EU will execution

rhogenbe

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Having seen some posts about people out of our EU community dying and even experiencing a death in our own soc this gave some people in my soc some thoughts.

Thus i was asked by a soc mate and his wife to be the executionar of their EU will in case something happens to them. I was wondering about how to go about this. So i asked MA some questions in a support call. This since the EULA does not contain any information about this situation.

The real life part of the will sounds easy enough. I will be named in the will as the person who will sell all assets and skills of the avatar which was owned by the deceased. After i have liquidated all assets/skills i will then withdraw all the money.

This brought me to the 1st issue. At that time it would mean i have access to 3 avatars (his and hers and my own) which would be a breach of the EULA. So basically i would not be able to do the execution of the EU will without violating the EULA and thus bring my own avatar with all the items and skills and the deceased their avatars with all items and skills in danger of being banned.

So i asked MA the following questions:
- Is it allowed for someone to execute an EU will?

- Are there any special rules/obligations that an executionar of an EU will has to comply with? If so what are these?

- Does an executioner of an EU will have to seek contact with MA before starting to execute the will in question?
I got the following answer:

When someone dies, an inventory must be drawn up of the decease's assets within three months of the date of the death. Since the Entropia Universe Account is an asset as any other assets, the account will be part of the estate inventory. The heirs can then decide whether they want to continue running the Account or if the want to cancel it. In both cases a verified copy of the estate inventory must be sent to us along with a verified copy of the passport of the person representing the estate. The Account information will then be changed accordingly giving the representative of the estate full access to the Entropia Universe Account and its assets. If this person does not want to run the Account further, he can ask us to cancel the Account, meaning that the Account will be purged. All skills and items will be deleted and the TT value of the items will be transferred to the PED card. Thereafter, the representative of the estate can initiate a withdrawal for the TT value available on the Entropia Universe Account.
That answer was not really satisfactory as one can imagine.

The reason why i was asked to be executionar of the EU will is that the person who asked got a little baby boy. As such the needed to change the will to take care of him in case something happened. Now this little boy or any of the family for that matter has no knowledge of Entropia Universe and as such is not capable of making an educated descission of what to do.

For instance say the person would own a IMKII shadow armor set and some other items. We all know that is worth a lot more then the TT value. But looking at the answer of MA an heir could just say liquidate all assets and give me the peds of the account. This would mean an IMKII and shadow set would be TTed. :eek:

So i tried to clarify my question to MA to get a more satisfactory answer:

Let me try and clarify the situation with an example.
The heir in question is still in his/her nappies so would not be able to make an educated decision. The guardians in question do not know anything of a virtual life. So his/her parents have submitted a will with an attorney who will execute their Real Life part of the will. Since they know the attorney has no idea what to do with their Virtual Life part of the will I am named in their will as the executioner of their Virtual Life will. They want me to liquidate all virtual assets and skills and convert it back into real life money. This in turn i will be turning over again to the attorney in question who will then pass it on as stated in the will.
With this scenario i would be having access to 2 other avatars (the deceased in question) which actually is against the Eula. So not to bring my own EU account into problems i would like a clear statement like for example that i would be required to send a FAX or verified electronic document to MA as to verify that i am named executioner of the will and as such will be liquidating the skills/assets of those avatars and after i would be done and the money is transfered out of the accounts that i would be required to inform MA that the avatars in question can be purged.

The way the answer was now was in the case of an heir capable of making their own decissions. If it are small children this is not the case.

It could even be that for example if they would die in a fire their gold cards would also be lost mayby even their passwords and the executioner of the will has no access to the original email addresses.

So i am more looking for answers like one has to contact MA and declare who will be taking care of the accounts in question and what to provide so that the executioner in question will be able to do their assigned task.

Seeing that Entropia Universe is (i certainly hope so) a longterm virtual world these cases will start to happen (and probably already are) but it is hard to find any info about what to do. It would both help MA and the community if their were clear instructions from MA what to do in times like that in order to execute a will.
I think then they understood my questioning:

In order to provide you with a totally accurate answer to this situation we need to make a few enquiries to our legal department. Please allow a few days for an answer.
A bit later cam the answer

In cases like these Entropia Universe accounts are handled just like any other asset. If the "real" will states that you will take care of the account and liquidate all virtual assets and skills, withdrawal the PED and close the account that's what will happen.

The attorney will have to contact us with all the necessary paperwork (mainly a verification that the account holders are deceased, that you are pointed out as an executioner of this part of the will, and most probably we will ask for a scanned copy of your ID.) and we will make the accounts available to you for the time needed. We won't consider this breaking the EULA for several accounts.

We hope that this answers your question, and that you don't have to do this for a long time.
I sure hope i never have to do it too.
But it at least gave me all the answers i was looking for.

I am posting all this so that the community can use this bit of information for their own will. If you have a lot of peds invested in this game i would certainly recommend you to do so. Otherwise a lot of money could easily get lost. See my example with the IMKII and shadow set.

Cheers
Richard
(ingame Siam)
 

Squiglet

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Thankyou for posting this, it answers a recent question by my other half.

Also, thankyou to MA for an acceptable and sensible responce to the problem.
 

Iset

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Thanks for posting this info... it is nice to know for sure that your last will and testament will be followed... even in your virtual life :)

Now let us hope it never happens lol

:)

Ciao
Iset
 

Midori Fairlona

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I was really confused about what this thread was about to begin with. Here is some clarification that may help:

  • Executioner: One who executes, especially one who puts a condemned person to death.
  • Executor: a person named in a decedent's will to carry out the provisions of that will.

I think there has been a little mix up between the two words here. ;)
 

rhogenbe

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sorry for the mix up as you can see i am not native english speaking.

Thanxs

Cheers
Richard
(ingame Siam)
 

Nicole

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wow this is very good to know... thanks the thread starter and I am very happy to see that MA has a good way to handle this :)
 

Bernz

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Thanx for asking and share.

+Rep to rhogenbe / Richard / Siam
+Rep MA
 

rhogenbe

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Since it is an important subject a small bump
 

Rayne Jade

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Thx for sharing and +rep. Also to MA... I have to admit I did not think it would end that way :laugh: Nice to see they are reasonable after all.

Now let's all hope it never needs to be implemented.
 

Lexxy

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Def a good thing for people to know.

As wealth continues to be transfered into virtual relms, this kind of knowledge will become more and more important.

Though I hope that no one will need to know this info in the near future!!!

thanks again for sharing Siam

:)

Ciao
Lexxy
 

Oleg

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Interesting and useful to see, this, +rep for sharing the info.
 

John Critchon

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Why would you want to be sold out? I for one plan to exist forever within EU
 

Nadie

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Excellent thread and thank you for informing us :)

+rep
 

Mandragon

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Nice to see that MA can be understanding in such unfortunate circumstances. Let's hope it's a while before anyone needs to actually use these 'allowances'.
Thanks for the info ;)
 

GoNi

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Why would you want to be sold out? I for one plan to exist forever within EU

In that case you have to make sure there will be a heir that continues playin your account when you die.

This thread gives some very important answers how to write the will.

Thx for sharing information and some + REP
 

Traf Rellik

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I was genuinely surprised at the response from MA. It's well worth the +rep for sharing, and a virtual +rep to MA.
 

Crone

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Nice one Siam.

Also nice one MA. They could have easily stick to the tt value. Since it is the only guaranteed value.

Crone is happy with this one.
 

jw350

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This is a very valid question and a good answer thank you for posting
 

Blackjack

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When I die, I intend to spend eternity haunting Skalman and Neverdie. Muhahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

Good post!

Blackjack :cowboy:
 

alius

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Well well well done siam. and good that you posted it all to the thread.

Greetz alius
 

Milioanis

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Thanks for sharing this info with us.

+rep

Milo
 

Qyan

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+ REP and BUMPYDump!!!
 

Peatie

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When I die, I intend to spend eternity haunting Skalman and Neverdie. Muhahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!

Good post!

Blackjack :cowboy:
oooOOOOooooooOOOOOOOOOooo!!!
 

Tryx

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This is sure very good to know. thanks +rep
 

Peatie

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I'm sure it differs greatly from country to country, but here in the UK, if there is a will and you are named as an executor you need to apply for a grant of probate from the probate registry. Obviously lots of paperwork and some conditions have to be met before a court will grant probate. Without probate you don't have the legal authority to deal with the deceased person's assets - which would include their EU account.

Now one of those conditions that, nearly always applies, is that some or all of the inheritance tax has to be paid BEFORE probate is given. For that to happen, a valuation of the estate needs to be given. The valuation must accurately reflect what the total estate (including the EU account) would reasonably make on the open market at the date of the persons death. This will be checked (not sure if that is by the court or the tax office though?) and refused if they aren’t happy with it.

Which raises a couple of interesting points!

You need to remember when you produce the valuation you don't have probate - the legal authority to deal with the dead person's estate - so you probably don't have the legal right to log on to EU to get an inventory to work out what the account is worth. All a bit fuzzy I think, but I know some banks will let you access information under some circumstances if you sign an indemnity. So MA could probably help you round that if you asked the correct way. Regular inventory printouts would probably also help avoid the problem!

The other thing is trying to explain that yes, it’s a virtual account, but no it is worth real money, and what the heck EU is to whoever checks your valuation. Put it on the valuation and I'm absolutely sure they would query it – because chances are they wouldn’t understand it, or don't put it on the valuation and then you better pray the account isn't worth very much, because otherwise you're likely to get all sorts of legal problems later on.

I was a named executor in a will about six weeks ago. My dad ended up being the one who applied for probate, not me though. I had to contact the family solicitor and formally renounce my claim to probate. (Although I suspect that is something that solicitor’s do so they don’t get sued, as opposed to it being a requirement of the court!) This is how I remember it worked, but I should stress that I am not a lawyer, have no legal training, etc, etc, etc – so if there is anyone reading with real legal training please feel free to correct me if I’ve got things terribly wrong. Which bearing in mind this is law we are talking about here, which is far from logical, and only rarely conforms to common sense… is quite likely to be honest :)

Peatie.
 

rhogenbe

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Thanxs for the info Peatie,

I'm sure it differs greatly from country to country, but here in the UK, if there is a will and you are named as an executor you need to apply for a grant of probate from the probate registry. Obviously lots of paperwork and some conditions have to be met before a court will grant probate. Without probate you don't have the legal authority to deal with the deceased person's assets - which would include their EU account.
The Real Life Executor is the one who will be doing the official handling. I would just be executing the Virtual part. The generated money will be transfered to his influence not to mine.

Now one of those conditions that, nearly always applies, is that some or all of the inheritance tax has to be paid BEFORE probate is given. For that to happen, a valuation of the estate needs to be given. The valuation must accurately reflect what the total estate (including the EU account) would reasonably make on the open market at the date of the persons death. This will be checked (not sure if that is by the court or the tax office though?) and refused if they aren’t happy with it.

Which raises a couple of interesting points!

You need to remember when you produce the valuation you don't have probate - the legal authority to deal with the dead person's estate - so you probably don't have the legal right to log on to EU to get an inventory to work out what the account is worth. All a bit fuzzy I think, but I know some banks will let you access information under some circumstances if you sign an indemnity. So MA could probably help you round that if you asked the correct way. Regular inventory printouts would probably also help avoid the problem!
There are several tools online available which would give you a reasonable guesstimate of the virtual value. If you understand the EU market good enough you should also be able to give the approximate error in the price. And give an estimate of sales costs of the auction and buying cost of the ESI.

The other thing is trying to explain that yes, it’s a virtual account, but no it is worth real money, and what the heck EU is to whoever checks your valuation. Put it on the valuation and I'm absolutely sure they would query it – because chances are they wouldn’t understand it, or don't put it on the valuation and then you better pray the account isn't worth very much, because otherwise you're likely to get all sorts of legal problems later on.
The only value you can be 100% sure of is the TT value of the items and the money on the ped card.

I was a named executor in a will about six weeks ago. My dad ended up being the one who applied for probate, not me though. I had to contact the family solicitor and formally renounce my claim to probate. (Although I suspect that is something that solicitor’s do so they don’t get sued, as opposed to it being a requirement of the court!) This is how I remember it worked, but I should stress that I am not a lawyer, have no legal training, etc, etc, etc – so if there is anyone reading with real legal training please feel free to correct me if I’ve got things terribly wrong. Which bearing in mind this is law we are talking about here, which is far from logical, and only rarely conforms to common sense… is quite likely to be honest :)

Peatie.
I am no legal expert myself either. But i think the Real Life executor of the will should be able to oversee all the legal aspects. I know i would be capable of producing a good guesstimate for the items and skills and the selling cost.

What is more important though is that i encountered very few people so far who have made any provisions in their will on what to do with their EU properties. I hope more people will realise this is something that needs to be taken care of especially when your account is worth a lot of money.

Cheers
Richard
(ingame Siam)
 

Midori Fairlona

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You need to remember when you produce the valuation you don't have probate - the legal authority to deal with the dead person's estate - so you probably don't have the legal right to log on to EU to get an inventory to work out what the account is worth. All a bit fuzzy I think, but I know some banks will let you access information under some circumstances if you sign an indemnity. So MA could probably help you round that if you asked the correct way. Regular inventory printouts would probably also help avoid the problem!
There are several tools online available which would give you a reasonable guesstimate of the virtual value. If you understand the EU market good enough you should also be able to give the approximate error in the price. And give an estimate of sales costs of the auction and buying cost of the ESI.
I think Peatie means that you can't get probate without an accurate evaluation; you can't get an accurate evaluation without access to a list of the inventory items; you can't get a list of inventory items without access to the account; you can't get access to the account without working on behalf of the executor and an executor can't be properly appointed without probate.

So, looking at it that way you can't get probate without access to the account and you can't get access to the account without probate. Hence why Peatie suggested that you may need to explain the situation to MA and hope they are reasonable enough to provide an inventory list. ;)
 

MG Mighty

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I think Peatie means that you can't get probate without an accurate evaluation; you can't get an accurate evaluation without access to a list of the inventory items; you can't get a list of inventory items without access to the account; you can't get access to the account without working on behalf of the executor and an executor can't be properly appointed without probate.

So, looking at it that way you can't get probate without access to the account and you can't get access to the account without probate. Hence why Peatie suggested that you may need to explain the situation to MA and hope they are reasonable enough to provide an inventory list. ;)
Well I believe that the situation like this ought to be somewhere in the law otherwise the banks accounts wouldn't also enter in the wills.

It's the same problem, the client of the bank account has rights,

but once proven that he is dead
and there is an official recognizable document
stating that somebody was given the power to administrate the execution of the will
then part of the rights pass on to that somebody and he will have access to information that otherwise he would not;
this only grants access to informations, which then can be used to continue the legal process.
 
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