Question: Does Sweat Gatherer Skill affect sweat pull per try

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Does a higher level in sweat gatherer mean you pull out more sweat in a single try then someone at a lower sweat gatherer level ?
 

RobBuona

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No it does not.
 

Ludvig|MindArk

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Nope.

However, I am quite sure that (at least pre-VU10) you'd get more sweat while sweating the same mob as someone with a lower SG profession level. This since I got a lot more sweat than my friend who was sweating the same mobs for the same amount of time but had less than half my level in SG at that time.
 

mastermesh

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Nope.

However, I am quite sure that (at least pre-VU10) you'd get more sweat while sweating the same mob as someone with a lower SG profession level. This since I got a lot more sweat than my friend who was sweating the same mobs for the same amount of time but had less than half my level in SG at that time.
are you sure that wasn't evade playing a part since he kept dying more than you so collected fewer bottles?
 

Ludvig|MindArk

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are you sure that wasn't evade playing a part since he kept dying more than you so collected fewer bottles?
Actually he had higher evade and health than me (as he was a hunter and I was a non-depo sweater back then)
 

Falagor

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Nope.

However, I am quite sure that (at least pre-VU10) you'd get more sweat while sweating the same mob as someone with a lower SG profession level. This since I got a lot more sweat than my friend who was sweating the same mobs for the same amount of time but had less than half my level in SG at that time.
I agree that i have noticed something similar. However there are times when i get less than person with much less SG prof level (with similar evade standings).

Best way to actually test this would be making long term test on this one:
  • two friends with significant difference in SG level and similar evade levels (i.e. 35 vs 10 SG and 20 vs 20 Evader) get together and decide to sweat-hunt same small mob together (best would be Combibo youngs i would sugest).
  • they decide either to use synch or not use it all the time.
  • they sweat-dry and kill together trying to sweat similar time (so if one goes for cig break, snd stops for a while too).
  • they sweat at least 100k sweat (10k would definetly be not enough because i tend to see difference in sweat/hour gathering even at 2k sweat gathered thats ~4hours).

If yo have friend who is patient enough - do this ;).

Since it is rather hard to prove to be honest i will tend to think that higher level has on influence no sweat gathering (and will explain it with better evade and more real experience in gathering :laugh:).

Falagor
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Definitely. A few days ago i was only able to sweat 1-3 bottles per time. Now I usually sweat 2-4 bottles. Yes, I im a noob that started playing this game a week ago. No idea why everyone is saying no to this question.
 

Chrome

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Definitely. A few days ago i was only able to sweat 1-3 bottles per time. Now I usually sweat 2-4 bottles. Yes, I im a noob that started playing this game a week ago. No idea why everyone is saying no to this question.
Everyone is saying "no" to this question because that is the answer. :)

The folks answering are experienced players, while you're a noob that started playing a week ago... soon enough you'll realize that you'll NEVER get "better" at sweating, and that the "skill" is nothing more than a number to show how much time you've wasted in Entropia Universe. :eyecrazy:
 

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It's 1-4 per successful pull now.

Pre VU 10.0 (2009) it was 2-22 per successful pull

Your sweat gathering skill wont affect this.



Happy sweating!

:sweat:
 

Ender409

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Everyone is saying "no" to this question because that is the answer. :)

The folks answering are experienced players, while you're a noob that started playing a week ago... soon enough you'll realize that you'll NEVER get "better" at sweating, and that the "skill" is nothing more than a number to show how much time you've wasted in Entropia Universe. :eyecrazy:
Absolutely! I've been sweatting for quite a bit now, and can tell you with no reservations that SG level has absolutely nothing to do with the action. Which may lead to a question about.. say.. longblades. If the SG points are meaningless, who says that others are? And if they are, which ones? Or is it only sweatting that's getting the shaft? Hmmm?
 

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Absolutely! I've been sweatting for quite a bit now, and can tell you with no reservations that SG level has absolutely nothing to do with the action. Which may lead to a question about.. say.. longblades. If the SG points are meaningless, who says that others are? And if they are, which ones? Or is it only sweatting that's getting the shaft? Hmmm?
Well, this is a controversial statement, to say the least. Everyone knows SG means jackshit when it comes to pull rate, but they cling onto other skills as if they are important and meaningful.

This said, with mod loot I am starting to think you are correct and skills mean less and less. They have meant little for miners for a long time. Big mob hunters too probably have wondered what the hell it means when they grind for 6 hours and see a nub get a fat corn or argo. Even crafting now seems to be devalued. So, yes, maybe so.
 

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It used to be that it once you got enough SG skill you reached a cap and could no longer sweat. If you dabbled in other MF area's the cap came in at a lower SG skill than others just sweating.

When it was 2-22 and I was sweating atrox at Zychion we would count the sweat we collected in all chat so that the next runner could turret the dry and a runner or two pull a fresh one. They had set amounts of sweat per maturity so it was easy to maximize your efforts doing so.
 

Venture Bros

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It used to be that it once you got enough SG skill you reached a cap and could no longer sweat. If you dabbled in other MF area's the cap came in at a lower SG skill than others just sweating.

When it was 2-22 and I was sweating atrox at Zychion we would count the sweat we collected in all chat so that the next runner could turret the dry and a runner or two pull a fresh one. They have set amounts of sweat per maturity so it was easy to maximize your efforts doing so.
Fix. Sweat = Hp
 

Akbar

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However, I am quite sure that (at least pre-VU10) you'd get more sweat while sweating the same mob as someone with a lower SG profession level...
NO,

Not a single VU since the sweat limit was uncapped gave better results to higher skilled player.

Never...
 

Thark

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hey,

just to be absolutely clear: so sweat gathering doesn't do anything and is just a left over from the times there was a 1000 cap for collecting sweat (don't remember the number but there was some cap when i started)

it the spirit of beeing dynamic, this may change at some point in time though.

correct me if i'm wrong

Regards
Thark
 

Akbar

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...there was a 1000 cap....
The cap in the project entropia time was linked to how your avatar was skilled.
For the biggest majority of players, who were at first playing by only sweating,
this cap was near 110-120 skill points.

I for myself stopped at 97.

Later they increased this cap to around 210, I think Mega could find this info somewhere.

Later after this, to annouce the 500k accounts in the game,
Mindark uncapped the skill limit.
 

Falagor

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(...)
it the spirit of beeing dynamic, this may change at some point in time though.
(...)
I would not count on that. Sweat is suposed to give newbies something to start with. MA plan is: they should try the game, hook up and deposit.

Players with +4k sweat gathering skill are not sweating for profit obviously - there are much better ways to make profit than sweating. They are doing it becaue they actually like sweating and enjoy it or simply for achivement (gif... meh... mor... SG... points... - must... beat... others!).

Now imagine if player with +4k would be getting like +50% more sweat (seems rasonable amount) comapred to total newbie. This would crash the sweat market in less than 1 month and obvisouly things are not good in this area even now.

Notice that i am one of the +4k SG players and this change would deifnetly would be good for me i still think this is bad idea.

Falagor
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Akbar

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Notice that i am one of the +4k SG players and this change would deifnetly would be good for me i still think this is bad idea.
I heard rumors saying they will only give an advantage to people over 4.5k SG.

Too bad for you Falagor ;););).
 

Cron

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Sweat = Hp

That it does. The point of what i was saying is it was easy at 2 -22 to have a group track when it would be dry. I don't know of anytime they didn't have a set amount :scratch2:

Anymore the sweat tool cycles so quickly that less time is lost finding its dry and also its easier to aggro a new mob to a group with the tool than with the chant. Counting 1-4 seems to matter much less.
 

Falagor

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That it does. The point of what i was saying is it was easy at 2 -22 to have a group track when it would be dry. I don't know of anytime they didn't have a set amount :scratch2:

Anymore the sweat tool cycles so quickly that less time is lost finding its dry and also its easier to aggro a new mob to a group with the tool than with the chant. Counting 1-4 seems to matter much less.
Tbh i really miss the old system.
Pros:
  • like you siad it was harder to agro mob. So sometimes you coudl sweat dry small mob before creature even noticed it.
  • when the green ray started you could move around not worring too much about loosign concentration. Only limitation was - youneeded to stay in the range of the green ray, which wasnt that hard to do.
  • some mobs could be solo sweated easily without being hit. You jsut chanted - started green ray and started running away. So far i know only one mob that can be sweated in similar way now.
  • Less (actually none) concentration breaks.
Cons:
  • realy annoying to get like 10 times 2-5 bottles per pull in a row.

Sweat / hour is quite similar now and then (~500 bottles/hour)

Pros of new system - i dont see any :(.

Falagor
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valentin

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The cap in the project entropia time was linked to how your avatar was skilled.
For the biggest majority of players, who were at first playing by only sweating,
this cap was near 110-120 skill points.

I for myself stopped at 97.

Later they increased this cap to around 210, I think Mega could find this info somewhere.

Later after this, to annouce the 500k accounts in the game,
Mindark uncapped the skill limit.
My Avatar was born in April 2006 and i remeber that the cap was att 207 then.:sweat:
 

Billy Jean Ruby

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Everyone is saying "no" to this question because that is the answer. :)

The folks answering are experienced players, while you're a noob that started playing a week ago... soon enough you'll realize that you'll NEVER get "better" at sweating, and that the "skill" is nothing more than a number to show how much time you've wasted in Entropia Universe. :eyecrazy:
I'm tottaly with you in that :)
a lvl 20 sweat gatherer/lvl 3 evader isn't going to get more sweat than a lvl 3 gatherer/ lvl 10 evader!
Instead the lvl 3 sweat gatherer but superior evader should get more sweat occasionaly due to have more attempts due to evade.
This already tested in game.
In the meantime, don't expect to gain enough evade points while you sweating!
If you want skills you loosing time by sweating!
 

BenCoyote

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It's all about percentages..

Well to put it mildly, I think the issue that we're all missing here is that where the old system was based on the 2-22 bottles per try the real issue here is really about percentages of success per try..

Let me explain..

Muchy like any crafter or any hunter everyone for a certain level gets a % for a base cance of creating an item or getting a hit with a specific rifle based on skill (When a hunter for example starts off with a Hit ability of 0.0 the base rate is 80%.. By the time you max out the gun the Percent hit rate is 90% (80+10) (and yes this is true due to the fact that it's the hit ability that determines the miss ratio...

Now then let's put this into the SG angle shall we?

If you take the base 80% and then factor in the fact that some of us are heading to the next Level of SG, the base chance of seccess is based on really the 80% + The SG Level /10...so a person like myself who is level 22, would have a base rate of about 82.2% success, compared to the base 80% when I started out at leel 0..

So if we extrapolate that forward, A Level 100% sweat gatheerer would eventually max out at exactly 90% (and anyone over 100 would not get any further increases due to the fact that the VSE 1 is maxed out (Much like your gun)

Now as for the amount.. While the old way was what I felt was unbalanced, the new way of sweating is really more fair and thus again it's again based on the skill based on your percentage rate of success

So if a Level 10 sweat gatherer has a combined success rate of 81% and a level 22 sweat gatherer has a base level of 82.2 % . who would be more sucessful to get sweat? The one with the hight skills of course..

But again I stress there would be a cap of around level 100, and this would be a 90% Sucess rate.. So yes, you'll still miss on ocasssion but 9 times out of 10 (or 90% of the time) you'd get a sucessful Pull (at least that is how I see it working..)

Benjamin Ben Coyote (Space Callsign "Coyote"
a.kl.a. "The Blind Sniper"
 

Norbert

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Well to put it mildly, I think the issue that we're all missing here is that where the old system was based on the 2-22 bottles per try the real issue here is really about percentages of success per try..

Let me explain..
...
...


Benjamin Ben Coyote (Space Callsign "Coyote"
a.kl.a. "The Blind Sniper"
Did a few tests back when Nea's was still active and higher sweat gatherer rank did seem to give more per hour (marginally). This explaination sounds about what we decided was happening, ie vse is oldskool level 0 (maxed at 100), and extra small % was about success of using tool.

Not long tests but try it yourselves, and tbh the extra sweat per hour isn't a lot :D.

+rep ben :)
 

bard119

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I agree that i have noticed something similar. However there are times when i get less than person with much less SG prof level (with similar evade standings).

Best way to actually test this would be making long term test on this one:
  • two friends with significant difference in SG level and similar evade levels (i.e. 35 vs 10 SG and 20 vs 20 Evader) get together and decide to sweat-hunt same small mob together (best would be Combibo youngs i would sugest).
  • they decide either to use synch or not use it all the time.
  • they sweat-dry and kill together trying to sweat similar time (so if one goes for cig break, snd stops for a while too).
  • they sweat at least 100k sweat (10k would definetly be not enough because i tend to see difference in sweat/hour gathering even at 2k sweat gathered thats ~4hours).
Better yet, sweat some and when you think you've gathered a big enough sample, compare your sweat rates per hour. Then (assuming it is someone you totally trust) switch characters, you play your friend's character and he plays yours, then compare again. This might take out any variables of player performance, since everyone has their own play habits.
 

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Sweat Theorising

Excuse the minor necro-post.

These discussions appears centers around the Sweat Gatherer level as a means to gauge the frequency of a successful sweat pull, or the level of evade to avoid combat damage from the sweated mob.

While high Evade may avoid a mob hit, one skill that I notice maintains a sweat pull more often as it increases even if the mob inflicts damage is Concentration. This aligns with increased sweating ability gained by using a Synch chip which is a Concentration buff - unless this is simply a coincidence in naming.

I do not have hard numbers to prove this theory but it is certainly noticeable as I have recently gained Concentration from starting to skill in some MF professions.
 

Mack Walker

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Interesting responses.


I hope the sweat gather skill does more than just show numbers.
It really should do links more frequent, event if just a slight bit.
 
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