Info: Eufrats Guide to maximising your return

[Staffas]

Eufrats Guide to maximising your return

With the number of posts regarding worse returns and that EU is getting more expensive I decided to make a short guide about how you can maximise your return for peds spend.

The information in this guide comes from my own ingame experiance over the last 1.5 years (yes I am still new to EU), EF and interviews with MA. This is the information that I have based this guide on.

A disclaimer though, The mining section is not as complete as hunting and Crafting. This is because I don’t have any experience about mining, and therefore don’t read much about it either.

First of all, some statements that needs to be clarified:

MA takes a fee of $1 per hour!

This does not mean that every single player pays $1 per hour of active EU interaction (mining/hunting/crafting).
This means that on average (based on all registered/active accounts) MAs revenue is $1 per active EU interaction.
This was clarified by Marco (FPC CEO) in the latest radio interview by Jamhot
Interview can be found here
This also means that your part is adjustable depending on your style of play.

There are 90% returns from your active EU interactions.

This is a truth with modification.
Mining:
This is a number that I have gotten from successful miners that use the right tools in the right areas. This can drastically be adjusted down with the wrong tools in the wrong mining area.
Crafting:
It has been tested and proven that the maximum success rate with the right skills and the right QR is at 42%. If this is new to you as a crafter, adjust you calculations.
Hunting:
With the right gear on the right mob for your skills (or the one that you are most lucky on) can give better returns, while if you use the wrong equipment without the needed skills you will have far worse return.

Time for the advice part

Crafting:
* Crafting is the only profession where you with the right skills, BP and QR never should loose peds (in theory).
* We know that the success rate is 42%.
* We know what the cost per click is.
* We know what the markup of the resources we use is.
* We know the market value of the finished product.
* All you have to learn is what the average TT return per success is, after this there is only some math that will tell you if you can profit on what you craft or not.

Mining:
* Knowledge is everything in mining. To be a successful miner you need to know:
* What finder can find what resources?
* Where the resources are located?
* What resources are in demand at the moment (higher market value)
* I also hear about re-spawn times for mining fields, if this is true, then this is also vital information.
* What amp shold you use, if any amp at all should be used.
* If you use an amp, what resources should you look for?

Hunting:
Know your MOB! What I mean with this is a lot of things:
* What is the average loot YOU get from this MOB, TT and Mark-up value? (based on your own experience, all mobs does not seem to loot the same for everyone)
* Does the MOB drop items often enough to be included in your calculations? (Example: Feffoid loot 1x Korss H400 with an average TT value of 70ped, in 400ped ammo for me, on average)
* Is the MOB a high regen MOB or a normal regen MOB?
* If it is a regen MOB, to what point is it worth using a higher mark-up, higher damage per second gun? As in, at what point does it get more expensive to use the faster gun compared to your other expense savings (fap and armor decay, less shots fired at the MOB due to regen).
* What is the MOB aggression radius? This can be different for different maturities of the same MOB (Atrox provider have a longer aggression radius than an Atrox Old Alpha for example).
* At what Evade/Dodge level do you evade this mob enough for it to make a difference?
* How long do you have to hunt your selected MOB to reach an expected average return?

What you also need to know:
* What is the best armour for you to use with your skills on this mob, do you even need armour?
* What kind of FAP should you use? Do you need a fast fap to heal yourself while killing the MOB, or is it enough with a slower FAP that you use between fights?

Eco Hunting:
Eco hunting does not only mean that you use an opalo+A101 and shoot daikiba or snables.
It can also be eco to hunt Feffoid, Scipulor, Hogglo, Chomper, even Daspelator. It all depends on what skills you have and what equipment you have.
Even using a high mark up gun (Example: hl14 at 160%) can be eco hunting, if you have done the tests and have an expectation of looting other resources or items with a market value of over that 160%, hence giving you a positive expectation.

High damage per second does not automatically mean that it has bad eco, usually only lower damage per pec. The reason for why it can me more eco is that for a high regen mob with high HP takes less time to kill, therefore less uses of the gun than a normal low damage per sec but better damage per pec gun.
For best cost efficiency you have to test your MOB for yourself.

Last advises for hunting:
Find a MOB that not to many people are hunting, or at least an area where you can be left alone on your radar while you are blasting away.

Why a Mob that not so many people are hunting?
All mobs have slight variations in their loot, meaning that if you hunt something that no other hunters kill, the chance is that you can find a stackable resource that drop often that will be in high demand, hence good market value.

Why kill in an area where there are no other people on your radar?
You will not have to worry about MOBs getting aggro from that other player, but still running over to eat on your armor/HP.
You will neither have to worry about kill stealing.
Finally you will not be upset that the person standing next to you killing the MOB that you had planed to kill get a big global or even a HOF that “was supposed to be yours”.


There is some reasons for why Hunting takes the most space in this mini guide.
The people that I hear complaining about returns in crafting are the ones that craft Attachments and does not get a HOF.
Do the math on what you craft, and you will have better returns.
In mining I hear alot of people complaining that the market value of resources has gone down and making it harder to make a profit (yes, making a profit).
Also mining is all about knowledge, and that is nothing that i can provide.
Hunters are complaining that their returns are sometimes as low as 20 - 30% with no markup in the loot. Well this is the reason for this mini guide.


* So, if you think that the returns are bad, maybe it is your costs that are too high.
* Maybe it is the way you perform your in game actions that leads to the high cost.
* Maybe it is not the right equipment that you are using.
* Maybe it is your skills that are not high enough for your activity.

Take a look through this guide and try to change one of the things that is described, who knows how much it can reduce your cost to get that return.

 

[kosmos]

great work you should put this thread link in your sig

 

[Profit]

Great guide!
Just a quick question;
If you've been hunting a mob with the same equipment at relatively the same skills, yet all of a sudden your returns drop drastically (over an extended period of time) can you suggest any reason for this?
I have been hunting feffoid (mostly) for the last month. Though 8-9 days ago my loot return dropped by about half. I have only skilled maybe 2-3 levels in LP during this time and am still using the exact same equipment setup, however the variation in return is massive (as in 3-5 globals a day, to none). This started happening before the event that is currently going on.

I tried switching between approx 20 different mobs that are around my level, and adjust armor/weapon to accomodate, but the returns are about the same, very poor.

I am active in all three professions and this trend in reduced loots has been across the board.

Any advice is appreciated!

 

[FireTaffer]

Nice Guide, I'm sure pretty soon you'll recieve some EFD saying bla bla good job bla. Good job, + reppin.

btw...

 

[kosmos]

Great guide!
Just a quick question;
If you've been hunting a mob with the same equipment at relatively the same skills, yet all of a sudden your returns drop drastically (over an extended period of time) can you suggest any reason for this?
I have been hunting feffoid (mostly) for the last month. Though 8-9 days ago my loot return dropped by about half. I have only skilled maybe 2-3 levels in LP during this time and am still using the exact same equipment setup, however the variation in return is massive (as in 3-5 globals a day, to none). This started happening before the event that is currently going on.

I tried switching between approx 20 different mobs that are around my level, and adjust armor/weapon to accomodate, but the returns are about the same, very poor.

I am active in all three professions and this trend in reduced loots has been across the board.

Any advice is appreciated!

i didn't read his guide 100% through cause i already do most of what i know he is saying

the key thing is getting good damage, protection, heal on a mob for least cost.

the armor tool on entropiawiki.com is useful to know how much yoru paying for protection. also record your cost vs return of hunts and compare something you change to see what you think.

change a setup doesn't improve loot it just can reduce your costs. i guess that is what playing "eco" is about, getting the most out of least spent

good luck

btw i have no advice for the other professions and i would try to stick to one creature with decent general loot, ie drone/argo. don't hope around to every mob in the game it just spread out your loot and makes it harder to sell stackables on auciton imho.

 

[Profit]

Hey kosmos! Thanks for the advice previously by the way, I have tried Allo and Drone in the past, both of which weren't too good to me, especially drones hehe... on Allo I was naked with tbird helmet and arms, as I had no other elect protection, toating HL6+103, and on drone I had borrowed a friends vigi set accompanied by my h400+103.
I use the armor calculator on a daily basis.
With regards to feffs I use kobold and h400+103 and fap50+vivot1.

i would try to stick to one creature with decent general loot, ie drone/argo. don't hope around to every mob in the game it just spread out your loot and makes it harder to sell stackables on auciton imho.

I generally try to camp a mob for atleast 50k ammo to get a relatively good idea of what to expect in returns.
I am really lost as to what to do, everything is costing me a tonne of PED!

 

[DoubleWolf]

i have no advice for the other professions and i would try to stick to one creature with decent general loot, ie drone/argo. don't hope around to every mob in the game it just spread out your loot and makes it harder to sell stackables on auciton imho.

That is an important point. Some say it's better to jump around and test different mobs to find out what is looting, but this point here is definitely something to consider. Your storage can end up getting really full with a lot of useless extractors and such that don't add up...

Otherwise, I liked the guide! Very useful information!

 

[Dazza]

Great guide, really worth reading every word to the core if you want to (note, I said want to) know how to maximise your % of return and minimise pay/hour

I know once I get back into EU, I'll be keeping this guide in mind to make sure im hunting right

Thanks for the guide mate

Dazz.

 

[SuperKanjo]

Very good guide, like you said it's all about knowing what you are doing. Knowing where to find what resources with what finder, knowing how much it cost to kill a mob, knowing what kind of markup items mobs drop etc. etc.

I like to add to this that it is so important to write down what you are doing. It's very important to keep logs so you get a view on what you are doing on the long term.

+rep, great guide

 

[Tricity]

Staffas nice effort but.... you are too fresh.
Things arent so simple nowadays.

 

[Staffas]

Hey kosmos! Thanks for the advice previously by the way, I have tried Allo and Drone in the past, both of which weren't too good to me, especially drones hehe... on Allo I was naked with tbird helmet and arms, as I had no other elect protection, toating HL6+103, and on drone I had borrowed a friends vigi set accompanied by my h400+103.
I use the armor calculator on a daily basis.
With regards to feffs I use kobold and h400+103 and fap50+vivot1.



I generally try to camp a mob for atleast 50k ammo to get a relatively good idea of what to expect in returns.
I am really lost as to what to do, everything is costing me a tonne of PED!

for me 50k ammo is not camping (unless you are talking about 50k ped). This would not make you understand the MOB, understand the average loot and so on. for a regen mob with around 1k HP, I find that I get close to the best return after that i have shot between 60k - 100k ammo (600 - 1k ped) per day into that mob.
But if something chage in the return that you are getting from a specific mod, well, I guess that EU is dynamic

Very good guide, like you said it's all about knowing what you are doing. Knowing where to find what resources with what finder, knowing how much it cost to kill a mob, knowing what kind of markup items mobs drop etc. etc.

I like to add to this that it is so important to write down what you are doing. It's very important to keep logs so you get a view on what you are doing on the long term.

+rep, great guide

Thanx SuperKanjo. Yes keeping track of what you do always helps, with all 3 proffessions.

Staffas nice effort but.... you are too fresh.
Things arent so simple nowadays.

I know that i an new, thats why i dont realy give any specific advice, just trying to get you (not you specificly, but you as in the general Ef user) to think before you hunt/craft/mine.

The way I see it, if the return is bad, decrease the cost and the % return will be better. killing a mob using 5ped to kill it or using 4ped is a big difference no mather what the retrn is.

 

[PopFuzz]

Get a 104 amp instead of the 103 should boost your returns a few percentage points per hunt. As for armor Warrior+6a is best eco set up for small drones in my opinion (best protection with little overkill). Small Allos Pixie + 5a is my eco armor of choice. You must kill at least 100 mobs per hunt, 150 even better. Anything less and you will swing more wildly each hunt in how good or bad you do.

Hey kosmos! Thanks for the advice previously by the way, I have tried Allo and Drone in the past, both of which weren't too good to me, especially drones hehe... on Allo I was naked with tbird helmet and arms, as I had no other elect protection, toating HL6+103, and on drone I had borrowed a friends vigi set accompanied by my h400+103.
I use the armor calculator on a daily basis.
With regards to feffs I use kobold and h400+103 and fap50+vivot1.



I generally try to camp a mob for atleast 50k ammo to get a relatively good idea of what to expect in returns.
I am really lost as to what to do, everything is costing me a tonne of PED!

 

[valentin]

In Hunting i think if you are a good eco hunter or not is up to you but if you getting good loot or bad loot is up to MA because hunting loot is avatar based because if i kill a moob i will get some loot from it but lets say that someone else kill it he/she will not get the same loot from it.

 

[Staffas]

In Hunting i think if you are a good eco hunter or not is up to you but if you getting good loot or bad loot is up to MA because hunting loot is avatar based because if i kill a moob i will get some loot from it but lets say that someone else kill it he/she will not get the same loot from it.

exactly, therefor if your return is to bad, check your expences, maby they are to high for the expected return of the mob you are hunting.

 

[Az Bloodz]

If you've been hunting a mob with the same equipment at relatively the same skills, yet all of a sudden your returns drop drastically (over an extended period of time) can you suggest any reason for this?

May I try to answer. Even though I am actually not hunting at all except some really rare team hunts I talked to a lot of hunters and have been watching the costs/returns of some of them. My suggestion is actually quite common amongst these forums let's call it the 'saving up' theory. Just before a big HoF the mob seems to be saving up for some time [depending on the mob or rather its popularity] and this period of time can actually be a few days [seen with Formidons]. After the HoF the loot tends to be slightly better than normal then it gets normalized until the next period of saving up.
That's what I believe at least.

 

[Leggenda]

i like this guide a lot, particularly the last few lines.

many hunters:

1. choose the wrong mob (too much regen for the hunter's lvl to deal with - uneco, or mob is too strong for the hunter without sacrificing much decay)

2. overkill with a bad finisher

3. overprotect themselves with armor, so as to feel safe (1.0 dmg per hit, anyone?)

4. bad fapping habits (fap all the way to full health, then rush to kill the next mob. sure that may be important in competitions and events to save time, but if ur solo hunting u can rely on ur own health regen to a certain extent)

5. bad knowledge of EU mechanism (shooting at a mob when its on the other side of a small hill, wearing wrong armor/plates, using wrong weapon/amp)

6. enticed to hunt with too little ammo to allow loot to cycle in a hunt (u can't expect to return from a good hunt with just 5k ammo on atrox)

so sometimes all these habits add up and probably explains where did the other 50-60% of ur expected returns went to, with point 1 and 6 being the biggest culprits.

 

[northstar]

ty for the guide

 

[narfi]

bump for a good thread.

Just found it following a signature.

I believe the H400 + A103 is too small to be hunting Feffoids with economically. I was hunting them some a while back with that combination and found that a hunting partner brought the combined ammo spent on low maturity Feffoids down an entire ped per kill! I tried 3 different setups and dont remember the exact numbers from each. But here is what i found.

H400 + A103 = not eco, too much regeneration.

(H400 + A103) + (disciple w/ opalo) = noticably cheaper per kill

2x (H400 + A103) = Equilly armed hunting partner for an eco hunt.

narfi

 

[JackATHherer]

Eufrats Guide to maximising your return
* Crafting is the only profession where you with the right skills, BP and QR never should loose peds (in theory).
* We know that the success rate is 42%.
* We know what the cost per click is.
* We know what the markup of the resources we use is.
* We know the market value of the finished product.
* All you have to learn is what the average TT return per success is, after this there is only some math that will tell you if you can profit on what you craft or not.

Is not entirely true.

"all you have to learn is what the average return per success is" means u have to click the bluprint an infinite number of times to find the average, since the return varies. U cannot really get an average to include uber luck unless u click maaaaany times.

So:"Crafting is the only profession where you with the right skills, BP and QR never should loose peds (in theory)" <--- fail.

U cannot know for sure if u will get a huge bad streak, or a big hit on first click, and it is not theoretically possible for a human being to click an infinite number of times on a crafting machine.

I suggest u remove the mining and crafting part of this guide as they are more misinforming than usefull, focus on improving and updating the hunting session.

Also perhaps consider mentioning that how loot is sold is a huge factor in terms of making a profit. Eco hunting is relatively easy - get maxes sib gun and maxed sib heal and cheap armor and go shoot without missing. So the important part will be how to best sell the loot u get.

Ty for effort but im a bit turned off by the - sry - seemingly ignorant bullcrap which is the crafting and mining sections.

 

[Rival]

I think his basic advice for crafting is pretty spot-on. There is no guarantee of profit of course, even a coin-flip can come up tails 1000 times in a row. But by considering averages, you can certainly have a positive expectation.

With 10 PED/click in materials, if you receive on average 5PED return with a 200% markup, you can expect to break even over time. You might come out ahead, you might end up behind. But your expectation of breaking even is not irrational.

If you can sell those items for a 250% markup, you have a good expectaion of profit. That sure beats having a negative expectation of just bleeding PEDs making filters.

 

[Staffas]

Is not entirely true.

"all you have to learn is what the average return per success is" means u have to click the bluprint an infinite number of times to find the average, since the return varies. U cannot really get an average to include uber luck unless u click maaaaany times.

So:"Crafting is the only profession where you with the right skills, BP and QR never should loose peds (in theory)" <--- fail.

U cannot know for sure if u will get a huge bad streak, or a big hit on first click, and it is not theoretically possible for a human being to click an infinite number of times on a crafting machine.

Thats why I wrote in theory

I suggest u remove the mining and crafting part of this guide as they are more misinforming than usefull, focus on improving and updating the hunting session.

This is true, my main profession, and therefor what I know most about, is hunting. I dont know everything that there is to know about either of the professions, but the hunting is the most complex part.

Also perhaps consider mentioning that how loot is sold is a huge factor in terms of making a profit. Eco hunting is relatively easy - get maxes sib gun and maxed sib heal and cheap armor and go shoot without missing. So the important part will be how to best sell the loot u get.

The reason I dont mention loot that much is that if I did I would get bashed for either claiming that some mobs loot to well or too bad. I have horrible returns on some mobs that are supposed to be good looters and the other way around, so I advise to find out what your average is.
Selling your return is a realy important part of any action that you make in EU, but there are so many guides that cover that you should save up your loot to make a better deal when selling it, so I thought that it would be considered general knowledge even after just a few weeks in EU.

Ty for effort but im a bit turned off by the - sry - seemingly ignorant bullcrap which is the crafting and mining sections.

Thank you for your input and trying to improve my short guide.

 

[Kerham]

I am sorry, but your guide is about minimizing expenses. Which is very useful, true. But a very sensible difference to maximizing return. For maximizing return we can eventually try a small prayer or doing good karma stuff

 

[perry.elroy]

Interesting discussion.

 

[Staffas]

I am sorry, but your guide is about minimizing expenses. Which is very useful, true. But a very sensible difference to maximizing return. For maximizing return we can eventually try a small prayer or doing good karma stuff

Well since we cant realy effect the loot, then all we can do is effect the cost to get to that loot. So by minimizing expences your return versus cost will be better.
So this would make your return for your peds invested in your actions better.

 

[Jamira]

Generally I agree with Staffas regarding to hunting. I do nothing else.

I use swords. Nothing else. (Okay, a Marber Bravo for tagging and a Mercanery for finishing. But ammo is loot for me )

My average return is something between 85% and 90% (currently 89.5%). That's a number I can live with. I know this very exactly because I listed each single hunt since April 12. 2009 until the day when heaven was falling down (August 16. 2009). After each hunt I note all loot-TT plus serious markup (>110% = ---> auction. <110% ---> TT). Than I do a full repair (armor, weapons, tools). I compare both numbers to know my return.

I hunt mobs with halfway good return. Most of the time medium Atrox (Provider to Old Alpha). No matter how fast they regenerate or how slow my swords are (Determination). I know they will give me the expected return over the time. It varied from 32% to 766% per hunt. Bad and good periods. But the average counts!

The period I traced is not long enough to make a conclusion about probably increasing of my return rate. I assume the better I can use my gear and the higher my skills are the better this return rate will be. Time will show.

I am sure the combination of mobs, gear and skills is one of the best for me atm. And that's the whole trick.

 

[Fjolla]

Know your MOB! What I mean with this is a lot of things:
* What is the average loot YOU get from this MOB, TT and Mark-up value? (based on your own experience, all mobs does not seem to loot the same for everyone)
* Does the MOB drop items often enough to be included in your calculations? (Example: Feffoid loot 1x Korss H400 with an average TT value of 70ped, in 400ped ammo for me, on average)

This is the most important thing imo. But it sucks when the best mob for you gives 65-70% return incl. all markup all the time.

 

[Staffas]

This is the most important thing imo. But it sucks when the best mob for you gives 65-70% return incl. all markup all the time.

I did put this in just for you Fjolla

 

[Sian87]

what happens when everything your doing is right , but all the loots are going to someone else hunting the same mob

 

[Profit]

You're not doing it "right" apparently

 

[Staffas]

what happens when everything your doing is right , but all the loots are going to someone else hunting the same mob

usualy what happends is that your ped cards slowly (or rather fast) goes towards 0.