random string of letters?

At least some who argued against the idea of precedent made an argument, you just strung up some smileys as if that was an answer. Get a grip.

 

[KijkkiJikki]

Attributes have always been static elements of the game, in a sense they are without ped value and only represent an avatar's time ingame and devotion to this or that profession.

Are they really without ped value? These days in missions you have a choice to take attribute tokens and skills
or just skills. The difference in TT value between skills only and skills + tokens is the opportunity cost associated with accepting the tokens. With the cost to complete the mission often being significant and the MU cost of the associated skill, it is reasonable to look at the MU cost of the forgone skill as opportunity cost of the tokens. I submit that attributes have a significant ped value that cannot be redeemed in any way. And yet people still choose to take that option.

Armour is an entirely different issue, since we are all familiar with ped values of removable / transferable virtual items. Once you begin to attach these elements, ones that should be removed, sold, traded, or otherwise converted into real world currency, there is a precedent set.

The precedent is that normally transferable items become unusable as real world currency. The next logical step is that a gun, clothing, plates, etc become fixed ingame and unable to be converted into $ or Euros or what have you.

But that precedent was already set by the introduction of earlier items that were avatar bound. Nothing has changed except we now have access to an avatar bound item that is actually usable for the life of the avatar and, if used sensibly will contribute to efficient play.

I would prefer it could be TT'd but that is unfortunately a game mechanics issue. Right now, avatar bound items cannot be TT'd. Hopefully that will change in the future.

Read David's statement carefully, it smacks of an investor who is losing money or not making enough and wants to fix his assets in-game and is limited to making one of two choices:

#1 Think broadly about the nature of an RCE and develop the concept to its fullest extent.

#2 Abandon the RCE concept and turn it into a closed space where cash equals virtual property that is non convertible.

I have a pretty good idea of David's vision for Arkadia and EU and you are off the mark. We are being offered more choice. Even if the viceroy is wildly successful it does not indicate a plan to abandon traceable gear within a real cash economy. Arkadia Devs are testing the water for this mission and if it is well received then yes there will be future missions of this type but it wont be the dominant feature of the game and nor can we expect avatar bound items to be a significant proportion of items. I believe it will always be possible to play successfully without acquiring avatar bound items, if that is the way you want to play.

 

[Peezle]

Are they really without ped value? These days in missions you have a choice to take attribute tokens and skills
or just skills. The difference in TT value between skills only and skills + tokens is the opportunity cost associated with accepting the tokens. With the cost to complete the mission often being significant and the MU cost of the associated skill, it is reasonable to look at the MU cost of the forgone skill as opportunity cost of the tokens. I submit that attributes have a significant ped value that cannot be redeemed in any way. And yet people still choose to take that option.



But that precedent was already set by the introduction of earlier items that were avatar bound. Nothing has changed except we now have access to an avatar bound item that is actually usable for the life of the avatar and, if used sensibly will contribute to efficient play.

I would prefer it could be TT'd but that is unfortunately a game mechanics issue. Right now, avatar bound items cannot be TT'd. Hopefully that will change in the future.




I have a pretty good idea of David's vision for Arkadia and EU and you are off the mark. We are being offered more choice. Even if the viceroy is wildly successful it does not indicate a plan to abandon traceable gear within a real cash economy. Arkadia Devs are testing the water for this mission and if it is well received then yes there will be future missions of this type but it wont be the dominant feature of the game and nor can we expect avatar bound items to be a significant proportion of items. I believe it will always be possible to play successfully without acquiring avatar bound items, if that is the way you want to play.

I understand your thoughts, but what we have is the opening of a window into new ways to invest in EU, you are arguing with yourself what will or will not be a dominant feature of the game. My point is that fixable virtual items should not even be contemplated - for an instant - as a feature of the game.

Accepting one instance, however insignificant it seems at the moment, is a giant step to oblivion for the RCE concept. I am not saying I know as much as you about Arkadia, or EU in general. But what I am arguing for is that we do not allow a single step away from the free flow of investment ( in or out ) within the whole concept of an RCE.

Attributes are static, they have always been so, they are status symbols only, and everyone has always accepted this and happily spent peds to boost these numbers. Nobody ever thinks of using attributes as fluid items to shift currency out of the game, but they do think of everything else ( without exception ) as usable in game or in real life.

This is not arguing for argument's sake but to fix the idea that an RCE loses its meaning once we accept that this item or that is no longer a fluid object. Think back to when amps were fixed to 50% of the gun's damage. How everyone moaned and then accepted it. Think what this cost over time to the player. Think that today we say 'hey, it is only this or that I cannot sell back to RL'. Then another thing. Then another.

After a while RCE becomes just nothing at all. It is not about one set of armour, but what it represents.

 

[KijkkiJikki]

My point is that fixable virtual items should not even be contemplated - for an instant - as a feature of the game.

You may be correct. Could be terrible. However my point is we have had this concept in the game prior to the introduction of viceroy. I've already discussed other avatar bound items in this context. But its now that people are making a fuss.

As to my attitude to avatar bound items in general, well I'm opposed, although it does deal with some issues around gold farming.

But I am a reality based player. There are a number of things that have been implemented in EU that I think are just a bad idea. Prime example for me is the enabling of piracy as a means to regulate and differentiate planetary economies. An unethical and unwise move in my view. (Let's not get into discussion of piracy here though - it's just an example).

When changes happen in the game I have my say but I then go on to look at how it impacts my play and the play of others. Is it something to leverage, mitigate or ignore. Whatever it is, it probably isn't the end of the world/game. People said that about L equipment, lootable space, more planets, sib changes to weapons, and who knows what else. It seems that we manage to muddle along.

So now we have viceroy. I don't think it's a path I would have taken and I would rather it was tradeable. But it's avatar bound. On that basis I choose whether or not to acquire it myself. I look at the potential impact on my armour crafting business and adjust my business plan accordingly. Bottom line is I have confidence in the longevity of EU and the things I want to achieve here. In life and in EU shit happens. By all means work for change but also deal with what is and aim to wrest satisfaction and enjoyment from the situation you are in.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

 

[Nor Alien]

Nor Alien, I mistook you for a free thinker. Apparently I was mistaken. It's easy to shrug off concerns by claiming everything is a joke. Hell, I think the armour is good too. But did you grasp the essential point of what some were saying? Did it dawn on you that your freedom to invest in and out of the game is being compromised? Do you care? If someone put chains on your ankles and said it was to help you walk better, would you feel safer?

Did you consider that an RCE has meaning, or is it just a random string of letters?

At least some who argued against the idea of precedent made an argument, you just strung up some smileys as if that was an answer. Get a grip.

Nope but don't recall saying everything is a joke. Maybe you misread what I wrote?!


What I said was that if you can't laugh at a joke when one is presented, then maybe you need to rethink how your leading your life. There is more to life then this game. Smile once in a while it really does give you a fresh perspective.

In any case, I understand the concept at hand. I even understand the validity of how this could harm the game if it were to go down the route of many things being bonded to the avatar. What I don't see is the proof that this is even in the cards for the future of EU. You either have read too much into it, or you know someone from MA that has told you something we don't know. Otherwise it is just conjecture and fear mongering.

I thought you were better then spreading rumours and conjectures. Maybe I was wrong.

Oh and go fuck yourself with the get a grip comment!!

 

[Peezle]

You may be correct. Could be terrible. However my point is we have had this concept in the game prior to the introduction of viceroy. I've already discussed other avatar bound items in this context. But its now that people are making a fuss.

As to my attitude to avatar bound items in general, well I'm opposed, although it does deal with some issues around gold farming.

But I am a reality based player. There are a number of things that have been implemented in EU that I think are just a bad idea. Prime example for me is the enabling of piracy as a means to regulate and differentiate planetary economies. An unethical and unwise move in my view. (Let's not get into discussion of piracy here though - it's just an example).

When changes happen in the game I have my say but I then go on to look at how it impacts my play and the play of others. Is it something to leverage, mitigate or ignore. Whatever it is, it probably isn't the end of the world/game. People said that about L equipment, lootable space, more planets, sib changes to weapons, and who knows what else. It seems that we manage to muddle along.

So now we have viceroy. I don't think it's a path I would have taken and I would rather it was tradeable. But it's avatar bound. On that basis I choose whether or not to acquire it myself. I look at the potential impact on my armour crafting business and adjust my business plan accordingly. Bottom line is I have confidence in the longevity of EU and the things I want to achieve here. In life and in EU shit happens. By all means work for change but also deal with what is and aim to wrest satisfaction and enjoyment from the situation you are in.

Regards,
KikkiJikki

KikkiJikki,

I appreciate you think broadly on these issues.

I also cannot accept piracy either for example as a legitimate element of the game, which only serves to make interplanetary travel more fraught than it should be and slows down trade and interaction.

These are elements we can accept and circumvent, but they don't fundamentally change the nature of the game.

What does change the essence of the game is where our initial investment into Entropia was premised on the idea that all the skills and equipment we acquired were freely to be used or sold. Either to upgrade or to convert into real life cash.

Once one item ( excluding attributes ) is no longer available to be used in this way, it diminished the RCE concept that EU has based its uniqueness on. In essence, the game is degraded by marking out one thing or another as excluded from the free transfer of peds in and out of the game.

My concern is that EU ( and its composite PPs ) are trying to re-balance the game so that more investment on our part remains in-game, This fundamentally destroys the basis of the game we bought into. Even a single example, such as Viceroy, challenges what we have so long invested in and played alongside. I do no say it is the start of a downward shift, but that even one single example is a thorn in the side of a true RCE.

I am purist about RCE and wonder why there is any need to undermine the idea we all bought into.

 

[Nor Alien]

KikkiJikki,

I appreciate you think broadly on these issues.

I also cannot accept piracy either for example as a legitimate element of the game, which only serves to make interplanetary travel more fraught than it should be and slows down trade and interaction.

These are elements we can accept and circumvent, but they don't fundamentally change the nature of the game.

What does change the essence of the game is where our initial investment into Entropia was premised on the idea that all the skills and equipment we acquired were freely to be used or sold. Either to upgrade or to convert into real life cash.

Once one item ( excluding attributes ) is no longer available to be used in this way, it diminished the RCE concept that EU has based its uniqueness on. In essence, the game is degraded by marking out one thing or another as excluded from the free transfer of peds in and out of the game.

My concern is that EU ( and its composite PPs ) are trying to re-balance the game so that more investment on our part remains in-game, This fundamentally destroys the basis of the game we bought into. Even a single example, such as Viceroy, challenges what we have so long invested in and played alongside. I do no say it is the start of a downward shift, but that even one single example is a thorn in the side of a true RCE.

I am purist about RCE and wonder why there is any need to undermine the idea we all bought into.

Now that is something that I can understand. Very well written.

I understand where your coming from. I don't agree with it, but it does give food for thought. I guess we will see in time wether or not your concerns are valid or your going to be pleasantly surprised. Either way, lets hope they are watching.

 

[Peezle]

Oh and go fuck yourself with the get a grip comment!!

The closing statement of a writer is usually the most telling of his character, or lack thereof.

Congratulations in only being able to summon out of 1 million words these few. It's easy to be rude. Much harder to be humble.

 

[Peezle]

Now that is something that I can understand. Very well written.

I understand where your coming from. I don't agree with it, but it does give food for thought. I guess we will see in time wether or not your concerns are valid or your going to be pleasantly surprised. Either way, lets hope they are watching.

Peace returns to us then Nor I am happy for that at least.

 

[Nor Alien]

The closing statement of a writer is usually the most telling of his character, or lack thereof.

Congratulations in only being able to summon out of 1 million words these few. It's easy to be rude. Much harder to be humble.

It was a joke. Since your last statement was get a grip, I assumed you were joking, and replied in kind. Seems I was wrong.

Either way, since you don't know me from a hole in the ground, I won't put too much into your statement of my character save this: All those books you've read by simply reading the cover have added greatly to your understanding of people. Try listening/reading instead of judging.

Man is this going way off topic. My apologies to the op.

 

[Magyar_Republic]

 

[Nor Alien]

Peace returns to us then Nor I am happy for that at least.

Agreed. If your in my neck of the woods, the first drink is on me.

 

[Peezle]

It was a joke. Since your last statement was get a grip, I assumed you were joking, and replied in kind. Seems I was wrong.

Either way, since you don't know me from a hole in the ground, I won't put too much into your statement of my character save this: All those books you've read by simply reading the cover have added greatly to your understanding of people. Try listening/reading instead of judging.

Man is this going way off topic. My apologies to the op.

We have + repped each other enough now, so be quiet. We all misread things. So let us both shut up

The ops' post is not the issue, but Profits, who made it all relevant.

 

[Futurama]

I kinda agree with Pezzle - it could potentially be a precedent for more bound items in future. Although I don't think it fits in EU very well. In most other MMOs where you make money out of thin air, it's no problem - you buy whatever you want/need and destroy it when it becomes useless, because you have made enough money for other stuff.

But here - you more or less just give away 70 dollars for nothing. Well, it's still a choice I guess... But I doubt it will catch on, maybe just a few event items, that's all.

 

[VoidheadJosie]

Ignore Josie, he is a small boy who likes to pull people's chains and think he is being smart, while everyone just laughs and takes pity

Better that than being a wanker on a soap box m8

 

[jetsina]

I kinda agree with Pezzle - it could potentially be a precedent for more bound items in future. Although I don't think it fits in EU very well. In most other MMOs where you make money out of thin air, it's no problem - you buy whatever you want/need and destroy it when it becomes useless, because you have made enough money for other stuff.

But here - you more or less just give away 70 dollars for nothing. Well, it's still a choice I guess... But I doubt it will catch on, maybe just a few event items, that's all.

I also agree with Peezle. I know it isn't the first bound item, but afaik, the others have been freebies for newbs and I accept the argument of anti-farming measures for them.

Some people may be unaware that the items cannot even be sold at tt value afaik - as well as being untradeable. I hope ppl who got pieces without knowing this write support cases saying this is the case. The initial rush to get them probably included many who did not know - it is not a sign of approval!

Now I assume people could decay them down against weaker and weaker mobs (as protection drops), but I still don't like it! If there next comes an item without a parallel equivalent (function, not looks), are we then forced to decide which disadvantage to live with (those who disagree with the principle of bound items becoming more available)? A planet partner that goes further down this path is NOT one I will be happy with, and I'm stating that now.

I know this is a pretty specific point discussed here, but it is all on topic as it affects the very RCE concept which enables us to withdraw (or hope to) in the first place! If there is another thread on a forum that partner devs are more likely to read, then please feel free to quote this post there....

 

[RickEngland]

The option to withdraw is very important to me.

Every player has their view point, however I think that view point changes as the sums you have paid in over the years expands.

I'm not keen on these new "bound" items, that said if I could get hold of shadow armour for locking up $100 or so, I'd probably take the option.

Since my sale of most of my unlimited items, I've been running L laser carbines and L fap. No pressure thnking about the investment in gear, lovely and relaxing...can take the game or leave it.

Rick