EU 2.0 - What would you do differently?

Evey

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i wouldn't go that far.

I'd set non-multiplied loot to be 93% return of killcost. Near successes being 91%.
remove all multipliers smaller than times 20 and bigger than 250.

So it generally would give good return and when you get a multiplier, you get something big.

That's not that far?

I would like a volatility that low but it's a matter of personal preference I think.
A volatility that low would piss off the majority of hunters that don't grind, that only play casual for a couple of hours a day.

93% and only 20-250 multis, and I will assume a 97% tt return long term, which is very high and demands top equipment, would mean:

20 multi, on a 97% long term return but 93 avg, you need 485 mobs killed before you get one.
250 multi means ~6062 mobs.

485 young atrox (estimated at 3ped per kill), if EACH would give 93%, in the 486th you'd get a 60 peder, and that's 1450 ped between globals that small.
6k young atrox, 18k ped, if all of them would give 93% and only one a 250 multi, would mean that every 6k mobs you'd get a 750 pedder and all the others would give 93%.

Could you explain this to a player base that it's mostly consistent of casual players? Long term 97% is amazing, but, you can't have a volatility that low. Hof lists would be almost empty and mostly well known hunters would pop there which usually makes te rest salty. "yeah, ofc, smilgs and messi again, vodka again, Grave or Deluxe company" :D

A better question to ask, imo, would be, what would you change to adapt to the new rules of loot 2.0? Because loot 2.0 did not turn the balance, it just revamped the rules of looting so that the casual player is less at a disadvantage compared to a skilled and well geared hunter in a way that returns aren't as affected as they used to be in a case where dpp was very low, in solo hunts but at a macro level the returns are probably about the same

Loot 2.0 also changed the perspective on the hunting a lot.
Everyone had high hopes from the update. From a bigger active player base, to increased returns or bigger profits. I feel a considerable amount of players answered the right question to ask, which again, is "what would you change about yourself to adapt?" - was "F*ck that, change it back, you change" and at the same time, turning mindful hunters into public enemies :laugh: There are people that scan everyone at a shared loot event and if they are at disadvantage, they start harassing and bullying because they can't be as eco or something and demand the systems is changed to fit their style, their pocket and their fixed mentality.
All of the sudden feels like everyone was born with tt profit or profit and they never, not even in the first 50 levels, lost on a run :laugh:

Yes, I know it's been always like that, but the recent year the toxicity levels are so high that you barely see any of the top hunters interact on the forums outside the Selling/Buying sections. People still can't understand competition exists in this game at every level, in any profession.

What would I want to do differently about loot 2.0 ? Nothing. It's awesome!
What would I want to do differently about my style in loot 2.0? Adapt faster, work hard, play harder.
 
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SpikeBlack

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What would I do?

I certainly wouldn't do what MA did, introduce (L) with a massive tt price and fuck up the entire loot system to allow them to drop.

I'd implement (L) by making them all crafted, keep the tt price similar to the existing items, cut the decay by half compared to the original UL but slightly increase ammo usage.
 

Magnus Mag

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eu 2.0...

i would make all usable stuff L, no unl, ok perhaps storage boxes and such unl...
then i would make nice hunting-mining-crafting cycle...

no stupid items drops like weapons from creatures, all usable items crafted...
 

Alukat123

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Could you explain this to a player base that it's mostly consistent of casual players? Long term 97% is amazing, but, you can't have a volatility that low. Hof lists would be almost empty and mostly well known hunters would pop there which usually makes te rest salty. "yeah, ofc, smilgs and messi again, vodka again, Grave or Deluxe company" :D

lower volatility = lower risk of bankruptcy, which means people can then hunt bigger mobs.
players who used to hunt 1 PED mobs may then start hunting 4 PED mobs.
1 PED mob with times 1000 multiplier and 4 PED mob with times 250 multiplier do both give a 1k PED hof :D

So, i'd tell them: 'enjoy the lower risk of bankruptcy and have fun hunting bigger mobs' :D

The killcosts determine loot composition would stay in the game ofc, i love that :D
 

True Juan

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eu 2.0...

i would make all usable stuff L, no unl, ok perhaps storage boxes and such unl...
then i would make nice hunting-mining-crafting cycle...

no stupid items drops like weapons from creatures, all usable items crafted...

Finally someone that understands the basics of this thread.
Now how would this cycle work? Do you have an idea of the cycle? Some examples etc?
 

San

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i would make all usable stuff L, no unl, ok perhaps storage boxes and such unl...
then i would make nice hunting-mining-crafting cycle...
...after everybody who held any unlimited item quit.
 

True Juan

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...after everybody who held any unlimited item quit.

Discussion of this thread is EU 2.0 not what you would change in the current EU :)

Many people dont understand that this thread is about what you would do if you could change systems completely before people start playing your new 2.0 version of EU...
 

jetsina

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Discussion of this thread is EU 2.0 not what you would change in the current EU :)

Many people dont understand that this thread is about what you would do if you could change systems completely before people start playing your new 2.0 version of EU...

Well, if your question is how would you design a virtual world from scratch, it could be anything: EU, DU or CU. (CU is the one not many people want to play, especially Jimmy ;) ). That's why my starter was what I would keep from EU as elements in my new version.

But ok, I would get rid of elements we have in EU (or not include them) too, and replace some of them. I would not have chains that get more and more expensive for dead-end or underpowered functionality (plot buildings, high-level pets...). Chains would not 'suck you into costs', but be useful progressions - and the ends of the chains would not be bugged or 'mysterious'...

I would allow multiple characters in the EULA, but introduce a 'cost of living' for each avatar you have that requires either average 20 mins of free play per day gathering (per day you log on or so) - or the market price of the food if you want to do higher-level stuff.

Is at least that last point what the OP is looking for? :confused: :)
 

RickEngland

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Ok; well let’s look at the CORE issue that NEVER goes away, which is: ped required for reasonable game play.

All MA does over the years is rewrap the same 10:1 ped to dollar situation.
They introduced bigger weapons and bigger mobs over the years, then attempted to mitigate that somewhat with more average returns in an attempt to keep it affordable in Loot 2 (assuming you manage your HP correctly which is more important than your weapon).

But the sacrifice for more average returns, is less enjoyable play or as many state “boring play”.

Add to that more items needed to gear up (down side to players), and player assets such as Malls, LA’s deeds etc (down side to MA income) and MA find themselves in a difficult position to earn revenue at the same time as attempting to provide an entertaining experience. In many ways MA have locked themselves into a corner.

So how does MA keep the existing systems, and return enjoyment and potential growth?

I say change the ratio of deposits and withdrawals from 10:1 to 50:1, then aim for growth.
If they multiply existing player assets by 5 then (after some detailed thought), it’s possible to make it happen that’s acceptable.

MA could go a step further and maybe go for 100:1 ped to dollar/withdrawal deposit ratio instead.
This gives MA a much wider scope to return more wild and entertaining offering, and it would be affordable based on deposits.

MA could still sell boxes at $5 or $10 instead of $1, as the main change would be TT ammo for peds deposited.

Or MA could use a 100:1 dollar offering and mirror EU on new servers, this gives you a choice. Play existing EU or restart on the 100:1 deposit server instead. This gives MA a brilliant excuse to reboot the game, without admitting it’s a reboot….smiles.

I’m sure people will micro analyse the above, although the core issue will always be how long do deposited peds last without providing a boring offering.

That’s as honest as I can get about the current gameplay situation. I’m pissed about Compet but MA’s issues with delivery in general is a side issue.

Rick
 

Alukat123

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But the sacrifice for more average returns, is less enjoyable play or as many state “boring play”.

and then there are many people, who find high volatility very frustrating and only getting a handful of globals every 3-6 months very boring.

As it goes for me, the most enjoyable and exciting play was that one week where i constantly stayed at around 95% return and the highest i moved away from that was about 300 PED. That was on a 1 PED per kill mob & 13k PED turnover.

I mean, sure it may seem nice on paper to get a 10k hof on a 1 ped mob, yet the year full of bad returns untill you get that big one, is just a year full of frustration & boredom...


I say change the ratio of deposits and withdrawals from 10:1 to 50:1, then aim for growth.

Hell, no.
 

RickEngland

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On come-on.

You killed 13000 x 1 ped mobs, probably got mostly shrapnel and you call that enjoyable.

What I'm suggesting is deposit $100 and instead of getting less than 1000 ped after deposit fees, deposit £100 and get 5000 ped instead. Then you could shoot 13000 x 5 ped mobs instead of 1 ped or bigger mobs.

Or get 10000 ped for $100 and just go totally mental on any mob you like, without worrying about your ped card, which will probably equate to a whole lot more entertainment for your money and decent globs and hoffs.

Becasue your turnover is on better quality mobs, which should be more fun and entertaining.

It makes me laugh how MA have effectively pushed many of the community onto puny style mobs to make their deposits last. That's not what you really want is it?

If we continue down the same road, the only corner MA can take is more addons.....silly really, as it doesn't solve the core issue...smiles.

Rick
 

Alukat123

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On come-on.

You killed 13000 x 1 ped mobs, probably got mostly shrapnel and you call that enjoyable.

I don't hunt shrapnel mobs. I stick to hunting, which gives me 40% or less shrapnell (usually ~33%).
Having good returns and globaling pretty frequently while getting plenty MU loot was a very enjoyable experience. It was the week of the most fun in my 4 years in EU.

What I'm suggesting is deposit $100 and instead of getting less than 1000 ped after deposit fees, deposit £100 and get 5000 ped instead. Then you could shoot 13000 x 5 ped mobs instead of 1 ped or bigger mobs.

Ah ok, i'm sorry, i did misunderstand that one.

It makes me laugh how MA have effectively pushed many of the community onto puny style mobs to make their deposits last. That's not what you really want is it?

excactly, i was totally pissed, that i couldn't hunt my 1-1.4 ped mobs anymore, when they did increase the volatility. Gladly the reduced the volatility and it's okay again.
 

Sub-Zero

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Add personal loot pool (guaranteed bigger loots to bring TT return to expected avg return based on your level/skills and gear + peds cycled). That way players can continue to cycle because they know eventually they will get their payback.


For example if player A cycles 100k ped in one month, and has lost 20k PED (80% return). He will get a chance boost to get an uber after said month. And each day that passes will increase that chance.

Even with this they can still have the skills, and the gear (economy rating) to maximize loot return even further.

I would release monthly statistics for avg TT returns for all major professions in-game.

I would make an option in the main website, where players can apply for beta testers in-before VU after certain conditions are met. Players who become beta testers on a VU by VU basis would be blocked from using their in-game avatars during said test period. Also they would be blocked from using auction and in-game pvp trading for the first 6 hours after VU. To prevent them buying whole auction items that is needed for possible new quests etc.


Since obviously MA has hamsters beta testing, therefore every VU and event has new bugs...
 

Darth Revan

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MA could go a step further and maybe go for 100:1 ped to dollar/withdrawal deposit ratio instead. This gives MA a much wider scope to return more wild and entertaining offering, and it would be affordable based on deposits.

You do realise that they would then have to change the % back to them right?
If their costs are based on the 10:1 ratio....then changing it to 100:1 ratio means they now have to take more ped from us to be at the same rate otherwise they may not be able to cover their own costs, etc.

What about everyone who has CLD/AUD? they would not be happy getting the same average 3ped per week if its now a 100:1 conversion. Its not like everyone who hunts 1ped mobs will automatically start hunting 10ped mobs just because the ratio has changed (granted some will and returns will most likely go up, but not in an equal ratio).

I get the whole point about enjoyable entertainment, etc, but they would have to be extremely careful about changing the ratio.....and we all know how careful MA are when they do things.
 

RickEngland

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What about everyone who has CLD/AUD? .

I think it would benefit everyone. If MA did change deposits from 10:1 to 100:1 all they do is move the earnings multiplier on deeds as well by one decimal place on CLD.

I guess it all depends on your outlook, would turnover multiply by 10?

I think the underlining issue is the percieved value with say depositing $100
Would many more players deposit $100 if they believed there was value in doing so?

Maybe the fear is players would deposit less? However If many players refuse to deposit at all, becasue they dont think they will get the turnover or "time" they expect, then everyone losses.

MA could look at your TT value of all exisiting items and compensate with ped on the day it happened. So your entire card and TT items reflected the change. The TT is then the same under the new conversion for depo and withdrawal.

Just saying it's worthy of further thought, and debate.

MA would probably introduce over time mobs that take 10 x the ped to kill, then we're back to square one again. But hey the key issue is flexiabilty is reintroduced.

Rick
 

Daimon Frey

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Lol, I guess MA can't please everyone - I sometimes feel sorry for them reading PCF :laugh: We have ppl who don't have much time to play so they log in for 2h on weekend and would like to cycle all their PED on 100 big mobs and loot to converge to 95% after that 100 kills. We also have ppl who can play on daily basis for long hours and they don't mind loot to converge after 100k kills, they prefer more exciting feast and famine cycles with HOFs than boring predictable loot. THey know loot will converge eventually and they have time to wait for that.

About cost to play. Nobody forces anybody to kill big 1000HP+ mobs. MA didn't increase cost to play, players do that on their own. I think over time bigger hunters started to complain that they can't cycle enough on these 'small' mobs so MA accommodated them and added higher HP mobs. But still it's up to the player to hunt them or not.
 

Alina

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ill go at cancer camp
 

Darth Revan

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If MA did change deposits from 10:1 to 100:1 all they do is move the earnings multiplier on deeds as well by one decimal place on CLD.

Not sure if you understand how CLD's work. It is based of a % of gross revenue (in ped) generated, this is then split between all cld holders (so 60K deeds). For the CLD income to increase, the amount of revenue (in ped) has to increase. Again i'm sure many people will go hunt bigger mobs but it will still not be an equal ratio to the change to 100:1. Many people will stay hunting at the same level and it just costs them less to do it. Some will step up a little and hunt 5ped mobs instead of 1ped mobs, and the list goes on etc.

To give you an idea, if every player would spend 10x what we do now without any change in the ratio of ped:dollar then CLD income would increase a similar amount. Same goes if we would spend 10x less, CLD income would decrease a similar amount.

It's not some magical decimal place that they just move when it comes to CLD payouts...it would be up to the players to step up and spend more to essentially negate the change in ratio. If we all stepped up to spend more, then what would be the point in the change in the first place?
 

Alukat123

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About cost to play. Nobody forces anybody to kill big 1000HP+ mobs. MA didn't increase cost to play, players do that on their own. I think over time bigger hunters started to complain that they can't cycle enough on these 'small' mobs so MA accommodated them and added higher HP mobs. But still it's up to the player to hunt them or not.

well, if they nerf the returns from 95% down to 90%, well then they just doubled the costs to play....
 

thoreau

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Never would have done space or additional planets. Never would have pursued the bank, Compet, or deeptoken.

Entropia had always been a niche game. There was never any evidence that space or more planets would do anything more than spread out the player base.

They should have stuck with their core product.

In 2011 I posted this:

The business model of MA creates a niche game. Very few are going to 'play.' The only thing planet partners are going to do is compete against other planet partners for the same decay generators. Growth is too slow to build a planet from the ground up.

The real thing is MA gets their cut regardless of where a player spends their time. So MA doesn't care if there is 100,000 players on 1 planet or 100,000 players on 10 planets. So MA will be the last to go financially. You'll see planet partners drop first and my guess is Calyspso will be the last one standing.
 

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I would uncan PE GOLD and fix bugs. Then I would hook it up to own cryptocurrency and try making it fully distributed so anyone who contribute CPU, storage and bandwidth would get some PED, along with regular "mining" via looting. Would make connectors to other cryptos to make 3d darknet marketplace and exchange.
 

True Juan

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Only very few replies that actually try to give some ideas or solutions.

So everything in hunting, mining, crafting is just fine? No need to change things at all?

True:bandit:
 

jambon

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Only very few replies that actually try to give some ideas or solutions.

So everything in hunting, mining, crafting is just fine? No need to change things at all?

True:bandit:

You in the process of making a competing game?

I'd say start here for the information you seek: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?30-Suggestions-WishList

Many players (myself included) have made suggestions and revisited how EU could be better so many times that I simply don't have the energy to take the several hours to repeat it all. But here's a quick run down of suggestions you're likely to see:


  • Less loss
  • Less loot volatility
  • More profit
  • More content and story, full voice over and cut scenes might be a nice touch
  • NPC's that actually move and do shit
  • More events (and better structured events and prizes)
  • More missions that don't require huge cash outlay (iron missions aren't "missions")
  • More transparency
  • More follow-through on promises
  • More freedom for free enterprise
  • Less "winner take all"
  • More incentive for group hunting/events
  • Better economy structure to encourage better markups for mining and crafted items
  • Ability to outright sell your skills/avatar so you can claim 90% of the value
  • Faster withdrawals
  • More viable investment opportunities
  • Better combat system - more action based and less hotkey/autouse BS
  • Better mining system - more active and entertaining, less standing around for 6 hours digging claims
  • Better crafting system - accurate success rate stats, ability to enhance crafted gear based on skill
  • Unique item tweaks - where the same item can have unique tweaks to it's ability to set it apart in auction so auction isn't just a game of undercut to sell first.
  • Better rewards/advantages to long time players with lots of skills
  • More opportunity for level playing ground e-sport style competition


EU is a complete tear down and start over IMO. The only reason they are still around today is because there isn't a viable RCE game alternative... yet. The minute one comes along these guys are bankrupt overnight.
 
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