DPP Test on tokens and boxes @ ~ 4.5 million PED cycle.

[Evey]

Prior to loot 2.0, DPP used to determine the tt return on each loot. Above a certain value, hunters could tt profit.
After loot 2.0 the DPP parameter helps with loot composition, according to MindArk:

DPP affects loot composition and critical hit/damage etc affect the DPP. Efficiency directly affects average TT return by 0-7%.

There is still a great deal of debate and every player has their own take on this. Mine is simple. DPP affects how much more or less shrapnel you will loot on top of what you were getting from the mob anyway.
For example, a great DPP will drop you a Mayhem Token, a strongbox and 1 PED TT shrapnel. A bad DPP will will drop you a Mayhem Token, a strongbox and 1.2 shrapnel. The composition of the first loot instance is obviously better. But that's it. It will not get you more stuff over the same time. Which is a thing some people may seem to believe.

I will not go into low efficiency & high DPP much because I'm not curious of testing because of a simple reason: cycles are too big, in order to have a clear data over a decent cycle woudl mean shooting half of year (over 4-5 million PED on a high DPS/cost tool). A tt loss on 5 million ped of 1.5% tt (due to 20% less eff) would mean 75k PED.

So the test we did was between two tools, on a combined cycle of approx 4.5mil ped, one high dps and high dpp and another less dps but still high and lower dpp. Not too low, but low enough to be considered an argument in some debates, and after such a debate on Discord I thought of writing the numbers down considering I have solid cycle. The actual number is hidden but the percentages are accurate.

Pretty obvious the amount of tokens and boxes is tied up to the dps. The DPP is a great perk whne EFF is high enough and DPS is the highest possible. Either of these 3 parameters alone with the other two being too low will make a significant hole in the pockets of a high cycle grinder imo. A good balance of the DPS and Eff is desirable because loot 2.0 weapons have high enough DPP to not be an argument. Some may have higher DPP but that was added so in order to soften a little the lack of Eff. If I were to underline the importance of each parameters in the overall outcome of a tool, I would say Eff is 40%, DPS is 40% and DPP is 20%.

 

[monkey lou]

From the numbers, it took a minute to decipher (obviously flows for you), DPS is 74.29% of wep 'A' (350) or an increase by 134.6% of wep 'b' etc, we then see an increase in boxes and tokens output by ~ 133%

*Extremely tired, need more sleep, so hopefully not gibberish in what I wrote

 

[anonimity]

assuming equivalent ped cycled on each weapon (which i'm not sure how to interpret 4.5M combined.. is that 2.5M on weapon 1 and 2.0M on weapon 2?) I would also want to see # of loot instances in this data set to draw more inferences. I agree that box/token drop is tied to DPS. What more DPP gets is more loot instances per $ cycled. so... the question to be answered is... does the # of loot instances matter? Or is it only $ cycled that matters?

 

[Jhereg]

A couple questions

1) Is your data one one specific category or does it mix categories?

2) I'm not 100% clear that the normalization factor is you are using on the % for strongboxes/tokens, is it total ped cycled or total damage?

 

[Shilda]

assuming equivalent ped cycled on each weapon (which i'm not sure how to interpret 4.5M combined.. is that 2.5M on weapon 1 and 2.0M on weapon 2?) I would also want to see # of loot instances in this data set to draw more inferences. I agree that box/token drop is tied to DPS. What more DPP gets is more loot instances per $ cycled. so... the question to be answered is... does the # of loot instances matter? Or is it only $ cycled that matters?

What box/token drop tied to DPS means ?
Not sure if is just me that is missing something or you guys not being very clear with what you trying to say.

 

[Evey]

- cycle split was ~2.5m/2
- cat 9/8(avg)
- 2nd tool has 75% of the dps of 1st tool, 85% dpp of first tool, 75% of looted tokens an 76% of looted boxes
- droprate tied to DPS instead of DPP.

 

[miathan]

I don't think this result is conclusive. Not because the cycle is low, it's plenty of cycle, but because the number of variables are too high.
I would be very surprised if DPS would be correlated to box/token rate like this. It's easy to draw premature conclusions just because you see two numbers that match up.

 

[Katie Chalmers]

It’s early in the morning for me but I can’t understand what I’m looking at lol.
Where is raw data of boxes/tokens per ped?

I think it would be better to test this using the same weapon, while having DPS/cat/efficiency all the same, or close to.

Setup A. No deva/accu, swap rings out too to remove crit buffs. 20% overamp, full damage enhancers

Setup B + 10mg deva,accu+ normal fitting amp. Replace damage enhancers as needed with accuracy to replace any gained DPS from setup A.

If there is enough difference between the setups without needing to have overamp maybe remove that, as to not introduce another variable of cycle cost/hour.

Fair fight then.

 

[fred5283]

Now tell us about rare tokens

 

[Evey]

It’s early in the morning for me but I can’t understand what I’m looking at lol.
Where is raw data of boxes/tokens per ped?

I think it would be better to test this using the same weapon, while having DPS/cat/efficiency all the same, or close to.

Setup A. No deva/accu, swap rings out too to remove crit buffs. 20% overamp, full damage enhancers

Setup B + 10mg deva,accu+ normal fitting amp. Replace damage enhancers as needed with accuracy to replace any gained DPS from setup A.

If there is enough difference between the setups without needing to have overamp maybe remove that, as to not introduce another variable of cycle cost/hour.

Fair fight then.

Better tests can always be done 100%. This is not a great test for sure. It's just numbers I've been crunching and decided to share the percentage. Some friends have the full data, I'm just not making those public...

 

[n1ghtmare1]

A factor I am not seeing discussed here is are the looter levels similar enough to not have an impact on the loot differences as well. MA has come out and said looter levels have a direct correlation with loot as well.

 

[Ranyard]

yes what about rares. thats where I'm stuck

 

[Evey]

A factor I am not seeing discussed here is are the looter levels similar enough to not have an impact on the loot differences as well. MA has come out and said looter levels have a direct correlation with loot as well.

Looter is not being discussed here because it has nothing to do with DPP or looting of items. TT return is not discussed either.

Rare tokens ... it's complicatedm you can loot 0 in a MM or you can loot 6 and looting them has nothing to do with any of the parameters mentioned here.

 

[DrGirlfriend]

Yea maybe your husband loots one in 10 minutes when you spend the entire month hunting and don’t get one. Rares are so random

 

[John B Knight]

I would like to understand your dpp figure and weighting better, did you consider defense cost and difference in avg overdmg between the setups ?
As the actual killefficiency would drop because of it making a potential dpp gap between different setups likely smaller.

 

[Dmatrix]

I would like to understand your dpp figure and weighting better, did you consider defense cost and difference in avg overdmg between the setups ?
As the actual killefficiency would drop because of it making a potential dpp gap between different setups likely smaller.

This. Assuming first weapon is a slow swinging Mod nano. And second is a higher rate shooting or swinging weapon. Your dpp might be much closer than the gap shown. Making this math somewhat invalid

 

[dabioka]

This. Assuming first weapon is a slow swinging Mod nano. And second is a higher rate shooting or swinging weapon. Your dpp might be much closer than the gap shown. Making this math somewhat invalid

From what im understanding on this stat is that dpp doesnot really matter a lot in mayhem. Dpp requirment is low to achieve the optimal loot. Dps is what is needed to get more tokens and boxes per ped spent.

Thanks for the sharing. It was also my thoughts on how mayhem worked and one of the reason i didnt plan to gather tokens this winter.

 

[Nanashana]

And adding to this if you had 2.5m vs 2m cycle differencr between the two setups you'd have to factor in the fact that the cycle difference is almost 20% which when adjusting puts the token drop amounts more at 93-94% of the higher dpp. Does that 7% diff in tokens become statistically significant at that level of cycle?

2.5m is in the ballpark of 350k kills, so probably that 15% dpp increase is being evidenced here. Though as JBK noted overkill and other factors will somewhat erode that back down again.

So my takeaway (as per my expectations), yes dpp does increase the token per cost rate. Probably linearly with dpp, but don't underestimate the impact of mob hp.

 

[Ferial]

disregard. Misread the post I quoted

 

[Evey]

I don't have the math for kill efficiency or other metrics ppl may be interested in, this is my data that I wanted to share along with my conclusion and the data pretty much follows the previous recorded data, which were Mod Nano paired with MM, LP100 paired with MM where I had less overkill.
This is my take on this topic, take it with a grain of salt and make your own judgment.

 

[PreyNaika]

From my unserstanding

(I wont go into math,just example to make Things understandable)
Dps will allow you to loot more Boxes and tokens because you can kill 10 mobs while with the other weapon you kill 8.5
So thats 1.5 more loot Events during same time

Since dpp does increase the % of what loot composition you get
You wont benefit with dpp over dps
Because: Loot Pool in event is schrp 90% tokens 6% Box 3.99% anything else 0.01%(no math just example)
So since you cant get more then one Box or one token out of one loot Event you kinda hit a very hard softcap on dpp

So baiscly the kill amount brings you more valueaable loot

Wuld be diferent outside of the Event because of larger lootcomposition and hardcap

Correct me if i'm wrong

 

[Ranyard]

nm reread all good here

 

[Evey]

Since dpp does increase the % of what loot composition you get
You wont benefit with dpp over dps
...
So since you cant get more then one Box or one token out of one loot Event you kinda hit a very hard softcap on dpp

So baiscly the kill amount brings you more valueaable loot

Exactly like that. But if you sacrifice eff it will hurt a lot more / make tokens and boxes a lot more expensive.

 

[PreyNaika]

Exactly like that. But if you sacrifice eff it will hurt a lot more / make tokens and boxes a lot more expensive.

Was about to edit my Post and add this too

 

[Tina Walther]

assuming equivalent ped cycled on each weapon (which i'm not sure how to interpret 4.5M combined.. is that 2.5M on weapon 1 and 2.0M on weapon 2?) I would also want to see # of loot instances in this data set to draw more inferences. I agree that box/token drop is tied to DPS. What more DPP gets is more loot instances per $ cycled. so... the question to be answered is... does the # of loot instances matter? Or is it only $ cycled that matters?

Why not both

 

[Legends]

- cycle split was ~2.5m/2
- cat 9/8(avg)
- 2nd tool has 75% of the dps of 1st tool, 85% dpp of first tool, 75% of looted tokens an 76% of looted boxes
- droprate tied to DPS instead of DPP.

I think the whole thing has a lot of merit and I see what you are trying to show but the visualisation is difficult, it took me a while to understand what numbers meant what exactly, the data could be shown in a way that's more intuitive and easier to understand.

One thing that's missing for me is the number of hours of hunting that the 2.5m and 2m peds of cycling actually represents. Because we know that the loot systerm drops items in waves and in order to make "# of waves" a lesser factor, duration is of the essence. For example if 2m cycled in Cat 9 represented 20 hours (just an example to illustrate my point), I don't think the data would be as meaning ful because it could just be the timing of that 20 hours had fewer waves in it then the timing of the 25 hours of the other weapon with higher DPS. And even if both happened simultaneously, the timingof the extra 5 hours of the higher DPS weapon could have been during a time of day notorious with having more waves of item drops.

Could you just speak a little to this point? How long of a cycle are we talking about, what time zones were the participants located in, etc...

 

[PengWinz]

Thank you as always Eve. Cross referencing and testing each others experiences is always welcomed.