doubt with efficiency...

Dante Inferno

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I have a doubt: we already know that the efficiency of a weapon is obtained through a formula that relates the DPS and the DPP (I do not know what the formula is, I can not relate them correctly) ...

And the fact of placing amplifiers / laser / etc? these additions also have efficiency, sometimes greater than the weapon where they are placed, but sometimes the overall performance is lower than that of the weapon ...

Two questions:

1) Does anyone have the real formula to calculate the efficiency of a weapon?

2) Does anyone know how to calculate the overall efficiency of the weapon / laser / amplifier / etc set? If there is a formula about it, what is it?
 

Xavier_Jr

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I have doubts that such a formula exists. The MA people said they made the efficiency to have more design freedom. And only at the beginning it would be equal to the DPP.
 

Angel O2 Mercer

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1) Does anyone have the real formula to calculate the efficiency of a weapon?
There is no formula, efficiency is a parameter. [ source ]

2) Does anyone know how to calculate the overall efficiency of the weapon / laser / amplifier / etc set? If there is a formula about it, what is it?
I don't think so, looks like some sort of averaging. I could be wrong.
 

Kerham

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we already know that the efficiency of a weapon is obtained through a formula that relates the DPS and the DPP
We don't, somebody told you wrong.

DPS, DPP and efficiency have zero determination one to another.

Efficiency is an absolutely arbitrary parameter of the weapon, handpicked by MA. At the initial installment, efficiency was chosen to be in a direct proportion with DPP, but that doesn't mean they are related. If you read the thread linked by sawachika you will see that the initial scaling used by MA DPP to eff is no longer respected. They used it as a guideline to keep the place in the weapon ecosystem of various already existant weapons.

One vital difference between them is that efficiency can ONLY be increased by attachements, while DPP can be increased by buffs such as +critdmg and +critchance.

The other vital difference is that efficiency affects directly the TT ROI over a sufficiently high enough number of events. And ONLY that. While DPP affects directly the loot composition (what that total TT loot is actually made of).

1) Does anyone have the real formula to calculate the efficiency of a weapon?
There is no such thing, is an entirely arbitrary parameter set by MA. If so they wish, they could release tomorrow a weapon with amazing DPP but 0 efficiency or a weapon with awful DPP but 100 efficiency.

2) Does anyone know how to calculate the overall efficiency of the weapon / laser / amplifier / etc set? If there is a formula about it, what is it?
EFF (set A+B) = ((EffA*CostA)+(EffB*CostB))/(CostA+CostB)

where "Cost" is in the entropiawiki sense, decay+ammo, whatever is spent per shot/swing etc. Obiously in tt terms only. If the decay is L and costs MU, is your place to do the math if is worthy.

Example:

Armatrix LP-55 eff 66 cost 17.2 pec
A 104 eff 82.3 cost 3.039

Eff LP-55+A104= ((66*17.2) + (82.3*3.039))/(17.2+3.039)

= (1135.2+250.1)/20.23= 1385,3/20,23= 68.5 (for actual exact result you need to do the math with 5 decimals and apply the rounding to first decimal)

The explanation of this formula is that:

- each part of the set contributes efficiency adjusted per its impact into the total cost
- because total turnover is made of the total cost and efficiency is strictly related to tt ROI of total turnover

That is why lasers with very high efficiency improve the efficiency with 0.1 or maybe nothing at all, because their actual cost (decay only usually) is extremely low.
 
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Jhereg

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To the second part, it is called a weighted average, the weight being the cost :)
 

allarom

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1) why?
2) why???

i need formula for the range parameter
 

mspatterson

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efficiency is an inherrant property of a weapon like a loot bonus added. completely unrelated and not connected to any other stats.

there is a reason it was added and that reason I suspect is to compensate for low dpp performance with loot2.
 

mspatterson

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Please elaborate on this theory?
The Efficiency parameter is not affected by avatar skills.
The largest components by far in loot value calculations are costs, such as weapon deterioration, ammo consumption, armor deterioration, healing costs, etc.
The Efficiency parameter is a relatively small component in loot calculations (no more than 7% of total loot value).
The displayed Efficiency parameter for a given weapon does not correspond to expected overall loot return.

https://www.entropiauniverse.com/bu.../Developer-Notes--12---Loot-2.0-Follow-Up.xml

theres more but im exhausted from trying to explain it lol. I shouldn't have opened my mouth here =p
 
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Kain Dewey Fall

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I will tell you what I have discovered about "efficiency" There is no formula to determine the efficiency of a weapon unless you are using one of those level 0 to 100 requirement weapons.
The efficiency of a weapon in killing a mob is based on your utilization of the weapon, not based on the weapon itself.
It was mentioned in the Developer Notes for Loot 2.0, efficiency, or loot gained from a mob, is determined on how well you show knowledge of the game mechanics. Quickly killing a mob, not overdamaging a mob, and utilizing tools efficiently instead of obsessively increases your loot increase chance(as mentioned in the Developer Notes), and playing productively rather than randomly increases your loot increase chance, "efficiency" such as contributing to skills and loot. A weapons "Efficiency" which is actually given on the weapon, is only a 7% loot increase chance. Nothing more.
So, in turn, whether or not a weapon is considered "efficient" and the equation related would be,
Does the weapon do enough damage and a DPS that eliminates the target within an efficient timeframe? Am I overkilling? Did I need to heal?
Keep in mind,
Such as with the level requirement 0 to 100 weapons, You should be asking yourself, is it worth it and am I getting good results from my use of gameplay with the weapon.
The developer notes said that your weapon stats should be maxed 10/10 to get the best results from a weapon, it reduces misses, evades, and low dmg hits. I personally believe that there is a manner of putting oneself in the game that also reduces miss/evade/ and low dmg chances. This could increase the volatility of a level requirement 0 to 100 weapon as well as solid level requirement weapons.
DPS,
Health of Mob,
Don't overkill,
Kill the mob as quickly as possible,
Heal as little as possible, (take advantage of stacking duration heals and not over-healing)

I mean, I will try to think of more,
But i don't think that weapons actually have a naturalized "ECO" rating that can be determined by an equation. Though there is one gun that says in the description "The gun is best used hunting animals"
 

Darth Revan

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theres more but im exhausted from trying to explain it lol. I shouldn't have opened my mouth here =p
Probably not, considering none of that relates to your theory: "that reason I suspect is compensate for low dpp performance with loot2.0"
 

Dante Inferno

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Thanks to everyone for the answers ... the formula of the combination of amplifier and weapon has been very useful.

Regarding the fact of efficiency, well, someone pointed at the beginning about another post where they had obtained the formula ... my curiosity has been satisfied.
 

Kain Dewey Fall

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Thanks to everyone for the answers ... the formula of the combination of amplifier and weapon has been very useful. Figured I would make it easily accessible to read for people who didn't catch it.

Regarding the fact of efficiency, well, someone pointed at the beginning about another post where they had obtained the formula ... my curiosity has been satisfied.
I actually really wanted to know the equation that determined how the efficiency of Amplifiers stack on the efficiency of weapons,

Here is the post to make it more easily traceable.

EFF (set A+B) = ((EffA*CostA)+(EffB*CostB))/(CostA+CostB)

where "Cost" is in the entropiawiki sense, decay+ammo, whatever is spent per shot/swing etc. Obiously in tt terms only. If the decay is L and costs MU, is your place to do the math if is worthy.

Example:

Armatrix LP-55 eff 66 cost 17.2 pec
A 104 eff 82.3 cost 3.039

Eff LP-55+A104= ((66*17.2) + (82.3*3.039))/(17.2+3.039)

= (1135.2+250.1)/20.23= 1385,3/20,23= 68.5 (for actual exact result you need to do the math with 5 decimals and apply the rounding to first decimal)
But if someone knows, Would be great if we could get the Equation for determining Efficiency stack on weapons with the efficiency from Scopes/sights also, as scopes and sights also have efficiency and can be put on weapons and I assume have less of an effect than Amps.
 

Darth Revan

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Equation for determining Efficiency stack on weapons with the efficiency from Scopes/sights also, as scopes and sights also have efficiency .
Wouldn't the scope/sight be the same formula as amp? as they have a decay even if its quite small.
+ (eff*cost) ... or does that not quite work out when applied? i think most scopes/sights have a very small influence on efficiency because they do not have a very high decay.
 

Slyk

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People are misusing the word 'stack' the real term should be dilution or averaged. Each item, and it's efficiency, decay and ammo use is a singular item and the output paid back at it's designated efficiency. Adding a 70% eff amp to a 90% eff gun, where both have the exact same ammo consumption, decay, will ofc print 80% eff on your combo. They have, in no way, stacked. They have averaged.

Adding an 80% scope isn't making your gun gain eff. You're just using an 80% eff item in addition to your existing weapon.
 

Jhereg

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People are misusing the word 'stack' the real term should be dilution or averaged. Each item, and it's efficiency, decay and ammo use is a singular item and the output paid back at it's designated efficiency. Adding a 70% eff amp to a 90% eff gun, where both have the exact same ammo consumption, decay, will ofc print 80% eff on your combo. They have, in no way, stacked. They have averaged.

Adding an 80% scope isn't making your gun gain eff. You're just using an 80% eff item in addition to your existing weapon.
Yep. Only semi exception is extenders
 

Kain Dewey Fall

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Wouldn't the scope/sight be the same formula as amp? as they have a decay even if its quite small.
+ (eff*cost) ... or does that not quite work out when applied? i think most scopes/sights have a very small influence on efficiency because they do not have a very high decay.
You are probably right, I had been awake for like 30 hours when I made that comment >_< :D
 

Kerham

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But if someone knows, Would be great if we could get the Equation for determining Efficiency stack on weapons with the efficiency from Scopes/sights also
It's the same.

bulls eye 8 cost 0.11 eff 83
adj military cost 13.292 eff 56,7

eff combo= ((0.11*83)+(13.292*56.7))/(0.11+13.292)=762.8/13.4=56.9

add an amp and an extender and laser/scope's contribution will lower even more in final eff
 

Kain Dewey Fall

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It seems that Sights and amps may have the same equation, but I am fairly certain scopes do not have the same equation.
I think it is strange that the Efficiency meter says that it ranges from 1% to 100%, but grindhouse sleaze is 0%. Someone report advertisement fraud! It happened again :/
 
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