EU on Linux (WINE)

Fact: I did not get a virus in the last 10 years on any of my 2-3 PCs I use regularly, with several windows versions installed. There is that thing called ANTIVIRUS, you know, that kinda protects you from viruses, making your argument invalid.

Facts: Windows has a larger market share, this means a bigger vulnerability target area, slower update cycles (the "updates" don't happen so often on the client computers, as they happen on the software provider's repository, it doesn't matter that Linux or Windows devs fix a memory leak bug, if it takes 2 years for it to be deployed on some machine by some admin during his lunch break), and is oriented towards accessibility and productivity (items on which linux is still way behind, no matter how you try to pull it).

Fact: Microsoft is shortened to MS or MSFT, you don't need to be an a$$.

Fact: In short, Linux is less vulnerable because nobody writes malware to target expert users. As for vulnerability: http://www.metasploit.com/

Back to the matter, it took MA 2 years to make a Windows compatible CryEngine2 game, and you expect them to put the same effort if not even more (due to the mirriad of kernel flavors, drivers and packages out there) to satisfy less than 1% of the playerbase? Is it their fault that the secure communication libraries, game engine and design tools are all built for Windows?
 
Oh awesome, let's have an OS holy war in EF.

We just want to run EU without rebooting, okay Mr Beaver? The argument that linux doesn't have as many viruses in the wild because it's not a target is both pointless and (IMO) inaccurate. In any case, who here cares "why": the fact is that Windows does indeed have more viruses in the wild than linux...something you just admitted.

Now can we please not debate OS security in this thread?
 
:wise: Yes please, let's return to the original topic real quick after just 3 more facts:

FACT: I ran various Linuxes online frequently without putting any effort into virus protection for over 5 years and never once had any security issue on them.

FACT: I ran Windows XP for about 20 minutes last year with AVG virus protection. I only ran it for 20 minutes because that was when a virus it got in that amount of time disabled the entire LAN I was on.

I do NOT like Windows anymore after that experience.

FACT: I can't afford all of internet access, virus protection for Windblows, and depositing all in the same month.

Now, to ease the transition back to this thread's topic, qemu does in fact run kfm, not only does it run, it runs well. Now all I need is the password to the LAN I just bought into and I can start tweaking details and get into game again :D
 
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Fact: I did not get a virus in the last 10 years on any of my 2-3 PCs I use regularly, with several windows versions installed. There is that thing called ANTIVIRUS, you know, that kinda protects you from viruses, making your argument invalid.

Facts: Windows has a larger market share, this means a bigger vulnerability target area, slower update cycles (the "updates" don't happen so often on the client computers, as they happen on the software provider's repository, it doesn't matter that Linux or Windows devs fix a memory leak bug, if it takes 2 years for it to be deployed on some machine by some admin during his lunch break), and is oriented towards accessibility and productivity (items on which linux is still way behind, no matter how you try to pull it).

Fact: Microsoft is shortened to MS or MSFT, you don't need to be an a$$.

Fact: In short, Linux is less vulnerable because nobody writes malware to target expert users. As for vulnerability: http://www.metasploit.com/

Back to the matter, it took MA 2 years to make a Windows compatible CryEngine2 game, and you expect them to put the same effort if not even more (due to the mirriad of kernel flavors, drivers and packages out there) to satisfy less than 1% of the playerbase? Is it their fault that the secure communication libraries, game engine and design tools are all built for Windows?

I held myself for long enough. Feel free to rid yourself of a computer, you don't really know how those work anyway. You lack every bit of basic understanding on how both Windows and Linux work (read about things such as 'the windows registry' for instance). I would've retaliated to your false claims, but seriously, every kid with a brain could do that and seeing as I'm quite tired of responding to uneducated people, I'll leave you with a tip: silence is a virtue.
 
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I held myself for long enough. Feel free to rid yourself of a computer, you don't really know how those work anyway. You lack every bit of basic understanding on how both Windows and Linux work (read about things such as 'the windows registry' for instance). I would've retaliated to your false claims, but seriously, every kid with a brain ....
um. The registry isn't even the brokenest part. We forgot SMB. :lolup:
 
I held myself for long enough. Feel free to rid yourself of a computer, you don't really know how those work anyway. You lack every bit of basic understanding on how both Windows and Linux work (read about things such as 'the windows registry' for instance). I would've retaliated to your false claims, but seriously, every kid with a brain could that and seeing as I'm quite tired of responding to uneducated people, I'll leave you with a tip: silence is a virtue.
And yet your tip has failed you.

Again, where is your technical argument that shows I suck as bad as you call it? All I did was present that in my life, I don't get viruses on windows, so it's not like you install windows, thus automatically have to worry about a virus around the corner. No, I do just fine, doing my work and fun on a PC, using the most popular OS. Why do you have a problem with that?
 
And yet your tip has failed you.

Again, where is your technical argument that shows I suck as bad as you call it? All I did was present that in my life, I don't get viruses on windows, so it's not like you install windows, thus automatically have to worry about a virus around the corner. No, I do just fine, doing my work and fun on a PC, using the most popular OS. Why do you have a problem with that?

I have zero problem with the fact that you're using Windows, the risk-management is left yours. I do have a problem though, with the fact that you screen Linux as some form of unusable, not-user-friendly, retarded operation system whilst citing Windows's so-called "superiority" in areas such as security, usability and user-base. That's ridiculous.

Keep in mind, Anti-viruses and copies of Windows cost money. Alot of it. Yet they still suck to an unprecedented extend when compared to Linux.

Porting Windows games is something that's been successfully done over so many years now, considering Microsoft is pushing developers to use it's .NET architecture and other OS-Specific-dependencies.
 
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By now I only find these OS wars silly.
Competition is a good thing because the market players have to improve.

Also just for the record, the flavor of Linux called Ubuntu is so piss easy to use by now that I let unskilled users have this installed.
As long as you only need to do browsing, email and office stuff you have all you need with it and installation and maintenance is so much faster and easier than any windows system.

But really... its to each his own, there are even some folks around that still use the Amiga OS lol
 
And yet your tip has failed you.

Again, where is your technical argument that shows I suck as bad as you call it? All I did was present that in my life, I don't get viruses on windows, so it's not like you install windows, thus automatically have to worry about a virus around the corner. No, I do just fine, doing my work and fun on a PC, using the most popular OS. Why do you have a problem with that?

There's more to security than viruses, but that not really what it's all about.

There's one and only one reason that I run Windows and that is the ability to play EU. Everything else I need I can either get for free with a single click of a button, or I can run it via Wine.

Windows is not only incredible unstable, at least compared to that insane price tag, it's also an example of an utterly unreasonable monopoly. Sure, you have the choice to run Linux or buy a Mac instead, but is of little help to those who can only run the software they need on Windows. Some may say that it's not Microsoft's fault, but rather the software developers. This is a discussion I'm not going to start now, but one thing is for sure, Windows is over rated.

To a newbie though, Linux is not exactly perfect either, but if you're willing to learn, it doesn't get any better. The problem with the amount of freedom Linux offers is that there is such a thing as too much freedom. Some, like Ubuntu, try to fix that issue, but progress is slow due to the fact that it's free. So, as I said, Linux isn't perfect, however, the whole concept of open source, which has basically been defined due to Linux, is.

So, are you using ms office or open office? I know what I use and I know that 9 out of 10 people could use the same and still get the job done, and that's on both Linux, Windows and Mac. (and for free!)

Linux can be just as good as Windows, well actually a whole lot better, and the only thing holding the progress back is the lack of users, a bit like in EU, and thus the lack of paid developers.

And this is really the point of it all. Unpaid developers who write free software for Linux usually also convert it to Windows and often also for Mac. So why is it that paid developers who write software for Windows can't do the same for Linux? It doesn't even have to be free!


A last remark, which I find kinda funny is that I've experienced a number of people who simply cannot understand the concept of free software. People are used to pay for stuff, they mediately think of that old saying: There's no such thing as a free meal.


Yes there is and when people finally realise this, things will change. I just hope that people are smarter than I give them credit for, otherwise it'll properly never happen.
 
Fact: I did not get a virus in the last 10 years on any of my 2-3 PCs I use regularly, with several windows versions installed. There is that thing called ANTIVIRUS, you know, that kinda protects you from viruses, making your argument invalid.

And did you actually pay for any of those several versions? :rolleyes:
 
Fact: Windows fanboys are narrow minded.
Fact: Linux fanboys are narrow minded.
Fact: Mac fanboys are narrow minded.


Fact: I subscribed to this thread because I would like to know about progress on the ability to play EU in linux.

Fact: I did not subscribe to this thread to read a mess of off topic OS users with "short man" syndrome.

Any development with running eu successfully and consistently in linux?

narfi
 
To a newbie though, Linux is not exactly perfect either, but if you're willing to learn, it doesn't get any better.
Exactly, it never gets any better, there will always be something that stands between you and your happiness when using linux, such as EU not loading under Wine, or php not using sendmail as you like, or apache not running with all the caching mods, or x.org not obeying your video settings, or SVN creating paths with weird user permissions so you can't modify files from apache threads, or some device not having supported drivers yet, etc, etc...

And did you actually pay for any of those several versions? :rolleyes:
Not for all of them. Why is that important to the discussion?

I only commented because I find the argument "hurr durr my windows had viruses so that's why it sucks !" pretty ignorant, and I see that supported by some hard-core fanboyism.

Anyway, I'm not going to start learning the insides of Wine just to run EU on linux, but if anyone has any suggestions or test procedures I could try to give my input, I'm listening.
 
Exactly, it never gets any better, there will always be something that stands between you and your happiness when using linux, such as EU not loading under Wine, or php not using sendmail as you like, or apache not running with all the caching mods, or x.org not obeying your video settings, or SVN creating paths with weird user permissions so you can't modify files from apache threads, or some device not having supported drivers yet, etc, etc...

OK, stop embarrassing your self all right.
 
Anyway, I'm not going to start learning the insides of Wine just to run EU on linux, but if anyone has any suggestions or test procedures I could try to give my input, I'm listening.
If you must stick with Windows, try installing Wubi or Virtualbox like I did and put Linux on there so you can try some "test procedures"
 
And did you actually pay for any of those several versions? :rolleyes:

Not for all of them. Why is that important to the discussion?

It's pretty damn important. It's a big argument whenever it comes to Linux versus Windows discussions. You get to pay hundreds of dollars for software (Windows, Office, Some flavors of Visual Studio, ASP) that's literally bad and is easily exploitable. Businesses around the globe simply shouldn't pay thousands of dollars just to have a half-functioning computer. Read more about BSA.

Things Microsoft hasn't achieved decades, with thousands of developers and an unlimited budget (in software-development terms), Linux has easily overcame. In my opinion, Microsoft is waging war against Linux for years now, by forcing developers everywhere to use it's .NET Framework and by means of deception, make as much applications as possible Windows dependent. Many companies in-pact with Microsoft refuse to release driver specifications and thus force their "Windows-only" monopoly.

CryEngine is highly dependent on Microsoft's DirectX, for instance. Why? don't ask me. It's a known fact that OpenGL is used heavily in the movies industry, in simulators, graphic editors, etc. It's also written in C++, using Microsoft's Visual Studio 2005, uses .NET Framework, etc. These are probably some of the reasons EU is difficult to port to Linux.
 
If you must stick with Windows, try installing Wubi or Virtualbox like I did and put Linux on there so you can try some "test procedures"
Last time I tried it, it didn't work with the last VU. Any ideas how I can crank up the debugging verbosity for Wine?

It's pretty damn important. It's a big argument whenever it comes to Linux versus Windows discussions. You get to pay hundreds of dollars for software (Windows, Office, Some flavors of Visual Studio, ASP) that's literally bad and is easily exploitable. Businesses around the globe simply shouldn't pay thousands of dollars just to have a half-functioning computer. Read more about BSA.
Exploitable, maybe, but again, me and probably 90%+ of the userbase, can do their work on these so called "bad" software. It's just a tool that gets the job done, you don't have to be so against it, just because you don't like it on the base of in-depth technical and philosophical reasons. Just don't use it.

Even better, always provide an alternative. For example, I can give you my list of Windows only software that I use, and basically have to keep using due to switching costs or feature requirements, and you can tell me if there are at least some alternatives for Linux. Would you like to try that? I only use like 20 apps or so.

Things Microsoft hasn't achieved decades, with thousands of developers and an unlimited budget (in software-development terms), Linux has easily overcame. In my opinion, Microsoft is waging war against Linux for years now, by forcing developers everywhere to use it's .NET Framework and by means of deception, make as much applications as possible Windows dependent. Many companies in-pact with Microsoft refuse to release driver specifications and thus force their "Windows-only" monopoly.

CryEngine is highly dependent on Microsoft's DirectX, for instance. Why? don't ask me. It's a known fact that OpenGL is used heavily in the movies industry, in simulators, graphic editors, etc. It's also written in C++, using Microsoft's Visual Studio 2005, uses .NET Framework, etc. These are probably some of the reasons EU is difficult to port to Linux.
Money talks, bullshit walks. Simple business rule. Microsoft is into business. open source developers are into software engineering.

FYI, a Microsoft platform developer will be paid a good salary and requires a minimal time for training. If you on the other hand want to be a well paid open source developer, I have no suggestion on where to find a job in the corporate area. I develop software using open source tools and open source platforms. I'm not paid that much compared to friends that develop in .NET using fancy GUIs and mindless droning (they get like 25% extra income).

DirectX forces hardware providers to abide a clear standard, and software makers to do that also. This lock-in insures that a game will run on any hardware, as long as the standards are used. This also means DirectX will not always be cutting edge or faster evolving than other technologies.

BTW, if you were so passionate about Microsfot products, or any large corporation's software products you could become an "Evangelist". This is a well paid job for simply traveling places and telling people your favorite software is the bestest, you are doing it now for free.
 
Even better, always provide an alternative. For example, I can give you my list of Windows only software that I use, and basically have to keep using due to switching costs or feature requirements, and you can tell me if there are at least some alternatives for Linux. Would you like to try that? I only use like 20 apps or so.

While we wait for what we all know never is going to happen, that is being able to play EU under Linux, why don't you do exactly what you just suggested? I'll be happy to take on the challenge, both to prove a point, if I can, but also some may find it useful.
 
Both OSs have advantages and disadvantages for several uses. I use both whenever i need the one that suits my needs for a given task.
Anyone should use what he / she likes to use and not bother with something they don't like.
 
Both OSs have advantages and disadvantages for several uses. I use both whenever i need the one that suits my needs for a given task.
Anyone should use what he / she likes to use and not bother with something they don't like.

Exactly.


Eve client did support all 3 major operating systems for some time (Win, Mac and Linux), so it shows it can be done. However they dropped Linux support due to economical reasons. So i guess same is true about EU, especially considering that development team is smaller. As with everything else, a question of priorities and money..

http://www.massively.com/2009/02/09/ccp-games-drops-linux-client-support-for-eve-online/
 
Money talks, bullshit walks. Simple business rule. Microsoft is into business.

Famous for their moto, "what you don't know can't hurt you", I can only conclude that the last thing I want from these guys is an operation-system.
 
Famous for their moto, "what you don't know can't hurt you", I can only conclude that the last thing I want from these guys is an operation-system.
Ok, thank you for sharing your opinion about a technical item using a philosophical concept, it has been noted, you may stop bashing Microsoft and their products now.

Could we please move on?
 
Both OSs have advantages and disadvantages for several uses. I use both whenever i need the one that suits my needs for a given task.
Anyone should use what he / she likes to use and not bother with something they don't like.
This is a nice summary of why I want EU to run on WINE. It would be very convenient for me. Of course, if that does not happen, I'll buy Windows to play, but those are still peds I could be depositing instead.
 
This is a nice summary of why I want EU to run on WINE. It would be very convenient for me. Of course, if that does not happen, I'll buy Windows to play, but those are still peds I could be depositing instead.

I also try to run EU now and then with wine. It seems some of the Direct X Api calls weren't implemented yet the last time i tried to run it ( end 2009 when i remember right dunno the exact wine version though ).
 



:lolup::lolup::lolup::lolup::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
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I recently switched to linux permanently. I am unwilling to buy another copy of Windows 7 because I used up my "allowed number of reinstalls", which is apparently around 5. I like to tinker with different setups, hard drive raid setups etc., which uses up that number quickly.

The best place to check if a program you want to run will work is WineHQ, AppDB. If you get a program to work, post it there so others will know. The last time I checked, EU doesn't work on any version of linux. Though some do "work" better than others.

Slackware 13 seems to be the best "gaming" linux platform. Unfortunately my linux knowledge is not good enough to successfully install it (booting issues).
 
I recently switched to linux permanently. I am unwilling to buy another copy of Windows 7 because I used up my "allowed number of reinstalls", which is apparently around 5. I like to tinker with different setups, hard drive raid setups etc., which uses up that number quickly.

The best place to check if a program you want to run will work is WineHQ, AppDB. If you get a program to work, post it there so others will know. The last time I checked, EU doesn't work on any version of linux. Though some do "work" better than others.

Slackware 13 seems to be the best "gaming" linux platform. Unfortunately my linux knowledge is not good enough to successfully install it (booting issues).

Yes you are right the AppDB is great. Since the Entries there regarding EU were done by ppl who are also here on ef.com you have chances to find it here quickly when EU will ever run in Wine environment. As well as in Wine's AppDB
 
The thing about the Novell ads that doesn't really work is the fact that Mac OSX is a shell over a Linux core. So, basically, Novell and Mac OSX are the same thing.
 
The thing about the Novell ads that doesn't really work is the fact that Mac OSX is a shell over a Linux core. So, basically, Novell and Mac OSX are the same thing.

Actually Mac OS X is based on BSD, not Linux.
 
Actually Mac OS X is based on BSD, not Linux.

That is true, now one could argue that BSD is "only unixoid" which is the same that you can state about Linux, which is also an alleged unixoid operating system.

But as much as one could debate about the origins, similarities and philosophies of operating systems, this is kind of moot as by now the core of the OS is only providing a rough frame.

So compare it with a car Niika:
what makes a rolls royce so much different from a nissan?

If you would say that a rolls royce that uses a diesel fuel engine is the same car as a nissan with a diesel fuel engine, that is as wrong as saying that mac os x is the same as novell linux.

Now try to set up and use both systems Niika and you will clearly understand the difference.
Maybe if you're more familiar with the windows system history its like saying, Windows 3.1 and Windows 98 both are based on DOS, so they are the same.
The DOS below the system did not even change too much by the way, but saying that something is "only" a frontend is kind of misaligning importance if the frontend makes up 99,99% of the users experiences with a system.
 
I can re-experience my first view of Calypso!

Whoa! o_O so now wine's appdb entry for Entropia describes a very similar experience to the first time I played Entropia. Everything except textures. People were asking me why I was trying to walk through a wall. That line of lampposts by the NAZ prevented me from reaching the teleporter :laugh: - I couldn't see them. Objects showed up fine, as did the mouseover highlights, so I eventually learned how to hunt but getting around town was a challenge. I wound up stuck in some hole near Chug's.

That was VU 9.something, and 3D Analyze fixed it. I'm addicted enough to this game that I expect to spend the next week brainstorming ways to get those textures to show up, then settle for what we've got and play blind again. It's fun. Kind of like battleship, with mobs.
 
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