Fix space logout exploit

Naomi

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Because we can't bring our loot back with us safely.
Since space is unsafe, I personally keep all of my loot on calypso. I won't sell my loot on other planets, because many people only want to buy from other planets, if they can safely go pick it up.

Many buyers don't want to pay for transport fees or vip flights, but actually prefer to pick it up at their next planet visit. Because they risk to loose their purchase in pvp space, they won't bid on stuff on other planets.

This is what concentrates everything to calypso auction. It also keeps many hunters & miners to tied to calypso.
And this is exactly what I said on my previous posts.
This is why economy on other planets than Caly is so down.
This would not happens whitouth the logout exploit.
And this is probably not how it was suposed to works when it has been designed.
So thank you to confirm all of my preious posts. :yup:
Actually I did not confirm what you say at all.

Today: almost no safe interplanetary transport = low non-caly activity, being hunting/mining and auction
what I hope for: safe interplanetary transport = higher non-caly activity
what I don't want: NO safe interplanetary transport = much lower non-caly activity.

Removing the possibility to logout, would increase the problem.
Even less people would go hunt/mine on other planets. non-caly auctions would suffer more.
 

xxPriestxx

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I dont know... I'm starting to think most people in this RCE game, don't have the backbone to play an RCE game.

So here's another pirate scum thought you can all neg rep and disregard... isn't that what makes it fun? That element of it.

If all the "risk" in this game is removed, there wouldn't be a game anymore. Sometimes MA takes from you, and if you choose to travel in space with lootables (keep in mind, not everything is lootable. It could be super hardcore like Eve, and you lose EVERYTHING. Thankfully that's not the case).... if you make that choice, there is a chance you could be looted by another player. But everyone knows this risk, there is no point in complaining about this risk is there? You don't HAVE to travel in space with stackable items. There is almost no element in the game that would even force you to consider it.

I really just think, the more I read these comments... maybe alot of people in this game would be happier playing something a little less real.
 

SuperKanjo

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If all the "risk" in this game is removed, there wouldn't be a game anymore.
In my opinion, the risk should be optional. Yes, you can say, you don't need to travel, well it's Entropia Universe.... And i think the risk should be equal, the pirates don't take the same risk. They wait in safety watching nearby and when they spot a target they go after them with nothing in their pockets... And after that they flee right back into safety....

So if you are saying the risk makes the fun, why don't pirates want this fun?
 

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The problem here is this.

In PVP areas on Caly, you have an OPTION of going through them or not.

If you CHOOSE to travel through the PVP areas on Caly, you might get your ass shot off. You have no choice when travelling between planets in space. You are being FORCED to put yourself in danger.

That is the WHY other planets are dead and dying. Too high a gamble to transport stuff here and there.

Solution: Make the direct (and shorter) path from planet to planet PVP. Make longer, alternative routes that are safe from PVP. Maybe these routes take twice as long to travel. Maybe make the space critters populate the "safe" routes as well.

Simple.

Which means MA won't do it....
 

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I really just think, the more I read these comments... maybe alot of people in this game would be happier playing something a little less real.
I was thinking the same with you. If you like pirating so much why are you here in this game and not playing another game which would seem a lot more fun.

Our risk in an RCE game is MU. Which yes is the topic of this thread since you are whining that after you do steal from others you don't get much of a MU to be worth stealing it.

What you love about this game is the thrill to steal from others who have deposited real money to play this game. This is why you would most likely say you don't play other games with much better space pirating fun. You simply want to steal from the rich in hopes to hit it big one day and withdraw and laugh in our faces.

This is why MA needs to fix this now. This is a RCE again and our risk are already set by MA.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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See's like you are the only one that is right....If you want to react as smartass atleast get your numbers right, and secondly is this thread not about now but how it would change things.

EDIT: to clarify, i'm not against PVP, but it should be a choice! And some of the points made why this should be removed don't make sense.
I'm not the only one to "be right", many people agree whith this.

If you want to react as smartass atleast get your numbers right
Great argument again.. So it's not 40 but 37 ? Who care ?
Most people did understand what I mean, sorry if you don't.

this thread not about now but how it would change things
And the best way to know how it would change things, is to understand what the thing you plan to change is creating right now.
 

Eli

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I dont know... I'm starting to think most people in this RCE game, don't have the backbone to play an RCE game.

I missed the part where RCE stands for mandatory lootable PVP.
 

SuperKanjo

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I'm not the only one to "be right", many people agree whith this.
I am as right as you are, it's not just your view on the matter that is the truth. Why bother to go on a forum if you don't even have the intention to discus with arguments but instead reacting on the man. Why not have a discussion based on arguments?

Great argument again.. So it's not 40 but 37 ? Who care ?
I do! And it's not about the number, it's about you wanting to be the smartass correcting me not giving correct arguments (read facts)
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Actually I did not confirm what you say at all.

Today: almost no safe interplanetary transport = low non-caly activity, being hunting/mining and auction
what I hope for: safe interplanetary transport = higher non-caly activity
what I don't want: NO safe interplanetary transport = much lower non-caly activity.

Removing the possibility to logout, would increase the problem.
Even less people would go hunt/mine on other planets. non-caly auctions would suffer more.
I play the same game as you.

Actual space don't prevent people to go play on other planets if they want to.
People go play on others planets, they go there from Caly whithout any loot.
When they cycled what they wanted, they go back to Caly, using "logout exploit" in MS, to sell their loots.
That's what's happens right now.

Your location on Avatar info here shows as "Arkadia"...
I guess you like this planet, so you want nice economy there, and so you probably put your loot in auction there ?..
 

~ Cirrus ~

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I am as right as you are, it's not just your view on the matter that is the truth. Why bother to go on a forum if you don't even have the intention to discus with arguments but instead reacting on the man. Why not have a discussion based on arguments?



I do! And it's not about the number, it's about you wanting to be the smartass correcting me not giving correct arguments (read facts)
That's wrong, I read your argument, and then answer.

Your last argument was this:

Or you turn it around. Now some people visit other planets because they can safely transport their loots to Calypso. When they can't get their loot back to Calypso in a safe way, they won't visit that planet at all.

Same point, but can work out two ways.
I answered this:

Well it could be...

And so you think it's why there is 2K players on Caly, 40 on Ark, 25 on RT, 10 on Cyrène and so on ?..

And it's probably not linked whith the fact Auction is about 500 pages on Caly, 10 on Ark, 5 on RT, etc..?
So I waited for a new valid argument there, but you choose to forgive by answering this:

See's like you are the only one that is right....If you want to react as smartass atleast get your numbers right, and secondly is this thread not about now but how it would change things.
:yup: Sorry if you think I'm playing "smartass" again, I just talk about facts.
 

SuperKanjo

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:yup: Sorry if you think I'm playing "smartass" again, I just talk about facts.
This facts you mean?

And so you think it's why there is 2K players on Caly, 40 on Ark, 25 on RT, 10 on Cyrène and so on ?..

And it's probably not linked whith the fact Auction is about 500 pages on Caly, 10 on Ark, 5 on RT, etc..?
Those are not facts, those are just randomly made up numbers that are wrong. I get you're point, but don't talk about facts if you just make things up.
 

GoNi

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In my opinion, the risk should be optional. Yes, you can say, you don't need to travel, well it's Entropia Universe.... And i think the risk should be equal, the pirates don't take the same risk. They wait in safety watching nearby and when they spot a target they go after them with nothing in their pockets... And after that they flee right back into safety....

So if you are saying the risk makes the fun, why don't pirates want this fun?
I do not agree with Cyrrus at least not to his main arguments, but calling the "RISK should be optional", when taking the risk is already optional does not make sense!

Everybody can go to space without taking stackables/lootables
Everybody can use auction and pay a fee to transport stackables/lootables from one planet to another planet.

As said, it is already optional, nobody is forced to take lootables into space.
Why they do it anyways? Because profit margin is bigger, when going with MS, speak it is simple GREED.

Now we may have some greedy pirates at one side (those want to loot), and the greedy traders on the other side (they want to get through unlooted for higher profits).
So if trader takes the risk and gets looted, it is his fault not the pirates fault.
And here I totally agree to Cyrrus, EVERYBODY got the option to become a pirate himself. So where is the problem. Lose one day as trader, take it back the other day as pirate :)

It could be real easy.

About the other points, about nearby and the easy way to get back to safety. If you read through this thread and some others about piracy or space in general, even hardcore pirates agree that this things need an update.

So why you come with arguments against Cyrrus, where he already agreed that this has to be overworked?

Comunication is really difficult, when people only read what they want, and don´t care whatelse a person said.

I am not a pirate, and still can agree to many points pirates make in their posts.
Since we have the option to use auctions to transport goods between planets, I don´t see any problems with lootable space!
Its like entering PvP4 planetside, nobody really nobody takes lootables into PvP, but they try to get lootables out of it. There is the ones who try to loot others (PKers) and the miners/hunters, who take risk losing what they already looted.
Same should apply to space.
To make this happen we need the space update: more spacemobs, maybe spaceming, transport missions aso.
If there would be more to do in space, more people would try their luck, although there is a risk to get looted.
MS still would have their place, as this could be used as base for mining/hunting operations, and give a fairly good protection vs pirates. But, if pirate is organiced good enough, that they manage to shoot down a mothership, they should have the option to loot, as it is lootable PvP. It is intended that it is lootable PvP form start.

Debating about the log out exploit is so useless, it is an exploit. MA confirmed this, it is an exploit.
Use it on your own risk, but don´t come here crying in next whine thread if your account gets look for some weeks, because you exploited a bug.

Now we should go back to topic!
Would a bugfix (make space work as intended), have positiv or negativ effects on economy.
What do you think about that.
That is the question and whole purpose of this thread.
Will it help the economy or will it hurt it.

Naomi got some valid points aswell as Cirrus got some valid points.
Who is right or wrong, can´t say.
What I can say is just my opinion and I already said what I think about it, as others did too.
 

Atrax

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I just LOL every time there's another crying pirate thread about this "exploit".

I understand that the cause was helped along by one silly comment from a support rep that got posted a couple of years ago, just adding fuel to the fire.

Since safe login/logout was promised during the original description and sale of the mother ships, it's actually a feature. And always has been.

You would be better off trying to round up more viewers for micjack's twitch stream than beating this dead old horse.

You can try and twist things around however you like. MA allowing for piracy in this platform does not in any way make it a "moral" or "right" choice and it's only different from robbing people at your local convenience store by the fact that jurisdiction is questionable and no law enforcement agency is likely to pursue the theft.

lol silly to work for a living when you can just take what you want from some other poor sod, amirite?
 

~ Cirrus ~

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This facts you mean?

Those are not facts, those are just randomly made up numbers that are wrong. I get you're point, but don't talk about facts if you just make things up.
Sorry for all other people here that have to read a "dialogue of the deaf"...

The fact that you focus on this insignificant detail, in order to neglect the important part is also fallacious.
So I'd better stop here, or it will for sure get us nowhere fast... :yup:
 

GoNi

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I just LOL every time there's another crying pirate thread about this "exploit".
Did you read his post ?

Its about effects on economy if it gets fixed.
Not a cry thread at all.

One more who don´t read, and if read don´t understand what is written there.

Sorry your post here is so useless and completely off topic!
 

~ Cirrus ~

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I usually don't do that, but I will add your bad rep comment cause this one was funny; :rolleyes:

"06-11-2018 19:52
SuperKanjo
Thread: Fix space logout exploit

Just grow up and try to discuss on arguments instead of acting like an infant"

Again my argument was this: There is 100 times more players on Caly, and 100 times more Auction pages also than on any others planets.

So now I still wait for yours...
But maybe you prefer to keep repeating that's it's not 100 but 94 ?..

IMO you should better stick to your better argument that is something like:

Boohoo I want to go play on others planets but PvP scares me.. :scared:
Please MA change the rules for me.. :better:
 

Naomi

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Everybody can go to space without taking stackables/lootables
Everybody can use auction and pay a fee to transport stackables/lootables from one planet to another planet.
So what you are suggesting GoNi, is that I go hunt on another planet without taking any of my pills with me, loot 80 different items, sell them through auction at that planet, go to calypso, and buy them back myself to get them to calypso safely?

I'm not going to do the exact math on that, but let's say average 2 ped auction fee, and 6 ped transport cost, equaling 8ped/lootstack,...

That's a looot of money I'd be throwing away each non-caly hunt m8.
No way that I'll waste my hunting budget that way.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Since safe login/logout was promised during the original description and sale of the mother ships, it's actually a feature. And always has been.
Do you have a link for this ?

I'd like to see an official statment from MA saying this is a feature... If it's right then indeed this thread becomes useless.
 

Atrax

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Did you read his post ?

Its about effects on economy if it gets fixed.
Not a cry thread at all.

One more who don´t read, and if read don´t understand what is written there.

Sorry your post here is so useless and completely off topic!
Ah the title of the post is "fix space logout exploit" and no i have not read the OP or any full post prior to what I just posted. I have no intention of doing so either.

The premise of the thread is false, and there is no "fix" required for a feature that a couple of whining thieves decided was an exploit and robbing them of their ability to easily steal from others.

At some point a support rep told them something along the lines of "mindark is looking into this issue" and they started posting that confirmation and calling this an "MA Confirmed Exploit".

Since then every few months to couple years a noob they have convinced that pirates are the saviors of entropia (or just another new alt of the same old salty guys ...) brings this up again and tries to make it into some sort of crusade.

So no I don't bother with the thread I'm just here having a laugh at it. There's probably more value in watching alien 'documentaries' on youtube than arguing over this.
 

Atrax

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Do you have a link for this ?

I'd like to see an official statment from MA saying this is a feature... If it's right then indeed this thread becomes useless.
Not handy, it was definitely part of considering one for purchase though.

I believe the verbiage was something along the lines of "with a mothership you can log back in where you left off and continue your adventures in space ..." or something like that.

I've got some spare time it's why I'm posting here at all. I'll see if I can round up a copy of the old announcement on the internet archives or anything.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Not handy, it was definitely part of considering one for purchase though.

I believe the verbiage was something along the lines of "with a mothership you can log back in where you left off and continue your adventures in space ..." or something like that.

I've got some spare time it's why I'm posting here at all. I'll see if I can round up a copy of the old announcement on the internet archives or anything.
I'll wait to see this..
Maybe the best would be to ask MA.

And just saying, I repeat what I said earlier for all people who call "pirate" whith some words like "thieve", "robber" or whatever...

I don't want to play Poker whith you, because in case you loose you would probably go to policestation telling that someone stole your money.. :scratch2:
 

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Ah the title of the post is "fix space logout exploit" and no i have not read the OP or any full post prior to what I just posted. I have no intention of doing so either.
Well the thread title got changed by a mod, original title was fix economy and it was in general discussions and not in space section aswell. Moved by mod.

We can say mod fail here too, as it is about impact on economy (raising MU, more activity off caly), if logout exploit gets removed!

Beside that here read this link:
https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?213426-Entropia-Universe-12-0-0-Release-Notes&highlight=mothership

Thats the original release notes when space was introduced, and there clearly is stated that if a MS gets shot down, the passagners are floating in space and can be looted as long as they not die from the void (revive).
So it is intended to be lootable PvP and not save traveling using the logout exploit!

Where do you get that statement that MS gurantee a safe passage through space and logout in MS is intended ?

Space is designed as lootable PvP from day one!
Like it or hate it, doesn´t matter.
Logout for safe travel is an exploit!

Looting Ships and Avatars

The whole space, except in the parking zones outside the space stations, is a lootable PvP area where you can battle your opponents. To loot one or several avatars, after you have destroyed the ship, you have to kill them during the time the avatars are floating around in space - before they choke and return to a revive terminal. You can see the avatars from the markers visible above them.

Note that you can now loot the destroyed vehicle's Inventory.
Logout = no floating, no kill, no loot == exploit!
 
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Naomi

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Something being designed one way or the other, doesn't make it right.
Even a law being in place, only makes it legal, it does not make it right. Think of dictators. They make their own laws. Those laws make it legal, but they don't make it 'right'.

It is very hard from a designer point of view, to actually predict the impact of their realizations on beforehand. Therefore adaptations will be made over time.
It is not, because it is 'designed' a certain way, that you have to take part in it. That just depends on your own ethics and morals.

My ethics are, I don't take loot from others, with exception of defense, if they try to take mine.

Maybe your ethics, or rather the lack of them, is 'I take whatever I can, and I don't care about others and their gameplay'. Maybe you want to fck up others as hard as possible, just because you can, just because the EU interface allows you. It's possible, I'll won't judge over you. It's up to you.
Some dictators think the same way, just taking whatever they can.

In most cases, the pirate would not attack his target, if he knows the person in game, or irl. The only condition under which a pirate can attack a target, is because he is sure there will not be repercussions. As long as people can cowardly hide behind their computers, without them being afraid to get hit in the face when they have to meet the person at work on Monday, they will do it, but only as long as.

This is totally different with space 'fun'. In space fun, both parties agree to go pvp. That is totally acceptable.

As said many times before, there is a HUGE difference between pvp4, where you choose to participate and put yourself at risk, and space, where pvp for many is an unfortunate inconvenience, but to get certain missions done, to get certain items etc, they need to get to another planet. Most people don't 'choose' to enter space, their choice is to get to another planet. pvp space for them is just a bad design.

And lastly, not to be forgotten, there has to be something at stake for the pirates. As it is right now, they can basically attack, die, attack, die, attack die... and occasionally get someone else's loot, without much cost. A 'space pvp (toxic zone) shot' would change that.
 

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... Thats the original release notes when space was introduced, and there clearly is stated that if a MS gets shot down, the passagners are floating in space and can be looted as long as they not die from the void (revive).
So it is intended to be lootable PvP and not save traveling using the logout exploit!...
Indeed it's pretty sure this is an exploit.

I can't see MA add a feature that would need a logout... would be a great lack of logic.
 

~ Cirrus ~

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Something being designed one way or the other, doesn't make it right.
Even a law being in place, only makes it legal, it does not make it right. Think of dictators. They make their own laws. Those laws make it legal, but they don't make it 'right'...
LOL Again a great work of Sophism I guess..

The first part only was fun enough... :D

To compare rules in a video game whith dictatorship.. :rolleyes:

A 'space pvp (toxic zone) shot' would change that
Yeah why not, then people will complain even more because to be shot by pirate will cost you not only the repair but also 5 PED more for the anti toxic shot..
 

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So what you are suggesting GoNi, is that I go hunt on another planet without taking any of my pills with me, loot 80 different items, sell them through auction at that planet, go to calypso, and buy them back myself to get them to calypso safely?

I'm not going to do the exact math on that, but let's say average 2 ped auction fee, and 6 ped transport cost, equaling 8ped/lootstack,...

That's a looot of money I'd be throwing away each non-caly hunt m8.
No way that I'll waste my hunting budget that way.
Exactly that is what Cirrus is saying in his OP.
If it is no longer possible to transport muliple stacks of materials from other planets to Caly, this will improve other planets economy and raise MU for stackables even on Caly.

Impact on economy, impact on MU.

I agree to this, but think the impact is fairly low (around 1%).
I can be wrong and impact may be more, personally I wouldn´t expect it, but would be possitiv surprised if it got an bigger impact on MU.

And then there is another important question:
Stackables are used in crafting, so why you don´t craft at other planet and only transport the non lootable items?
Why must all crafting happen at Caly ?

Paying the transport fees yourself, does only apply on situations, where you offer your loots at planet A, fly to planet B, buy it yourself to craft with it.
If you don´t use it yourself, it should not matter at what planet you offer it,the auction fee is the same, and in this case the transport fee is paid by the crafter who buy it to craft. That is no cost for you! It doesn´t make any difference.

For the pills, you have a valid point. Some of them are lootable. Thats bad, as you won´t risk losing it when traveling through space.
Maybe try buying the pills you need at other planet (I know its expencive), and leave the ones you have already back in storage for future use. Thats save, but more pills than you actually need, as there is a stock left back on other planet. Have no good idea how to solve that issue, but maybe we can ask MA to make all pills non lootable.

And then there is the small stacks not big enough to make auction profitable, I know.
Other planets should have traders/resellers, who buy these small stacks, and put it to auction when collected enough and have a big stack. That is a problem at other planets, I know only 1 serious trader at RT, no clue about Ark. I am Caly babe, so I have no up tp date info about other planets traders.
My last visit at Ark, I searched 2 days for a trader but noone bought my loots, so I TTed it and back to Caly. Better that way than losing it to pirate :)
Optional you may store small stacks, at other planet untill you come back and collect more. Dead money in that case, but you can´t have everything perfect.
 

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Hey guys I've been out prowling around and I found a few things, though not the announcement or press release I with and exact quote.

I did find several fishy items for your review though. Since I had the time.

I also want to point out that while our super-honorable and helpful pirates want to make this about PVP a mothership is a tool for many things and also a "home in space" anyone else remember that phrase? It just wouldn't do to get looted two days after you logged out and then find out you got looted a couple days later when you came back to play again?

See this issue affects more than one aspect of game play. Anyways on to the research:

http://www.cyreneforum.com/threads/ma-bans-for-players-logging-out-in-space.1438/#post-11255

Here's a thread from one of the early support cases posted on the issue. It regards smaller ships and I'm adding it here to point out that the early discussion regarding a legit "logout exploit" did not involve motherships and this is acknowledged there in the posted text.

This makes it clear that the discussion revolves around logging out repeatedly in a quad or sleipnir when spotting a pirate could be considered an abuse of game mechanics, and thus an exploit. Something akin to vehicle hunting such a concern.

Next: https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/forums/showthread.php?226574-Should-Logoff-in-space-be-removed

Here's stagger, just a few months after the update, already trying to turn this into an issue while ludvig basically teases and distracts him about it. Remember me mentioning "Salty old pirates"?

Looking at the date on that OP I think this was probably minutes after the motherships were released. Remember when you could VTOL Caly -> Ark in like, 15 minutes?

These guys were already crying about it.

Finally, it seems there's a wall, a lot of the information from that time is missing. Actually browsing the press releases and posts from bertha in that time, you will find most of them were posted on sites that do not exist any more. Even prnewswire.uk won't show me posts that old and most of the other sites are completely gone.

Also, links to the actual sale announcements, and the critical "Mindark Buzz" posting are gone. Some other "Buzz links from that time work, but that one (found on several sources) is missing.

So, not to come off as a complete nut, here's a link to an actual conversation about the fact that information on the matter including a previous, explicit answer to this question from Kim | Mindark had been removed from the web.

https://www.planetcalypsoforum.com/...n-a-mothership-to-deliberately-avoid-lootable

So good luck finding anything hard I guess. But I was there thinking about buying one and they never would have sold for anything like what they did if it wasn't clear that you could log out safely in them.

It actually had nothing to do with the pirates crying and calling it an exploit it had to do with becoming a resident of space, of believing in what mindark was flashing around and thinking that you could actually play the game without landing on a planet for long stretches of time.

Anyways I'm not fanatic about it I just think it's silly. Support reps are often incorrect (uninformed) and they don't set policy in any case most long term players are aware of that.

So sorry I can't find you a hard link but since Mindark literally deleted the information shortly after this became an issue and have left us hanging since there's nothing to do about that.
 

GoNi

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Gloria GoNi Nicestyle
My ethics are, I don't take loot from others, with exception of defense, if they try to take mine.
You do exactly do that every time you hit a high HoF that makes you profit vs TT input!

Do you really think a big ATH comes out of thin air?
NO, it is money lost by other players, you hit ATH you take other peoples money!

So where is the differnce, shooting someone in space/PvP4 to loot the few PED he is carrying directly, or gamble big and take 100k PED in your ATH from many others losing this 100k PED?

Thats what we all try to do in EU, take money from other players, one or the other way.
That is how the game is designed.

Sure there is different ways to do that:
Straight forward - lootable PvP
Gamble for ATH - get what others lost
Accept 90% return, but get MU for your good loots to make profit from those paying the MU
Simple trade, buy low sell for more.

NO matter how you turn it, the moment you manage to break even and start making profit, you take money from other players.
You can´t win from MA, you can only win from other players.

So where is any of this ethical better than the other thing?

Its a competition, win or lose easy as that.
 

Naomi

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You do exactly do that every time you hit a high HoF that makes you profit vs TT input!
good for everyone else then, that I've been loosing in tt for 12 years :d

posting in this thread seems useless, always getting pinned on off-topic stuff. I'm out
 

Miles

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Stanley Miles Stardust
There is nothing wrong with logging out on an MS and logging in again. Plenty of legitimate reasons to do it, or it would be a simple thing to fix. Using logout to avoid the risk intended for space transport is the exploit, and coordinated communications outside of EU to facilitate use of the exploit demonstrates a deliberate manipulation of game mechanics.

A pirate scum using proximity-detection or speed bug, etc., etc., is also doing deliberate manipulation of game mechanics - which also should be fixed. Instead of whining about how deliberately logging out to avoid risk not is not an exploit - it seems widely accepted as being ok for now - the good guys should go hassle the shit out them pirate scum in-game, where it belongs. Take the high road, no?


Peace, Miles
 
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